363 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaoswind]

The cover system is there, but you can move while in cover, you can change positions and roll from a wall to the next, staying in one single place shooting isn't the way Mass effect 3 is supposed to be played... Mass Effect 2? yeah maybe, but on ME3 you are encouraged to move around to kill stuff, cover is there to be used, but you aren't limited to it.

sorry if I make no sense I am tired

[Biotic_Warlock]

Is this Camp(er) enough for you?

Edit: In all seriousness idk how people can camp FBW repeatedly

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 01 septembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[HBSWong]

Bwnci wrote...

Yeah imagine if they did, they would be able to engage their enemies in all these incredible ways. You know like, erm... Mass Effect!

@HBSWong: By bringing all those camping strategies to light do you mean to suggest there is no strategy in commando play? That would signify your lack of success or fustration with the style. Commando teams are open to a number of strategies, given them their biggest strength, which is flexibility.

I'm not about to produce my own list as it's as varied as the number of playable characters. Should you encounter capeable commandos in the future I would stress that you here them out, enabling you to alternate how you play the game. Where you move on the map is always important, as is combining powers to bomb and debuff the enemies. Splitting the team to control enemy spawn points; spread their numbers, or distract them away from the objectives. There's arguably no better escort than that of one made of three Furys and a Human Vanguard. True team synergy makes the best commandos.

Noticed here that I never said that running about and controling spawn points isn't a valid strategy here; in fact I also am very interested to do speed runnings and have done a couple with the Arelex members to learn how to control spawn and hold positions.

But the point we are addressing here is all these posts are attacking people who camps because they think campers are bad players or lousy players who can't rush out and kill like a commando.

The point to note here is that camping IS a valid strategy and on top of that an effective one.

I have said time and again that doing speed runs is a more effective way to farm credits and rambo style works if you are capable of such playstyle. 

But the main issue we are referring to here is we are playing with randoms, I repeat RANDOMS in a pub game setup.

Tell that to any of the speed runners whether doing random pub games with speed running will work well, most likely this will not be possible.

One of the first thing about doing speed run I've learn is to having good and clear communications; telling each other where is the next spawn is very important especially when controlling the spawn points and managing individual missle usage. Not know where to run to will also mess up the spawn locations.

The point you need to know is playing in a pub games normally means:

1. Most other players in the lobby may not be familiar or even knows the speed run position/strategies.
2. Most players in pub dun use mic/dun communicate.
3. Most players do not care about listening to others.
4. You do not have an accurate gauge of the skill level of others in the lobby

I highly doubt you can do effective speed runs with all these factors added together.

So that only leaves run and gun approaches to runnning around mindless without any formal strategies and knowledge of others in the team and doing your own commando style game play and that more often than not will results in a mission failure.

Believe me when I say that camping and farming is a more universally accepted and known strategy and although not even Tom, Dick, Harry can know how to camp effectively, they can at least know how to stay in cover and minimize death.

Please do note the context of the issue we are trying to address here and who we are addressing this issue to for validity of the points to be brought up.

Modifié par HBSWong, 02 septembre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Drummernate]

I farm all day, but I never camp.

I'm the guy that the level 280 yells at and says "Get back here or you will get us all killed!" and then I proceed to kill the entire wave without them seeing an enemy.

On Glacier I do stay in the little square room because it is easy... and still faster than Firebase White.

My teammates are almost never good enough to cover me so I can actually venture outside of the control room thing because... well they just are not good enough.

[HBSWong]

Chaoswind wrote...

The cover system is there, but you can move while in cover, you can change positions and roll from a wall to the next, staying in one single place shooting isn't the way Mass effect 3 is supposed to be played... Mass Effect 2? yeah maybe, but on ME3 you are encouraged to move around to kill stuff, cover is there to be used, but you aren't limited to it.

sorry if I make no sense I am tired

You are associating campers to staying in 1 place no matter what happens, most of the time this isn't true.

An effective (noticed I said effective) camper will most of the time be moving from the cover when there's a need to move. It's not like if you stay there the mobs won't come to you; they always will unless when you run into a spawn glitch where all the mobs gets stuck at the spawn point. (I run into these situation quite a few times)

And there's is nothing wrong with using what terrain advantage you have to the maximum, as noted in many millitary engagement, forces holding superior positions have no reason to move and it's often the opposing forces who'll have to devise a strategy to force them out. 

Grenades and smoke grenades are a very good eample of tools given to opposing teams to flash people who are holding vital positions out from their cover in most FPS games.

Therefore there is absolutely no reason why you'll want to come out and get downed just because you think having time out in the open is fun especially when the mobs are all over you.

[HBSWong]

Drummernate wrote...

I farm all day, but I never camp.

I'm the guy that the level 280 yells at and says "Get back here or you will get us all killed!" and then I proceed to kill the entire wave without them seeing an enemy.

On Glacier I do stay in the little square room because it is easy... and still faster than Firebase White.

My teammates are almost never good enough to cover me so I can actually venture outside of the control room thing because... well they just are not good enough.

So you are a 1 man Rambo? Then maybe you can just solo the game most of the time anyway.
Are we talking about platinum btw? 

[Drummernate]

HBSWong wrote...

So you are a 1 man Rambo? Then maybe you can just solo the game most of the time anyway.
Are we talking about platinum btw? 

Yes.

I prefer being a 2 man team of Geth Infiltrators and then 2 living decoys...

But nobody on my friends list plays with me... and if they actually do... it is my low level friends who aren't very good.

[HBSWong]

Drummernate wrote...

HBSWong wrote...

So you are a 1 man Rambo? Then maybe you can just solo the game most of the time anyway.
Are we talking about platinum btw? 

Yes.

I prefer being a 2 man team of Geth Infiltrators and then 2 living decoys...

But nobody on my friends list plays with me... and if they actually do... it is my low level friends who aren't very good.

Then I think it doesn't matters to you how the rest of your team play; whether they camp or not since you can carry them through platinum anyway right?

[samftrmdfhl]

Chaoswind wrote...

The cover system is there, but you can move while in cover, you can change positions and roll from a wall to the next, staying in one single place shooting isn't the way Mass effect 3 is supposed to be played... Mass Effect 2? yeah maybe, but on ME3 you are encouraged to move around to kill stuff, cover is there to be used, but you aren't limited to it.

sorry if I make no sense I am tired

I always thought that by campers people mean those who stay in a small location to shoot enemy from a far. However, by your definition, campers are those who stay in the original spot never move? I really never see anyone play like that before, I myself like to play camp in London and Rio (I did help with objectives and revive before you guys take your shirt off). Is that even possible staying in the same spot without ever moving?

[GGW KillerTiger]

Campers are the noob campers tent. A tent is th semi-noob campers tent. Now shelter made out of leaves, grass and sticks is a pro campers tent.

[Bwnci]

Clearly the real problem here is that we're not debating the same issue. Those that defend camping appear to be players that use the cover system to its full effect, while those of us against it are frustrated with players who don't move from a single point on the map.

I personally would not define a person that moves from cover to cover as a "camper". Overly defensive maybe, but the key characteristic that seperates that player from what I call a camper, is the fact they're moving. I imagine the OP, and those like me who would argue his case, share the same principle as I've seen this point stressed repeatedly now.

Unfortunetly there exists a disproportionate amount of players that will simply rush to one point of the map and remain there for the next half an hour or so. This does spoil the game for people like me. I do hear players communicate these camping tactics to one another, if only they were more confident and open to learning other techniques too, there would be much greater variation in public games (which lets face it, many of us are lumped with).

I think we can all agree that these camping tactics serve as a great introduction to Gold as they do exercise some solid fundamentals. But there is plenty of room to evolve from there, if the maps themselves aren't a clear enough indicator. Variety is the spice of life and those that argue against campers are trying to introduce some.

@HBSWong: Notice here that I never said anything about speed running.

Modifié par Bwnci, 02 septembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[Chaoswind]

samftrmdfhl wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

The cover system is there, but you can move while in cover, you can change positions and roll from a wall to the next, staying in one single place shooting isn't the way Mass effect 3 is supposed to be played... Mass Effect 2? yeah maybe, but on ME3 you are encouraged to move around to kill stuff, cover is there to be used, but you aren't limited to it.

sorry if I make no sense I am tired

I always thought that by campers people mean those who stay in a small location to shoot enemy from a far. However, by your definition, campers are those who stay in the original spot never move? I really never see anyone play like that before, I myself like to play camp in London and Rio (I did help with objectives and revive before you guys take your shirt off). Is that even possible staying in the same spot without ever moving?

is possible, specially with lame demolishers

The worse is when they try to leave their little hole just to die all the time... camping teaches you nothing, you won't gain any skill by camping and if all you do is camp you will be a liability in objective waves (specially escort).

I have no problem with people holding a strong position as long as they can get their ass out of there and play well when the match demands it, be it that he is going to get overrun or an objective wave is upon us.

its annoying to rescue a camper that refused to relocate, specially because 4 of every 5 times he will blame you because you weren't there to "help" him.

[Bleachrude]

I disagree with the hate for campers...

Take Rio for example,,,,it makes WAY more sense to camp out at the end of the map with the transformers/shipping containers since the spawn points means you can easily hold it as the mobs spawn at the same time, but their movement rates are different

Especially against geth, you can easily kill off the pyros hunters before the rocket troopers are in position to get good shots at you...

Playing rambo on Rio is just asking to get flanked....

[HBSWong]

If you aren't referring to speed run then I really see no point in doing run and gun approach at all, especially with randoms in pub games.
By encouraging this sort of behaviour, not only it makes what is already not a high percentage of platinum pub games success even lower, with lots more risks and no added value in return.
I'll like to say that even though this is a game, there are a lot of people who still take winning pretty seriously.
I for one, would not like to spend my time playing a platinum game with no credits earned at the end of the game.
I only have limited hours of gaming per week and I have many more other games to play with, if the ROI on the time I have invested in this session isn't worth the effort, I'll be very pissed off indeed.
Why increase your chances of failure when you only have a limited amount of time to do what you want to achieve?
Does doing that just because you think it's fun worth it? Not for me at least.
Sorry buy I'll not endorse your suggestions as I do not see any potential added benefits to what you recommended versus what is known as a safer approach.

Modifié par HBSWong, 02 septembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[Majin_David]

Just play the game and stop attacking play styles. I run or camp depending on what the team is doing. Both are fun for me. Even though I see a lot of glacier games it's still my fave map but I have no problem if host wants to do another map. Just play how you want. If you are going rambo kill them all and your team is hiding don't be mad at them if you wipe. Or if you want to camp and they are running and you die but they are too far away, again don't be mad. Adapt to what your team does. But don't act like you're superior to anyone because you don't want to camp.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Had some funny campers (obviously all they do is farm FBWGG).

"Get here. Now."

Dude be glad hosts can't  kick, cos you'd be getting kicked for being rude and for camping.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 02 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Ledgend1221]

It's not camping if you're shcared.

[BouncyFrag]

Bleachrude wrote...

I disagree with the hate for campers...

Take Rio for example,,,,it makes WAY more sense to camp out at the end of the map with the transformers/shipping containers since the spawn points means you can easily hold it as the mobs spawn at the same time, but their movement rates are different

Especially against geth, you can easily kill off the pyros hunters before the rocket troopers are in position to get good shots at you...

Playing rambo on Rio is just asking to get flanked....

I love Rio but its almost infuriating how people insist of trying to hold the middle of that map. Whats even worse is that if we end up getting pushed to either end of the map resulting in the squad actually doing well with better cover/positioning, everyone then blindly runs back to the middle section after that wave is over.

[Drummernate]

Camping with 80% of the characters is just a waste of time...

Especially Infiltrators, Soldiers, and Vanguards.

Damage one enemy every 15 seconds... or damage 5 of them every 3 seconds.

[HBSWong]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Had some funny campers (obviously all they do is farm FBWGG).

"Get here. Now."

Dude be glad hosts can't  kick, cos you'd be getting kicked for being rude and for camping.

If you meet people who are bad in using the camping strategy, blame the person or the execution, not the actual strategy. 
Camping(holding strategic positions and maintaining a superior vantage point and forcing the enemy to come through a pre-determine path and avoiding enemy LOS) remains an vary effective strategy when executed correctly.

But then again, if you are talking about gold games, almost anyone can run W/G/G farming games now.
In fact, I level most of my kits in gold games and I don't also don't kick any low level N7s from G/G/W matches.

If you are talking about platinum games, it's a much different story then, as you need at least a certain level of weapon loadout/classs setup to be more or less effective.

And most of the time the match fails because there are people who do not even have the basic idea of the camping strategy.

Most people on the BSN forum has been bashing the camping approach when it has proven to be the easiest to pick up and the most logical plan formulated given the map and enemy settings. 

And many a times it has been proven to be much effective then just running above and expecting the unexpected.
And by camping close together, it is also much easier to revive fallen teammates when the need requires.

So in light of this, I still believe camping is the most effective strategy when you are playing with mostly people who you have no prior interaction with and have no ideal of their skills level or understanding of the game.

[HBSWong]

Drummernate wrote...

Camping with 80% of the characters is just a waste of time...

Especially Infiltrators, Soldiers, and Vanguards.

Damage one enemy every 15 seconds... or damage 5 of them every 3 seconds.

damage 5 enemies every 3 seconds? Care to explain how?
And by that tone, 1 against 5 fight means you have 5 times more chances to be attacked by the enemy, or you can even be attacked by 5 enemies together all at once.

If you keep getting downed, isn't that an even bigger waste of time? 

[HBSWong]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I disagree with the hate for campers...

Take Rio for example,,,,it makes WAY more sense to camp out at the end of the map with the transformers/shipping containers since the spawn points means you can easily hold it as the mobs spawn at the same time, but their movement rates are different

Especially against geth, you can easily kill off the pyros hunters before the rocket troopers are in position to get good shots at you...

Playing rambo on Rio is just asking to get flanked....

I love Rio but its almost infuriating how people insist of trying to hold the middle of that map. Whats even worse is that if we end up getting pushed to either end of the map resulting in the squad actually doing well with better cover/positioning, everyone then blindly runs back to the middle section after that wave is over.

This means that these people aren't making effective use of the camping strategy.
You have to know how to camp and where to camp and camp smartly.

I also failed to understand why some campers like to go lone ranger and camp solo outside of the room in FBW when the rest of the team are all behind the 2 counters inside the room.

And when they go down, which is often the case. there is no one nearby who can revive the lone ranger and likewise for the single man at the other counter.

This is just a case of bad players executing the camping strategy ineffectively and has nothing to do with the camping approach or strategy. 

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[Drummernate]

HBSWong wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Camping with 80% of the characters is just a waste of time...

Especially Infiltrators, Soldiers, and Vanguards.

Damage one enemy every 15 seconds... or damage 5 of them every 3 seconds.

damage 5 enemies every 3 seconds? Care to explain how?
And by that tone, 1 against 5 fight means you have 5 times more chances to be attacked by the enemy, or you can even be attacked by 5 enemies together all at once.

If you keep getting downed, isn't that an even bigger waste of time? 

Proxy Mines...

Staggers enemies and sets up and detonates tech bursts, plus does decent damage in a large AoE.

1 Vs 5 is hardly fair... for the Reapers.

Modifié par Drummernate, 02 septembre 2012 - 07:03 .

[xtorma]

Chaoswind wrote...


I think the difference is that commandos have no problem falling back and holding position IF the situation requires it, while campers will never leave their counter to support a commando.

If all 4 players are alive there is no reason to hide behind cover 100% of the time, even in platinum, now if there is only 2 people left, then you are required to be smart, grab cover and use tactical retreats to avoid death.

If it's smart to do it with two people, wouldn't it still be smart to do it with 3 , or 4?

[FreshFitted]

How the hell do you camp in MP? The faster you kill **** the faster the game ends. feel like I'm wasting my time if I'm not running around **** stomping everything I see..