1659 réponses à ce sujet

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Yay! we gave the giant coral cuttlefish the ability to control the entire galaxy by spreading their magical orbs.

It's tech that amplifies their domination power. It like a mobile biotic amp.

I know dreman... "by spreading their magical orbs"

[dreman9999]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

Not sure if you're serious that synthesis was meant to be thought provoking, but if you are, just remember what happened to saren in the boss fight at the end of ME1. Crazy leapfrog lazerbeam shooting killing machine. He was synthesis. He said it. He was part organic and part synthetic by the boss scene at the end. The only thoughts that provokes are extremely disturbing ones, particularly regarding anyone who proudly chose that option having played ME1.

I think that was the intent, someone tried to be deep and failed. The idea was meant to provoke thoughts about evolution, transhumanism, morallity, the price of peace, coexistance between synthetics and oragnics and how  to achieve that possibliy. I refelected on that for a bit, didn't help much. Came off as mostly comical to me. The reflection resulting in me going  "man is this stupid."

I gave up trying to take it seriously when TIM and the Catalyst got the definition of evolution wrong, then talked about "a new DNA". It was a thematic sharp right turn when there didn't need to be one, and it wasn't written well enough to make me believe it or care. It sounded really cheesy and artificial (which is odd, because Sovereign on Virmire was chilling and enthralling). 

As Legion said"We say 2+1=3. They say 2+2=4."
Nothing is say what they are saying is an absolute truth. It's just their opinion.

Modifié par dreman9999, 28 août 2012 - 06:37 .

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Yay! we gave the giant coral cuttlefish the ability to control the entire galaxy by spreading their magical orbs.

It's tech that amplifies their domination power. It like a mobile biotic amp.

I know dreman... "by spreading their magical orbs"

Any technology which we don't understand inheritly is seen as  magic. We also doing even know how the prothean becons work.Why don't people have an issue with them?

[nevar00]

I have no played Leviathan, nor do I have any intention to do so.  But I am interested in hearing the story.  Now tell me if I got this: the Leviathans, 3 massive space squids, were basically the Reapers before the reapers became reapers and are arguably even worse because of mind control and stuff.  So one species created the Catalyst and began turning themselves in Reapers to drive off the Leviathans, only something went wrong and they started harvesting people so they don't get killed by the Leviathans should they ever come back, I guess.  So Shepard convinces the Leviathans to rejoin the rest of the galaxy and fight on his side.

Do I have the basic gist of this?

ElitePinecone wrote...

HAHAHAHA.

We just encouraged at least three members of an ancient slavemaster coral-squid-god species with tendencies towards megalomania and mind-control powers to re-emerge into the galaxy. A galaxy they once utterly dominated using limitless power with no concern for thralls of "lesser species". It took the Reapers to stop them last time, even if the Leviathans can somehow kill them *with their minds*.

Then we gave their mind-control artefacts TO OUR OWN FORCES TO SPREAD AROUND THE GALAXY. Even after Leviathan - who wasn't 'born' when its species was cast down - reminisces about the good old days of blood tributes and complete control of the galaxy.

Good job, Team Shepard! I, for one, welcome our new crustacean-coral overlords.

Sounds more like they're trying to set up the plot to Mass Effect 4, to me.

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Yay! we gave the giant coral cuttlefish the ability to control the entire galaxy by spreading their magical orbs.

It's tech that amplifies their domination power. It like a mobile biotic amp.

I know dreman... "by spreading their magical orbs"

Any technology which we don't understand inheritly is seen as  magic. We also doing even know how the prothean becons work.Why don't people have an issue with them?

It was a joke... magical orb -> Palantír (black ball)

[GreyLycanTrope]

ElitePinecone wrote...
I gave up trying to take it seriously when TIM and the Catalyst got the definition of evolution wrong, then talked about "a new DNA". It was a thematic sharp right turn when there didn't need to be one, and it wasn't written well enough to make me believe it or care. It sounded really cheesy and artificial (which is odd, because Sovereign on Virmire was chilling and enthralling). 

A villian who views you as nothing and will do what he damn well pleases in pursuit of futhering his own goals, be it power, domination, or continued self-preservation is to me superior to one that is simply trying to help you in a very twisted and seemingly contradictory manner. Simple goals are better then ones that try to overreach and present you with a deeper conflict, it just comes of as convoluted if not downright illogical.

[RiderPale]

Well, well, well. Seems the PC-players among us have a little unfair advantage with the DLC coming out later than the console versions. After reading this thread, I have to wonder if the sale numbers for that version might be a little bit... disappointing for EA?

Now, my thoughts: obviously the ME franchise is property of EA and Bioware, 'entitling' them to write the story as they feel fit according to 'artistic integrity'.

At the same time, though, it is a product, one that is sold to customers to make money. And customers generally have some say about stuff they spend their cash on. Funny thing, really.

To me, this DLC would have been worth its price if in the end, for example, a high enough EMS would have let you save the Geth and Edi when choosing Destroy. Something minor, something easy implemented, even hinted at in the leaked script, but something that made me feel 'Yeah, I did something good, it was worth it'. After all, I play for the feeling of winning. For depressing stuff I already have real life.

Bioware chose to make the unchanged endings actually worse instead, like quite a few have already stated hare. Ok, staying true to you vision is their right, like I stated at the beginning.

I, however, choose to not buy the product in this case. THAT is my right as customer.

My apologies to the people making their living by designing and programming those DLCs (excluding certain project leads), but I won't spend hard earned money on something that fails to live up even to my minimum expectations. I bought the ME3 Collectors Edition. Unfortunately, that will be the last of my money you'll see.

Modifié par RiderPale, 28 août 2012 - 06:44 .

[ElitePinecone]

DENNIStehMENACE wrote...

i dont see why it matters if this dlc affects the ending or not. i think EC did a very good job with the ending. I mean come on this dlc finally gave us the answer to a question we've had since ME1. the origin of the reapers! thats a HUGE deal. but i guess everyone is more pissed off that we didnt get another sentence or two from the catalyst or because we didnt get an extra slide wit the leviathans.

I guess it's just... disappointing that the mythology of the Reapers contradicts itself throughout the series, and when we *do* find out their origins it's drowning in lore that was introduced in the last five minutes of the third game - lore that arguably barely makes sense on its own terms .

Organics are enslaving other organics, these slave organics make synthetics to destroy the master organics, so the master organics make a synthetic to save organics from synthetics that they themselves built (or will build. "inevitably"), the synthetic then builds other synthetics to kill organics so that they won't make synthetics that will then kill organics, and in doing so kills its own master organic creators, while being a synthetic.

The EC and Leviathan both build on this mythology and it's just... really unengaging. Was this really what the conversation with Sovereign was building up to? After three games?

[Tazzmission]

ok so i just beat leviathan and i have to say that was epic! honestly this wouldve been one hell of an epic ending 

Modifié par Tazzmission, 28 août 2012 - 06:42 .

[TMA LIVE]

So... how come they don't tell you the Reaper AI is on the Citadel? I mean, they should know. They made the AI. Unless it once wasn't on the Citadel. But even then, these guys should know about it. They've been monitoring for years.

[Baa Baa]

Comsky159 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

ZackG312 wrote...

where the bio drones be

WTH Bioware are you trying to anger fans.

What to be angry about?

I actually agree with this question. The new context given does nothing to really changed what was in ME3 before. If you didn't like it to begin with you won't now. If you did like before, you'll probably like it now. As it stands Leviathan doesn't seem to be bad from what I've seen of the gameplay, it gives you some war assets and info on the Reapers origin. The context doesn't effect the end much at all in my opinion, it either adds to the stupidity of it, or is enjoyable based on the perspective you had before.

[AresKeith]

Baa Baa wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

[Tootles FTW]

dreman9999 wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

Leviathan being as powerful as it is (based upon descriptions - haven't had a chance to play it yet myself) it seems Bioware is just opening up ANOTHER plothole by not having this DLC effect the ending in some way. War assets do not count when you just discovered a race of beings that can control/disable a Reaper with their fr@cking minds, seriously.

Still, significant squadmate banter/dialogues & a disembodied head decoration? I'm in.

Anyone that thinks thismissed the fact they have to use the orbs probes they have to amplify there power. Added, it never shownthey can control more than reaper at a time.
That does not work on a fleet.

I don't know what you're talking about as far as "orb probes" - as I stated, I haven't played the DLC yet. 

But you would think upon discovering the Leviathans that Commander Shepard would put as much effort into utilizing them as she/he did in building the Crucible - a gigantic machine that was built on nothing but vague information in the implied hope that it will maybe stop the Reapers.  Meanwhile the Leviathans offer a tangle weapon.  Why would this not be a priority for the Alliance?  This, to me, is information that would change everything.

Whether that equals transporting these "orb probes" or (insert Macguffin here) to get the Leviathans to where they need to be & at the power-level they need to do their space magic is incidental. 

[dreman9999]

Sion1138 wrote...

I am truly sorry, but it's time for a little venting.

I've just seen the whole thing. And I want to puke. First the Catalyst, now this. A new dimension of ridiculous.

How can...? What? Bioware... What the hell happened to you guys!?

How is this ridiculous?

[Tazzmission]

now that i think of it.. why wasnt leviathan the plot device for me3?

not hating on the catalyst but wow this dlc was great

[ElitePinecone]

dreman9999 wrote...
snip

Please, please, please spellcheck your posts and maybe slow down a bit so you don't make so many typos. It hurts to read this. 

I'd be fine with the synthetic-DNA-transhumanism hoohah being TIM's/the Catalyst's opinion if it were clearly established that they're misguided - but the game takes it all deadly seriously, to the point where characters prance around talking about "new frameworks" and we're expected to be wowed by the profundity of it all? 

Even EDI's narration in the improbably utopian Synthesis ending waxes lyrical about understanding and mutual compromise, yadda yadda, but we have no idea how it works beyond some pictures of cells with gears inside them or something. It's presented as fact (the Catalyst's solution, perfect harmony), but the game can't make a case for it beyond space magic and vague platitudes about organic-synthetic convergence being some inevitable cosmic will. 

[dreman9999]

Tootles FTW wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

Leviathan being as powerful as it is (based upon descriptions - haven't had a chance to play it yet myself) it seems Bioware is just opening up ANOTHER plothole by not having this DLC effect the ending in some way. War assets do not count when you just discovered a race of beings that can control/disable a Reaper with their fr@cking minds, seriously.

Still, significant squadmate banter/dialogues & a disembodied head decoration? I'm in.

Anyone that thinks thismissed the fact they have to use the orbs probes they have to amplify there power. Added, it never shownthey can control more than reaper at a time.
That does not work on a fleet.

The weapon is just an amplifier of their power and it can stop all the reapers at once. It can't do anything ageinst distance fire.

I don't know what you're talking about as far as "orb probes" - as I stated, I haven't played the DLC yet. 

But you would think upon discovering the Leviathans that Commander Shepard would put as much effort into utilizing them as she/he did in building the Crucible - a gigantic machine that was built on nothing but vague information in the implied hope that it will maybe stop the Reapers.  Meanwhile the Leviathans offer a tangle weapon.  Why would this not be a priority for the Alliance?  This, to me, is information that would change everything.

Whether that equals transporting these "orb probes" or (insert Macguffin here) to get the Leviathans to where they need to be & at the power-level they need to do their space magic is incidental. 

The weapon is just an amplifier of their power and it can stop all the reapers at once. It can't do anything ageinst distance fire.
 It can only slow down the reapers. Not stop their fleet. Even the Leviathans fell to the reapers.

[Baa Baa]

AresKeith wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

Hmmm. I wonder how big we can make this quote for just two posts.

[Sovereign24]

Baa Baa wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

I personally don't feel this way. I never really felt any connection for most of my squad mates (in 1, 2 and 3), as I found most of them to be pretty bland. The 3 that I probably felt something for all died (Wrex in 1 and Legion and Mordin in 3).
 
I guess I just viewed it differently. For me ME was always about the Reapers. I've been fascinated by them ever since that epic conversation with Sovereign on Virmire.

Modifié par Sovereign24, 28 août 2012 - 06:55 .

[The Twilight God]

I was watching the DLC on Youtube and I get to thinking...

Ann Brysonn
Miranda
Tali
Garrus (kinda...)
Wrex
Liara (sorta)
Jacob
Thane (was the daddy issue)


Does somebody at Bioware have daddy issues?

[GreyLycanTrope]

starlitegirlx wrote...

At the risk of being flamed or loathed, I'm going to say that I am in the indoctrination theory camp when I look at the starbrat and how control and synthesis, especially when gussied up by the EC DLC to come off as utopias in their own unique ways. Now with this added info, I have to say that if shep lets leviathan loose and leviathan easily mind controls, then he does it under mind control. It's the only logic I can make of it. It's the only conclusion I can come to especially given this husk skull bit. WTF is that?

Maybe the creative folk at BW are really evil geniuses and it's really all a commentary on sheeple and how easy it is to brainwash or mind control/manipulate someone to your side when they are in need of help or searching for answers or even just not having any awareness or understanding of certain facts and ideas. Shep thinks leviathan can help. Easy target. Shep thinks the reapers are the true bad guys, but really, they only come around every 50k years and leave young civilizations an opportunity to thrive. That trumps this other kind of leviathan kind of long term slavery. It's a choice of the lesser of two evils. But at the core there is still the mind control brainwashing issue which was a constant in ME1 if you chose to ask questions of certain people who had been up against it and especially with saren and benezia. It then disappeared in ME2 with only the constant reminder from illusive man's eyes (wasn't there some material published about what the eyes of an indoctrinated person look like?) I think he was exposed along with a friend that died, no? But in ME3 it's barely a footnote if you don't deal with the hannar side mission at the citadel. Leviathan seems to put all that back in the game again. Very prominently. So maybe it's just some kind of brilliant commentary that's getting back to a key story aspect of ME1.

I just don't know anymore.

I honestly don't think IT will happen, but hey it's still a better concept then the story as is. Husk skull is likely a reference to prometheus.

[Baa Baa]

Sovereign24 wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
This trilogy was about Shepard and his squadmates.  The ending was about Star Brat and the Reapers.  The Reaper story (which is internally inconsistent from ME1/2 to ME3, by the way) isn't interesting.  The Reapers are the enemy.  The trilogy is not about the enemy.  It is about the relationships needed to defeat the enemy.  

Now, as if Bioware was attempting to justify why its ending is about something completely divorced from the thrust of the trilogy, they give us another story largely about the antagonist.  That isn't why people played the games.

Now that's a good way to put it.

I personally don't feel this way. I never really felt any connection for most of my squad mates (in 1, 2 and 3), as I found most of them to be pretty bland. The 3 that I probably felt something for all died (Wrex in 1 and Legion and Mordin in 3).
 
I guess I just viewed it differently. For me ME was always about the Reapers. It was that way ever since that epic conversation with Soverign on Virmire.

Really?
:crying:I'll be honest I kind of feel sorry for you not liking any of the characters. Although I liked the Reapers in 1 and 2 the Squadmates were the appeal to me.