509 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

Kel Riever wrote...

I like Blade Runner, so that's a good example. Well, let me get to this first. I like TAOs posts because first, I agree with them, and second, I don't really find them any more self righteous than you, or me, or anybody else.

A person who says that "X is fact and is not up for debate" is by any one's definition self-righteous, moreso than other, especially when they espouse a holier-than-thou attitude.

I tend to find, however, Walters to be a great degree more self-righteous than any of us by writing off an excuse that 'he just can't write a certain ending' or you know, the 'artistic integrity.'

Since when did Mass Effect give us a choice that we wanted? The expression the trilogy started with was on an old TV ad: many decisions lie ahead, none of them easy. The decisions in the game were placed by the writers, not by you, not by me, not by any other fan. It is an artist's right to defend his own artistic integrity and his right to self-expression. To call him self-righteous for doing his job is like calling a doctor self-righteous for saving the life of a boy with a peanut allergy who just scarfed on a Snickers bar.

Mostly because he had a job and it is an excuse for a job, imo, not well done. Now, you can tell me you like the ending(s) of me3 and I won't argue with that, and you aren't self righteous for saying that. Nor do I find someone who is purchasing a game and critical of it to be self righteous. If they are, then they certainly paid for that priviledge.

And that's what the writers did: they invested money and heart into the project.

I am going to go out there and say I do not take anything away from you from liking the endings. I have a lot of people I know here in BSN who like the endings. Of course I have a lot more who don't. But regardless, none of them is calling it amazing ---

Prove it. Prove that there is no other poster beside me who loved the ending of ME3 and thinks it's amazing.

[Kel Riever]

Okay, maybe I missed it, but never did I say TAO mention that she her opinion was holier than thou, so you are entitled to your point of view, but I disagree.

Second point, I would say that Mass Effect 1 gave people choice(s) that they wanted, based on reading reaction and sales of ME 2. I would say that ME 2 certainly gave people choice(s) that they wanted, based on reading reaction and sales of ME 3, which sound ver successful. Is that what you meant? I'm not sure if you were simply talking about ME3. I'm going to say that ME3 failed in that. Now, even if they were successful, they did not find a way to include nearly as many people in their choices as with ME1 or ME2. And I would outright call your comparisson of Walters to a doctor a fallacy, since you are comparing a person with no outside confirmation of his ability other than opinion and sales. If a doctor saves a kid from death, that is a non-subjective result.

Investing heart into the project, sure. I can agree with you there. But that doesn't necessarily mean anyone did their job well. There's a lot of people who try very hard and mean well, and don't do well. I'm going to go out on a limb and say here that while on one hand you could say they invested their heart, on the other, Walters did not invest his wisdom. Wisdom enough maybe, to get his work checked enough. But even besides that, certainly not the wisdom to take the criticism he received and answer the complaints while sticking to his intended vision. See, that's where I accuse him of using 'artistic integrity' as his giant excuse, instead of actually doing what real artistic integrity is, which is accomplish your vision while having it communicate well to people. He didn't do that...again, based on not just personal opinion, but all the negative responses that keep on coming.

I don't know what you are looking for in proof. I think you might have read that I meant 'All of the population of BSN' and what I mean is, 'Of the people I know who don't like the endings, I don't know any of those people I know who call it amazing.' Know meaning regularly associate and communicate with. It wasn't meant to be a general statement of all of BSN or everyone in general.

Have to get on with my weekend here. If you want the last word on this, you can have it and I'll read it soon. But I have to get myself along here. Tried to respond to you as best I could.

[babachewie]

Great the other obsessive psycho came out to give their take and as usual didn't understand what they saw. You cant spell BSN without BS.

[Deltateam Elcor]

 If anything Bioware just gave me the green light to solidify the Red light...

[I am disappoint]

This is thread is crazy.

But the ending does suck, hopefully one day Bioware will fix it.

[rockman0]

Lots of speculation going on here. I like it...

The first visit to the mining lab did get me though.

Shephard: Did you know there were reapers attacking your door?

blank stare from the employees. then in a monotone voice.

"Are they still there?"
"No."
(pause) "That'll be all."
"What?"
"Oh, can I help you?"
(pause)
"The sign in sheet for tours is over there."
(pause)
....
...
"You don't belong here."
....
....
"Shephard, I think something's wrong."

No kidding, captain obvious. You're about 20 hours late on that one. :/

[JBPBRC]

rockman0 wrote...

Lots of speculation going on here. I like it...

The first visit to the mining lab did get me though.

Shephard: Did you know there were reapers attacking your door?

blank stare from the employees. then in a monotone voice.

"Are they still there?"
"No."
(pause) "That'll be all."
"What?"
"Oh, can I help you?"
(pause)
"The sign in sheet for tours is over there."
(pause)
....
...
"You don't belong here."
....
....
"Shephard, I think something's wrong."

No kidding, captain obvious. You're about 20 hours late on that one. :/

Yeah...

SHEPARD Y U SO DUMB

[rockman0]

JBPBRC wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Lots of speculation going on here. I like it...

The first visit to the mining lab did get me though.

Shephard: Did you know there were reapers attacking your door?

blank stare from the employees. then in a monotone voice.

"Are they still there?"
"No."
(pause) "That'll be all."
"What?"
"Oh, can I help you?"
(pause)
"The sign in sheet for tours is over there."
(pause)
....
...
"You don't belong here."
....
....
"Shephard, I think something's wrong."

No kidding, captain obvious. You're about 20 hours late on that one. :/

Yeah...

SHEPARD Y U SO DUMB

I...no...know?

[Valmarn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You miss the point. Either it's a psychopath, or it's following the commands given by psychopaths, since Leviathan tells us that the creators themselves were extremist, boorish, racist, control freaks.
Either way, any remaining claim that it's logic has any validity or that it's trustworthy are toast. Gone. BioWare shot themselves in the foot. Again.

This is of course assuming that it's the truth, because the Catalyst still claims otherwise and then contradicts itself. Somebody is lying. The question in either case is: Why?

It's the second.  It's following the programming of a bunch of self-absorbed, arrgoant jerks.

*thinks for a moment*...BioWare?

[Valmarn]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Why do I need a Degree to do what the writers at Bioware do?

Judging from the quality and coherence of Walters' writing...I don't think you need any sort of the degree to write at BioWare. As long as you made it through grade school, and you have a good imagination, you're every bit as qualified as he is.

[LegendaryBlade]

After the DLC endings where he basically admits he turns on and kills his creator's, I had assumed it was canon that the godchild was a flawed and broken A.I. That it's explinations are intentionally flawed.

The three choices, or the catalyst itself, is still Bioware not understanding basic writing strture. But as to "Leviathan proves the starchild is full of ****" I thought it was already established.

[CELL55]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Leviathan best $10 I never spent

What did you spend your Leviathan money on? I spent mine on groceries.

Greylycantrope wrote...
Went to the movies over the weekend.

The Angry One wrote...
Bacardi.

AresKeith wrote...
I'm saving it for AC3 lol

C9316 wrote...
I'm saving it to for a possible trip to europe in the future..

This is becoming it's own thread.

I'm going to use the money to buy the Hearthfire DLC for Skyrim. Then I'm going to build a house. Thenn I'm going to fill that house with bookshelves. Then I'm going to fill those bookshelves with books that have better endings than ME3. Which is all of the books. Even The Lusty Argonian Maid. Especially  The Lusty Argonian Maid.

Modifié par CELL55, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:15 .

[The Twilight God]

AlRPG wrote...

If they could control the "lesser" species. Couldn't they just stop them from building the dangerous AI?

I doubt they can actually control trillions of individuals. They may influence their culture and world veiws to a point, but I doubt they had full on husk control of every individual across the galaxy.

[CELL55]

The Twilight God wrote...

AlRPG wrote...

If they could control the "lesser" species. Couldn't they just stop them from building the dangerous AI?

I doubt they can actually control trillions of individuals. They may influence their culture and world veiws to a point, but I doubt they had full on husk control of every individual across the galaxy.

Is that what we're back to? Guessing? Headcanon?

[Menagra]

CELL55 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Leviathan best $10 I never spent

What did you spend your Leviathan money on? I spent mine on groceries.

Greylycantrope wrote...
Went to the movies over the weekend.

The Angry One wrote...
Bacardi.

AresKeith wrote...
I'm saving it for AC3 lol

C9316 wrote...
I'm saving it to for a possible trip to europe in the future..

This is becoming it's own thread.

I'm going to use the money to buy the Hearthfire DLC for Skyrim. Then I'm going to build a house. Thenn I'm going to fill that house with bookshelves. Then I'm going to fill those bookshelves with books that have better endings than ME3. Which is all of the books. Even The Lusty Argonian Maid. Especially  [/u][u]The Lusty Argonian Maid.

Bioware should just insert the plot to The Lusty Argonian Maid after shepard is  levitated up to catalyst.

Would make better ending. 

[saracen16]

CELL55 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

AlRPG wrote...

If they could control the "lesser" species. Couldn't they just stop them from building the dangerous AI?

I doubt they can actually control trillions of individuals. They may influence their culture and world veiws to a point, but I doubt they had full on husk control of every individual across the galaxy.

Is that what we're back to? Guessing? Headcanon?

The Leviathan says it himself: "We grew more powerful, and they were cared for, but we could not protect them from themselves." This shows that the Leviathans had limited control. It's even shown in the DLC: they can only use the fragments to control individuals at a distance. So much for "guessing" and "headcanon", huh?

Modifié par saracen16, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:22 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not a psychopath. It was programmed to "preserve organic life at all costs."

I don't get how "at all costs" gets by people. He did exactly what he was programmed to do, the Leviathan itself admits to such. It's STILL performing it's original duty. What they forgot was to specify that "at all cost" wasn't meant to be "turn us into the solution".

It's kind of like if you were asked with preserving a priceless vase at all cost you then decide "oh I'm gonna smash this vase into a 1000 pieces with a hammer.. that will preserve it..yup" rather than actually do something against whatever threatened the vase.

"That will preserve it. In the *pieces* form".

Seriously, I thought that majority of people should understand the major theme of the ending, "your belief is not requred", "irrelevant", nothing really matters - it's just you having to play god for a bit as a reward of your long journey. Thriumph of heroic nihilism at its best.

[fiendishchicken]

I know it's a necro, but I really got to say I agree with the OP here. It really doesn't make sense the way it ended up for the catalyst. The Leviathans gave a flawed question to a real problem, and the Catalyst, who is supposedly incredibly intelligent and capable of reason, decides to follow through with murdering countless cycles anyway. There was a break in the logic at some point.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:59 .

[clarkusdarkus]

Whatever happened to the OP as i agreed with alot of what they said as i do with this thread.....

[Liamv2]

Holy necro thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BD Manchild]

This must be at least the tenth necrothread I've seen around here. There really ought to be a law here against thread necromancy.

[SimonTheFrog]

Are you some kind of Templar?

[Galbrant]

Wow, I haven't seen this thread in months. The OP points still stand though.

The Angry One wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

I just hope that many of the Leviathans died from their minds being blown by their sheer stupidity coming back to get them. If anything, the whole bit about them being betrayed by the Catalyst basically confirms the accuracy of the "Yo Dawg!" meme that was going around in March.

Actually now it's more like:




Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached cluster**** singularity.

It was worth revisting this thread.

Modifié par Galbrant, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:18 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Whatever happened to the OP as i agreed with alot of what they said as i do with this thread.....

She finally got fed up with the whole thing would be my guess. Kinda of a shame I think she'd enjoy MEHEM.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:18 .

[MegaIllusiveMan]

I'm late for the party