509 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

Kel Riever wrote...

Right, the problem is the OP, not at all that the endings totally suck or that Leviathan is yet another missed opportunity to do something correctly.

Way to divert.

Does it offend you that I disagree vehemently with the OP?

[Catroi]

saracen16 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Right, the problem is the OP, not at all that the endings totally suck or that Leviathan is yet another missed opportunity to do something correctly.

Way to divert.

Does it offend you that I disagree vehemently with the OP?

you don't need to be vehement


pfiooou been a long time since I didn't post, like what? 4 months? And the ending is still a sh*thole

[Mazebook]

XqctaX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Ah, maaaze was right:

stopped reading.

I am gaining new powers everday;).

But seriously...has the OP finally enlightend us of what contradictions he/she meant?
still have not figured this out.

[saracen16]

maaaze wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Ah, maaaze was right:

stopped reading.

I am gaining new powers everday;).

But seriously...has the OP finally enlightend us of what contradictions he/she meant?
still have not figured this out.

Nor will she. With TAO, it's "I'm right and you're wrong". She doesn't see the need to explain herself to you. 

[Skyrix]

I was really enjoying the DLC. It was actually a lot of fun. Definitely an above-average Mass Effect mission. It did cool things I haven't seen before in Mass Effect and it was well worth the money.

Then I met with the leviathan, and he brought up ME3's ending. I was immediately reminded of how much I really hated that ending, and how it destroyed the community. It completely ruined the mood. It felt like Bioware was trying once AGAIN to get me to like it. The ending is still such a tender wound, and they had to go and open it back up. We didn't learn anything we didn't already know, and it didn't make the ending any more palatable. ME3 already had its terrible ending; I didn't need to be reminded of that same terrible ending as a close to the DLC's story, too!

In the last few months, I had finally stopped thinking about the ending, churning it over and over in my mind attempting to make sense of it or rewrite it. I couldn't get it out of my head before; it used to just bug me all the time, and make me frustrated. But that had finally faded. I stopped feeling like I needed to come here to the forum and express myself and see others do the same. The wound had just healed. Then this DLC came out, and I had fun being in the Mass Effect universe again, going on a new adventure and not thinking about the catalyst, synthesis, or any of that nonsense. I was happy that it was its own thing; it was its own story that could leave me satisfied, unlike the main game.

But the end of the DLC felt like Bioware trying to dredge up the stupid catalyst kid all over again and cram it down my throat. Would it have KILLED them to just drop it already? It was dumb. It's still dumb. It'll always be dumb. But I was moving on, why couldn't THEY?

Man, I feel burned AGAIN in the same exact way as last time. It's a great game all the way until the last few minutes, where it all falls apart and leaves me feeling awful. And it's the same nonsense from before, too. I'm really getting sick of this. Is this going to be the same with ALL the DLC packs? Are we going to reclaim Omega, only to have Aria start talking about the catalyst and its origins again? It's like Bioware thinks that the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. No. I don't want to hear that story anymore.

[Almostfaceman]

The Angry One wrote...

Leviathan! Hooray! Yeah I just couldn't stay away and had to check out the videos.
Though I must admit it is nice of them to attempt to amuse me so much.
I mean, it's hard work making such an incredibly dumb plot that my only reaction is giggling of the 1st order.

So yes, Leviathan. It seems that BioWare has been paying attention to the Catalyst apologists of late, in their latest attempt to defend it's actions.
Too bad that by doing so, they've made the Catalyst a liar (again), crazy or possibly both. It's especially hilarious when the Catalyst claims it was designed to make peace with synthetics, immediately admits that Leviathan's explanation (that it was designed to preserve life at all costs) is true, then repeats it's original claim shortly after.
Hey, BioWare. Either you intentionally made the Catalyst a lunatic, or you don't realise that these two things aren't the same!

Also, too bad that they've gone and made the entire debate as to the Catalyst's responsibility irrelevant. Think about it. Either the Catalyst betrayed it's creator's directives, in which case it's logic is toast and it can't be trusted or it's following the directives of creators who are confirmed to be evil control freak sociopaths in which case their logic which it follows is toast and it can't be trusted.

So yeah, thanks BioWare. The Catalyst is either a psychopath or the tool of psychopaths. Weren't you trying to apologise for it again? You're doing it wrong!
Also, thanks for confirming the creators were not only derps, but super grandmaster derps. "We saw that the lesser species who we controlled made machines that destroyed them. So instead of telling the remaining lesser species to knock it off or else we... decided to do exactly what they did." Uhuh.
And nice explanation for your defeat there, Leviathans. You can usurp control of Reaper minions and EMP bomb Sovereign class ships to death... but you couldn't defeat the Catalyst's information gathering pawns. Yeah, sure. Whatever.

In any case, thank you BioWare for a few minutes of youtube entertainment. It brightened my day.

Where the flock is the "Like" button? 

[Almostfaceman]

Skyrix wrote...

I was really enjoying the DLC. It was actually a lot of fun. Definitely an above-average Mass Effect mission. It did cool things I haven't seen before in Mass Effect and it was well worth the money.

Then I met with the leviathan, and he brought up ME3's ending. I was immediately reminded of how much I really hated that ending, and how it destroyed the community. It completely ruined the mood. It felt like Bioware was trying once AGAIN to get me to like it. The ending is still such a tender wound, and they had to go and open it back up. We didn't learn anything we didn't already know, and it didn't make the ending any more palatable. ME3 already had its terrible ending; I didn't need to be reminded of that same terrible ending as a close to the DLC's story, too!

In the last few months, I had finally stopped thinking about the ending, churning it over and over in my mind attempting to make sense of it or rewrite it. I couldn't get it out of my head before; it used to just bug me all the time, and make me frustrated. But that had finally faded. I stopped feeling like I needed to come here to the forum and express myself and see others do the same. The wound had just healed. Then this DLC came out, and I had fun being in the Mass Effect universe again, going on a new adventure and not thinking about the catalyst, synthesis, or any of that nonsense. I was happy that it was its own thing; it was its own story that could leave me satisfied, unlike the main game.

But the end of the DLC felt like Bioware trying to dredge up the stupid catalyst kid all over again and cram it down my throat. Would it have KILLED them to just drop it already? It was dumb. It's still dumb. It'll always be dumb. But I was moving on, why couldn't THEY?

Man, I feel burned AGAIN in the same exact way as last time. It's a great game all the way until the last few minutes, where it all falls apart and leaves me feeling awful. And it's the same nonsense from before, too. I'm really getting sick of this. Is this going to be the same with ALL the DLC packs? Are we going to reclaim Omega, only to have Aria start talking about the catalyst and its origins again? It's like Bioware thinks that the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. No. I don't want to hear that story anymore.

Just don't buy the DLC or play the silly game. I promise you will not feel burned again.

It's what I did. 

[Verit]

Skyrix wrote...
But the end of the DLC felt like Bioware trying to dredge up the stupid catalyst kid all over again and cram it down my throat. Would it have KILLED them to just drop it already? It was dumb. It's still dumb. It'll always be dumb. But I was moving on, why couldn't THEY?

I'm not sure if they're trying to convince the fans that the ending makes sense, but rather they're trying to convince themselves. I'd assume they realize that the people that dislike the ending aren't going to change their mind at this point regardless of how they try to explain the ending. I certainly don't care for their "clarification". What matters most to me is that an ending is meaningful, that I can say that the actions and decisions of the main character throughout the story weren't pointless. and I didn't find that at all in ME3. And every time Bioware tries to add content that happens before the ending that tries to add meaning to the eventual conclusion of the game, it actually does the opposite for me. It just highlights the problems even more.

[Dragoonlordz]

Skyrix wrote...

I was really enjoying the DLC. It was actually a lot of fun. Definitely an above-average Mass Effect mission. It did cool things I haven't seen before in Mass Effect and it was well worth the money.

Then I met with the leviathan, and he brought up ME3's ending. I was immediately reminded of how much I really hated that ending, and how it destroyed the community. It completely ruined the mood. It felt like Bioware was trying once AGAIN to get me to like it. The ending is still such a tender wound, and they had to go and open it back up. We didn't learn anything we didn't already know, and it didn't make the ending any more palatable. ME3 already had its terrible ending; I didn't need to be reminded of that same terrible ending as a close to the DLC's story, too!

In the last few months, I had finally stopped thinking about the ending, churning it over and over in my mind attempting to make sense of it or rewrite it. I couldn't get it out of my head before; it used to just bug me all the time, and make me frustrated. But that had finally faded. I stopped feeling like I needed to come here to the forum and express myself and see others do the same. The wound had just healed. Then this DLC came out, and I had fun being in the Mass Effect universe again, going on a new adventure and not thinking about the catalyst, synthesis, or any of that nonsense. I was happy that it was its own thing; it was its own story that could leave me satisfied, unlike the main game.

But the end of the DLC felt like Bioware trying to dredge up the stupid catalyst kid all over again and cram it down my throat. Would it have KILLED them to just drop it already? It was dumb. It's still dumb. It'll always be dumb. But I was moving on, why couldn't THEY?

Man, I feel burned AGAIN in the same exact way as last time. It's a great game all the way until the last few minutes, where it all falls apart and leaves me feeling awful. And it's the same nonsense from before, too. I'm really getting sick of this. Is this going to be the same with ALL the DLC packs? Are we going to reclaim Omega, only to have Aria start talking about the catalyst and its origins again? It's like Bioware thinks that the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. No. I don't want to hear that story anymore.

Why would you think it would not mentioned it? The whole point of Leviathan was about the beginnings of the Reapers, the catalyst and how it all came to be. The people to blame for it being about such is the very people you agree with in the first place. The ones who disliked the ending, thought EC was not enough for them and wanted more ending 'related' DLC.

I enjoyed Leviathan DLC, a lot of it was very good and some was okay but it was enjoyable and well worth the money. I however prefer in general given been 6 months already, they stop with the ending related stuff. EC was enough to make many who disliked the original endings so now start doing more non ending related DLC.

I personally want no ending related DLC, I want pre-endgame related with no mention of the ending even though I did not dislike the original endings or EC in the first place hence why they should ignore ending whining now and move on to keep the people who do not hate Bioware and do not hate the ending happy. Meaning non ending DLC.

Imho it's been 6 months, it is time for those to stop demanding new endings, stop demanding previous one is cut and start to move on and play something they actually like. Everyone is not required to love everything they do all the time. There are many things I did not like about the game just in this case the ending was not one of them before the name calling starts from those bitter about the ending.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 août 2012 - 08:06 .

[Kel Riever]

saracen16 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Ah, maaaze was right:

stopped reading.

I am gaining new powers everday;).

But seriously...has the OP finally enlightend us of what contradictions he/she meant?
still have not figured this out.

Nor will she. With TAO, it's "I'm right and you're wrong". She doesn't see the need to explain herself to you. 

And yet, you like Mac Walter's horrible endings?  I mean, I don't know you, but how ironic.

[loungeshep]

Well at least they make you laugh

[Meltemph]

I get what you are saying Angry...but honestly, ME2 kinda made it clear that they decided to move the game into closer to the realm of comic books, more so then a semi-intellectual scifi setting. ME is much close to star wars by a long ass shot now, then something like Deus Ex or even Blade Runner.

I think it is clear to me now, they wanted to jump on a bunch of story telling tropes, specially with-in scifi. Them adding in the creators of the reapers being mustache twirling villians really shouldnt come as a suprise either.

I think they were pushing the idea that "this cycle is unique because of shepard" and now is the time. They tried to push the idea of AI science being the devil in quite a few ways as well, in ME3, to the point of obnoxiousness, imo. It isnt about just being the synthetics fault, they are also trying to drive the point home that "gods and their creations will always clash". Hell, you even see some of this idea seep into fans of the endings. Trying to argue that sure the geth are fine right now, but you never know. Hell, even with this last DLC, again, BW tries to hit you over the head with the idea that AI science is teh devil(for many a reasons). The leviathan started it beacuse their slaves created synthetics that destroyed their thralls.

I think the idea for bioware was to give us this idea that organic creations of AI is inherently bad, because the flaws of organics, and then giving us spots to show why in this galaxy why it(AI research) is always a bad idea...Except! with Shep and this cycle because shep is so much more special(probably because he rose from the dead >.>).

This is also, I think, to support their premise that this universe repeats in cycles and that this point in time was the only way to break from destiny and stop the cycles(why hello that BSG).

I just think the problem is, people have become sick of this "synthetic vs organic" idea that likes to be used in scifi(I call it a lack of imagination, but meh), because it is the easy trope. I think many are unwilling to buy the contrivence that comes along this type of story and many others and it is coming to the boiling point.

[saracen16]

Kel Riever wrote...

And yet, you like Mac Walter's horrible endings?  I mean, I don't know you, but how ironic.

There's no irony in that at all. I find the endings to be amazing even pre-EC.

[saracen16]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Skyrix wrote...

I was really enjoying the DLC. It was actually a lot of fun. Definitely an above-average Mass Effect mission. It did cool things I haven't seen before in Mass Effect and it was well worth the money.

Then I met with the leviathan, and he brought up ME3's ending. I was immediately reminded of how much I really hated that ending, and how it destroyed the community. It completely ruined the mood. It felt like Bioware was trying once AGAIN to get me to like it. The ending is still such a tender wound, and they had to go and open it back up. We didn't learn anything we didn't already know, and it didn't make the ending any more palatable. ME3 already had its terrible ending; I didn't need to be reminded of that same terrible ending as a close to the DLC's story, too!

In the last few months, I had finally stopped thinking about the ending, churning it over and over in my mind attempting to make sense of it or rewrite it. I couldn't get it out of my head before; it used to just bug me all the time, and make me frustrated. But that had finally faded. I stopped feeling like I needed to come here to the forum and express myself and see others do the same. The wound had just healed. Then this DLC came out, and I had fun being in the Mass Effect universe again, going on a new adventure and not thinking about the catalyst, synthesis, or any of that nonsense. I was happy that it was its own thing; it was its own story that could leave me satisfied, unlike the main game.

But the end of the DLC felt like Bioware trying to dredge up the stupid catalyst kid all over again and cram it down my throat. Would it have KILLED them to just drop it already? It was dumb. It's still dumb. It'll always be dumb. But I was moving on, why couldn't THEY?

Man, I feel burned AGAIN in the same exact way as last time. It's a great game all the way until the last few minutes, where it all falls apart and leaves me feeling awful. And it's the same nonsense from before, too. I'm really getting sick of this. Is this going to be the same with ALL the DLC packs? Are we going to reclaim Omega, only to have Aria start talking about the catalyst and its origins again? It's like Bioware thinks that the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. No. I don't want to hear that story anymore.

Why would you think it would not mentioned it? The whole point of Leviathan was about the beginnings of the Reapers, the catalyst and how it all came to be. The people to blame for it being about such is the very people you agree with in the first place. The ones who disliked the ending, thought EC was not enough for them and wanted more ending 'related' DLC.

I enjoyed Leviathan DLC, a lot of it was very good and some was okay but it was enjoyable and well worth the money. I however prefer in general given been 6 months already, they stop with the ending related stuff. EC was enough to make many who disliked the original endings so now start doing more non ending related DLC.

I personally want no ending related DLC, I want pre-endgame related with no mention of the ending even though I did not dislike the original endings or EC in the first place hence why they should ignore ending whining now and move on to keep the people who do not hate Bioware and do not hate the ending happy. Meaning non ending DLC.

Imho it's been 6 months, it is time for those to stop demanding new endings, stop demanding previous one is cut and start to move on and play something they actually like. Everyone is not required to love everything they do all the time. There are many things I did not like about the game just in this case the ending was not one of them before the name calling starts from those bitter about the ending.

I think it's clear from Leviathan that like the horror in the abyss that did not want to disclose itself, the writers are defiant on their stance on the ending: they want to tell us a story... their story. Whether you look at it as "convincing themselves that the ending was good" or "standing up for their right to express themselves" doesn't matter: it's their property, their creation, and to change that on its head. Whether you like it or not accomplishes its goal as a work of art and story-telling.

[Dragoonlordz]

saracen16 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
-snip-

I think it's clear from Leviathan that like the horror in the abyss that did not want to disclose itself, the writers are defiant on their stance on the ending: they want to tell us a story... their story. Whether you look at it as "convincing themselves that the ending was good" or "standing up for their right to express themselves" doesn't matter: it's their property, their creation, and to change that on its head. Whether you like it or not accomplishes its goal as a work of art and story-telling.

Not sure what your point is?

You sure you was mean't to reply to me or what exactly are your refering to from what I said originally?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[Kel Riever]

saracen16 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

And yet, you like Mac Walter's horrible endings?  I mean, I don't know you, but how ironic.

There's no irony in that at all. I find the endings to be amazing even pre-EC.

It isn't ironic because 'you find the endings to be amazing', I should have been clear.  But more because you have a problem with someone being righteous...at least if you actually find that Mac Walters isn't a self-righteous a-hole...

Modifié par Kel Riever, 31 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[saracen16]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
-snip-

I think it's clear from Leviathan that like the horror in the abyss that did not want to disclose itself, the writers are defiant on their stance on the ending: they want to tell us a story... their story. Whether you look at it as "convincing themselves that the ending was good" or "standing up for their right to express themselves" doesn't matter: it's their property, their creation, and to change that on its head. Whether you like it or not accomplishes its goal as a work of art and story-telling.

Not sure what your point is?

You sure you was mean't to reply to me or what exactly are your refering to from what I said originally?

I was supporting your argument, if my post wasn't initially clear: Leviathan's affirmation of the ending makes it clear that there is no new ending in sight, and that this was their intended product.

@Kel Riever: Walters isn't more righteous than Stephen King is about The Shining. He is the Lead Writer of the story. You might as well call the others self-righteous jack@**es for having the gall to express themselves. The real irony is that many self-righteous BSN'ers like TAO feel their supposed "entitlement" to Mass Effect is violated when in fact they don't own a square nanometer of the franchise rights, and go on about forcing the writers to change their own story.

Just an FYI.

Modifié par saracen16, 31 août 2012 - 08:45 .

[Rogue Unit]

saracen16 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

And yet, you like Mac Walter's horrible endings?  I mean, I don't know you, but how ironic.

There's no irony in that at all. I find the endings to be amazing even pre-EC.

Hahahah..haha...

Oh wait. You aren't joking.

[Dragoonlordz]

Kel Riever wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

And yet, you like Mac Walter's horrible endings?  I mean, I don't know you, but how ironic.

There's no irony in that at all. I find the endings to be amazing even pre-EC.

It isn't ironic because 'you find the endings to be amazing'...

No matter how much you belittle his enjoyment of it, how much you whine about how horrible you think it is. Out of the two of you he is the one who is less bitter and unhappy because he enjoyed what he bought while you apparently did not. In life I know what most people would rather be between bitter and unhappy or happy and content. He is the latter and got something he likes while you are the former and did not, so he wins.

[Kel Riever]

@saracen:

Just an FYI, Stephen King's worst piece of fiction is miles better than Mac Walters piece of garbage. Now, I am not saying you can't like it. But don't you find it ironic that you have a problem with what you perceive as TAO being self-righteous, and yet it is fairly widely believed (even if you disagree with it) that Mac Walters f*cked up the endings? Let's put it this way...TAO gets all the room in the world from me for being what you call self-righteous for a point of view that is absolutely no more wrong whatsoever than somebody calling the end of Mass Effect 3 'amazing.'

Amazing is a word that you can use, if you want to use a personal reference point. But unlike Stephen King, there isn't anything 'amazing' about the end of Mass Effect 3 in the public arena. I like, you know, as an example, the Underworld movies. That's my personal preference. But me calling them 'amazing' is like you calling the end of Mass Effect 'amazing.' It'd be a complete personal choice with little (note, not zero) backup. That should simply be evident from looking at the opinions even here from the small, yet statistically adequate (not an opinion, btw), sample size here in these forums.

You and I might disagree on liking ME3. That's completely subjective. But calling it Amazing is limited, certainly, to personal opinion here. There is no public standard that you can point to to call ME3 amazing. Legitimately. Marketing under the guise of 'an independent IGN review' *barf* and its ilk do not count.

By the way, I'm not saying it couldn't have happened. There are a lot of standards that you could point to if ME3 'was amazing' that are already established. And then, you know, I'd agree with you that the general opinion is 'that it was amazing' and yet I hated it.

So, since it is back to public opinion, The Angry One > Mac Walters, and the endings of ME3 = pile of crap.  And you can call me bitter about it, or you can understand that is miles more entertaining bashing it, than playing it.

In that regard, BioWare, YOU WIN!  I love making fun of your game.  Even if it wasn't your intention.

Does that make it AMAZING? 

Modifié par Kel Riever, 31 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[saracen16]

Kel Riever wrote...

@saracen:

Just an FYI, Stephen King's worst piece of fiction is miles better than Mac Walters piece of garbage. Now, I am not saying you can't like it. But don't you find it ironic that you have a problem with what you perceive as TAO being self-righteous, and yet it is fairly widely believed (even if you disagree with it) that Mac Walters f*cked up the endings? Let's put it this way...TAO gets all the room in the world from me for being what you call self-righteous for a point of view that is absolutely no more wrong whatsoever than somebody calling the end of Mass Effect 3 'amazing.'

I think I've already explained myself with regards to TAO: it's her attitude, smugness, hypocrisy, and disregard for the lore in many of our debates that make her self-righteous. I don't believe that it is ironic that Mac Walters "screwed up" the endings even as I call out TAO for the hypocritical arguments that she makes. I personally think that Mass Effect 3's ending is amazing, and people are free to disagree with me on that matter, even if it happens to be the majority. There are a lot more people coming out that like the endings even more with the EC regardless of the original endings, but majorities never really did matter to the artist.

Amazing is a word that you can use, if you want to use a personal reference point. But unlike Stephen King, there isn't anything 'amazing' about the end of Mass Effect 3 in the public arena. I like, you know, as an example, the Underworld movies. That's my personal preference. But me calling them 'amazing' is like you calling the end of Mass Effect 'amazing.' It'd be a complete personal choice with little (note, not zero) backup. That should simply be evident from looking at the opinions even here from the small, yet statistically adequate (not an opinion, btw), sample size here in these forums.

And your statement about Stephen King's fiction is fact as well? I personally am not the biggest fan of King's work, but I don't let that overtake me into a desire to force people to hate it, nor do I take up the task of belittling everyone else's enjoyment of the franchises he creates, something you are ironically doing right now.

You and I might disagree on liking ME3. That's completely subjective. But calling it Amazing is limited, certainly, to personal opinion here. There is no public standard that you can point to to call ME3 amazing. Legitimately. Marketing under the guise of 'an independent IGN review' *barf* and its ilk do not count.

And what were we talking about? Self-righteousness? Here you are bringing about statements such as "public standards", which like "commonsense" does not exist. You're arguing from a false lofty position whenever you bring up the appeal of the masses. A majority may dislike a piece of fiction, but saying that "this piece of fiction is a turd and that is fact" is hypocritical to say the least.

By the way, I'm not saying it couldn't have happened. There are a lot of standards that you could point to if ME3 'was amazing' that are already established. And then, you know, I'd agree with you that the general opinion is 'that it was amazing' and yet I hated it.

So, since it is back to public opinion, The Angry One > Mac Walters, and the endings of ME3 = pile of crap.  And you can call me bitter about it, or you can understand that is miles more entertaining bashing it, than playing it.

"Understand"? You're calling me and Mac Walters self-righteous, and yet here you are telling me what to do? Belittlement is a practice of the self-righteous, the hypocrite, and the arrogant. You have to be little to belittle someone. This is exactly what you are doing: passing up your own opinion as fact, and forcing me to believe it.

I wouldn't continue this debate if I were you.

[Kel Riever]

Duh, before you go crazy, you should notice you are putting words in my mouth. And also, what the hell is "I wouldn't continue this debate if I were you." Is that a veiled internet threat? (which would be laughable if it was) or is that some misunderstanding that what I am doing is threatening you?

Anyway, re-read what I posted. Not because 'I am telling you what to do' but because there isn't a personal attack in there. I'm saying I find it ironic that you have a problem with TAOs post, given what you are saying.  Anyway, yes, you can hate Stephen King (everyone knows he has a penchant to write some bad stuff, and a lot of it, as well as the good).  But hate him as anyone may, the dude has a lot of public acolades and made a lot more money doing it that Walters.  If Walters had the kind of carreer that King did, things would certainly be different.  King is a good example of someone who doesn't write a whole lot of everything well, yet is incredibly successful.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 31 août 2012 - 09:44 .

[saracen16]

Excuse me, Kel, but you're the one who suddenly jumped in out of nowhere into this thread. I am not one to make threats at anyone. I'm just telling you to look at your arguments: you are essentially being self-righteous by stating that "public opinion" goes with you and TAO while at the same time telling me that it's ironic that I point out TAO for her self-righteousness. In essence, you are being hypocritical.

But anyways, you must be thinking that I am self-righteous in that I am calling TAO self-righteous? That TAO is too absorbed on her own pedestal? That she hasn't responded to a single one of mine or maaaze's arguments that we made against her in the previous pages of this thread and other threads? Have you seen her in other threads? She expects us to believe everything that she says and not debate it. That, by definition, is being self-righteous. I have made my own mistakes, but I don't go around forcing my opinion on others.

And just because I find ME3 amazing doesn't make me self-righteous. Nor does it make someone else who defies so-called "public opinion" self-righteous. Blade Runner never hit box office sales records, and critics were polarized about it, but it has a cult following to this day, and that didn't stop them from liking it. I happen to like the Mass Effect trilogy's lore than any of Stephen King's horror stories: I find the former to be deep and thought-provoking. But that's just my personal preference. It doesn't make King's fans any less valid. I don't measure the success of an art form by the amount of money that the artist generates, but rather by the chord that (s)he strikes within me.

[Kel Riever]

I like Blade Runner, so that's a good example. Well, let me get to this first. I like TAOs posts because first, I agree with them, and second, I don't really find them any more self righteous than you, or me, or anybody else. I tend to find, however, Walters to be a great degree more self-righteous than any of us by writing off an excuse that 'he just can't write a certain ending' or you know, the 'artistic integrity.' Mostly because he had a job and it is an excuse for a job, imo, not well done. Now, you can tell me you like the ending(s) of me3 and I won't argue with that, and you aren't self righteous for saying that. Nor do I find someone who is purchasing a game and critical of it to be self righteous. If they are, then they certainly paid for that priviledge.

Anyway, back to Blade Runner. You could say, in its time, Blade Runner was panned. But it became a cult classic because there was something people agreed on that was great about it. And it has a very long, very public, trail of proof that is non-subjective. How many repeat sales has it made? How many times has it been put back on cable? How many times has it been rented? A whole lot.

Now, nobody can predict the future. And maybe, one day, we will all turn around and say, "Remember how many people said they hated the endings of ME3? And now look how well it has done, beyond its release!" Well, I'll shift what I say then, maybe, to that I thought it was atrocious, but a lot of people ended up liking it. As it stands now, all I can see is a lot of personal feelings, and more negative than positive. Further, I see a lot of accolades from extremely biased sources who are reviewing their sponsors.

I am going to go out there and say I do not take anything away from you from liking the endings. I have a lot of people I know here in BSN who like the endings. Of course I have a lot more who don't. But regardless, none of them is calling it amazing, even its supporters, if simply for the fact that so many people do not like what has been produced, and continue to not like it. I'm sure that will change if, well, we are all proven wrong. The best way to see that proof is to see if people keep buying BioWare products, and specifically products for ME.

I won't be. I'll 'speculate' and say that I think BioWare is in an awful lot of trouble, but you know, I actually fear more that they will (opinion here, just stating ahead of time) limp along and slowly die with the much lower number of fans who continue to buy their stuff. But if they go on and achieve the success they did again in the ME universe as they had when ME3 was released, then well, hey, it will prove me wrong.