363 réponses à ce sujet

[Zorinho20_CRO]

nicethugbert wrote...

jfruelas521 wrote...

Your team needs to be well coordinated if you want to run around on platinum.  Most pugs are not well coordinated.  Hence the camping.  

THIS!

Camping is easily explained over a mic to people who don't have mics and is easy to demonstrate, especially the first time they run out and get killed but the team can't get to them.

I did run & gun tactic with friends on Glacier/Platinum,but one of them was incredibly good Novaguard,who draw aggro and we play as a team.But to be honest,I like more slower paced gameplay.
As someone mentioned,camping is legit strategy-why give enemy more unnecessary advantage?

Modifié par zorinho20, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:23 .

[thegamefreek78648]

Campers....

Why are there so many styles to choose from?

How will I know if it really will fit on the back of my truck?

It has to be light too, I gotta use this truck to hall my butthurt trailer thats full of dead horses.

[kilgh]

TomSurman1 wrote...

It's a legitimate strategy!

Agreed.

God help you in a real war zone!

[Shakespeare212]

Chaoswind wrote...

Wrong.

The most effective and safest strategy when dealing with a superior force are guerrilla strikes, small strike teams raids and black ops teams.

Holding up a defensible position only works if you have sustancial fire power, or reinforcements will arrive after a certain period of time. 

Good thing you're not responsible for any actual lives...  You're talking about long-term conflicts that take place over long periods of time...not single battles where a 4 person unit is trapped in a small space with an enemy force like this game is structured.  Try reading a book about actual military tactics instead of watching war movies.

[artificial-ignorance]

Remember Garrus Vakarian? Sometimes known as Archangel? He camped in a building in Omega in ME2 and killed hordes of Omega gang members. Are you insulting Garrus's tactics? FOR SHAME!

[ParatrooperSean]

Chaoswind wrote...
Wrong.

The most effective and safest strategy when dealing with a superior force are guerrilla strikes, small strike teams raids and black ops teams.

Holding up a defensible position only works if you have sustancial fire power, or reinforcements will arrive after a certain period of time. 

As per the US Army field manual for Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad tactics you only want to *attack* a defensive position if you have superior firepower, specifically a 3 to 1 ratio. Of course, numbers wise the enemy in the game outnumber a 4 man "squad", which is actually a Team size element a lot more than 3 to 1. A true infantry squad has 9.

Then we can get into powers and abilities and reason that the firepower and capabilities possessed my the ME "squad" is much greater than the mere numbers of troops, but I digress. The point is it is much easier to defend than attack.

You are correct on a macro level about guirilla tactics. But the N7 characters can't plant an IED and disappear into the population. It's a tiny, enclosed environment where the last man standing wins.

Modifié par ParatrooperSean, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[Chaoswind]

Garrus is my bro, but he kind of sucks (blame the AI)

Wrong analogy:

Its a 4 person strike team on a mission, the mission isn't to survive, is to complete the objectives AND then extract.

If this was plain Horde mode survive this hell, then yes camping would be the best strategy, but this is also about objectives and how to complete them, if the AI was changed JUST a little bit (17 lines of code) campers would fail 90% of the time.

The AI in this game isn't stellar and as such can be easily exploited by campers, however all it would take to **** campers in the ass are some slight changes on behavior and priorities and campers would wipe almost 100% of the time, that is how flexible the whole camping thing is, as flexible as a rock.

[Shakespeare212]

You pretty much just keep rationalizing the same inaccurate point...no one is suggesting camping through objective rounds - just the obvious strategy for the vast majority of the game - which IS a survival model. The debate was over pages ago. You're grasping at straws now.

[HBSWong]

He is just in general pissed off with others who like to use the camping strategy while they play (even though I dun understand how this really affects him. Host your own games remember?)
I guess arguing rationally in the BSN forums and using logic to explain your stance is a rarity?

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[Zanzibaarus]

10bears wrote...

TomSurman1 wrote...

It's a legitimate strategy!

Quote for truth.

[Chaoswind]

HBSWong wrote...

He is just in general pissed off with others who like to use the camping strategy while the play (even though I dun understand how this really affects him. Host your own games remember?)
I guess arguing rationally in the BSN forums and using logic to explain your stance is a rarity?

Apples and rotten oranges

I complain about the players that only camp.

Escort mission?

Camp

Drone mission?

Camp

4 Devices?

Camp

Getting overrun?

Camp harder

Hack Zone?

Camp

Too far away of Hack Zone?

Camp out of the Hack zone

Kill objective?

Camp

Kill objective is a Nemesis?

Camp; they will roll into view eventually

[HBSWong]

Chaoswind wrote...

HBSWong wrote...

He is just in general pissed off with others who like to use the camping strategy while the play (even though I dun understand how this really affects him. Host your own games remember?)
I guess arguing rationally in the BSN forums and using logic to explain your stance is a rarity?

Apples and rotten oranges

I complain about the players that only camp.

Escort mission?

Camp

Drone mission?

Camp

4 Devices?

Camp

Getting overrun?

Camp harder

Hack Zone?

Camp

Too far away of Hack Zone?

Camp out of the Hack zone

Kill objective?

Camp

Kill objective is a Nemesis?

Camp; they will roll into view eventually

How often do you run into such failed campers?
Because quite frankly they are a disgrace to be delporing an effective strategy in a totally wrong way.
I have said time and again, that an effective camper will move to do objective like escort and hacking and minimize his time in LOS of open fire, that's is the basis of utilling cover and to stay in 1 spot forever without fail is not a good use of the strategy.

That being said, drawing enemy fire away from the 4 point objective or pizza delivery objective via camping is not only valid and most of the time fairly effective. 4 people running headlong onto the pizza or point objective is only going to bring the horde to the point, making it harder to complete

So the gist is, blame the player, not the strategy. 

[SiIencE]

I kinda camp also depending on opponents and difficulty but on gold i mostly camp when i'm engineer/sniper/adept and i mostly stay alive throughout the match, but when someone who doesn't camp dies close to me... i try to revive him/her and die.. So camp and stay alive or run around like a headless chicken and die so others can come and res you?

And yes i do move/do objectives whenever they are there, it's just that some people always seem to die if it's either bronze, silver or gold. I mean come on sure i'm also more 'active' when playing bronze but i never took my N7-Paladin to Gold though. Fun on bronze because you can mostly 1 shot melee everything.

[Bwnci]

Aw really? We're referencing real life military stategies and using life or death situations as analogies for a debate in a science fiction, role playing game? As soon as the first mass altering bullet flies out of an alien gun, real life anything goes out the window. And I hardly believe dragging someones playable character away from their favourite digitally rendered wall is going to be as traumatic as watching them drown or fall out of the sky. Stop feeding each other this bull.

If your going to directly quote me at least pay attention to what I'm saying. I have never directly insulted anyone who likes to camp. I have merely expressed my own opinion on that particular brand of gameplay, all the while aware, that it is my opinion. I make a conscious effort everytime to communicate this, why is it that it never registers? Probably because it is all too easy to hide behind that arguement.

What I have always been saying is that there are far too many people unwilling to do anything other than camp. Creating our own lobbies will not change this number, unless of course you mean that we only get to play through direct contact with friends. How is it fair that we are alienated this way?

Countless arguements have been made to promote an alternative style of play, with some "campers" even agreeing that it is more "exciting". No it is not as easy, that being the point in some circumstances, but anything worth having rarely is. However through basic practise it is as achievable as anything else. If anyone is interested I'll happily take on new contacts and share some pointers, as I do with all my friends. The truth of the matter though is that all the information I can share already exists on the internet, if you found your way here, chances are you know how to use it. If the vast majority would simply stop digging their heels we'd have a more open game.

The "commando" players are forced to camp all the time, and they do. What would be greatly appreciated is if some more players would exercise the same courtesy to us.

Modifié par Bwnci, 03 septembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Nkaj]

artificial-ignorance wrote...

Remember Garrus Vakarian? Sometimes known as Archangel? He camped in a building in Omega in ME2 and killed hordes of Omega gang members. Are you insulting Garrus's tactics? FOR SHAME!

Well said, camping is hardly cowardly if the master of all awesomness (and gun calibrating) does it.

[Shakespeare212]

Bwnci wrote...

Countless arguements have been made to promote an alternative style of play, with some "campers" even agreeing that it is more "exciting". No it is not as easy, that being the point in some circumstances, but anything worth having rarely is. However through basic practise it is as achievable as anything else. If anyone is interested I'll happily take on new contacts and share some pointers, as I do with all my friends. The truth of the matter though is that all the information I can share already exists on the internet, if you found your way here, chances are you know how to use it. If the vast majority would simply stop digging their heels we'd have a more open game.

The "commando" players are forced to camp all the time, and they do. What would be greatly appreciated is if some more players would exercise the same courtesy to us.

Like I said before - simply ask your teammates if it's ok to leave the line and coordinate before you run off guns blazing.

[Bwnci]

Shakespeare212 wrote...
Like I said before - simply ask your teammates if it's ok to leave the line and coordinate before you run off guns blazing.

Well that's what I'm doing here essentially. Just trying to get a more people aboard ocasionally. Unfortunetly I've mostly met a wall harder than the best cover in the game.

[HBSWong]

Bwnci wrote...

Aw really? We're referencing real life military stategies and using life or death situations as analogies for a debate in a science fiction, role playing game? As soon as the first mass altering bullet flies out of an alien gun, real life anything goes out the window. And I hardly believe dragging someones playable character away from their favourite digitally rendered wall is going to be as traumatic as watching them drown or fall out of the sky. Stop feeding each other this bull.

 

Because basing one argument using logic and analogies is wrong? So we are only going to base our reasoning just on feeling alone? Your feelings of what's right or wrong? What's fun or not? 

Even in a scienc fiction game, there are rules of logic governing what can happen or not. Just because this is a science fiction game, so Sherpard should have just pull out a super death switch and wipe all reapers with the push of a button without a sweat? Because we are not gonna debate about whether this is even logical in the first place right? Get real. 
Once you throw logic out of the window, there's nothing more to talk about.

Bwnci wrote...
If your going to directly quote me at least pay attention to what I'm saying. I have never directly insulted anyone who likes to camp. I have merely expressed my own opinion on that particular brand of gameplay, all the while aware, that it is my opinion. I make a conscious effort everytime to communicate this, why is it that it never registers? Probably because it is all too easy to hide behind that arguement.

What I have always been saying is that there are far too many people unwilling to do anything other than camp. Creating our own lobbies will not change this number, unless of course you mean that we only get to play through direct contact with friends. How is it fair that we are alienated this way?

Countless arguements have been made to promote an alternative style of play, with some "campers" even agreeing that it is more "exciting". No it is not as easy, that being the point in some circumstances, but anything worth having rarely is. However through basic practise it is as achievable as anything else. If anyone is interested I'll happily take on new contacts and share some pointers, as I do with all my friends. The truth of the matter though is that all the information I can share already exists on the internet, if you found your way here, chances are you know how to use it. If the vast majority would simply stop digging their heels we'd have a more open game.

The "commando" players are forced to camp all the time, and they do. What would be greatly appreciated is if some more players would exercise the same courtesy to us.

So who are you oh so important that YOUR opinion has to matter and everyone else should not camp just because YOU are not having fun? Who are you to dictate how everyone else should play and enjoy their game your way? Care to enlighted me why we have to listen to you if this is just all your opinion?

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[HBSWong]

Double post 

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Bwnci]

The only logic that really applies in a videogame is wrapped in the mechanics and lore, and how on Earth do you keep reading "my way or the highway" in any of my posts? I'd like to enlighten you but you don't read anything properly.

Modifié par Bwnci, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:39 .

[HBSWong]

Okay then, please do enlighten me if all these are only your opinion, how does it matters to the rest of the people who active farms the game? If it doesn't matters then why still keep bringing it up in the first place?

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[Bwnci]

If I have stressed that you do not read anything properly, logic would dictate you have already missed the answer to that question.

[HBSWong]

The fact is by expressing your opinion here that people shouldn't be camping without giving valid reasons as to why not other than the fact that it's of your opinion.
That people shouldn't limit themselves by camping and that they have much more to learn and campers do not have an open mind at all also only based solely on your opinion alone give me the impression you are an elitist indeed.

Anyone else who only does camping is deem to have a close mind, unwilling to learn and is limiting their own enjoyment?

All these based on your own opinion and nothing else?
Well you have some opinion indeed. And since your opinion doesn't have any basis to back it up on, I guess there's nothing much to talk about other then it is just your perspective.

So in the end of the day, do you really think that after saying all these here will anyone be influenced by your to actually play more U/U/G|P games?

If you have an answer for this, I'll care to be enlighten.

Modifié par HBSWong, 03 septembre 2012 - 08:14 .

[funfryfrenzy]

Thats all i see here.^^

[Bwnci]

My reasoning is this; we are in discussion of a multiplayer game. It functions because there are multiple players. If anyone cares about the life of this game they may wish to consider not alienating so many.

Sure we can splinter off into our own little groups, establish solid teams of four that can beat anything the game throws at us. But then what? It's over then.

However a constant stream of varied players will always introduce something a little different.

Modifié par Bwnci, 03 septembre 2012 - 08:27 .