278 réponses à ce sujet

[rwaporter]

I like the crafting and smithing in DA:O, awakening and the Witcher 2, gathering rare resources and weapon plans to make interesting and powerful weapons, armours and runes was always cool.

I think visual customization would be cool, however some visual options should have at least a mild effect on function, such as an elven sabre should be faster and do less damage than a heavy barbarian broad sword, and metal colouring has already been established in the dragon age universe as influencing the stats. Mass Effect 3 had this to some extent and it was much more engaging than one or the other.

Upgrading (or leveling up) old weapons and creating new weapons with unique stats from scratch is a fun game mechanic, as would naming your new weapons (as in Oblivion), but would need to be balanced, by limiting rare resources, making weapon plans rare, and limiting weapon upgrades to only a handfull of times throughout the game, such as when the weapon tiers change.

Making crafting a skill again would be a good way to go, better if it could also be done by various companions of player's choice as in DA:O, or levelling up the crafting skill could be done by upgrading the forge or alchemy set, the forge could be upgraded by finding or buying better hammers or anvils that add different effects to the items, such as an elven hammer adds speed and defence, but a dwarven hammer adds armour and damage, and have different tiers of hammer, including "legendary" hammers such as Caridin or Branka's that give extra effects but are hard to find, or require small detours.

[DHT]

DinoSteve wrote...

The things I would like to see are:

• The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
• The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
• Crafting of Armour and Weapons.
• Collecting of Parts for the crafting of special Armour and Weapons or the Collecting of special Armour and Weapons.
• Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
• Limits on what you can craft based on skill
• The ability to buy crafting materials

 

<-- 50%

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual) <- 50% !!
 

[septembervirgin]

 I think what has worked best is as follows:

1. The designs for items should themselves be crafted.  Here is where the random element comes in.  One might guess at a potential improvement that becomes a dead end.  Which designs work and don't work might change from game to game.  I've seen blueprint design with random effect for items in non-RPGs that involve crafting and in a single RPG.  Something similar might be found in the non-computer RPG Gamma World.

2. Designs might have hidden elements that can be revealed through careful inspection (or an NPC) but largely should function as they seem to function.  The careful inspection might be from a generalized skill (like trap discovery).  Some of these hidden elements might be flaws, some might be rarely triggered conditional bonuses.  There was an RPG in design over at MIT in the 90s that had something akin to this; features of a trap or items or creatures could be gradually revealed but would not all appear to the unskilled or mildly skilled.  Something like this was to appear in Ultima Online (with seeing creature abilities, I do believe).

3. Some designs should be non-random though if successfully made. (Such as a key to a door, although a "key to many doors" might have random features, blessings and curses alike.)  Non-random craft items are usual to most RPG that have crafting.

4. In implementing a design a crafted item might fall short from expected quality due to poor craftsmanship or be of exceptional mettle.  This should only be minor improvements at best though.  Some RPG do not have great possibility for change in a single design.  This could be incorporated along with other options.

5. Resources should be obtained due to license or gift or servants, or due to large mass purchase.  Harvesting has been almost universally boring in every game I've played.  Star Ocean 3 does this well and I also liked DA2.

6. Improving existing designs should be possible as should uniting two diverse designs should they be for similar items.

[craigdolphin]

First up, thanks fr askng a more substantive question this time around Bioware.

As for the topic, i liked the sockets and runes system...and the effect on stats is more important to me than the visual impact. That said, i have nothing against changing the visuals too.

But personally i think crafting is a bit ....dull in some ways. Where does player skill enter into it?

Off the top of my head, i think it could be intersting to make a mini game of placing a rune into a socket. If you get the timing/placement exactly right the resulting buff is better than a less well timed attempt. And perhaps a really bad attempt would result in a nerfing instead of a buff. Make runes relatively uncommon and have them be removable....but use a similar minigame type system to see f the attempt to remove the rune destroys it or not. I hate finding a great rune but not be able to use it because i don't want to waste it on an inferior item of armor or weapon midway throu the game.

Perhaps there are reasons not to do something like ths but it would be a way to make crafting more integral to gameplay and give players more choice in how to strategize their use of resources. Lock picking in skyrim adds a fun bit of challenge is one example of the type of thing i'm thnking about here.

[Aurien]

I like crafting in games if it isn't a complicated process that takes me hours just to figure out and makes worthwhile items. I do very much enjoy:  unique appearances or the ability to add something to make a distinct appearance and/or change a specific stat or two into a different stat I want. (as an example Everquest 2 reforging does a good job at this, somewhat)

I like being able to find unique and pretty things to make and wear, and I like to be able to imbue the stats that are useful to me onto them so I'm more likely to hold onto that piece a while. Everyone has a different play style so why can't the stats be unique to the player? I dislike being thrown into a "mold" so to speak, I play how I like to play.

I really enjoyed Mass Effect 1's customizing with the different armor upgrades and weapon upgrades I could add onto my gear to do different things, and I could change them whenever I wanted depending on the situation. The Runecrafting in Dragon Age: Awakenings was fun as well. I also liked that in Dragon Age 2, when you found the component you could craft whatever you wanted from that component without having to find more. I never liked having to hunt for craftables all the time, so DA2 made crafting that way more enjoyable for me. For visual, Mass Effect 3 went in the right direction for me by being able to pick your colors and sub colors, patterns etc, and had a plethora of colors to choose from.

What I absolutely hate is having to scour around all over the place to find craftables. Then having to figure out how much I needed and hope I had enough and if I didn't go back out to find more. Also filling my bags with crafting components. I'm more of an adventuring type, with crafting on the side. If crafting is enjoyable and unnecessarily complicated then I'll do that as well. I enjoyed playing Skyrim for adventuring, but the crafting was just too complicated for me to really enjoy so I ended up playing classes that didn't need it. lol

Modifié par Aurien, 28 août 2012 - 05:19 .

[Darth Krytie]

I like being able to be able to alter stats and visual appearance depending on what items I use on a piece of armour or weapon. Say, if you add dragon bone, the item will get a bonus in defence and look a certain way.

I loved crafting in KOTOR2, simple as it was.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 28 août 2012 - 05:54 .

[Cultist]

Jessica Merizan wrote...
This time, we want to ask you about crafting! What are some of the best things you've seen in crafting systems before?

Some examples: 
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
Limits on what you can craft based on class
The ability to buy crafting materials
No crafting materials
etc etc etc

Ah, like from my old threads about crafting
Dragon Age: Origins crafting system was plagued by 99 elfroots with 99 vials and constant annoying gathering of ingredients, tha actually were never worth it when it come to crafting. Dragon Age 2 destroyed rafting completely by dumbing it down to sinmply getting another shop.
The problems, IMO^
- Player should not constantly search foe n+1 ingredients, then m+1 vials etc.
- Crafted items should be valuable and well worth consumed ingredients.
- Crafting should be easy - you should not run half map for chest then run back to crafting table.
- Crafting should not be a skill for companions as that'll lead to DA:O and DA:A problem where you made a Mule companion with all the crafting skills and used him\\her only to get ingredients and craft runes\\etc.
- You get a lot of potions just lying everywhere, and crafted ones are too expensive to be effective.
Possible solutions:
Mule NPC
I suppose the best
solution is to follow Diablo III experience and implement NPC at your camp who can brew potions and potions for you. You can upgrade him\\her via various quests, bring him new recipes etc.
This will solve the problem of a "mule" party member and can combine both class and skill limitation.

99 elfroots
The problem of 99 elfroots. I don't know how to solve it but can brainstorm some ideas, such as
- Reduce their weight and implement separate inventory slot, like a "Ingridient bag" for them.
- Reduce number of ingridients on the maps and make them abdurant - i.e. get N elfroots from one bush. this will eliminate annoying "corner-searching".
- Keep $-for-ingridients system, but make it...reasonable. Example: Have a mage NPC at your camp\\town square\\another easy accessable location where you would not run half a map or make 3 transitions to
get there. The mage can use "quick growth magic" if you bring him\\her seeds. Basically, like DA2 but not as dumb. You can "upgrade" NPC and get more ingridients for the same price.

Potion limit
Tricky part. I see there's a way to make potions matter by implementing a potion limit, i.e. no more than 5 healing potions. This will make them more valuable and actualize the skill. For example, higher levels of skill will add to
potion limit. but this should be approached very carefully as this may be balance-breaking.

Make Alchemy(or potion making) skill matter.
Make potions have: quicker cooldown, stronger effects, additional effects depending of skill level. Make this skill affect gameplay and quests, i.e. PC can recognize poison of some victim if his Alchemy skill is highenough. Or can heal someone, like with dwarven cure in DA:O.

Make potion effects significant
+3 poison damage is nice, but not worth it, when you have to waste 5 minutes to gather ingridients and brew it. Make potion effects important. +20% damage, +30% resistance, +armor, immunity to knockback\\stun and other. they will
be expensive, but make potions worth their price.

Armor crafting
We already got nice system - Baldur's Gate2 and to a lesser marging, Awakening - where you can craft Unique weapons and armour. Crafting "common iron plate mail" is pointless.

Stats
Crafting affecting stats depends completely from combat and leveling system - if we get DA2-like scaling system then your stats just does not matter as all battles will be the same and +X stst wil not affect the outcome of the battle.

Modifié par Cultist, 28 août 2012 - 06:12 .

[lea_hazel]

The ability to locate resources in DA2 was a vast improvement over DAO. I'd like to be able to put some thought/work into which resources I need, without having to set aside inventory space in the interests of hoarding crafting materials. I do miss the ability to craft certain items on the spot, which provides additional flexibility. Basic uncraftable items should always be available to buy in unlimited quantities.

The ability to customize appearance isn't very important to me, although the ability to upgrade existing items is. Expanding on the rune slot system would provide something of both, as I could continue improving the equipment I like instead of replacing it all the time. Provided the upgrades don't alter the visuals, that is -- no shiny aura for buffs, or that sort of thing. It's distracting and people just end up modding to remove it.

[dracuella]

Zack_Nero wrote...

While the DA:O had more of a variety craft based on skill, I would like to see it based on class. Example, warriors can only craft weapons and armors. Rouges can only craft poisons and potions. Mages can only craft runes, enchantments, and staffs. class based just seems more diverse to me.

Since I assume we're getting back the ability to outfit our companions in DA3, I would rather it were not only Mages who can craft mage related items and so forth. I would rather it were based on skill as in DAO and the greater your skill, the mightier the item. Crafting shouldn't be available to everybody per default as it takes away from the uniqueness of it. Everyone should be -able- to craft but only if they've invested in the skill. 

Personally, I don't feel it necessary to alter the visuals of items. I don't pay much attention to the looks of the average item anyway; to me it is solely specs, upgrading and transmuting. An example I think could be great is a forge where you alter your weapons depending on which other ingredients you add. Imaginge adding your spirit damage staff, a healing potion, a manapotion and a feather from a phoenix. You specify that the new weapon's 'Damage type' is the phoenix feather and that 'Weapon Bonus' is the health and mana potion. This will give  you a staff that does firedamage, +5 health restoration and +5 mana restoration (or similar).

Addendum: if we are to have a tool for altering the looks of items, I would really prefer it to be something along the Character Creator. This would make it easy and intuitive to style your items and while the feature is available to you, you don't have to spend hours on end tweaking.

That being said, I also like the idea that you have to engage an NPC to get some particular items (Eg. Wade the smith and the Dragon(bone, skin, scale) Armour. I loved going to visit those guys

[Wolfspawn]

I would like it if I could customize the appearance, but I would have never thought of that. I also think I would like something like Skyrim, where you have to find the materials and a place to create the item, but it would be a different place for each type of item (Smithy for armor/weapons, Sandal for enchantment? enchantment!, etc.) I would also want to have a finite number of materials that you could get once and use only once, not like Dragon Age 2, where you get an elfroot and no matter how many times you use it, you always have it. And you have to pay gold each time because you're "ordering" it not crafting it. I think that, with a crafting system where you can customize appearance (not in any game I know of), stats, and name for armor and weapons, stats and name for potions and poisons, and you could improve armor and weapons (along with jewelry) by magical or nonmagical means (provided you have the right materials, of course), it would be one of the best crafting systems I've ever seen. Oh, and I almost forgot. In a Fallout 3, before you craft something, you have to find the recipe for said item. I personally think that would be interesting, if that could be implemented. If you don't have a recipe, one should be able to experiment for potions. However, armor, weapons, and jewelry should not have recipes that you'd have to find, but you should rather have those recipes in the very beginning, provided you have the appropriate skill. Also, you should be able to craft bombs. Let there be bombs!

[Hitman94]

1. The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
2. The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
3. The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
4. Limits on what you can craft based on skill
5. The ability to buy crafting materials
6. Collecting lots of things to use in crafting

I put them in order with 1. being my favorite and 6. my least favorite. Others which are not on the list I don't like at all.

[Deihjan]

The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats) - Could potentially be gamebreaking. Don't want.
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual) - If you mean that we could replicate an item look, so we'd have a set that looks in a specific way and keeps the stats of the original item, then yes. Otherwise it doesn't really matter to me, because I chuck out gear once it's not useful anymore.
The ability to upgrade an item (runes) - I never used runes much in Dragon Age origins except for weapon runes, and they are potentially game breaking and don't really add anything particularly noteworthy for me except for higher difficulty bosses going down easier
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting - I didn't use the crafting at all in Dragon Age origins and I don't really care for having to hoarding gems, herbs or other stuff that take up bagslots unless I have to.
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc) - this works great for other games, so why not, if you absolutely must add a crafting skill.
Limits on what you can craft based on skill - it works for other games, so why not, but I still don't see why crafting must be in Dragon age.
Limits on what you can craft based on class - same as above.
The ability to buy crafting materials - would be much easier and simple for us, instead of hoarding items from questing because you never know what you'll need and where it drops from, or if it only drops in limited quantities.
No crafting materials - If you have to add crafting, then there should be materials. It has to make sense if you are going through the trouble of even adding it in the first place. Only mages should be able to magic materials on the spot, because of magic...

All in all, I'm not fond of crafting unless I absolutely have to. In WoW I like the Engineering skill and Alchemy the most, because they're useful, funny and add both visual and stat changes.
I find crafting gear to be pretty stupid, because you're getting rid of it at one point or other in exchange for better armour or weapons.
If some legendary item or unique robe model dropped and you could replicate it, but make it into a rogue chest piece instead, I'd definitely be interested, if the armour looked particularly cool.

[Deihjan]

dracuella wrote...


That being said, I also like the idea that you have to engage an NPC to get some particular items (Eg. Wade the smith and the Dragon(bone, skin, scale) Armour. I loved going to visit those guys

Oh yes, bring back Wade and other guys like him, or the lyrium-brain dwarf from orzammar who forgot what he was saying. Fun characters or characters with niches like that are always great to revisit without changing, because you've already established a relationship with them.
Especially if you keep the voice actors, because Wade and Herren were a great gimmick.

[Mr Chr15topher]

 I can't remember which game it was (I played it years ago) but you could change the pommel, grip, guard and blade of the sword visually and each different choice gave the weapon different properties.

[TrooperTethras]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

What are some of the best things you've seen in crafting systems before?

The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)

While crafting basic weapons and armor is enjoyable, having the option to mix around with its statistics makes the process all the better! Choosing the statistics of Vigilance during conversation in Awakening was a great example of this.   

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)

While this does sound like fun, I don't believe its entirely necessary, and could potentially take a great deal of time to implement. In an ideal world, yes... but merely having some unique models for crafted weapons would suffice.

The ability to upgrade an item (runes)

This has been a core attribute of Dragon Age since Origins, so I can't see any reason to discard it.

Collecting lots of things to use in crafting

Picking up objects around the land to use in your crafting is a very common part of fantasy RPGs, and can be especially fun to do. However part of the problem I had with this in Origins was how collecting these ingredients would end up taking a large amount of inventory space. Perhaps a seperate inventory slot could be created for crafting materials, or they could just act similar to plot items (eg. not taking up any space at all).  

Randomizing the process

Personally I am against this, all it does is make me reload my last save file until I finally get the statistics I want (and that isn't fun at all).

Limits on what you can craft based on skill

Yes, progression is a very important part of crafting, no less than any other attributes or skills.

Limits on what you can craft based on class

I'm thinking no on this one, if my mage is a skilled blacksmith I should be able to forge plate armor for the warriors in my party. Just because my character has no use for a particular type of crafting I shouldn't be made incapable of it.

The ability to buy crafting materials

Yes, if only to just create a sense of economy. By the end of DA2 I had hundreds of sovereigns and nothing to spend them on; these materials can help fill in the gap as well as provide to those herbalists and runecrafters who have no desire to go out harvesting veins of lyrium, ect.

No crafting materials

By this I can only guess you mean the DA2 system of finding ingredients out in the wilderness and buying the items associated with them at the crafting tables.
The system worked, and it ensured that we didn't have to carry the materials in our inventories, but I believe that the method of crafting should revert further back to Origins.

Thanks for reading, and good luck with development!

Modifié par TrooperOnasi, 28 août 2012 - 08:57 .

[Melca36]

I'm really enjoying the crafting in Guild Wars 2....

I especially like the *salvage kits* where  when we loot junk items, it can be salvaged into useful items for crafting.

Its something that should have been in DA:2....

When you get an item like torn trousers....you could salvage it into cloth or leather

Broken Armor could be salvaged into metal.

Crafting armor should be based on your class.  

As for gathering items used for crafting....in Guild Wars 2, everybody can mine ore, chop wood, and gather plants/herbs.

Its really fun but I have to admit its funny to see my necromancer using a mining tool.


If people don't want to craft but like salvaging. It would be nice to be able to sell or exchange items we salvage for gear that fits our class.   

[PinkShoes]

it would be cool if we could dye armor. I would make the wooorst looking armor

[Night Dreams]

Personally, I liked the DA2 system of crafting, as far as you only had to find a resource once, and then wouldn't have to try replenishing it. I found that there were a few key merchants you simply had to buy those resources from in DAO, because the stuff you found never turned out to be enough.
But *spoilers* you were penalised from being able to buy these if you made particular choices. Such as in the Dalish quest, that is, if you sided with the wolves, you no longer had access to a merchant with an unlimited supply of elfroot.
I liked it better when you required the specific skill for this crafting, however.
And I definitely think its appealing when you can tailor the way an item looks, even if that's when adding runes and the like.

[ladyofpayne]

I don't use crafting. I buy what I want.
I don't want to create armor and weapon, unless I will play smithmaster. Also the best weapon and armor is always buy or finded. 

Crafting skills is waste of skillpoint. We don't play in game simths or tailors. We play mages and warriors.
Potions craft still good idea. I hope in Da 3 it will be only one craft options.
DA 2 potions creating was simple and good- you pay money you get potions.

The traps was useless, poisons too.

Modifié par ladyofpayne, 28 août 2012 - 10:31 .

[andraip]

Runes are always neat, it gives you a way to customize any weapon or piece of armour (if it has a runeslot that is).
It would be great if more items had runeslots, in DA2 there weren't that much, and you couldn't remove runes too, with in my opinion you should be able to do, also finding items that already have runes atached to it would be nice.

For runes to be really great you would need a higher effect variaty, not just adding some crappy elemental damage or some extra protection. How about a weapon-rune that increases your damage against brittle targets? or that gives you a chance to inflict a bleeding wound? Or an armour-rune that decreases your threat a bit everytime you're attacked? or that enables you to see invisible targets in a certain radius around you.
I think runes should be more then just simple power-ups.

I would really like to be able to have a weapon or armour that you can upgrade through out the game so that it will be always about on par with other good weapons you could find at that stage, it alwys felt weird that all the heroes in the tales had awesome weapons/armour you could find, but you had none, besides Starfang (DLC), Vigilant (expansion) and The Key (DLC).
It would had been pure awesomeness if you had, e.g. a sword in DAO that The Warden could upgrade along the story and that you could have found in DA2, with the same stats, that has a codex entry with tells a bit of what The Warden had achieved with it (slaying archdemon, purging the Tower of the Magi from demons, etc.).

[ccg08]

GreaT QUESTION!!
All of those are awesome, but lets be serious, if we JUST pick one (such as the option to change the way something looks) then it seems like a very mediocre crafting system.

As for the mechanics I will compare DA:O, DA2 and Skyrim...

Smithing and alchemy:

DA:O
GOOD

1) Can craft potions and poisons in the field.
2) Requires skill investment to craft better items.
3) The crafting of Vigilance!! Allowing the player to forge and
customise their own legendary weapon incorporated into the game lore!!! I
LOVED questing for the item components for forging this weapon. A stroke of GENIUS from you guys!!!

BAD

1) Too much rubbish in my inventory in case I needed to craft stuff.
2) Finite resources which are ESSENTIAL for crafting certain generic items.
3) Other than a few items in DA:A, no smithing.

DA2
GOOD

1) I liked the fact that my inventory was not cluttered with rubbish.
2) Also, other than Ambrosia there were no finite amount of resources (e.g. frostrock in DA:O) which meant I could craft certain traps, poisons qnd potions as much as I wanted.

BAD
1) Feels a little lame to just 'order' your crafts.
2) You cannot make potions in the field. This should really be rectified...
3) No skill required for making advanced crafts.
4) No smithing.

SKYRIM
GOOD

1) Very extensive, allowing you to craft nearly every weapon in the game and your potions outclass all generic ones with a little investment!
2) Ability to improve weapons via sharpening without enchanting - useful for non magic builds.
3) Requires forge i.e. makes sense.

BAD

1) Crafting materials are not really that widely available unless you mine your own ore. WHAT SMITH MINES THEIR OWN ORE or HAS TO TRAVEL TO EACH HOLD FOR ENOUGH RESOURCES TO FORGE A SINGLE FULL SET OF STEEL ARMOR?!!


Enchanting:

DA:O
GOOD
1) Can remove enchantments and shift them around.
2) Not overpowered but still improves your weapon enough to justify the effort.
3) Requires an 'enchanter', makes sense! You should not be able to enchant in the field!

BAD
1) Not really very extensive...

DA2
As above

Skyrim
GOOD
1) Very extensive, liked the disenchant mechanic and the sheer number of enchantments!
2) Required an altar, makes sense.

BAD
1) Too easily exploitable, to the point where your own generic items with generic enchantments outclass named legendary items. THIS IS BAD!! Those named items often form part of the lore AND SHOULD NEVER BE OUTclassED BY RANDOM NAMELESS ITEMS WITH GENERIC ENCHANTMENTS. So far, the only game that I felt successfully allowed you to create and 'enchant' a powerful item, by incorporating it into the lore was Dragon Age: Awakening with Vigilance.

ADDITIONAL POINTS: what about some basic crafting mini games? Skyrim even has one for lockpicking, so why not for crafting? Feels more interactive as opposed to just clicking on an item name!

[MichaelStuart]

I prefer to have
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
No crafting materials

What I do not like, but can live with are these
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)

What I would hate are these two
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
Limits on what you can craft based on class

I prefer crafting to be simple as going to smith/crafter/alchemist etc, choosing what I want, than paying money for crafted item.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 28 août 2012 - 11:23 .

[WeezBard]

For me:
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
The ability to buy crafting materials

[R2s Muse]

To be honest, I hate crafting... So, the thing I'd like most about it is if it weren't absolutely necessary to play the game.

[Matobar]

I've never actually used the Crafting system from DA:O or its DLC, but I sometimes used DA2's to get potions. It was much more simplified, so I much prefer that method to DA:O's.