509 réponses à ce sujet

[Hrothdane]

Honestly, the stupidity of the Starbrat is reaching Poe's Law levels. I honestly don't know anymore if BioWare actually wants us to believe what he says, or if they are purposefully dicking around with us and we are supposed to think he's crazy and/or full of ****.

If they really wanted to do the former, they could have spent ten minutes reading comments and just given Starbrat more last-second, left-field exposition. If they really wanted to do the latter, then why the hell do we have to do what he says in order to win the game?

[Eterna]

You give yourself far too much credit.

Going out of their way to make you laugh? My oh my, you must be a special one!

[MegaSovereign]

You miss the point. Either it's a psychopath, or it's following the commands given by psychopaths, since Leviathan tells us that the creators themselves were extremist, boorish, racist, control freaks.
Either way, any remaining claim that it's logic has any validity or that it's trustworthy are toast. Gone. BioWare shot themselves in the foot. Again.

This is of course assuming that it's the truth, because the Catalyst still claims otherwise and then contradicts itself. Somebody is lying. The question in either case is: Why?

Okay...So you don't trust the Catalyst?

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. I would hate it more if the DLC justified Synthesis.

[Anacronian Stryx]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not a psychopath. It was programmed to "preserve organic life at all costs."

I don't get how "at all costs" gets by people. He did exactly what he was programmed to do, the Leviathan itself admits to such. It's STILL performing it's original duty. What they forgot was to specify that "at all cost" wasn't meant to be "turn us into the solution".

It's kind of like if you were asked with preserving a priceless vase at all cost you then decide "oh I'm gonna smash this vase into a 1000 pieces with a hammer.. that will preserve it..yup" rather than actually do something against whatever threatened the vase.

[Andy the Black]

Well, they did make my laugh. "Sovereign, the vanguard of our destruction. Hows that working out for ya big guy?" Ha, that was funny.

[H2Ape]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not a psychopath. It was programmed to "preserve organic life at all costs."

I don't get how "at all costs" gets by people. He did exactly what he was programmed to do, the Leviathan itself admits to such. It's STILL performing it's original duty. What they forgot was to specify that "at all cost" wasn't meant to be "turn us into the solution".

[Mr.House]

Andy the Black wrote...

Well, they did make my laugh. "Sovereign, the vanguard of our destruction. Hows that working out for ya big guy?" Ha, that was funny.

The whole first lab visit was awesome.

[Pitznik]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not a psychopath. It was programmed to "preserve organic life at all costs."

I don't get how "at all costs" gets by people. He did exactly what he was programmed to do, the Leviathan itself admits to such. It's STILL performing it's original duty. What they forgot was to specify that "at all cost" wasn't meant to be "turn us into the solution".

It's kind of like if you were asked with preserving a priceless vase at all cost you then decide "oh I'm gonna smash this vase into a 1000 pieces with a hammer.. that will preserve it..yup" rather than actually do something against whatever threatened the vase.

No. It is more like encasing it in a block of concrete. Is it preserved? Yes, yes it is. Is it still useful/pretty/having ANY vaselike qualities? No. Literally correct, yet still totally not what supposed to happen.

[Jonathan Sud]

You're name should be TheSarcasticOne :3

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's the second.  It's following the programming of a bunch of self-absorbed, arrgoant jerks.  They didn't wish for synthetics to overrun the galaxy, and created an AI to come up with an answer based on the information it gathered.  They foolishly believed that telling it "at all costs" meant "As long as we survive".

Again, NOTHING about the Catalyst has actually changed.  We already knew he was operating on a flawed solution to a problem that as it turns out, his creators, the Leviathans, CAUSED!  If the Leviathans didn't go around subjugating every lesser race, the races wouldn't have built synthetics.

And the cause of the synthetic conflict is the fear that the created synthetics would subjugate the creators.  Again, this doesn't change anything with regards to the Catalyst, except to prove what people theorized: His creators are a bunch of ****s.  I consider it ironic justice they got turned into the very thing they wanted to get rid of: Synthetics.

The Catalyst STILL claims it was created to bring peace with synthetics. Leviathan claims it was always created to preserve life at all costs.
If the Catalyst said that it was created to preserve organic life and hence tried for peace, fine. But it didn't say that. It said it's what it was created for. Then admits that this is false. Then states it again! It's a complete mess.

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay...So you don't trust the Catalyst?

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. I would hate it more if the DLC justified Synthesis.

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

Modifié par The Angry One, 29 août 2012 - 01:06 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Oh hey, I guess it's official: TAO is trying to make me laugh with another lame thread. So, you don't like that they're not supporting your viewpoints or those of people who couldn't stop complaining about the endings if their lives depended on it? Too bad.

I certainly said all along that the Catalyst did what it did because it had directives that it couldn't disobey and that the harvesting was the only solution that it saw. Somehow, I doubt that BioWare up and decided to write something along those along those lines because of me or anyone else with similar views. It just so happens that we were right, and you weren't - again - kind of like how you weren't right about the galaxy ending, weren't right about the entire fleet being stranded, weren't right about everyone starving, and weren't right about everyone on the mystery world being permanently stranded and having inbred descendants.

And the Leviathans weren't psychopaths - they were an advanced organic race that used sapients as slaves/servants/thralls. There's a certain amount of irony in that. They seem to have created the Catalyst as an easy way to maintain control without expending much effort. They just never anticipated what would happen or that as it grew in complexity it would turn on them.

[funfryfrenzy]

The Angry One wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's the second.  It's following the programming of a bunch of self-absorbed, arrgoant jerks.  They didn't wish for synthetics to overrun the galaxy, and created an AI to come up with an answer based on the information it gathered.  They foolishly believed that telling it "at all costs" meant "As long as we survive".

Again, NOTHING about the Catalyst has actually changed.  We already knew he was operating on a flawed solution to a problem that as it turns out, his creators, the Leviathans, CAUSED!  If the Leviathans didn't go around subjugating every lesser race, the races wouldn't have built synthetics.

And the cause of the synthetic conflict is the fear that the created synthetics would subjugate the creators.  Again, this doesn't change anything with regards to the Catalyst, except to prove what people theorized: His creators are a bunch of ****s.  I consider it ironic justice they got turned into the very thing they wanted to get rid of: Synthetics.

The Catalyst STILL claims it was created to bring peace with synthetics. Leviathan claims it was always created to preserve life at all costs.
If the Catalyst said that it was created to preserve organic life and hence tried for peace, fine. But it didn't say that. It said it's what it was created for. Then admits that this is false. Then states it again! It's a complete mess.

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay...So you don't trust the Catalyst?

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. I would hate it more if the DLC justified Synthesis.

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

They are trying to Justify it. It doesnt make sense at all considering all of the "Lore" from the game. Destroy in order to save doesnt really add up.

[Andy the Black]

Mr.House wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Well, they did make my laugh. "Sovereign, the vanguard of our destruction. Hows that working out for ya big guy?" Ha, that was funny.

The whole first lab visit was awesome.

It was. It made me feel like I was in an episode of CSI or some other crime scene show I've never seen.

Modifié par Andy the Black, 29 août 2012 - 01:09 .

[The Angry One]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh hey, I guess it's official: TAO is trying to make me laugh with another lame thread. So, you don't like that they're not supporting your viewpoints or those of people who couldn't stop complaining about the endings if their lives depended on it? Too bad.

Ah hello Atreiya. Somehow I knew you'd turn up to defend the indefensible as always. Usually you save the insults until after you've spewed your headcanon for all to see. Getting bored with the formula are we?

I certainly said all along that the Catalyst did what it did because it had directives that it couldn't disobey and that the harvesting was the only solution that it saw. Somehow, I doubt that BioWare up and decided to write something along those along those lines because of me or anyone else with similar views. It just so happens that we were right, and you weren't - again -

And yet again, this discussion has been made irrelevant by revealing the creator's true nature.
Moreover, if BioWare aren't making it up on the fly, explain why the Catalyst contradicts itself in the same conversation.

kind of like how you weren't right about the galaxy ending, weren't right about the entire fleet being stranded, weren't right about everyone starving, and weren't right about everyone on the mystery world being permanently stranded and having inbred descendants.

Except I was right. BECAUSE THEY RETCONNED IT. The fact that you still won't admit this when basically everyone else has is hilarious.

And the Leviathans weren't psychopaths - they were an advanced organic race that used sapients as slaves/servants/thralls. There's a certain amount of irony in that. They seem to have created the Catalyst as an easy way to maintain control without expending much effort. They just never anticipated what would happen or that as it grew in complexity it would turn on them.

So they weren't psychopaths. They just behaved exactly like psychopaths.
Sure, dear. Whatever you say.

[MegaSovereign]

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

That's a strawman. Knowing that the Catalyst is a rogue AI doesn't mean he's lying about what the choices do. The Catalyst believes all the choices are solutions, so there really isn't a reason why he would lie about the functionality of the Crucible.

This is a silly argument, really..

[AresKeith]

Andy the Black wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Well, they did make my laugh. "Sovereign, the vanguard of our destruction. Hows that working out for ya big guy?" Ha, that was funny.

The whole first lab visit was awesome.

It was. It made me feel like I was in an episode of CSI or some other crime scene show I've never seen.

if only your Shepard had sunglasses right? lol

[Mathias]

MegaSovereign wrote...

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

That's a strawman. Knowing that the Catalyst is a rogue AI doesn't mean he's lying about what the choices do. The Catalyst believes all the choices are solutions, so there really isn't a reason why he would lie about the functionality of the Crucible.

This is a silly argument, really..

Everyone's favorite word these days...

[Galifreya]

At this point I'm simply waiting for a fanmade ending. BioWare are either drawing out a long, painful reveal of some kind, or they are completely incompetent at writing plot. Well...not all of their writers are incompetent. Just this one: "We fight, or we die."

[zambot]

I'm glad you can laugh about it. Be careful about going insane. Trying to apply logic and reason to the illogical can do that to you.

[Greed1914]

I just hope that many of the Leviathans died from their minds being blown by their sheer stupidity coming back to get them. If anything, the whole bit about them being betrayed by the Catalyst basically confirms the accuracy of the "Yo Dawg!" meme that was going around in March.

[The Angry One]

MegaSovereign wrote...

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

That's a strawman. Knowing that the Catalyst is a rogue AI doesn't mean he's lying about what the choices do. The Catalyst believes all the choices are solutions, so there really isn't a reason why he would lie about the functionality of the Crucible.

This is a silly argument, really..

This is of course assuming that it's telling the truth about that too.
Even though that part of it is, you don't know that without metagaming. Shepard has no reason to believe it and less reason to with Leviathan.

[MegaSovereign]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

All choices except refuse require you to trust the Catalyst and what it says. Period.

That's a strawman. Knowing that the Catalyst is a rogue AI doesn't mean he's lying about what the choices do. The Catalyst believes all the choices are solutions, so there really isn't a reason why he would lie about the functionality of the Crucible.

This is a silly argument, really..

Everyone's favorite word these days...

I don't have a favorite word.

But I do have a favorite phrase.

"Grow up."

[Andy the Black]

Nvm

Modifié par Andy the Black, 29 août 2012 - 01:33 .

[RiouHotaru]

Who's to say that peace and preservation are mutually exclusive options? Maybe the Catalyst tried peace to begin with (after all, when faced with someone who doesn't like you, trying to talk them down is usually the first thing to come to mind), only when that didn't work, extreme measures were necessary.

[Baronesa]

I'm very glad to see that the mature responses keep coming.

People responding to a TAO's thread never disappoint.