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#251
HBSWong

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Bwnci wrote...

It's impossible to brand anyone right or wrong here. I feel you bog yourself down with all this emphasis on military strategy. This is so not a realistic war simulator, its focus on the make-believe is designed to draw you away from reality and offer a whole unique experience. Yes there is a cover-based combat system to register some familiarity, not to make the whole experience completely alien. But that is a mere introduction to the game.

Ignoring of course the obviously ignorant critisms, I think most "commando" players would argue that campers miss the game in some form or another.

Still your absolutely right; I can't tell you, what's fun for you. Different strokes, but I say embrace them all and mix it up.


Frankly speaking, when I attempt to play in pub games with randoms to farm for credits, fun is the last thing on my mind.
The sole aim of farming runs is to farm credits, to say otherwise is to deceive yourself and others. 
What matters most is the successful completion of objectives to get the maximum credits due for effort made. 
Well, if i am playing with friends on the other hand, we can play most exciting games and more aggressively.
Speed runs are also more efficient with a good tem.

Modifié par HBSWong, 01 septembre 2012 - 03:45 .


#252
Bwnci

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Well... Wow, that's an eye opener. See now I'll never play a game for anything over than fun, and frankly I never thought I'd ever have to make that point. I would be very surprised if most people weren't like me in that respect, so I can hope you'll understand why so many are upset.

If it isn't fun for you, it really isn't for "us". Having fun with a game is the most important aspect, so by actively not doing that your spoiling the game.

You get credits as long as you win, and you should enjoy doing it.

Modifié par Bwnci, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:03 .


#253
HBSWong

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Fun, is a very subjective thing. Winning is fun for me and for some that's the only definition of fun.
For me in particular, I am a completionist, fun is only when I have maxed my manifest, anything else is secondary and not my idea of fun.
But that's just me in general, I dun force other to adopt my mindset, nor do I come to the forum to complain about others not endorsing my idealogy.
This is my point.

Modifié par HBSWong, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:11 .


#254
Bwnci

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Ah yes, see that is what I imagined when I mentioned different strokes before. I assumed most campers drew fun from the victory at the end. You just really threw me off when you said "fun is the last thing on my mind" for when you play in public games.

While you make a point of not forcing anyone to adopt your mindset however, you do also admit that playing more aggressive is more exciting. By not engaging at all in public games, you do indirectly force people to adopt a different mindset.

Modifié par Bwnci, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:29 .


#255
HBSWong

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Playing with randoms in pubs can be a very frustrating experience.
I am sure all of us can agree on that.

The only reason that I play with randoms is because I want to farm for more credits.
If you have that goal in mind, the rest can be of less relevance, including deliberating whether the experience was fun or not.

it's just a 20-30 mins game (or even shorter, if you are unsuccessful), so why not just get your credits and move on.

Like I said, pushing 'fun' into the faces of others who have other goals/objectives in the game will only make the game even more unpleasant for everyone else.

If you want to question me why continue to play in pubs if I ain't having fun, I'll like to response with why force others to play how you want them to play just so that YOU can have fun?

So if you have choose to play in a pub, you just have to live with it.
Or you can always go solo or form your own team of friends as I mentioned.

#256
Bwnci

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I would only question why you wouldn't want to have fun in a game.

If ensuring a strong victory is fun for you, fine. We can do that, but we can ramp up the action too.

Modifié par Bwnci, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .


#257
Chaoswind

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I think the difference is that commandos have no problem falling back and holding position IF the situation requires it, while campers will never leave their counter to support a commando.

If all 4 players are alive there is no reason to hide behind cover 100% of the time, even in platinum, now if there is only 2 people left, then you are required to be smart, grab cover and use tactical retreats to avoid death.

#258
HBSWong

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Bwnci wrote...

I would only question why you wouldn't want to have fun in a game.

If ensuring a strong victory is fun for you, fine. We can do that, but we can ramp up the action too.

I prefer a sure-fire way to earn my credits, I am a min-maxer myself from the time I was playing WOW.
If there was a 0.1% chance of an easier victory, I'll take it anytime.
And based on the randomness skill-level when of playing in pub game, you'll never be able to convince me otherwise.

But I'll like to say this:

    1. Effective camping isn't just staying at 1 spot forever, it means that if you are moving arond, always look for cover. No use standing out in the open to eat rockets/shots in the face.

      There are times when you have to move from your cover spot, like in games where the grenade has landed right next to your camping counter, or when the banshee has suddenly teleported right behind you etc.

      Hacking objectives is the only time when you should quickly just get to the hacking point and bunker down no matter where you are camping. Similiarly for escort objective as well. All other objectives can be safely done in cover.

     2. You should do what you need to do based on your class. There are classes which do well to stay root to 1 spot most of the time, given example is a demolisher to his pylon.

I have always found it weird that whenever it's a 4 points interact objectives, everybody seems to likes to rush out into their doom when there's a shadow or duratino-inf class which can already do this with ease.

Point being whenever I am playing a shadow, I'll appreciate if the 2-3 of the remain team-mates can draw out most of the offensive firepower from the objective spot so I can solo in and sleath complete the objectives.

I have always find it counter-intuitive to have everyone rush to the same point so that the spawns will follow you to the said point and this will only makes taking thhe objective even more difficult.

      3. Although it's always true that it's the player, not the classes which makes the gaming run successful, there is a optimal class setup for any farming runs:

         1. A Salarian Engineer (main pros are energy drain and decoy)
         2. A Shadow/Duration specced Inflirator (for interating with 4 point objectives)
         3. A demolisher (Arc grenade spams as an effective CC)
         4. Any other class which deals damage well.

      I have found that given any farming game, the presence and the effectiveness of these 3 classes will more or less ensure objective completion in platinum.

I have also more than once 3-manned platinum with the said 3 classes with friends+randoms, so I am thinking this would be a fairly effective combo.

But even for farming gaming games, 60% of the time, I'll find ppl who are either:

       1. John Rambo wannabe (includes Kroguards, the really bad ones)
       2. People who have no idea of the cover system or thinks their face needs more rockets. There always people who doesn't likes to take cover at the 2 defensible position and wants to stand in front of a prime with the guns blazing and mopping the floor every wave.
       3. People who likes to camp outside or whatever position far from the others. If you want to camp, camp effectively. I can't stress how many times I feel that even for farming games there needs to be a minimum entry requirement, esp in platinum games. There are still people who have totally no idea of how to farm joining into FBWGP games and just dying after the start of every wave. 

So to those pros who definition of fun is walking out in the open to get themselves killed, please do not join a faming game and expect the rest to follow you; if you dun even know how to farm, please don't join farming lobbies in the first place, thank you.

Modifié par HBSWong, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:05 .


#259
HBSWong

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Chaoswind wrote...


I think the difference is that commandos have no problem falling back and holding position IF the situation requires it, while campers will never leave their counter to support a commando.

If all 4 players are alive there is no reason to hide behind cover 100% of the time, even in platinum, now if there is only 2 people left, then you are required to be smart, grab cover and use tactical retreats to avoid death.


I really beg to differ on your opinion, I have seem more than my fair share of commandos who just stand up and goes down in less than 1 minute every wave.

Just because you can run and gun around doesn't mean the rest of the randoms in pub games can and should try to emulate your actions, you are teaching them the wrong things. :pinched:

Modifié par HBSWong, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:20 .


#260
Imsuperman2

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You sound like that one guy that gets grabbed every other wave.

#261
HBSWong

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Imsuperman2 wrote...

You sound like that one guy that gets grabbed every other wave.


Sorry but I failed to get your point.

#262
Star fury

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steverw1975 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

If it's firebase white use spawn exploit.
Make the enemies spawn behind them.


Very good advice actually. I should try next time when I get fbw instead of quitting.


Or, you could try not being a little (to keep it clean) punk, and actually be a decent teammate. God forbid. No, you'd much rather try to sabotage the match and make it harder for others to succeed if they don't choose to do things your way. Maybe if you stopped being such a tool, you could make some friends and be able to put together all the private matches you wanted. Then, you wouldn't have to care what others do in PUGs.

I'm a happy person, because I have s sense of humour and can understand jokes. That was a joke. THAT WAS A JOKE. I know it's BSN, so smart people with sense of humour is a tiny minority.

While you're, internet tough guy with Shepard's avatar keep stalking me here too. Again petty name-calling, insults, personal attacks, overall agression. I recommend you to go to anger management courses or even psychoanalytic. It will be good for you and your family. Unreasonable agression, stalking of people, name-calling is disturbing sign. Oh, and hypocrisy too.

And absolute absense of sense of humour is your biggest crime.

Modifié par Star fury, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:00 .


#263
Star fury

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HBSWong wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Problem is that campers slow down the game by a lot...

Playing commando with 2 teams of 2 players or the whole team moving around as a unit, is actually safer than camping and the game will be 2 times as fast.


Pity that bad players don't understand this. Proactive gameplay is faster and more fun, while camping just unnecessarily porlongs match and is boring.

The bottom line, don't play a co-op game if you cannot stand others playing different from how you play.

Don't stop others from playing the game the way they want it.
If I wanted to do fast 10 mins speed runs in gold, I'll play with friends or others who knows how to effective play and manage speed runs.
If I want to farm safe credits fast with randoms, I stand by the camping approach, nothing that anyone else say is going to influence me otherwise.
Likewise if you dun want to play camping, go play solo or find some friends to play with.
Stop whining in the forums about campers because that's as good as singing to the wall; no one will listens to you no matter what you say.


If all you want to remember is "I farmed fbwgg/p", it's fine. There will be only farming lobbies on gold+. Enjoy it.

#264
spaceling

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So last night I was playing a pug, like I normally do. I am hardly surprised at anything these days, but I ended up in a game with some campers. I figured "no big deal. I'll just leave the lobby after the match.". Obviously, I don't camp.

It *usually* doesn't bother me when I end up with campers. This time though, I was bothered because these guys were elitist jerks that were acting like they just discovered that the world was round and the rest of us were primitive fools. They were saying things like "If you stay in this back room, they all come to you and never around the back door." and "I can't believe that people haven't discovered this yet". At that point they started bad mouthing a team member and myself. The whole game they were just talking smack about our names, load out, and accusing us of things like kill stealing or not reviving (when I actually was). They died MANY times and were carried by us until the end of the match.

So what is my point? Partly to vent, but also to say that for me, I play this game for fun and respect many play styles, but when you are a dick, well then you are just a dick and you should not be playing mass effect multiplayer because next time, I will not revive you and leave the game when you are dead. So there!

:)

Modifié par spaceling, 01 septembre 2012 - 02:44 .


#265
CapnManx

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Chaoswind wrote...


I think the difference is that commandos have no problem falling back and holding position IF the situation requires it, while campers will never leave their counter to support a commando.

If all 4 players are alive there is no reason to hide behind cover 100% of the time, even in platinum, now if there is only 2 people left, then you are required to be smart, grab cover and use tactical retreats to avoid death.


I imagine that's true of some (I'm thinking of Firebase White Geth farmers here); but in my experience, most campers aren't quite that determined to stay put.

When I'm camping, it's usually just because I want to stay where it's hard for things to get behind me; but that doesn't mean I won't venture out if I'm needed for something.  I get annoyed with people camping at the other end of the map when there's an escort objective to do, just like anyone else would.  I'll also go pick up a fallen team mate, if nobody else seems to be in any hurry to do it.  I'm hardly unusual in that respect.

Besides, commandos are just as guilty in in creating these situations; never staying where they can be supported.  There only are so many good camping spots on each level after all.  Each of us wants to look skilled in front of our peers though; so who would stay where snipers can steal all their kills?  Why do commandos never do their running and gunning near the camping spots so they can support their team mates?  Why is it that in almost every Dagger game I play, somebody is going to stand way out in front of the control room and practically assure that nothing will spawn there?

You see, both sides can be equally awkward and unhelpful when they want to be; but I like to think that those players are the minority.  Most of the people I've played with (be they camper or commando) tried to work together, at least to some extent; even in PUGs.

#266
Chaoswind

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Happens more often that it should

I was in a farming match with 2 newbs and a pro camper (couldn't find another match), he told everyone to follow him to the back room, something I refused to do and then he starts talking crap about how I was a dick towards the team because I wasn't supporting them with my Batarian Soldier and how i should quit the match and let someone else join because he wasn't going to revive me at all.

Long history short I got the gold revive medal (campers tend to be **** in objective waves) while I only got dropped 2 times of with I used medigel on both, after the match was over I quit the group as they weren't worth my time, i hope the 2 newbs learn that camping isn't the best strategy (maybe the laziest and safes until a "bad" objective wave comes) and that they should learn to commando their way to victory as soon as possible.

EDIT:

Another problems with campers is that once their sure win strategy fails, they become useless, if we get the 4 devises, they stay and camp and hope someone else will get them (when there is NO infiltrator on the team), if there is a pizza they stay and camp and hope someone else will deliver, if is an escort they stay and camp...

The only 2 objectives campers don't seem to mind to do are the Hack Zones and the Kill objectives (and they let the objectives come to them)

Modifié par Chaoswind, 01 septembre 2012 - 03:17 .


#267
Chaoswind

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CapnManx wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...


I think the difference is that commandos have no problem falling back and holding position IF the situation requires it, while campers will never leave their counter to support a commando.

If all 4 players are alive there is no reason to hide behind cover 100% of the time, even in platinum, now if there is only 2 people left, then you are required to be smart, grab cover and use tactical retreats to avoid death.


I imagine that's true of some (I'm thinking of Firebase White Geth farmers here); but in my experience, most campers aren't quite that determined to stay put.

When I'm camping, it's usually just because I want to stay where it's hard for things to get behind me; but that doesn't mean I won't venture out if I'm needed for something.  I get annoyed with people camping at the other end of the map when there's an escort objective to do, just like anyone else would.  I'll also go pick up a fallen team mate, if nobody else seems to be in any hurry to do it.  I'm hardly unusual in that respect.

Besides, commandos are just as guilty in in creating these situations; never staying where they can be supported.  There only are so many good camping spots on each level after all.  Each of us wants to look skilled in front of our peers though; so who would stay where snipers can steal all their kills?  Why do commandos never do their running and gunning near the camping spots so they can support their team mates?  Why is it that in almost every Dagger game I play, somebody is going to stand way out in front of the control room and practically assure that nothing will spawn there?

You see, both sides can be equally awkward and unhelpful when they want to be; but I like to think that those players are the minority.  Most of the people I've played with (be they camper or commando) tried to work together, at least to some extent; even in PUGs.


If the commandos are too far then let them medigel themselves don't run towards them like a blind person.

When experienced commandos venture far away of the team, they usually do it at their own risk and will gel right away to avoid getting their team mates in a bad possition, however a reason to not gel right away is because a phantom/cluster of enemies is/are dancing in our heads so we have to wait for them to move a little bit.

But you are right there are bad teammates period, both campers and action heros can be terrible players, but action heros are not commandos, thinking they are awesome and dying as a result is different from playing smart with your run&gun play.

#268
Archonsg

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The military build fortifications for a reason.

#269
Chaoswind

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Archonsg wrote...

The military build fortifications for a reason.


The military doesn't have super powers

#270
Bwnci

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Yeah imagine if they did, they would be able to engage their enemies in all these incredible ways. You know like, erm... Mass Effect!

@HBSWong: By bringing all those camping strategies to light do you mean to suggest there is no strategy in commando play? That would signify your lack of success or fustration with the style. Commando teams are open to a number of strategies, given them their biggest strength, which is flexibility.

I'm not about to produce my own list as it's as varied as the number of playable characters. Should you encounter capeable commandos in the future I would stress that you here them out, enabling you to alternate how you play the game. Where you move on the map is always important, as is combining powers to bomb and debuff the enemies. Splitting the team to control enemy spawn points; spread their numbers, or distract them away from the objectives. There's arguably no better escort than that of one made of three Furys and a Human Vanguard. True team synergy makes the best commandos.

Modifié par Bwnci, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:25 .


#271
Draining Dragon

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There is a cover system for a reason.

This is not call of duty.

#272
Bwnci

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There are multiple systems in place.

This is Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Bwnci, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:31 .


#273
Zero132132

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I can only beat Platinum by camping like a ****. Part of why I don't really play it now. Maybe if I wanted credits before a new DLC or something, but I'm mostly okay with the state of my manifest, and I'm content to let URs and gear trickle in slowly as a result of fun.

Losing is much less fun, though. Had a wave 10 wipe last night. 1-2-3-4 objective. Got 2 down, then I tried reviving the three down people... should have just finished out the objectives alone. Sad day.

#274
PSUHammer

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This whole thread is summed up by "Waaaaah, you don't play the game the way I like so you must suck!"

"camping," or whatever you want to call it, is just a strategy. And there are in game classes that cater to it.

The fact is that there are people that suck at the game and people that don't, regardless of play style.

#275
Archonsg

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Chaoswind wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

The military build fortifications for a reason.


The military doesn't have super powers


They didn't have to fight Stuff with magnet hands as well. :lol:

Seriously though, I thought that the whole point of taking cover is to well, prevent yourself from being shot. And one of the oldest tactics is to funnel your opponents into a killing zone. 

Some people camp, some run amok on the battlefield. I do both. Doesn't mean one method is better then the other. For some fun is actively trying to to get killed as opposed to someone actively in "seek and destroy" mode. 

If one lobby isn't to your taste, just look for another.