1659 réponses à ce sujet

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your just upset because it did change the end...Something that was stated time and time agein that this was not going to be the case.

I already stated I did not expect it to change the endings. I went into this DLC optimistic and hopeful enough that I bought it as soon as it became available. I truly felt maybe Bioware was looking to make amends for the ending debacle and was looking to give us quality content that we could enjoy and that would feel meaningful.

I am dissapointed, not in them, but in my own wishful thinking, that is not that case. I feel I gained nothing from Leviathan. Nothing about the Mass Effect universe that I care about was gained, nothing about the plot was intriguing or not anything that has not been explained before. The characters were bland. In essence, everything I enjoy about Mass Effect was not present, and like the game proper, I feel no sense of accomplishment for my purhase, my time, or my loyalty as a fan.

Bioware seems to be completely failing to understand the first rule of game development: The concept of player reward. What does a player get out of playing your game? Out of playing a specic level or using a certain gun or power?

With the endings, all of them are too bleak for anyone to enjoy in their entirety, it invalidates (at least to some like me) the entire purpose of playing all three games. For me, it was about the characters, my attachment to them and the world. In every ending you screw at least several of your friends over and mess up the universe in some manner. With Leviathan, the problem is the opposite: Nothing changes. I feel not attachment to the Brysons, I feel no interest in the Leviathans or satisfaction in them helping, which I guess is what they're doing. For now. It adds nothing to the unviverse that was interesting or wanted, and nothing to the characters I love, save for a pretty neat bit with EDI and even James and Cortez, characters who rarely get to shine.

Ultimately, however, it just isn't enough.

You are right.  This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy. 

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

[mauro2222]

HBC Dresden wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

"Each formed in Harbinger's image"... retcons, they just simply love them. Instead of changing textures they retcon things. How lazy is that?

Umm, actually the Catalyst implies this in the Extended Cut before Leviathan was released.

Not so literal, the retcon is still there though.

As said word-for-word in the Extended Cut:

Catalyst: The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators.
Shepard: And what happened to your creators?
Catalyst: They became the first true Reaper.

Seems crystal clear to me

With literal I meant having the giant cuttlefish in the background looking exactly like Harby. Till that moment we only knew that the species form (the real image) was inside the giant dreadnought, just like Terminator in ME2 wasn't supposed to go flying like superman shooting lasers from his eyes.

So how it a retcon to explain where the dreadnought outer shell came from? That is what the Catalyst was talking about and what Leviathan supports. Leviathan never said anything about the inner shape.

They retconend the outter shell... not the inside... every reaper is a copy of Sovereign.

[dreamgazer]

If anyone's curious, finishing Leviathan doesn't really impact anything about the conversations on Thessia (with Javik + Liara).

[Comsky159]

Baa Baa wrote...
Srs? No decisions? Damn.

Yeah that was rather disappointing.

[ZackG312]

where the bio drones be

WTH Bioware are you trying to anger fans.

Modifié par ZackG312, 28 août 2012 - 06:21 .

[10K]

Do anyone know what affect the DLC has on the catalyst?

[Rovay]

mosesarose wrote...

Do anyone know what affect the DLC has on the catalyst?

It expands the investigate option on its creators.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AstusOz wrote...

So, considering that we have the impression that within the Reaper shell, there's a shell that's a representation of the original species harvested. Does that mean that Harbinger has exactly the same thing in miniature on the inside? Is Harbinger the Universe's first Babushka Doll?

Oh god this is hilarious-I never thought of it like that.  That was a way I think in order to explain away proto reapers and the lack of diversity amongst the reaper reapers.  I still have a hard time seeing a human proto reaper inside a reaper, flying it around.  But even more hilarious is the idea of a flying biped reaper, like some evil mechanical anti-Superman in space.

The Babushka Doll is the thought seed for the Reapers.  That explains so much about how we got the endings were have experienced.  Maybe after some more DLC, we'll be able to open Harbinger up again and again until we get to little baby Harbinger.  Then, Shepard can just crush him in the palm of his hand!

[Velocithon]

mosesarose wrote...

Do anyone know what affect the DLC has on the catalyst?

None. He simply acknowledges the Leviathans are involved in the war and that is it.

The DLC does nothing but educate you about the Reapers origins. After it's over, there is no impact on the story.

[aridor1570]

I don't even think they've killed that reaper, if they did, why didn't they just kill the reaper forces on the ship if it would be so easy to kill a whole reaper like that. I think they've just took control of it and made it crash on the planet.

[dreman9999]

ElitePinecone wrote...

dreaming_raithe wrote...

1. If the Leviathans enthralled the entire galaxy, and their thralls started making synthetics, which were wiping them out, why didn't they wipe out the synthetics, and then stop their indoctrinated subjects from making more? Problem solved. No Reapers, no AI-kid.

2. If the AI's directive was to "preserve all life" they must have done a terrible programming job since it started killing organics pretty quickly. Mind you, this is actually a problem with the main game itself, but it's still there.

3. If they can just shut Reapers down, how did they lose to the AI army in the first place? For that matter, why didn't they just wipe the stupid thing when it made its first programming error (building a Reaper)?

Essentially, it hurts because Bioware keeps going down this ridiculous rabbit hole. I had faith in them once upon a time, and thought they could learn from the mistakes ME3 presented initially. Then they proved me wrong with more nonsense from the Catalyst in the EC. And now they're continuing with it in the DLC, as if to create a foundation for the out of left field stuff they did originally.

And they can't even do *that* right without causing issues.

All of this.

Especially the last paragraph. It feels like the writers backed themselves into a ludicrous synthetic-organic conflict corner in the original ending and keep wanting to find ways to justify that in future content - without ever explaining how the logic works in the first place. 

When Leviathan flat-out stated that their thralls' synthetic creations rebelled against them, were we supposed to take that as evidence for the inevitability of conflict? Without that explanation the whole Reaper-Leviathan-Catalyst-synthetic-organic plot just falls to nonsense. 

The series is drowning in its own lore, at this point. 

The problem here is that the people discussing this is not giving the full details.

I just finished the dlc.

1. The Leviathan doing use indoctrination. Indoctriantion is a result of the fine tuning of their power. What they use is the power domination. It's nit as detailed as indoctrination.
Also, it made clear they are a very arrogant race who did not want to be bothed with the problem of a lesser races it ruled and made something to do it for them.
 

2.Leviathan clearly state the Ai was creater to preserver life at any cost....

That would mean no limit was ever given to the catalyst...It true could do its programing any way it saw fit.

3. The catalyst was able to beat the Leviathans because they were allowed to grow in power to seek a solution, being allowed to make minnions to do it's bidding. It then took the Leviathan wit out warning in a surprise attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3J9Rpse0qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=451s

[mauro2222]

Yay! we gave the giant coral cuttlefish the ability to control the entire galaxy by spreading their magical orbs.

[CrutchCricket]

aridor1570 wrote...

I don't even think they've killed that reaper, if they did, why didn't they just kill the reaper forces on the ship if it would be so easy to kill a whole reaper like that. I think they've just took control of it and made it crash on the planet.

That or stunned it, long enough to fall in teh water where they could get at it.

I don't think the mental attack was lethal. Leviathans are not invincible. We're going to need to hang on to that if we don't want to be overwhelmed by green ****.

[GreyLycanTrope]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Not sure if you're serious that synthesis was meant to be thought provoking, but if you are, just remember what happened to saren in the boss fight at the end of ME1. Crazy leapfrog lazerbeam shooting killing machine. He was synthesis. He said it. He was part organic and part synthetic by the boss scene at the end. The only thoughts that provokes are extremely disturbing ones, particularly regarding anyone who proudly chose that option having played ME1.

I think that was the intent, someone tried to be deep and failed. The idea was meant to provoke thoughts about evolution, transhumanism, morallity, the price of peace, coexistance between synthetics and oragnics and how  to achieve that possibliy. I refelected on that for a bit, didn't help much. Came off as mostly comical to me. The reflection resulting in me going  "man is this stupid."

[Tootles FTW]

Leviathan being as powerful as it is (based upon descriptions - haven't had a chance to play it yet myself) it seems Bioware is just opening up ANOTHER plothole by not having this DLC effect the ending in some way. War assets do not count when you just discovered a race of beings that can control/disable a Reaper with their fr@cking minds, seriously.

Still, significant squadmate banter/dialogues & a disembodied head decoration? I'm in.

[dreman9999]

aridor1570 wrote...

I don't even think they've killed that reaper, if they did, why didn't they just kill the reaper forces on the ship if it would be so easy to kill a whole reaper like that. I think they've just took control of it and made it crash on the planet.

Here's another detail peoeple keep missing. The leviathans us the orbs to amplify their power. They used that to turn off the reaper.  Not there powers allown.

[Gistnik]

cotheer wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

All the Leviathans have 5 tendrils/arms, why do Harbinger have only 4?

Maybe it's a SHE 

ROTFL!!!!!:lol:

[ElitePinecone]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

[dreman9999]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Leviathan being as powerful as it is (based upon descriptions - haven't had a chance to play it yet myself) it seems Bioware is just opening up ANOTHER plothole by not having this DLC effect the ending in some way. War assets do not count when you just discovered a race of beings that can control/disable a Reaper with their fr@cking minds, seriously.

Still, significant squadmate banter/dialogues & a disembodied head decoration? I'm in.

Anyone that thinks thismissed the fact they have to use the orbs probes they have to amplify there power. Added, it never shownthey can control more than reaper at a time.
That does not work on a fleet.

[Comsky159]

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

Yay! we gave the giant coral cuttlefish the ability to control the entire galaxy by spreading their magical orbs.

It's tech that amplifies their domination power. It like a mobile biotic amp.

Modifié par dreman9999, 28 août 2012 - 06:31 .

[ElitePinecone]

Greylycantrope wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

Not sure if you're serious that synthesis was meant to be thought provoking, but if you are, just remember what happened to saren in the boss fight at the end of ME1. Crazy leapfrog lazerbeam shooting killing machine. He was synthesis. He said it. He was part organic and part synthetic by the boss scene at the end. The only thoughts that provokes are extremely disturbing ones, particularly regarding anyone who proudly chose that option having played ME1.

I think that was the intent, someone tried to be deep and failed. The idea was meant to provoke thoughts about evolution, transhumanism, morallity, the price of peace, coexistance between synthetics and oragnics and how  to achieve that possibliy. I refelected on that for a bit, didn't help much. Came off as mostly comical to me. The reflection resulting in me going  "man is this stupid."

I gave up trying to take it seriously when TIM and the Catalyst got the definition of evolution wrong, then talked about "a new DNA". It was a thematic sharp right turn when there didn't need to be one, and it wasn't written well enough to make me believe it or care. It sounded really cheesy and artificial (which is odd, because Sovereign on Virmire was chilling and enthralling). 

[DENNIStehMENACE]

i dont see why it matters if this dlc affects the ending or not. i think EC did a very good job with the ending. I mean come on this dlc finally gave us the answer to a question we've had since ME1. the origin of the reapers! thats a HUGE deal. but i guess everyone is more pissed off that we didnt get another sentence or two from the catalyst or because we didnt get an extra slide wit the leviathans.

[dreman9999]

ZackG312 wrote...

where the bio drones be

WTH Bioware are you trying to anger fans.

What to be angry about?