278 réponses à ce sujet

[geler7]

 I like a lot of things about crafting systems, but not a lot of games have made an impression on me on that level.
I like the weapon/armor/other crafting system in Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. Now what I like about it:
-The ability to tailor the way an item works(stats)
-Randomizing the process(when you are a master blacksmith you also get kind of a bonus(i think) because the object is mastercrafted)
-The ability to buy and find crafting materials and salvage them from things that you don't need

I also like the Diablo III one. because of REALLY randomizing the process.
and finding crafting materials and being able to salvage stuff that you don't need in order to make crafting materials(like Kingdoms of Amalur)
limits on what you can craft based on the skill of your artisan


In Dragon Age, I wish there was a way to craft weapons(not just enchant them). My wish was granted by the creator of The Winter Forge(I think you know about it, because it's one of the big mods here). 
In DAO and DAA I like the fact that you actually get to make the potions/poultices/poisons/runes yourself and that you need components for each and everyone of them. In DA II it was a disappointment for me to see that you can make as many as you want after you've found the reagents and have enough money. It was more challenging to find stuff all over the world. It felt more rewarding when you actually got to make something(not to mention that it was YOU who made it, you didn't just order from someone). So, yeah, that's one of the things I didn't like in DAII and I hope that for DA III you will think about it. 
EDIT: forgot to say that in Dragon Age(origins and awakening, obviously) I like: limits on what you can craft based on skill

Modifié par geler7, 28 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[Zerda]

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
The ability to buy crafting materials

[JackWall]

The most interesting crafting system, imho, is in the Lineage 2. Crafting in Dragon Age 2 was acceptable but it was not something without what you can not pass the game in "hard" level. Crafting in DAO and DAO:Awakening was simply awful.

[Pusechka]

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)

[kr3g]

Everything in the list is good, except "Randomizing the process".

[Fox2214]

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)

Definitely!

[SteveGarbage]

One thing that I so seriously want is a way to continuously upgrade an item so that it can always be useful. For example, Sir Wesley's Shield is useless after about 10 minutes of playing, but then Aveline reams you later for selling it or otherwise unequipping it. I want a way to make that item viable throughout the game if I so choose. The same goes for a variety of other things like Isabela's daggers. If it was special enough to garner a unique name, it should be special enough that I can keep it for more than a memento taking up space in my storage chest.

Skyrim somewhat does this through it's smithing process, where you can continually upgrade an item based on your smithing skill and materials. Sure, a fully upgraded ebony weapon will still be better than a fully upgrade steel sword, but you can put a lot of work into that steel item to make it nearly as statistically good as long as you play. Finding a mechanism to be able to add additional effects/stats via runes or some other system (kind of like selecting bonuses for Vigilance in Awakening) would be a nice touch too.

I like to have some control over the process, however, unlike say, Bianca, which just adds damage on level up. Leveling items are a lazy and immersion-breaking mechanism.

Other good stuff:
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)

Bad:
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
(Inventory/storage space is precious. Having too many items and/or recipes to try to keep and manage is a huge chore. I can play an MMO if I want to spend an hour combing through my crafting crap.)

Inexcusable stuff:
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guaranteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)
(Randomization is a terrible, terrible mechanism in games. If I devote the time and energy with the expectation of producing X, I want X to be useful to me when I'm done. Diablo III crafting is a perfect example of why this is terrible. I can be a warrior and pour tons of materials into crafting a new sword, only to get one with stats that are completely worthless to my character or any character who would every consider wielding that type of weapon.)

[Sir Loring]

I like it, if it is realistic. Like making some crazy stuff out of frogs or something, discusting, but very good for your mana ... and stuff like that. I would like to stay at the table like a mix between Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim, with animations

[kbhai]

The Witcher 2 did crafting pretty well... there were rare resources and loot from bosses than can be made into powerful armor, weapons or potions. More powerful stuff should be really hard to get while the less powerful can be more easily available although there should be some effort from the player to get those.

[K Le Blanc]

As long as you can't make game breaking items don't see a problem with being able to craft, since NWN 1&2 have the ability and play a game now where you can craft items, like it doing it since you can create items that fit into your play style.

[Ashman1986]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This time, we want to ask you about crafting! What are some of the best things you've seen in crafting systems before?

Some examples: 
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
Limits on what you can craft based on class
The ability to buy crafting materials
No crafting materials
etc etc etc

I generally find that I don't like crafting systems in games and that, even when I do like them, they're vastly under-utilized. I liked the poison and potion making systems well enough in DA:O, for example, but I never bothered to invest any time into either because I was able to complete the game (twice on insanity and plenty of half-point playthroughs on the same) without needing them. Sure, I downed plenty of potions and poulstices, and I used poison whenever the thought crossed my mind, but when I downed the Archdemon last night with my first rogue character,  I completely forgot about them.

The Witcher and Elder Scrolls Series stand out to me as offering accessible alchemy systems that actually yielded some use to me. I can remember trying to craft the perfect poison in Oblivion so that I could take down a troublesome NPC in one hit. The enchant systems in TES games also lends life and value to non-artifcat weapons and armor, and makes for a great end-game experience.

I also really loved the lightsabers of KOTOR, though I I had wished for a greater variety of crystals in the game with which to buff my weapons. A weapon crafting system is most fulfilling to me when it requires a great deal of optional questing or exploration in order to create the ultimate and most personal weapon. I don't necessarily need to change the way my weapon looks (though choosing the color of one's lightsaber in KOTOR was certainly fun), but I want to choose the way it behaves ingame.

The one aspect to weapons crafting that almost always gets under my skin is the fact that crafted weapons tend to outrank legendary items established within a given game's lore. This is where I felt Baldur's Gate 2 shined in that legendary items (i.e., the Equalizer, Crom Fayer) had to be assembled from parts gathered throughout the course of the campaign. Throne of Bhaal allowed you to enhance these items using various other rare items, and these final iterations of the artifacts you had grown to love were generally the most powerful in the game.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

Jessica Merizan wrote...
.............
Some examples: 
The ability to tailor the way an item works (stats)
The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
Randomizing the process (so you aren't guarenteed to always craft exactly the same thing; stats/visual variable etc)
Limits on what you can craft based on skill
Limits on what you can craft based on class
The ability to buy crafting materials
No crafting materials
etc etc etc

Big thing for me is the option to develop my characters in different ways. I also like my companions to be able to do different things: one for poisons, one for traps, one for herbal, one for runes . . . .
This also means I want to be able to purchase a lot of stuff if I want to build my character and companions a different way.

BRING BACK SKILL TREES
Limits based on skill or class: Skill yes, class no, race no.
You can give a headstart on a particular skill based on class and race, but there should be no limit on who can learn a skill. The limit should be in the control of the person playing the game. In fact, it always bugged me that anybody could learn the trapmaking skill, but only rogues could disarm them. Something like that, the disarm ability could have been based on either.
If I choose not to develop my herbal skills beyond a certain point it means I can't make certain potions. Maybe I can buy some of them, but not all. And I want to develop my companions in different ways. But I should be able to decide, and not just at the character creation, how far my character can go in a particular skill. Skill, to me, implies that any can learn it if they take the time and dedication.

Buying and collecting crafting materials: Yes and Yes
I think you should be able to purchase the basics at different places as well as some collect as you go. For special potions you should have to earn or find the ingredients and/or recipes. If you don't do the one quest in Awakening you don't get a particular lyrium recipe you need for one of Master Wade's specialty items. I like the idea of an ingredients bag which might have, say, 20 slots in its own right but only takes one slot in your backpack. This bag could be the result of a quest or purchase.
If you're not interested in crafting, you can stick with some basic potions. I've played Origins using nothing but health and mana potions, and usually no greater than Greater. I've also played where crafting different items was more key.
If you don't like crafting and are willing to spend the extra money you should be able to purchase a reasonable variety of potions and some runes.
Maybe some randomization: Varathorn always has elfroot available but the amounts can vary from 20 to 99 each visit so you have to decide whether to load up or not. Same with potions, Merchant A will always have lyrium potions available but number and strength will vary on each visit.

Runecrafting/weapons upgrade:
I liked runecrafting in Awakening. I could decide how far I wanted to take the ability. There should be consequences for not developing the skill to its highest level. DA2 was all find stuff in neverending streams and if you have the money create what you want, no skill required. Ultimately, didn't like it.
If you want more than expert or master level runes you have to learn runecrafting. Nor should you be able to purchase all expert or master level runes. It's all about the choices you make.
Runes should not be one time use only.
Weapons upgrade outside of runes, should be a skill you have to learn. Or something you have to pay for.

Visual customization:
Definitely yes, at least as far as color goes.
A mod that I downloaded after purchasing the PC version of the game is the Universal Dye Kit. For me it is an automatic for every playthrough. If I take a lot of time customizing my character's appearance I want to be able to have his/her clothes compliment them. I enjoy the additional aspect of being able to go online to create custom combinations and saving them rather than having the mechanics saved on my computer.
I also like to be able to change the colors if I put the armor on a companion.

Maybe yes, when creating armor/weapons. It might be fun to have a smithing skill or access to an armorer (if I have the money) to create items and determine material, type, straight v. curved blade, certain styles of armor, etc. But I honestly don't know how much I would spend on this, it would probably depend on the quantity and quality of found items.

Stats customization: yes, when creating based on materials used. Or upgrading

Randomization: partly
I think some things when found or created could have a random element. There are a lot of bows and blades that are found, and if it's not something special it doesn't matter to me if in one playthrough the dagger I find in chest A has flame damage capability on it and in another one it does more straight damage or is just very low level. If I'm on a particular quest to get Starfang (or it's one of the rewards I can choose) I want to know what I'm getting.
I think crafting potions could be a mix. For instance, elfroot will always give me health, the amount of elfroot (plus distillation or concentration agents) determine the strength. However, maybe there's a plant called moonblossom which can add stealth, invisibility, or threat reduction and you don't know which it will do when you create the potion. Maybe you can't use it until you find information about it, or you have to use it a few times to see what it does. At some point you know when you use it you will get one of those features.
Perhaps some ingredients could be added to existing potions: Moonblossom plus greater health increases health at the same it adds stealth for x seconds.
Using these more exotic elements would require a certain skill level.

DA2 could have used a greater variety of potions. Flame resistance, spirit resistance, etc. It relied too much on the runes.

More about potions: I want the crafting and other skills back, as I have said before. I do understand how frustrating it can be to carry all those items around with you. The resources in DA2 really don't make sense - a never ending supply of lyrium, glitterdust, etc.? Why wouldn't the templars and the mages be tearing down your front door? Perhaps an option would be to set up an alchemy lab, for example in Hawke's basement. You and whichever companion has the requisite crafting or poisonmaking skills could go to the lab to do your work, same for runecrafting and trapmaking. In fact, you could have to carry all your supplies at the beginning and have a quest for setting up the lab: storage, work space, equipment. As you purchase or find supplies you can either store them back at the lab or carry them with you to create the items as you go along.

[TopcatPlayer]

One of my favourite crafting experiences was the rune crafting and choosing what symbol to have on a shield in Dragon Age Awakening and the lightsaber crafting in KOTOR2. I also like the RPG element that a rogue has more skills per level up therefore giving them a faster and more varied route in learning the skill trees than a warrior or mage. This however does not stop warriors and mages from gaining certain skills, they just cant be a jack of all trades and will probably only focus on one. With Dragon Age 2 you did away with that but you streamlined the combat skill tree and really made it more fun to level up your combat skills. Now just use the same branching system for skills like persuasion, crafting, lockpicking like in Dragon Age Origins/awakening etc. like the poison section you can focus on bombs or coats for weapons. And i want my playable character to do the crafting if at all. Hiring people to do it for me in DA2 felt like Hawke was some spoilt lazy person.

[Onics]

1) The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
2) Collecting lots of things to use in crafting

[andocrack]

I like crafting that can be as simple or complex as you want. Being able to pick up stuff that looks like junk and keep it to craft with is important to me for any RPG. In DA2, all the junk you picked up was just junk to sell for a few coppers. I like that Origins had tiers that you could upgrade when leveling up, and different classes of crafting that a character class may or may not use. My mage learned advanced herbalism, while all my warrior focused on combat and speech, thus having to buy potions instead of making them.

Also, I like changing the looks of my weapons. Seeing my dual-wielding warrior (which I know many people want to see return) with his lightning sword and fire axe on his back illuminating conversations was one of the little things that made my Warden seem so badass.

"Randomizing the process" doesn't seem like a good idea, at least not for everything. Maybe as a "you know you're gambling when you do this" type of thing, but nothing more.

And one final note, I hate picking up 40 different items and not knowing when I'm going to use 35 of them next. My two most recent RPGs were Skyrim and the Witcher 2, and both of them were like that. I'm always afraid to sell stuff I might need later, and there's not always a spot for stashing it so you have to throw some away. Who's going to throw away 40 root extracts when a single weapon weighs the same?

[loaklt1]

The most important thing for me when it comes to crafting are the limits on what you can craft based on skill. They allow you to develop your characters into more branches than simply combat and thus make more interesting builds possible. For example, I liked how the Runecrafting in Awakening was done, but I could also imagine a system without Origin's separate "skills", where you'd spend normal spell or talent points on additional branches in the normal talent tree-in fact I'd prefer it this way as this would limit your character's fighting skills but give him other abilities instead.
It's definitly important that the crafted items are special ones and not available by other means. I imagine a runecrafting system like the following: Normal runes are accessible via trade and loot, so you can always upgrade your characters weapons and armor; but to gain the more powerful runes you need a character skilled in Runecrafting. 
Oh, and with regards to the crafting system of Awakening: It was actually quite annoying that you had to craft a thousand lesser runes just to merge them into a more powerful one. Recipes don't need to contain whole books of ingredient lists, 2-3 ingredients per crafted item are enough if they are seldom ore expensive and a high skill is required to produce the item.
It would be cool if we would be able to craft not only runes but also whole weapons, armor or jewelry. Once again: It has to be worthwhile to invest into crafting skills and materials, so the crafted items should be special ones not accessible by other means. 
A note on crafting potions: Potions that increase certain attributes permanently work well in other games and could be an interesting opportunity in DA,too. In general, crafted items that work in another way than offering only good weapons or more damage, healing ect. could be interesting.

The ability to shape the looks of an item is always nice-but the aspects of actual effects are more important. I have nothing against possible visual crafting, but it shouldn't be implemented  with priority over the stats. If we look at Mass Effect 2, for example, you are able to create your own armor-but the single peaces don't have muc effects, as it was obviously meant that you could have the armor you wanted without having disatvantages for your class or character. Maybe it would be good to separate visual changes completly frome those that effect the stats.

[mslav7]

Here's my list on this topic from highest priority down to least one:
- Possibility to create unique items with abilities not available anywhere else. Something you can't get from shops or as rewards, neither from mooks/bosses. That's the best motivation for crafting imo. It even may be a unique item required for some quest, not for pure battle purposes. If this point is missing - why bother crafting at all?
- Ability to choose the right combination of stats/properties well suited for one's characters class/role.
- "The ability to upgrade an item (runes)" - yep.
- "Collecting lots of things to use in crafting" - yes, that's good.
- "Randomizing the process" - well, yes, why not.

[Shade of Wolf]

The visual look of a weapon. I found in Origins and DA2, that once I got a weapon that looked awesome, even armor, I just wore that for the rest of the playthrough, regardless of stats.
Please don't make us collect things. Or at least don't make it so that we have to farm a certain item with a 0.0000001% drop rate.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I love being able to craft an item. I would like to be able to tailor how the item looks to what my character is wearing. I also like items that grow with a character. Maybe have it change and evolve as you do throughout the game. Kind of like it was tailor made for the type of character you choose to make based on what skills and attributes you choose as your player grows and learns new skills. Let us have cross-class skills that benefit every character and their weapon.

[Shade of Wolf]

I thought I should mention Dark Souls' way of enhanching weapons/armor. Sure, it could get annoying when you wanted to upgrade a bunch of items, but on an average playthrough you found enough to fully upgrade a weapon or two and they became really powerful.
You don't really have to go looking for the items, you will eventually encounted many of them, unless you choose to run away from every fight lol.

[Shade of Wolf]

Rpgfantasyplayer wrote...

I love being able to craft an item. I would like to be able to tailor how the item looks to what my character is wearing. I also like items that grow with a character. Maybe have it change and evolve as you do throughout the game. Kind of like it was tailor made for the type of character you choose to make based on what skills and attributes you choose as your player grows and learns new skills. Let us have cross-class skills that benefit every character and their weapon.

Cross-class skills: YES!

[Nurot]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Momiji.mii wrote...

But please Bioware no obligatory crafting. ;_; Make it completely optional!

That can be arranged. Crafting should be fun, engaging and let you have lots of control, but I don't see that it be mandatory to complete the game. Maybe to see everything in the game, it becomes required, but ideally that kind of goal also requires things like playing a different class.

I really hate crafting. It is so incredibly boring, but I really like to see everything in the game, so I would prefer it if crafting was completely optional (and not just mostly optional). At least if you want to experience all of the story. (I don't mind not being able to use special weapons and such). I am a completionist and I will happily play through the game multiple times with different types of characters to see it all, but crafting just kills my enjoyment if I can't avoid it (like I can in DAO and DA2).

I liked crafting in DA2, but I don't really consider that crafting. It felt more like regular shopping. Spicing up your armor and weapons with runes was fun, but I thought the +elemental damage runes were a bit boring, since the effect of the elemental damage (like stun for lightening) wasn't applied. It would have been more fun if no extra damage was added and all the damage of the weapon was instead turned into the element of the rune. This would probaly make the rune too overpowered though.

A type of crafting that I sometimes enjoy is when you find a piece of something (like dragon bone) that some other person can turn into one of three things, like the dragon bone armors in DAO. But everything that means lugging around multiple ingredients and manually turning them into one potion for each click, like in DAO (or worse Awakening) or the Elder scrolls, is a no no to me.

I like to clarify that I don't mind crafting in the game. If other people like it I don't want to stand in their way, as long as I can avoid it myself and still experience all of the story and quests (except for the "fetch this and that" quests, since they don't really add anything storywise).

[Malice]

The ability to tailor the way an item looks (visual)
The ability to upgrade an item (runes)
Collecting lots of things to use in crafting
The ability to buy crafting materials

[Katiania]

When crafting a weapon or other method of killing, I suppose how it works would be most important. I like being able to upgrade the weapon. Second priority would be looks. I would like to see the change I made in the weapon, how much faster it works, or if it creates more damage than before. I have never gotten into rune crafting, like in Awakenings, I'd rather leave that up to the experts, you know who.

I don't particularly care for carrying around all sorts of crafting stuff if I have an inventory limit. I would have to prioritize, poisons, explosives, things that can kill come first. Then, if I have the room, healing supplies. Lastly, rune crafting. if I can spare the room, which I usually can't because I compulsively hoard other materials and weapons.

[asmodeusnecro]

Please bring back proper crafting! Seeing a return to the crafting system from Origins would be amazing enough, but if you were to add extras such as visual customisation that would be the best, especially if you had to find different items for different the different visual aspects. I love having to collect tons of materials for crafting, but I'd love to see some dedicated storage space so you can sort out your items a bit better. I'd also love to see class specific crafting options. More randomised outcomes would be cool, and stats and runes are pretty much essential.