509 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

RiouHotaru wrote...
And what is that one simple thing?

"Hey, you there! Thralls! Don't build thinking machines eh? Because I told you to. Groovy? Groovy."

or

"Hey, our super-AI is revolting! *Epic Levi staredown and the Catalyst fries from the EMP like effect*."

or

"Hey, new thralls, make big guns. Why? Don't worry about it, you won't need them for awhile yet, but better now than later."

or

"Hey, we can build ships, head out to dark space, and own the Reapers when they're sleeping. We have PLENTY of time."

[Pedro Costa]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Taboo, there's no point.  For everyone, the fact Leviathan didn't change anything (despite Bioware stating it wouldn't change anything) is a self-fullfilling prophecy.  We've already pointed out the fact that NOTHING in Leviathan contradicts what we already knew or were told.  At this point they're just fabricating context.

No, it just makes it hard to believe in the Reapers threat and efficiency when they leave blueprints for a weapon that can wipe them out around for the next cycle to pick up, when they leave prothean VIs just there, when they let Protheans build a Mass Relay in the Citadel, and now when they leave the very first sentient species we know of in the galaxy survive to present ME-verse time. It is one failure too many for something with the explicit objective of stopping a potential AI armaggedon while reseting the Galaxy's technological playing field. This singularity the brat so much fears hasn't happened by either sheer, stupid luck or because the AIs really don't care about wiping out all organic life.
The Reapers are slowly becoming Cerberus.

[ShepComing4U]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Taboo, there's no point.  For everyone, the fact Leviathan didn't change anything (despite Bioware stating it wouldn't change anything) is a self-fullfilling prophecy.  We've already pointed out the fact that NOTHING in Leviathan contradicts what we already knew or were told.  At this point they're just fabricating context.

It just makes everything worse. Mass Effect has now degraded to "Idiot plot" and could've easily been stopped by one simple, smart, thing.

Or a story about how people don't take responsibility for their creations.

Everything that happened could have been prevented. It's a tragedy of cosmic proportions.

At some point, someone thought they knew best and made a decision that resulted in quintillions been killed and preserved in Reaper form.

It's about hubris. Arrogance.

And Shepard can stop it once and for all.

So, please explain why, instead of making their "Thralls" not create Synthetics, they choose to create their own. I'm sorry, but it seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do.

[davidshooter]

Taboo-XX wrote...


Or a story about how people don't take responsibility for their creations.

You mean like Mac and Casey?

[Anacronian Stryx]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
And what is that one simple thing?

"Hey, you there! Thralls! Don't build thinking machines eh? Because I told you to. Groovy? Groovy."

or

"Hey, our super-AI is revolting! *Epic Levi staredown and the Catalyst fries from the EMP like effect*."

or

"Hey, new thralls, make big guns. Why? Don't worry about it, you won't need them for awhile yet, but better now than later."

or

"Hey, we can build ships, head out to dark space, and own the Reapers when they're sleeping. We have PLENTY of time."

Or "hey how about we give our new AI some kind of fail safe device so it doesn't turn against us like those AI's those puny thralls built".

[davidshooter]

When is the Dreman9999 vs Maaaze Spelling Bee?

I'd pay $10 to see that.

[Bob the Elcor]

With major confusion, I forgot how hectic the storyline forums are, it is starting to hurt my head, with hopefulness, could someone please tell me if Leviathian is worth buying, then I will be retreating back to the multiplayer section and the calm.

Modifié par Bob the Elcor, 29 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[Taboo]

ShepComing4U wrote...

So, please explain why, instead of making their "Thralls" not create Synthetics, they choose to create their own. I'm sorry, but it seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Because they can't contol everything. It isn't feasible.

Hubris. Arrogance.

They thought they were right because they were them.

This story is as old as time itself.

[Tankcommander]

Ithurael wrote...

AlRPG wrote...

If they could control the "lesser" species. Couldn't they just stop them from building the dangerous AI?

That bugged the hell outta me.

Still bugging the hell outta me. Huge plot hole, one of several new ones...

[Ghost]

The Angry One wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Being fallable is one thing. Being a collosal idiot with no logic whatsoever and an estimated IQ of 1 is quite another.

The Reapers and their creators are now the latter.

Well, the Leviathans are, as I said before: arrogant, self-absorbed jack-asses.  So full of themselves they considered themselves the dominant lifeform in the entire galaxy.

And that they were so full of themselves they didn't stop to think about the implications of what they were doing isn't bad writing.

It is, because they establish that they KNOW it's a bad idea. They've SEEN the consequences of it. Then they do it anyway.

An example of fallibility and hubris would be, the Leviathans desired order, and therefore created an AI to maintain order. The AI then came up with the most efficient way to maintain order in it's mind and killed it's creators.
But of course this explanation would have to ditch Mac's sub-Battlestar Galactica organics vs. synthetics cycle nonsense and we can't have that.

Ghost1017 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

All of TOA posts are invalid because TOA refused to answer my question because I was right.

Who is TOA?

TAO ignores my posts because I proved her wrong awhile ago and she couldn't take it.

Asking me to marry you is not proving me wrong,. laddie.

You forget then my sweets. 

[Pedro Costa]

Taboo-XX wrote...
It's about hubris. Arrogance.

And Shepard can stop it once and for all.

Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides to control the Reapers?
Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides the future of all of the galaxy's life forms by throwing themself into a green beam?
Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides to sacrifice EDI and a whole species to stop the Reapers?

If this story is about hubris and arrogance, the endings only portray such themes as good things, since one way or another, Shepard's being an arrogant SOB.

[Dean_the_Young]

C9316 wrote...

I guess when you're that full of yourself you also fail to notice you're doing the exact same thing that resulted in other people's destruction..

Are you capable of successfully driving a vehicle without killing yourself? Then congratulations: you've done the exact same thing( driving) that resulted in other people's destruction, without being destroyed.

All people are not equally capable. More capable beings can do things that less capable beings fail at.

[Ticonderoga117]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ShepComing4U wrote...

So, please explain why, instead of making their "Thralls" not create Synthetics, they choose to create their own. I'm sorry, but it seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Because they can't contol everything. It isn't feasible.

Hubris. Arrogance.

They thought they were right because they were them.

This story is as old as time itself.

"Hey! Your god tells you to not make thinking machines. *Populace bows and obeys* Here's some blankets and pizza, while I take the gold. Thanks fellas." *Flies away*

You don't always need to control them all the time to accomplish the same thing.

[JShepppp]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ShepComing4U wrote...

So, please explain why, instead of making their "Thralls" not create Synthetics, they choose to create their own. I'm sorry, but it seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Because they can't contol everything. It isn't feasible.

Hubris. Arrogance.

They thought they were right because they were them.

This story is as old as time itself.

^What Taboo said. The Leviathans themselves note that they did not foresee what the Catalyst would ultimately do because they were the apex race and couldn't conceive of anyone going against them. This, combined with their oversight on programming the Catalyst (..."at any cost"), reeks of hubris. 

It also doesn't help that they ultimately end up fighting not for you, the atrocities of the cycles, or even for redemption and say they're "sorry" - they fight because they're the apex predators and by God them Reapers owe them some tribute in blood. 

Really, such an a**hole race. Granted, they're apex predators and all, but still. 

As Taboo said, pride being the downfall of people is a timeless classic in human stories, dating thousands of years ago in religious texts and all. 

Modifié par JShepppp, 29 août 2012 - 02:37 .

[RiouHotaru]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Or a story about how people don't take responsibility for their creations.

Everything that happened could have been prevented. It's a tragedy of cosmic proportions.

At some point, someone thought they knew best and made a decision that resulted in quintillions been killed and preserved in Reaper form.

It's about hubris. Arrogance.

And Shepard can stop it once and for all.

THIS.  THIS.  RIGHT.  HERE.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
And one of the devs commented on this:

"A few losses along the way were acceptable."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's not preserving life at all costs then. Especially if you're the one doing ALL the killing.
Organic beings preserved by the Catalyst: 0
Years in operation: Millions of millions.

Organic beings preserved by the catalyst = Number of Organic Beings turned into Reapers.

And, as an extension, the prevention of the technological singularity in allowing future lives to develop.

[Ghost]

JShepppp wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

ShepComing4U wrote...

So, please explain why, instead of making their "Thralls" not create Synthetics, they choose to create their own. I'm sorry, but it seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Because they can't contol everything. It isn't feasible.

Hubris. Arrogance.

They thought they were right because they were them.

This story is as old as time itself.

^What Taboo said. The Leviathans themselves note that they did not foresee what the Catalyst would ultimately do because they were the apex race and couldn't conceive of anyone going against them. This, combined with their oversight on programming the Catalyst (..."at any cost"), reeks of hubris. 

It also doesn't help that they ultimately end up fighting not for you, the atrocities of the cycles, or even for redemption and say they're "sorry" - they fight because they're the apex predators and by God them Reapers owe them some tribute in blood. 

Really, such an a**hole race. Granted, they're apex predators and all, but still. 

As Taboo said, pride being the downfall of people is a timeless classic in human stories, dating thousands of years ago in religious texts and all. 

They respect Shepard as a leader though.

[Taboo]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
It's about hubris. Arrogance.

And Shepard can stop it once and for all.

Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides to control the Reapers?
Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides the future of all of the galaxy's life forms by throwing themself into a green beam?
Shepard? The one who thinks so much of themself that decides to sacrifice EDI and a whole species to stop the Reapers?

If this story is about hubris and arrogance, the endings only portray such themes as good things, since one way or another, Shepard's being an arrogant SOB.

And in the end that's what it takes. That's how war is. The difference is that Shepard was given permission to use the Crucible.

My Shepard believes that limited interference is the best solution. The Geth are already dead. He Destroys the Reapers and survives.

If anyone wishes to confront him about his actions they may do so.

And you can bet he'll do it without hesitation.

[C9316]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

C9316 wrote...

I guess when you're that full of yourself you also fail to notice you're doing the exact same thing that resulted in other people's destruction..

Are you capable of successfully driving a vehicle without killing yourself? Then congratulations: you've done the exact same thing( driving) that resulted in other people's destruction, without being destroyed.

All people are not equally capable. More capable beings can do things that less capable beings fail at.

But in this case that's completely false now isn't it? They created a machine, which ultimately destroyed a great deal of them just like their less capable thralls. You'd think this would be a wake-up call, but they still seem as arrogant as they were when they were the apex of life.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Here's another problem: Levi's race hates Reapers. Why not mind control a ton of people in the middle of the current cycle and command them to build up to fight the Reapers?

Because the Reapers would simply fly over and Reap the galaxy before it could build up strong enough?

It's not like the Reapers are blind to the comings and goings of the galaxy, thanks to Sovereign/the Collections/their various artifacts.

[Ticonderoga117]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Organic beings preserved by the catalyst = Number of Organic Beings turned into Reapers.
And, as an extension, the prevention of the technological singularity in allowing future lives to develop.

Nope. That's no preservation. Preservation would be like cryo-stasis or something. Not using a big giant laser or blending machine.

Plus, there was never the problem of the tech singulairty! Just the Terminator problem.

[Dean_the_Young]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Taboo, there's no point.  For everyone, the fact Leviathan didn't change anything (despite Bioware stating it wouldn't change anything) is a self-fullfilling prophecy.  We've already pointed out the fact that NOTHING in Leviathan contradicts what we already knew or were told.  At this point they're just fabricating context.

No, it just makes it hard to believe in the Reapers threat and efficiency when they leave blueprints for a weapon that can wipe them out around for the next cycle to pick up,

They don't intend to do so.

when they leave prothean VIs just there,

The Reapers don't leave them. The Protheans hid them.

when they let Protheans build a Mass Relay in the Citadel,

It's pretty implicit in ME1 that the Reapers were unaware of that.

and now when they leave the very first sentient species we know of in the galaxy survive to present ME-verse time.

They also haven't been able to find the very first sentient species we know of.

It is one failure too many for something with the explicit objective of stopping a potential AI armaggedon while reseting the Galaxy's technological playing field. This singularity the brat so much fears hasn't happened by either sheer, stupid luck or because the AIs really don't care about wiping out all organic life.
The Reapers are slowly becoming Cerberus.

It's a pretty silly failure to get hid up around, because it's been a consistent one: the Reapers are not, and never have been, omniscient.

[Pedro Costa]

Taboo-XX wrote...
And in the end that's what it takes. That's how war is. The difference is that Shepard was given permission to use the Crucible.

Then the story fails.

My Shepard believes that limited interference is the best solution. The Geth are already dead. He Destroys the Reapers and survives.

If anyone wishes to confront him about his actions they may do so.

And you can bet he'll do it without hesitation.

Same as mine, but it doesn't invalidate that the theme of arrogance is bad, yet thou must be arrogant to win is pretty screwed up.

[Ihatebadgames]

Bob the Elcor wrote...

With major confusion, I forgot how hectic the storyline forums are, it is starting to hurt my head, with hopefulness, could someone please tell me if Leviathian is worth buying, then I will be retreating back to the multiplayer section and the calm.

I enjoyed the small addition to the storyline.But it added a ton of "WTF were they thinking?" to the already love/hate, let's argue about ending.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Organic beings preserved by the catalyst = Number of Organic Beings turned into Reapers.
And, as an extension, the prevention of the technological singularity in allowing future lives to develop.

Nope. That's no preservation. Preservation would be like cryo-stasis or something. Not using a big giant laser or blending machine.

The Reapers consider it preservation. The Geth more or less agree, understanding the Reaper minds as ascended minds of the victims.

Plus, there was never the problem of the tech singulairty! Just the Terminator problem.

The Reapers disprove that. A self-fulfilling prophesy they might have been, but a fulfilled prophesy none the less. The motivations of the technological singularity are less important than its effects.