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Stalin is relevant to this thread because synthesis.
Discuss.
Modifié par Rubios, 30 août 2012 - 04:39 .
It's official, BioWare are trying to make me laugh.
Débuté par
The Angry One
, août 29 2012 12:45
#401
Guest_Rubios_*
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:37
Guest_Rubios_*
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Stalin is relevant to this thread because synthesis.
Discuss.
Retour en haut
#402
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:37
Cainne Chapel
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Apocaleepse360 wrote...
It is really amusing. If Walters and Hudson want to continue to mess up the Mass Effect story, then let them. I'm never giving a penny to them and their EA overlords if Bioware got rid of EA, Hudson and Walters, they'd have my faith and support once again.
So they made an ending you didn't like.
But why get rid of them when they made2 other games you DID like.
Its not like Hudson just suddenly came into the forefront for ME3, he's been one of the guys behind the series since its inception, so what if he goofed in your eyes on the ending.
As for Walters, same thing, if not for him we wouldnt have some of our favorite characters in the game, and its not like he wrote the game by himself.
Do you realize ME1 through 3 were TEAM efforts? Youc ant just blame all the bad on 2 guys, especially two guys who originally made the game you claim to enjoy so much.
Besides how is Bioware going to "get rid" of EA? Do you not realize they are a DIVISION of EA now and have been since 2008? Come on man, it seems like you are REALLY reaching on your complaints.
let me guess, Drew K is a godsend in the writing dept, to you too isnt he?
Just because you dont like where the story ended, doesnt mean you need to get rid of the people who helped create the franchise in the first place. Being upset is fine, calling for them to lose their jobs is just a bit much
#403
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:37
RiouHotaru
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No, because the Leviathan's mind-control isn't THAT good.
#404
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:39
Thaa_solon
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RiouHotaru wrote...
No, because the Leviathan's mind-control isn't THAT good.
Well not so good because they MIND CONTROLLED the entire galaxy at one point
Sorry your argument is INVALID
#405
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:39
Cainne Chapel
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Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
I'm going to point this out again, because people are one again abusing the word:
The Leviathans not using their mind-control to stop their thralls from building synthetics is NOT a plot-hole. It means that their mind-control powers aren't as awesome as you apparently think they are. It's likely the same reason they don't try to think Reapers to death constantly, their power has a limit.
It's not bad writing that they didn't prevent the lesser races from building machines, it's a defined flaw of the characters.
If the levithans had the mental mind power to sudue all the species IN THE GALAXY o do their bidding to pay tribute, then why not force them to not build synthetics.
This becomes a plothole and therefore makes the plot/story even more retarded than it was before.
It's not a plothole. That they didn't subdue all the other species with their mental abilities, then it's evidence their powers are NOT absolute. Your question is answered by your own question:
"Why didn't they use their mind powers to stop the lesser races from building machines?"
"Because they couldn't use their mind powers to stop them."
Because the lesser species are immune to mind control?
If the lesser species have so low IQ that they couldn't be mind control'd, then HOW did they construct synthetic beings able to destroy their creators?
It's still a PLOTHOLE!
Its not a plothole. I would imagine they didnt control ALL the species ALL the time, you even see that during the game in regards to the lab scene. Besides if ALL you did was CONTROL all the population.. whats the point of them tributing you? You'd just be tributing yourself.
#406
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:41
RiouHotaru
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Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
No, because the Leviathan's mind-control isn't THAT good.
Well not so good because they MIND CONTROLLED the entire galaxy at one point
Sorry your argument is INVALID
No they didn't, all they said was that they had all the lesser races serving them as thralls and giving them tribute.
At NO point do they mention mind-controlling everyone.
#407
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:42
Thaa_solon
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Cainne Chapel wrote...
Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
I'm going to point this out again, because people are one again abusing the word:
The Leviathans not using their mind-control to stop their thralls from building synthetics is NOT a plot-hole. It means that their mind-control powers aren't as awesome as you apparently think they are. It's likely the same reason they don't try to think Reapers to death constantly, their power has a limit.
It's not bad writing that they didn't prevent the lesser races from building machines, it's a defined flaw of the characters.
If the levithans had the mental mind power to sudue all the species IN THE GALAXY o do their bidding to pay tribute, then why not force them to not build synthetics.
This becomes a plothole and therefore makes the plot/story even more retarded than it was before.
It's not a plothole. That they didn't subdue all the other species with their mental abilities, then it's evidence their powers are NOT absolute. Your question is answered by your own question:
"Why didn't they use their mind powers to stop the lesser races from building machines?"
"Because they couldn't use their mind powers to stop them."
Because the lesser species are immune to mind control?
If the lesser species have so low IQ that they couldn't be mind control'd, then HOW did they construct synthetic beings able to destroy their creators?
It's still a PLOTHOLE!
Its not a plothole. I would imagine they didnt control ALL the species ALL the time, you even see that during the game in regards to the lab scene. Besides if ALL you did was CONTROL all the population.. whats the point of them tributing you? You'd just be tributing yourself.
Why do all the labor when the species of the galaxy can do it for you
#408
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:43
Thaa_solon
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RiouHotaru wrote...
Thaa_solon wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
No, because the Leviathan's mind-control isn't THAT good.
Well not so good because they MIND CONTROLLED the entire galaxy at one point
Sorry your argument is INVALID
No they didn't, all they said was that they had all the lesser races serving them as thralls and giving them tribute.
At NO point do they mention mind-controlling everyone.
Indeed
#409
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:43
saracen16
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*Cracks knuckles* Time for me to enter the fray.
[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Leviathan! Hooray! Yeah I just couldn't stay away and had to check out the videos.
Though I must admit it is nice of them to attempt to amuse me so much.
I mean, it's hard work making such an incredibly dumb plot that my only reaction is giggling of the 1st order.[/quote]
Ah, maaaze was right: your superinflated ego knows no limits.
But w/e. Let the butthurt flow through you.
[quote]So yes, Leviathan. It seems that BioWare has been paying attention to the Catalyst apologists of late, in their latest attempt to defend it's actions.[/quote]I don't think the span of a few weeks would shape the story of the DLC, which provides context to what the Catalyst's programming was meant to do, places a face on its creators, and also rests the blame squarely on the Leviathans for their haughty oversight: "a mandate to preserve life at any cost." Arguing against its actions is moot, but finding a solution to the Reaper cycles isn't.
[quote]Too bad that by doing so, they've made the Catalyst a liar (again), crazy or possibly both. It's especially hilarious when the Catalyst claims it was designed to make peace with synthetics, immediately admits that Leviathan's explanation (that it was designed to preserve life at all costs) is true, then repeats it's original claim shortly after.[/quote]Actually, they are: the Leviathans built the Catalyst to preserve life at any cost in response to the problem that synthetics were wiping out or rebelling against their organic creators (i.e. make peace). The Leviathans confirmed that they were the ones who made the mistake ("it betrayed us"), while the Catalyst's actions weren't, but rather simply a result of its intended programming, hence it can not be a liar. The Catalyst "betrayed" them and no word or warning was given when the slaughter was joined. Since it does not fall towards the same conventions of sanity or insanity that we do, it can not be, therefore, insane.
[quopte]Hey, BioWare. Either you intentionally made the Catalyst a lunatic, or you don't realise that these two things aren't the same![/quote]
...or you're just being nitpicky. I'd say you're being nitpicky. Very very nitpicky.
[quote]Also, too bad that they've gone and made the entire debate as to the Catalyst's responsibility irrelevant. Think about it. Either the Catalyst betrayed it's creator's directives, in which case it's logic is toast and it can't be trusted or it's following the directives of creators who are confirmed to be evil control freak sociopaths in which case their logic which it follows is toast and it can't be trusted.[/quote]Pffft, says you, trying to shut out any debate whatsoever with your headcanon. The Leviathans themselves mentioned that they didn't want the races that they cared for dying out and stopping the flow of tribute that they received from the synthetics that they created. They created the Catalyst as a solution to bring peace to organics and synthetics, to preserve all life at any cost. To bring peace is to preserve life. Because of the "at any cost" clause in the Catalyst's programming, it's clear that the blame lies with the Leviathans, who did not realize their error until it was too late.
[quote]So yeah, thanks BioWare. The Catalyst is either a psychopath or the tool of psychopaths. Weren't you trying to apologise for it again? You're doing it wrong![/quote]
So, I suppose everyone you disagree with is also a psychopath, including the Leviathans. A psychopath is defined as a deviant within his or her own society. The problem the Leviathans faced had to be dire enough that they were unable to control the desires of organic species to advance (i.e. eventually create synthetics like VI's and AI's). At the time, the mandate the Leviathans imposed on the Catalyst would have been considered the best solution. Unfortunately, since they were not a "lesser race", they did not believe that they were part of the Catalyst's problem.
[quote]Also, thanks for confirming the creators were not only derps, but super grandmaster derps. "We saw that the lesser species who we controlled made machines that destroyed them. So instead of telling the remaining lesser species to knock it off or else we... decided to do exactly what they did." Uhuh.[/quote]
You don't think they tried that? They weren't able to protect the "lesser species" from themselves.
[quote]And nice explanation for your defeat there, Leviathans. You can usurp control of Reaper minions and EMP bomb Sovereign class ships to death... but you couldn't defeat the Catalyst's information gathering pawns. Yeah, sure. Whatever.[/quote]
An ARMY of pawns. Pay attention.
[quote]In any case, thank you BioWare for a few minutes of youtube entertainment. It brightened my day.[/quote]
You give yourself too much credit for someone who has been discredited on these boards numerous times.
You don't need me to remind you of these occurrences, do you?
[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Leviathan! Hooray! Yeah I just couldn't stay away and had to check out the videos.
Though I must admit it is nice of them to attempt to amuse me so much.
I mean, it's hard work making such an incredibly dumb plot that my only reaction is giggling of the 1st order.[/quote]
Ah, maaaze was right: your superinflated ego knows no limits.
But w/e. Let the butthurt flow through you.
[quote]So yes, Leviathan. It seems that BioWare has been paying attention to the Catalyst apologists of late, in their latest attempt to defend it's actions.[/quote]I don't think the span of a few weeks would shape the story of the DLC, which provides context to what the Catalyst's programming was meant to do, places a face on its creators, and also rests the blame squarely on the Leviathans for their haughty oversight: "a mandate to preserve life at any cost." Arguing against its actions is moot, but finding a solution to the Reaper cycles isn't.
[quote]Too bad that by doing so, they've made the Catalyst a liar (again), crazy or possibly both. It's especially hilarious when the Catalyst claims it was designed to make peace with synthetics, immediately admits that Leviathan's explanation (that it was designed to preserve life at all costs) is true, then repeats it's original claim shortly after.[/quote]Actually, they are: the Leviathans built the Catalyst to preserve life at any cost in response to the problem that synthetics were wiping out or rebelling against their organic creators (i.e. make peace). The Leviathans confirmed that they were the ones who made the mistake ("it betrayed us"), while the Catalyst's actions weren't, but rather simply a result of its intended programming, hence it can not be a liar. The Catalyst "betrayed" them and no word or warning was given when the slaughter was joined. Since it does not fall towards the same conventions of sanity or insanity that we do, it can not be, therefore, insane.
[quopte]Hey, BioWare. Either you intentionally made the Catalyst a lunatic, or you don't realise that these two things aren't the same![/quote]
...or you're just being nitpicky. I'd say you're being nitpicky. Very very nitpicky.
[quote]Also, too bad that they've gone and made the entire debate as to the Catalyst's responsibility irrelevant. Think about it. Either the Catalyst betrayed it's creator's directives, in which case it's logic is toast and it can't be trusted or it's following the directives of creators who are confirmed to be evil control freak sociopaths in which case their logic which it follows is toast and it can't be trusted.[/quote]Pffft, says you, trying to shut out any debate whatsoever with your headcanon. The Leviathans themselves mentioned that they didn't want the races that they cared for dying out and stopping the flow of tribute that they received from the synthetics that they created. They created the Catalyst as a solution to bring peace to organics and synthetics, to preserve all life at any cost. To bring peace is to preserve life. Because of the "at any cost" clause in the Catalyst's programming, it's clear that the blame lies with the Leviathans, who did not realize their error until it was too late.
[quote]So yeah, thanks BioWare. The Catalyst is either a psychopath or the tool of psychopaths. Weren't you trying to apologise for it again? You're doing it wrong![/quote]
So, I suppose everyone you disagree with is also a psychopath, including the Leviathans. A psychopath is defined as a deviant within his or her own society. The problem the Leviathans faced had to be dire enough that they were unable to control the desires of organic species to advance (i.e. eventually create synthetics like VI's and AI's). At the time, the mandate the Leviathans imposed on the Catalyst would have been considered the best solution. Unfortunately, since they were not a "lesser race", they did not believe that they were part of the Catalyst's problem.
[quote]Also, thanks for confirming the creators were not only derps, but super grandmaster derps. "We saw that the lesser species who we controlled made machines that destroyed them. So instead of telling the remaining lesser species to knock it off or else we... decided to do exactly what they did." Uhuh.[/quote]
You don't think they tried that? They weren't able to protect the "lesser species" from themselves.
[quote]And nice explanation for your defeat there, Leviathans. You can usurp control of Reaper minions and EMP bomb Sovereign class ships to death... but you couldn't defeat the Catalyst's information gathering pawns. Yeah, sure. Whatever.[/quote]
An ARMY of pawns. Pay attention.
[quote]In any case, thank you BioWare for a few minutes of youtube entertainment. It brightened my day.[/quote]
You give yourself too much credit for someone who has been discredited on these boards numerous times.
You don't need me to remind you of these occurrences, do you?
Modifié par saracen16, 30 août 2012 - 05:18 .
#410
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:44
Thaa_solon
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All lesser races means, all races besides "Leviathan" race
#411
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:46
skiadopsendow
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Maybe they underestimated one of these races like they did with the "intelligence"
Or they didnt want to take action and see what happens, to study and such things
Or they didnt want to take action and see what happens, to study and such things
Modifié par skiadopsendow, 30 août 2012 - 04:48 .
#412
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:47
RiouHotaru
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What's most amusing are the rather interesting parallels between the Leviathan Empire and the Prothean Empire, and how angry Javik is at the Leviathans. Amusing because the actions of his race very closely mirror those of the squids.
#413
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:47
Thaa_solon
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skiadopsendow wrote...
Maybe they underestimated one of these races like they did with the "intelligence"
Ah yes "intelligence", we have dismissed that claim.
#414
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:48
Thaa_solon
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RiouHotaru wrote...
What's most amusing are the rather interesting parallels between the Leviathan Empire and the Prothean Empire, and how angry Javik is at the Leviathans. Amusing because the actions of his race very closely mirror those of the squids.
Agreed
#415
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:53
JPR1964
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lesser species : remind me something really bad...
That's reeks, as usual...
JPR out!
That's reeks, as usual...
JPR out!
#416
Posté 30 août 2012 - 04:56
Thaa_solon
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JPR1964 wrote...
lesser species : remind me something really bad...
That's reeks, as usual...
JPR out!
How do you think of BW now:devil:
At one point the "leviathans" were the master race
#417
Posté 30 août 2012 - 05:01
LeandroBraz
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The Angry One wrote...
Leviathan! Hooray! Yeah I just couldn't stay away and had to check out the videos.
Stopped here. Seeing videos =/= from actually playing, so yeah, your opinion is.. irrelevant..
#418
Posté 30 août 2012 - 05:03
The Charnel Expanse
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The solipsism is strong with this one.
#419
Posté 30 août 2012 - 05:13
saracen16
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RiouHotaru wrote...
No, because the Leviathan's mind-control isn't THAT good.
Indeed. They needed the fragments to exert their control.
#420
Posté 30 août 2012 - 05:51
durasteel
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Not un-pleasable, just displeased. I think the willingness to provide specifics and details in well-reasoned, polite, and sincere feedback and criticism makes the community pretty awesome, actually. It is unfortunate that BioWare has decided to dismiss the overwhelming consensus that the ending needed a complete overhaul.BiO_MaN wrote...
I feel sorry for Bioware, having such an un-pleasable community.
#421
Posté 30 août 2012 - 06:14
Dragoonlordz
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I enjoy the fact TAO thinks she matters enough that she thinks Bioware made anything for 'her' to be or do anything. To make her laugh, her cry or her whine. Here's a secret I will let you in on, they did not and you as an individual was not on their mind when they either made the game or the DLC. They did not create anything to make you laugh, they did not make the game for 'you' at all. You just so happen to be a single person in millions who decided to buy the game they wanted to make and hoped people would enjoy.
Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 août 2012 - 06:15 .
#422
Posté 30 août 2012 - 06:16
legion999
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LeandroBraz wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Leviathan! Hooray! Yeah I just couldn't stay away and had to check out the videos.
Stopped here. Seeing videos =/= from actually playing, so yeah, your opinion is.. irrelevant..
What illogic is that? How does that change the information you get?
#423
Posté 30 août 2012 - 06:17
comrade gando
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This is what happens when the basis of a story is built on plotholes and ontrivances. Artists starve.
#425
Posté 30 août 2012 - 06:19
Thaa_solon
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''comrade gando wrote...
This is what happens when the basis of a story is built on plotholes and ontrivances. Artists starve.
Oh yeah but somehow the ART can flourish into infiniiiiiiityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.................
