34 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

 I never understood this part of the story. So Hawke goes into the Deep Roads and makes a bunch on money and buys back his/her mothers old house.  How the hell dose the give Hawke the influance to not be arrested by the Templars?  Hawke has no political. Onections of any kind.  It is just such a huge plot hole for me.  There is no way the Templars would ignore Hawke just cuz he has lots of money.

[Giltspur]

In Act I, Petrice wants to use Hawke as a fall guy.  So he's off limits until he can be that fall guy for her.  In Act II, Hawke is the only human the Arishok he respects.  That means the Viscount needs Hawke.  And so because of the Viscount's need of Hawke, Hawke is off limits.  So it's not Hawke's money that matters.  It's the political importance the Arishok gave him that matters.

The game doesn't make that explicit, but it's what I tell myself.  (But I do think I'm justified in interpreting the game that way.)

[Sylvanpyxie]

A number of specific circumstances that made Hawke a "requirement" for a number of political reasons. A lot of coincidences all mashed up together.

It also helped that Hawke has, by some standards, reasonably powerful friends in Kirkwall - Smugglers/Mercs, Varric and his connections, Aveline in the Guard. Not to mention that Hawke also worked stuff out for important people. Got manipulated by important people and gained the respect of important people.

You gotta remember Hawke has done a lot of work for important people, even as early as Act1, He/She assists Cullen and the Viscount with various problems.

So it's pretty much just a large dose of coincidence, with a dash of ability and reputation.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 27 août 2012 - 03:30 .

[bloodmage13]

I think Hawke was safe in Act one because he kept a really low profile. I think he was safe in Act two because he was a local legend because of his trip to the deep roads and knew the Viscount personally. He also was needed to deal with the Quanari. In Act three Hawke was untouchable because he saved he city during the Quanari attack. Also in my play trough, I dueled the Arishok and won. Thus Hawke was a popular hero unlike most Magee who are feared

[Ilkec]

i never really taught about petrice but now that i think about it it really does make sense altough she wasnt really high up in the chantry in Act I so i dont think she could protect him, maybe hide him and also he does save the viscounts son so there might be something there too

[JasonPogo]

Ok a few things. Act 2 starts what two or three years after Act 1. Hawke was not needed for the whole Qunari thing untill the start of the Act. How was Hawke safe all that time. Also Hawke was not really close to the Vicount and the man was useless. You think he could have stoped Meridith if she wanted to go after Hawke.

[Giltspur]

JasonPogo wrote...

Ok a few things. Act 2 starts what two or three years after Act 1. Hawke was not needed for the whole Qunari thing untill the start of the Act. How was Hawke safe all that time. Also Hawke was not really close to the Vicount and the man was useless. You think he could have stoped Meridith if she wanted to go after Hawke.

If she'd wanted to, I don't think the Viscount could have stopped her.  But I don't think going after Hawke was in Meredith's best interest, and as a result she didn't.  The Arishok was a threat to Meredith; the whole escalation of mages and templars was delayed by the Qunari presence.  So if the Arishok is willing to talk to Hawke and no one else, it behooves Meredith to leave Hawke alone while that process plays out.  And we see evidence that Merediths willing to let a mage slide if he's valuable to her because in Act III she tells a mage Hawke that she knows he's a mage and hasn't acted on it.

[Realmzmaster]

Hawke was useful to Meredith and the templars outside of the Circle. Hawke helped Cullen by routing out the blood mages and their puppets. Hawke and Cullen actually form a friendship of sorts over time. So Cullen could simply suggest to the Knight-Commander that the templars keep an eye on Hawke but make use of Hawke. He also helps the viscount with his son which further proves Hawke's usefulness to the city. The viscount could also recommend watching Hawke but make use of Hawke. Hawke further cements his usefulness in Act 2 because the Arishok asks for him by name in a request to the viscount. The Arishok feels that Hawke has some semblance of honor. The viscount can use Hawke to keep the peace even Meredith would not want war with the Qunari if it could be avoided.

Meredith knows what Hawke is. She even mentions so in Act 2. The name of Hawke she saids has come up in my reports many times too many times. She says she will overlook the use of magic this time. That is only because of the bigger threat.

By the end of Act 3 every noble knows that Hawke is a mage, but he is the mage that saved their lives.

In Act 3 Meredith uses that knowledge to threaten Hawke into hunting the On the Loose mages if Hawke refuses. She reminds Hawke that Hawke is free only because she allows it.

Now the part where the story has problem in when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. Mage Hawke should have been arrested right then when displaying magic. But again Hawke is helping the captain keeping him from being killed. The captain in gratitude overlooks the use of magic.

The smugglers and mercenaries do not care because mages are useful in their line of work.

[schalafi]

What I don't understand is Cullen's inability to recognize Hawke is a mage (in my game). His comment that "mages are not like people, not like you and me" has always confused me. Does he really not see that my Hawke is a mage as she stands in front of him in a mage robe and holding a staff? Is he just ignoring it, or is he really that stupid?

[Realmzmaster]

schalafi wrote...

What I don't understand is Cullen's inability to recognize Hawke is a mage (in my game). His comment that "mages are not like people, not like you and me" has always confused me. Does he really not see that my Hawke is a mage as she stands in front of him in a mage robe and holding a staff? Is he just ignoring it, or is he really that stupid?

The dialogue is meant for the warrior or rogue Hawke. They did not change it for mage Hawke. Not the first time it has happened in Bioware games. QA should have caught it.

[schalafi]

Realmzmaster wrote...

schalafi wrote...

What I don't understand is Cullen's inability to recognize Hawke is a mage (in my game). His comment that "mages are not like people, not like you and me" has always confused me. Does he really not see that my Hawke is a mage as she stands in front of him in a mage robe and holding a staff? Is he just ignoring it, or is he really that stupid?

The dialogue is meant for the warrior or rogue Hawke. They did not change it for mage Hawke. Not the first time it has happened in Bioware games. QA should have caught it.

 That figures, they also keeps a male voice when a female Hawke steps in a trap.

[thats1evildude]

Because having a lot of money allows you to say "Screw the rules."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 août 2012 - 08:26 .

[Anvos]

Best answer I can give you is plot armor, as honestly if they figure out Bethany (who is far more subtle than Hawke and potentially has her big brother/sister looking out for them) is a mage there is really no reason they don't figure out mage Hawke is a mage before he/she is too well set up to arrest.

Really this is part of why I say the whole slow attrition of Hawke's family regardless of the choices you made was a bad choice.  If Hawke doesn't get noticed I don't get why Bethany (who is also your only other healer beyond anders) shouldn't have.

Modifié par Anvos, 27 août 2012 - 11:54 .

[Arthur Cousland]

As a warrior/rogue Hawke, act 1 is all about protecting Bethany and gaining money/status so they can resist the templars. Mage Hawke never has to fear the templars (instead has to listen to jealous Carver whine), and I would have liked to have seen that side.

[Patchwork]

Hawke might not know who to bribe but Varric would. There's a cut scene in Act 2 showing Varric paying off gangs to keep them a way from Anders, party dialogue which suggests he's doing the same for Merrill. It's not much of a stretch for me to assume the same is true for Hawke but the cost is higher and it Hawke's money being used.

IMO Bethany turned herself in.

[Realmzmaster]

After Hawke and Bethany are rejected by Bertrand she says We need money and status. Something to hid behind or we will not be able to stop the next person who tries to turn us in.
I can only surmise that someone had tried to turn them in and they were able to pay them off or eliminate them. Once they meet Varric I can only assume Varric uses his considerable influence to keep them safe. The same way the smugglers or mercenaries do with mages in their employ.

After the Deep Roads Expedition Mage Hawke has both status and money.

[wsandista]

Because people in Kirkwall are morons.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

Giltspur wrote...
If she'd wanted to, I don't think the Viscount could have stopped her.  But I don't think going after Hawke was in Meredith's best interest, and as a result she didn't.  The Arishok was a threat to Meredith; the whole escalation of mages and templars was delayed by the Qunari presence.  So if the Arishok is willing to talk to Hawke and no one else, it behooves Meredith to leave Hawke alone while that process plays out.  And we see evidence that Merediths willing to let a mage slide if he's valuable to her because in Act III she tells a mage Hawke that she knows he's a mage and hasn't acted on it.

I love how you're basically doing the writer's job for them, and I'm sure they love it too. There was no subtle clues to read deeper into regarding why mage Hawke was never arrested. It was a plot-hole; rushed games tend to have a lot of those.

[Zanallen]

There is dialogue about how Varric bribes people to protect Merrill. I would imagine that he would do the same for a mage Hawke.

[Cultist]

Aliens

[Anvos]

Ser Bard wrote...

Hawke might not know who to bribe but Varric would. There's a cut scene in Act 2 showing Varric paying off gangs to keep them a way from Anders, party dialogue which suggests he's doing the same for Merrill. It's not much of a stretch for me to assume the same is true for Hawke but the cost is higher and it Hawke's money being used.

IMO Bethany turned herself in.

To be fair I think its the gangs that would be in trouble if they attacked Anders and not him.  Justice is just plain scary when he/it is mad and carrying out "justice".

Also part of me doubts Bethany would turn herself in, the scene when Hawke returns seems to suggest that Bethany didn't know the templars were comming for her.  Not to mention I doubt that is something she would do without first seeing if brother/sister succeded or talking it over with somebody considering I think she gets what it would mean to her mother.

Modifié par Anvos, 28 août 2012 - 01:30 .

[Arthur Cousland]

Bethany doesn't turn herself in; the templars came to arrest her at Gamlen's house, and I'm sure she felt like resisting would have made things worse for everyone. I doubt she summoned the templars to come get her after she spent her entire life hiding from them.

If Varric was bribing people to protect Hawke, some mention of it would have helped, even if it was just a line of party banter that wasn't intended for Hawke to hear.

[jbrand2002uk]

I think its mostly down to Hawke's reputation causing fear among the Templars because while Templars do occasionally go hunting mages not raised in the Circle, they mostly hunt mages who have escaped the Circle and most circle mages are not very proficient at hand to hand and weapon combat.

Hawke on the other hand was trained by his father and codex's enteries seem to infer that Malcom was not only a powerful mage but also exceptionally proficient with weapons and hand to hand combat, which is demonstrated in the Destiny Extended trailer which means that even if the Templars use their abilities to block Hawke's magic he's still equally as deadly with his bladed staff or any other weapon he/she has a hand on.

This pretty much nullifies the only advantage a Templar would have making "just another man in a suit" as Alastair put it in DAO

[ray.mitch7410]

I see a lot of of people making justifications, assumptions, and rationalizations for the sake of the game. It shows it's a decent game, one people want to like and will try to defend, but it also shows me it has a weak story.

This is kind of an important issue the family needs to deal with. It's something that should have been addressed directly, either as a small quest or at the very least a cutscene. Hopefully they won't repeat this mistake in DA3.

[Renmiri1]

It is addressed... And it is the main quest of Act 1

Bethany plainly says that she will be arrested by templars if they don't get money and/or status, right after Bartrand refuses their pleas to join his expedition. Carver probably does it too, can't remember.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 28 août 2012 - 11:29 .