182 réponses à ce sujet

[SerTabris]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I felt each of the romances I was able to do had its cute moments (I've never done the Anders's romance, he creeps me out), but compared to the connection I felt in the tight amount of time (1 year in Origins as opposed to 10 years in DA2) the romances felt like "DA-light". I feel that there should have been more interaction rather than 'the same amount' since the time frame is so much longer.

And I'm not talking sex scenes or even a party camp, but it would have been nice to be able to hop over to the Hanged man for a kiss or a game of cards with Isabela, or take her out 'shopping' (a fade to black with the suggestion of a shopping trip would have been fine). Or go to Fenris' mansion and spend the day cleaning the damn thing because...dude...it never seemed to get picked up the entire time there! No way would my Hawke's have visited a slob like that. Or a scene where you show Merrill around the city to help her get more comfortable in Kirkwall (and not so prone to get lost). Any of this would have helped me connect more with the characters, doing NORMAL people things instead of running around with them always fighting, and the convos being disjointed like they were.

Some of this would be good for just expanded party interaction. I think for a scene like that, it should be always accessible, but with variations depending on your relationship with the character (to avoid weirdness like Liara's 'friend' dialogue in ME3).  Your example in particular made me think of that; I don't even like Fenris that well (I played as a mage, so we didn't exactly get on), but I'd still be willing to help finally clean up that mansion.  Or have Orana do it. "No, I don't really need another servant in my house. Fenris, on the other hand..."

[Crimson Moon]

Delete

Modifié par Crimson Moon, 04 septembre 2012 - 01:29 .

[CuriousArtemis]

esper wrote...

But that is very much in line with what he says in best served cold.  Just in best served cold he is also ashamed, to have been captured and in Mota he was afraid because it was Hawke that are captured.

Okay but I am not saying he should have swooned in his beloved's arms or anything  More like some ACKNOWLEDGMENT of the romance should have been evident. Example: Fenris admits he's embarrassed to have been caught; sarcastic Hawke quips that he should have known s/he would come to resuce him *wink*; Fenris rolls his eyes or some such thing.

I think many times the lack of reaction is more on Hawke's side than on the LI's; MOTA tried to fix this by including Hawke in the banter.

[cowoline]

1. In DAII there were some things I prefer about Anders' romance. His dialouge changes more than any one elses, when he is in love with you. At least compared to Fenris'. Fenris says the same things with the exception of the heartoption in the end of the conversation. Anders' changes a lot more, like when you accept Dissent. I would like more of that for every character.

2. And I agree with those who wants the ability to kiss out LI, when we want! Love it when the mabari gives a jealous whine in DAO.

3.  Make the protagonist respond dammit! "Oh, I was so worried about you love.:wub:" Hawke: stoneface!<_<

4. wtf happened to gifts from your LI? Anders:"Perhaps one day I can return one as meaningful." waited... waited... waited... Chantry go BOOM! Damn it Anders, where is my kitten?

[Sylvanpyxie]

@Sylvanpyxie .. after reading your Sebastian posts I did romance him on my last playthrough. Was cute!

Aw. I hope you enjoyed it. Sebastian is really quite a great character (if a little unfinished) if you look hard enough, regardless of if he's romanced or not. You just need to be able to see what's hidden beneath the preaching.

[Mello]

cowoline wrote...

1. In DAII there were some things I prefer about Anders' romance. His dialouge changes more than any one elses, when he is in love with you. At least compared to Fenris'. Fenris says the same things with the exception of the heartoption in the end of the conversation. Anders' changes a lot more, like when you accept Dissent. I would like more of that for every character.

2. And I agree with those who wants the ability to kiss out LI, when we want! Love it when the mabari gives a jealous whine in DAO.

3.  Make the protagonist respond dammit! "Oh, I was so worried about you love.:wub:" Hawke: stoneface!<_<

4. wtf happened to gifts from your LI? Anders:"Perhaps one day I can return one as meaningful." waited... waited... waited... Chantry go BOOM! Damn it Anders, where is my kitten?

A flower would have been nice, but no... starting a war would be much more romantic, damn you Anders. 

[sylvanaerie]

SerTabris wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I felt each of the romances I was able to do had its cute moments (I've never done the Anders's romance, he creeps me out), but compared to the connection I felt in the tight amount of time (1 year in Origins as opposed to 10 years in DA2) the romances felt like "DA-light". I feel that there should have been more interaction rather than 'the same amount' since the time frame is so much longer.

And I'm not talking sex scenes or even a party camp, but it would have been nice to be able to hop over to the Hanged man for a kiss or a game of cards with Isabela, or take her out 'shopping' (a fade to black with the suggestion of a shopping trip would have been fine). Or go to Fenris' mansion and spend the day cleaning the damn thing because...dude...it never seemed to get picked up the entire time there! No way would my Hawke's have visited a slob like that. Or a scene where you show Merrill around the city to help her get more comfortable in Kirkwall (and not so prone to get lost). Any of this would have helped me connect more with the characters, doing NORMAL people things instead of running around with them always fighting, and the convos being disjointed like they were.

Some of this would be good for just expanded party interaction. I think for a scene like that, it should be always accessible, but with variations depending on your relationship with the character (to avoid weirdness like Liara's 'friend' dialogue in ME3).  Your example in particular made me think of that; I don't even like Fenris that well (I played as a mage, so we didn't exactly get on), but I'd still be willing to help finally clean up that mansion.  Or have Orana do it. "No, I don't really need another servant in my house. Fenris, on the other hand..."

They did try, but there was too little of that with most of the companions.  I feel they pulled it off well enough with Aveline and Varric, but they weren't romanceable (though it was fun to flirt with an oblivious Aveline), and to a lesser degree Isabela had some good dialogue that wasn't all tied up in some obsession (though a lot of her dialogues were sexual in nature--so she loses points for that).  Anders and Fenris sadly came off as 'one note charlies' with "mage this, templars that, slavery, freedom, manifesto blah blah blah".  After a few playthroughs I found myself hitting the spacebar to race through the dialogues that bored me which was just about everything non romanced Fenris said and all of Anders's crap.

[Renmiri1]

[quote]LolaLei wrote...

[quote]Renmiri1 wrote...

[quote]Parmida wrote...
Ya, that bugged me a lot. Where is my Hawke's kiss dammit! The worst part is that there is a kiss scene but you only get that if Anders decides to commit suicide after helping you side with templars 

As for timing, Anders romance is perfect IMHO, Crush on year one, move in on year 3, he goes wacko on year 7. Gives you time to "be happy for a while" and enjoy your LI on Act 2. Fenris and Sebastian romances are on Act 3 mostly so they feel  so rushed!! 

[/quote]

Huh? Why didn't I know about this? Does anyone have a video of it I can watch??

[/quote]
Certainly!!

[AbsoluteApril]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Parmida wrote...
Ya, that bugged me a lot. Where is my Hawke's kiss dammit! The worst part is that there is a kiss scene but you only get that if Anders decides to commit suicide after helping you side with templars 

As for timing, Anders romance is perfect IMHO, Crush on year one, move in on year 3, he goes wacko on year 7. Gives you time to "be happy for a while" and enjoy your LI on Act 2. Fenris and Sebastian romances are on Act 3 mostly so they feel  so rushed!! 

Huh? Why didn't I know about this? Does anyone have a video of it I can watch??

woo that other one posted is 40min! here's one that gets right to the scene with the kiss

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 30 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[berelinde]

Overall, I was satisfied with Anders's romance in DA2. It was heinously corny, but that was part of its charm. It does seem as if he's trying too hard, trotting out every ridiculous line he has ever heard, but as he says himself, he has never been in love before. He wants everything to be perfect, and with no personal experience to fall back upon, he goes overboard. Hawke just rocks his world that much. As Parmida said, the timing really works. Hawke and Anders had a three-year honeymoon, and that's really sweet. As for what happens in year 7, yes, he does withdraw from the relationship, but that's perfectly natural behavior, considering his plans. He has not lost his protective attitude toward Hawke, and by pushing him or her away, he hopes to spare him or her some pain. He is misguided, but he is not the first one to behave that way. He still loves Hawke very much, but he is still positive that he will break his or her heart.

Fenris's romance left me cold. I could never convince myself that he cared about Hawke at all. The attration seemed to be purely physical, without the emotional investment that would justify Fenris's sudden departure or waiting in solitude. To me, it seemed like drunken hate sex followed by a walk of shame and three years of silence and an inadequate apology. I know what it was supposed to be like. It was supposed to be romantic. There was supposed to be bad boy magnetism, passion, overwhelming emotion, flight, and joyous reconcilliation, but the logic center in my brain tells me that bad boys don't change. So, despite good intentions, that kinda reduces the whole thing to a pair of booty calls. One night stands happen, sometimes unintentionally. Waiting three years for that bad boy to come back is probably not healthy. Sorry Fenris fans. I've tried to put my misgivings aside and enjoy it as a fantasy romance, but if I'm going to suspend disbelief on that one, I'm going to need a bigger crane.

Isabela, on the other hand, totally worked for me. She never pretended to be anything she was not, and everything, including her Act 3 reconciliation, felt genuine. When she left Hawke in Act 2, it was very obvious that it was her fear of attachment that drove her away. She is very honest and open about that. When she comes back in Act 3, she doesn't claim to have lost her fears. They're still there, front and center, but her admission that her feelings for Hawke won't go away no matter what she does makes her decision to try to overcome her fears perfectly believable. The romance was fun, with a little bit of sweetness, a touch of disappointment, and a lot of humor.

I've never really done the Merrill romance. I love her to bits, but my Hawkes tend to regard her as a little sister, and that doesn't lend itself to romance.

Modifié par berelinde, 30 août 2012 - 02:51 .

[Ghost_Nappa]

Wow, no is going to say it? I guess I will.

Sex scenes. I'm not talking porno staged from the Witcher or the two mannikins humping ackwardly in Origins. Just a tasteful, doesnt have to be fully detailed scene of two adults consenting.

I mean it can't be that hard to put it in a game that is rated Mature for adults...I mean hell the love scene for Liara, obviously a pet favorite, was done well in ME3. Yes it came off cheesy to some, but to me it felt like watching ME1 again. Which really didn't have me hollering like a pervert...well maybe a fistbump while shouting "Hah it was tasteful!"

Hell I was hoping for scenes from out a window, with Fenris and Hawke, with some giggling and Arcaanum being spoken in a husky manner.

In summary I would like to see tasteful erotic/romantic adult sex scenes that vary from LI to LI.

[berelinde]

Oh, yeah, D3 wants.

Since 2 out of the four DA2 romances worked for me so well, I have no reason to think that DA3's would not. I am looking forward to the ability to talk to the lover outside scripted conversations, but apart from that, I'm playing it by ear. At this point, my enthusiasm for DA3 is not that high for a number of reasons, so I'm not really thinking about the romances too much.

[Renmiri1]

On sex and videogames
I was ok with the "no sex" in DA2 (compared to DAO)  because to me the emotional content was very well done. To me holding hands, hugs and a kiss with tenderness and affection already fuel my headcanon enough to feel the romance. 

And having had a Second Life presence for years, I don't really see anything in DA or ME as ""sex". The current games still have a long way to go to catch up with SL sex animations and poseballs..



@berelinde: 100% agreed with you on all. The only way Fenris romance worked for me was to pretend his apology was given a week later, not 3 years later! Sebastian romance is also cute but I had to mentally tune out all his preachiness first. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 30 août 2012 - 02:27 .

[berelinde]

Sebastian would be OK for me if it was as developed as the other romances. The gender requirement is off-putting, but the real hurdle is the requirement that Hawke abstain from flirting with anyone else. I like the character, but if my Hawke is going to avoid flirting with anybody else, there had better be more to look forward to than a chaste marriage. Also, his DLC status and the fact that nobody really recognizes the romance is a bit of a letdown.

It seems to me as if Sebastian was an experiment.

[Dwarva]

berelinde wrote...

Sebastian would be OK for me if it was as developed as the other romances. The gender requirement is off-putting, but the real hurdle is the requirement that Hawke abstain from flirting with anyone else. I like the character, but if my Hawke is going to avoid flirting with anybody else, there had better be more to look forward to than a chaste marriage. Also, his DLC status and the fact that nobody really recognizes the romance is a bit of a letdown.

It seems to me as if Sebastian was an experiment.

I admit I've never actually completed it but the thing that puts me off (even though it's a very small thing) is that Varric doesn't mention Sebastian never left your side. Leaving me wondering if he buggered off...lol.

[berelinde]

^^ Yes, that's what I was talking about. I do roll female Hawkes periodically, but the lack of acknowledgment from Varric, Isabela, Leandra, and Gamlen somehow makes it less satisfying. As you say, it's a small thing, but the relationships are made up of small things.

Edit: Also, keeping Sebastian is extremely unlikely in my game because of the Last Straw. I've only had one templar-siding Hawke that killed Anders out of mercy. The rest would tell Sebastian not to let the door hit him in the donkey.

Modifié par berelinde, 30 août 2012 - 05:03 .

[Amirit]

berelinde wrote...

Sebastian would be OK for me if it was as developed as the other romances. The gender requirement is off-putting, but the real hurdle is the requirement that Hawke abstain from flirting with anyone else.

It is bugged, actually, and you can flirt and even have full romance with Fenris and Sebastian (at least rival). So, go ahead.

Modifié par Amirit, 30 août 2012 - 04:35 .

[berelinde]

Er... that would mean romancing Fenris. That's something I have not yet been able to do, despite six separate attempts. I'm OK up until the part where Fenris leaves, but there's no going back from that.

[coldwetn0se]

Have never had a problem with Fenris leaving, but then I tend to RP Hawkes that either drown their sorrows for a bit (imagine them hanging with Varric a lot), or they go to the Blooming Rose, cuz...ya know...they roll like that! Besides, he continues to wear the favors, and I find meaning in that.

Once Legacy came out, that even added more content to the Fenris/Hawke separation, and I always play Legacy either right before the Arishok, or even better, right at the beginning of Act. 3.

Besides, the time gaps I find, affect ALL the relationships even the ones (like Merrill and Anders) who don't seem to bug out for a while. The disconnect is still present. Not so much the fault of the romances, but in the time gaps and lack of extra LI content. So yes, more LI specific banter, more dialogue added and INITIATED by the PC's LI, and a bit more "steam" in the sex scene.

[CuriousArtemis]

I never had a problem with Fenris leaving either. My Hawke's are always patient and willing to let him think things through ... yes, even for three years (because we're forced to wait three years; I think three months or hell, I'll be generous, half a year, would have been more realistic). Or at least I'd want mention of how Fenris and Hawke dealt with the physical separation for three years. I assumed they remained close, that Fenris went with Hawke everywhere, and that this was the one thing Hawke DIDN'T tease him about - that one night they had together (I always play sarcastic Hawke's xD).

Do note that my Hawke's are sort of like, um, my ideal guy? They're hot and manly and patient and sweet and blah blah blah *snorts at self* So they treat Fenris very preciously. Whereas if it were me, I'd be like, Oh no you DIDn'T! And totally never talk to him (Fenris) again xD

About sex scenes; I'd prefer not to have them; when I want sex scenes I read novels or watch porn xD But I know some people really liked them in DA:O. Like someone else said, I'd rather more "moments of intimacy" than straight up sex. Hand holding, more chats, etc.

[berelinde]

I'm with moto on the "moments of intimacy" thing. That's what is lacking, I think. No, the game is not a dating sim, but a little hand-holding or thoughtfulness makes a lot of difference.

As for the sex scenes, I could go either way. No pun intended. I don't need to see bumpin' uglies, but it doesn't disturb me, either. If there are sex scenes, I'd prefer to avoid undie grinding. The way DA2 handles the sex scenes was fine. I particularly liked the Anders one, but not necessarily for the reason you'd think, given my stated preferences. Yeah, it was romantic and perfect for the character, but the shift of focus from the couple to the candle made me giggle. It reminded me of '80s prime-time love scenes, where the couple would be getting busy and the camera would shift to focus on a lamp before anybody's clothes started coming off. Nostalgia is fun.

[Renmiri1]

berelinde wrote...

Er... that would mean romancing Fenris. That's something I have not yet been able to do, despite six separate attempts. I'm OK up until the part where Fenris leaves, but there's no going back from that.

Romance Anders after Fenris leaves you. The party banter later is funny on several ocasions and Anders is totally cool with it, he still adores you 

[Randomjack]

As with pretty much any Bioware party interaction/romance, I liked it, but it could always stand to have more.

As in more conversations, more options, more development and depth.

I love Merrill dearly...in fact she's probably my favorite LI in any of the games.....however, I'd like the option to talk to her more than once every two years (in Kirkwall time). While I'm not generally an Origins nostalgic, that was an example of the right amount of character development. It took genuine time and effort to romance somebody, and you really got to know them along the way.

Another thing for bioware games in general - please, let's not do the whole "confess your love right before the final battle, then roll credits" pattern. It's a good system, but its become too predictable. I would rather the romances matured earlier in the game, and you got to spend longer actually being in a relationship as opposed to courting. That's one thing I liked in ME3 (counteracted by a lack of conversations, sadly) - since your LI could have been established in the last game, you got to play at a different stage.

[Renmiri1]

Ya, I loved Anders romance because you could play as established romance but outside of the DLC there wasn't a lot of content for it. Same for Alistair, if you "cheat" and get the feastday gifts you can get him to declare love as soon as you get Bodham in your camp .. but then you get all the dialog at once and nothing after -.-

[LolaLei]

The thing I did like about Anders, was that it was clear that he fancied Hawke right from the start, even if you didn't flirt with him he would try to flirt with you. I get the impression that he holds a torch for Hawke even if you romance someone else. Kinda like Kaidan with female Shepard in ME1, he drops hints constantly that he likes her right from the start, even if you show no interest. Which I find really sweet.