20 réponses à ce sujet

[riccaborto]

Neverwinter Nights, Kotor, DA Origins, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2. Excellent games. They were praised and well acclaimed... yes maybe a few people didn't like ME2 but generally it received good critics.

I don't think BioWare needs we to tell them how to make a game. They already know what it takes to write a good story and create interesting characters. They only have to decide if do it, or not.

I'm NOT sayin' feedback is useless. Some of us may have good suggestions and ideas for in-game features, probably BioWare did listen to some of them in the past and will do in the future.. and me too I like to share my thoughts on the forum.

But BioWare could make a great game even without us. And we have a choice: to BUY their games, or NOT.

I lost faith in BioWare after DA2 and ME3.. but I think they can still surprise us, if only they WANT to.
I'll give them one last chance with DA3. Will see.

I

[JasonPogo]

What was the point of this post? This is a message board. What do you expect to see here? People will talk about Biowares games on a Bioware message board.

[riccaborto]

I was talking especially 'bout feedback for DA3... yes maybe I didn't make myself clear.

[Renmiri1]

Brown nosing the mods ?

[FieryDove]

If no one every says what they like/dislike they would have to rely entirely on data like 50% never finish games.

Maybe cut out endings would save money and time?

The suits would like that but I doubt the Dev's would.

[Realmzmaster]

Feedback is always important. Constructive criticism of a product should always be sought. How else can you improve the product if there is no feedback?

[King Cousland]

Feedback is a mutually beneficial system. We the fans can sometimes form a consensus on what we like and dislike (eg, we like customisation, we dislike reccled enviroments), making games more enjoyable for us and BioWare acquires information on what it can do to improve it's next game, thus improving sales and reception. 

[Maria Caliban]

BioWare needs feedback. It doesn't need our feedback, though the developers do want it.

[Arthur Cousland]

Whether or not our ideas end up in a Bioware game in any form, it doesn't hurt to give feedback on what we like and dislike in a game. The game data alone doesn't neccessarily reflect certain features that are popular or hated.

People giving feedback doesn't mean that the average poster actually thinks that they are part of the development team, intend to tell the develpment staff how to do their job, or that they could do better.  Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 28 août 2012 - 10:23 .

[lx_theo]

Feedback is EXTREMELY useful to tell them what people are enjoying and what works in the game. Feedback is invaluable for this purpose.

The details of how to make it? No, it is not nearly as useful. You'd be closer to right there.

[gangly369]

Feedback can be extremely useful. The only trouble comes from dissecting the feedback into 'useful' and 'junk' piles. Because, face it, fans can sometimes provide confusing feedback that seemingly contradicts what it is they really want. If you have a good team of devs that are able to pick out what it is the player wants, then all is well. From what was shown in the DLC for DA2, I can say that I believe that this group of devs are listening and can successfully extract the good feedback from the bad.

[BatmanPWNS]

After DA2, TOR and ME3 outrages. I think they need at least a bit.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 29 août 2012 - 10:15 .

[CELL55]

FieryDove wrote...

If no one every says what they like/dislike they would have to rely entirely on data like 50% never finish games.

Maybe cut out endings would save money and time?

The suits would like that but I doubt the Dev's would.

 I wish we could do that retroactively for ME3. <_<

[Terror_K]

simfamSP wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

After DA2, TOR and ME3 outrages. I think they need at least a bit.

The problem is, one out of those three games didn't deserve that much crap :-/ I'm sure if the ending was awesome there would be far less outcries.

The ending was the least of ME3's problems.

In fact, most of BioWare's games don't have problems so much as they have symphoms. Sympthoms from a far greater cause at a source above the games themselves.

There's no point giving feedback because unless BioWare actually learn from their mistakes and get over their current mindset issues, it's not going to do any good. So long as they are in this mode where they don't even want to make proper RPGs any more and keep trying to pander to the mainstream masses and find these "perfect hybrid" games that they'll never find, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Modifié par Terror_K, 30 août 2012 - 04:33 .

[riccaborto]

Terror_K wrote...

The ending was the least of ME3's problems.

In fact, most of BioWare's games don't have problems so much as they have symphoms. Sympthoms from a far greater cause at a source above the games themselves.

There's no point giving feedback because unless BioWare actually learn from their mistakes and get over their current mindset issues, it's not going to do any good. So long as they are in this mode where they don't even want to make proper RPGs any more and keep trying to pander to the mainstream masses and find these "perfect hybrid" games that they'll never find, it's like talking to a brick wall.

This is more or less what I mean... Our feedback is useless if they do not intend to change the way they make games.

[Grizzly46]

Terror_K wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

After DA2, TOR and ME3 outrages. I think they need at least a bit.

The problem is, one out of those three games didn't deserve that much crap :-/ I'm sure if the ending was awesome there would be far less outcries.

The ending was the least of ME3's problems.

In fact, most of BioWare's games don't have problems so much as they have symphoms. Sympthoms from a far greater cause at a source above the games themselves.

There's no point giving feedback because unless BioWare actually learn from their mistakes and get over their current mindset issues, it's not going to do any good. So long as they are in this mode where they don't even want to make proper RPGs any more and keep trying to pander to the mainstream masses and find these "perfect hybrid" games that they'll never find, it's like talking to a brick wall.

This is kind of a interesting standpoint. People were generally annoyed with the Mako in ME1, so in ME2, it was cut out and replaced with the scanning system, which was another 'meh' from the fans. In other words, they listened to the fans, but if they would only have done that (ie, cut out the Mako and the exploring) and not replacing it with something, they would have taken flak for that instead for making the sequel dull.

I rather think of it as 'bad idea' replaced by 'bad idea' which to me seems to indicate that Bioware is more or less unlucky in their assumptions of what might actually be recieved positively.

Disclaimer: I didn't mind the Mako personally, but a lot of people were unhappy with it.

[riccaborto]

Think of the last 3 games: DA2, ME3, TOR...

Do you really think BioWare listened to us?

[Terror_K]

Grizzly46 wrote...

This is kind of a interesting standpoint. People were generally annoyed with the Mako in ME1, so in ME2, it was cut out and replaced with the scanning system, which was another 'meh' from the fans. In other words, they listened to the fans, but if they would only have done that (ie, cut out the Mako and the exploring) and not replacing it with something, they would have taken flak for that instead for making the sequel dull.

I rather think of it as 'bad idea' replaced by 'bad idea' which to me seems to indicate that Bioware is more or less unlucky in their assumptions of what might actually be recieved positively.

Disclaimer: I didn't mind the Mako personally, but a lot of people were unhappy with it.

BioWare's problem in this regard is that they don't tend to really listen to fans so much as hear them, if you follow me? Fans will say, "this sucks because of these reasons" or "we want this because of these reasons" and BioWare will only see the "this sucks" or "we want this" without delving into the reasons enough. They tend to take everything at face value and then either jam it in or eliminate it without seeming to understand the true issue.

For a few examples, fans said in the wake of ME2 that they wanted a ME2 art book along the lines of the original The Art of Mass Effect book. What fans clearly wanted was a large book with lots of new art that was actually new, but instead what BioWare gave us was a giant remake of the ME2 CE Art Book. All they seemed to see was, "we want a full-sized ME2 art book" but completely failed to acknowledge what fans really meant.

The Mako is another case, where most fans came to the conclusion it was the terrain and samey locations at fault rather than the vehicle itself, so BioWare removed the whole thing. Then eventually replaced it with a stupid vehicle most people hated because it seemed silly, gamey/gimmicky and made of tissue paper. Overall ME2 as a whole was actually filled with elements just being outright culled and watered down when they should have been fixed.

For a more recent example, people said they wanted to be able to have their Shepard express themselves more emotionally in ME3. What players meant was that they wanted to be able to choose to express their various Shepards in different ways emotionally, but what we got in the end was a Shepard who had emotions forced on them and who automatically expressed themselves emotionally with no player input at all. This ended up annoying fans because they didn't get what they wanted, and instead got something they had no control over telling them how their Shepard is rather than letting them express their Shepard themselves.

I've learned that often with BioWare lately it's a case of, "be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it."

On top of that, too often BioWare no longer ask, "what's best for this game?" but instead just ask, "what's going to be more profitable and get more players for this game." These aren't the same thing.

Modifié par Terror_K, 30 août 2012 - 07:06 .

[Leoroc]

The three teams for DA, ME, & TOR are practically different companies. I do feel like the DA team has and is listening to us. Everything I know of DA3 I like so far.

TOR, well TOR is shoving all comments and complaints about lack of promised same gender romance into one thread and are blatantly ignoring it.