69 réponses à ce sujet

[Nash Latkje]

Can we choose not to generalise things? There are good mages, bad mages, good templars, bad templars, etc. I'd rather deal with them as individuals, instead of being forced to accept/reject anyone just because they belong to a particular group by choice or otherwise.

[Darth Death]

Not sure if it's just me or not, but I got the impression DA2 tried its very hardest to get me to hate mages. It felt like there were a lot more crazy mages than crazy templars. Not to mention how the mages were about to kill Hawke's sibling & the death of Hawke's mother. And the fact orsino uses the same (blood) magic as the guy who kills Hawke's mom.

[Renmiri1]

I did try.. Told a romanced Anders the Templars were right when he comes to console Hawke. He said something like "if you need to be angry at someone, be angry at me. I will be here for you". That was so sweet it disarmed my Hawke.,,

Modifié par Renmiri1, 29 août 2012 - 02:58 .

[Treacherous J Slither]

There were a lot crazy mages in Kirkwall but most of time when you were fighting for your life, you were fighting MUNDANES. The sheer number of bandits in that city far outweigh whatever threat the mages could pose. To me anyway.

[Treacherous J Slither]

They are all just people. Mage or warrior they are still just people. Quentin was a nutjob and a murderer. Was he that way because he was a mage? Nope. It would make sense for Hawke to be anit-murderering nutjob after that incident but not anti-mage. Especially seeing as how his own father was a mage and his sister- who he spent a great deal of time protecting- is also a mage.

[Treacherous J Slither]

They are all just people. Mage or warrior they are still just people. Quentin was a nutjob and a murderer. Was he that way because he was a mage? Nope. It would make sense for Hawke to be anit-murderering nutjob after that incident but not anti-mage. Especially seeing as how his own father was a mage and his sister- who he spent a great deal of time protecting- is also a mage.


Whoops. Double post.

Modifié par JSlither, 29 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[SerTabris]

There's also the case where Hawke is a mage herself. A bit of trouble getting angry at mages then. I would think most people would avoid hasty generalizations when the group includes themselves.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Also, Hawke is running into evil and/or crazy PEOPLE. Whether they wielded magic or swords there were a lot of PEOPLE that Hawke had to fight.

Every single mage character in the game NPC or otherwise doesn't compare to the sheer number of just the mundane bandits that Hawke has to fight in the streets at night. They're all over the place. A plague upon the city. Yet the people with freaking healing powers are the ones that have got to go. Ridiculous.

[Xilizhra]

So after Act 1 you have Merrill, a blood, Anders, an abomination, and a city full of crazy mages with a handful of decent mages. Doesn't it make much more sense for Hawke to be anti-mage?

No.

But would Hawke have that sort of perspective after his mom is murdered by a mage and just about every mage you run into is either evil or crazy?

Of course. If not, it's Hawke's own failure.

[Kabraxal]

Surprinigly in one playthrough my mageHawke did turn on the Circle after the death in Act 2. It was only further reinforced with Legacy.

It varies from character to character though... not every Hawke has that reaction.

[dragonflight288]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Nash Latkje wrote...

Can we choose not to generalise things? There are good mages, bad mages, good templars, bad templars, etc. I'd rather deal with them as individuals, instead of being forced to accept/reject anyone just because they belong to a particular group by choice or otherwise.

The game forces you to choose, not me. You're talking about it like its a real problem. The game says "Choose a side, these people that are different or these people that are not." But I'm talking about the choice you're forced to make from the limited perspective Hawke has.

On my first playthrough, my Hawke's experience was a little different.

My Hawke was a mage. He was trained by an apostate father who was once part of the Circle. His sister was also a mage. His brother, Carver, decided to join the Templars in a hissy fit because he didn't get to go on a life-threatening adventure after mother implored at least one of us to stay because of the danger.

My Hawke, as a mage, wouldn't generalize mages. He would be constantly leery of the templars, annoyed with his brother for not thinking his decision through (using it to get back at Hawke in a childish temper tantrum,) and generally thinking all templars were idiots for not recognizing him as a mage despite all the things he's done.

He strongly advocated mage freedom and was more than ready to help other mages. His perspective was pretty simple. They go straight to the blood magic or killing people to make a point, kill them. If they don't, at least hear them out, and then possibly kill them.

[TEWR]

I think I did once. Or I played an anti-mage Mage who went pro-mage after Meredith's uncalled for RoA announcement.

Though honestly, the real fault of Leandra's death lies on the shoulders and at the feet of the Templars -- and by extension, the City Guard. Hawke's also to blame, but it was never his/her official issue, though it was an issue that threatened his/her life in Kirkwall and friends in Kirkwall.

I was disappointed that I couldn't shout back to Meredith "It's your fault my mother died at that madman's hands!" after she had the audacity to bring up Leandra's death.

At least Cullen had the sense of mind to admit such in Act 2. He actually admitted that the Templars were to blame for Quentin having done so much.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 août 2012 - 05:50 .

[Xilizhra]

BrotherWarth wrote...

JSlither wrote...

They are all just people. Mage or warrior they are still just people. Quentin was a nutjob and a murderer. Was he that way because he was a mage? Nope. It would make sense for Hawke to be anit-murderering nutjob after that incident but not anti-mage. Especially seeing as how his own father was a mage and his sister- who he spent a great deal of time protecting- is also a mage.

I think you're looking at this from a meta-gaming perspective and not the perspective of Hawke.
Sure, people should view everyone in that way. But pretty much no one actually does. I know everyone wants to think they don't generalize and prejudge but we all do in some way, shape or form.

I get the feeling that you're trying to speak from the perspective of all Hawkes, which begins to irritate me because you certainly don't speak for mine. In any case, Hawke has had quite a long time to get used to mages just being people, with Malcolm, Bethany, and potentially herself. There's no reason this perspective would have to be lost just because one nut killed Leandra.

[Kabraxal]

Faerunner wrote...

^ Should't Malcolm and Bethany, warrior/rogue Hawke's own father and sister, whom he or she has grown up with and seen to be good people, be enough to engrain the understanding that mages are people more thoroughly than one man's crime? If Hawke suddenly turned on all mages and thought of them all as dangerous beasts or inhuman monsters just because of one obviosuly dellusional madman's crime, despite also being related to and growing up with good people who happen to be mages... then I'm sorry, but I think that Hawke is the one who has problems.

"My mom married a good, honourable man who saved her from a bleak existence, made her happy, set up a nice life for her and for us, and I take after him in my overall personality... but this psycho killed her, so all mages are evil!" "My younger sister Bethany is/was a good, sensible, kind young lady that always looked after mother and hero-worshipped me (and was even better-tempered than Arver, who used to nail her pigtails to the bed while she slept), but some psycho killed mom so all mages are nutters!" Yuh huh. Sure. More believable.

Not necessarily... they can look at it as the exemption to the rule.  And given how many mages are bad in DA2 and the tragedy they cause for Hawke, it's quite reasonable for even a mageHawke to start seeing mages as needed to be collared.  Not saying every Hawke will feel this way, just know this because I RPed a Hawke that surprised me when Leandra died that she agreed with the antimagic crowd despite being a mage.  Didn't go in planning that, just happened.

[SgtElias]

Kabraxal wrote...

Not saying every Hawke will feel this way, just know this because I RPed a Hawke that surprised me when Leandra died that she agreed with the antimagic crowd despite being a mage.  Didn't go in planning that, just happened.

I love when that happens; you think you've got your character figured out, and then they do something or react in some way that you weren't expecting at all. Except for my "canon" characters (who I can always predict, because I just make the decisions I would make in their place), every one of my eight Wardens and eight Hawkes have done this. Man, I love that.

BrotherWarth wrote...

Anyway, has anyone here ever done a playthrough where you were pro-mage/pro magefreedom but decided to go anti-mage/pro-templar after Quentin kills your mother?

I love the idea of this, because I can logically see how a rogue or warrior Hawke would jump to this conclusion after the death of her/his mother, but sadly I've never done it. I know it's meta-gaming, but before making characters I usually plan what sorts of big decisions they're going to make beforehand, because I just can't bring myself to make decisions I believe are seriously morally wrong. So I don't, for example, have an Origins save where I convinced the werewovles to slaughter the Dalish. And I also don't have a Hawke that sided with the Templars.

I know, I know. Metagaming. Call me pathetic, but that's just how I play.

BrotherWarth wrote...

I could only stand romancing Anders when I played a male mage who hated the Chantry as much as he did. He was more tolerable when he wanted the same thing. Otherwise... blech.

My first character was a female mage who (usually) agreed with everything that came out of his mouth, and romanced him, so I didn't really experience how pissy Anders could get until I made subsequent characters. I learned a lot about his character by daring to point out he can be a tad hypocritical.

Oh well. Can't help it. Like him anyway.

Modifié par SgtElias, 29 août 2012 - 08:50 .

[Sharn01]

I went anti-human. It was a human who killed her so clearly all humans are evil and must be destroyed.

[esper]

Well, you could certainly make a Hawke that make that leap, after all from a rp-perspective generalization and placing blame is something very human,

Mine never do it, though. Since they tend to be mages themselves and I could never play a Hawke who sided with the templars for real.

All that remains have the most profound effect on my main Hawke. It breaks her and Avelines friendship. Aveline was with her when they found Nínette. She said that she would investigate it, and yet it ended up where it ended. And when my Hawke argue with her after All that remains, Aveline had the audacity to suggest that Hawke was merely lashing out because she was hurting. That Hawke never forgave her.

[sylvanaerie]

None of my playthroughs were 'anti-mage', though I have sided templars twice, it was strictly for story purposes, to see different scenes/endings. Even my most angry Hawke's never blamed all mages for something one whack job did. One of my Hawke's was such a pacifist she even forgave what's his name (the blood mage who helps you find Leandra) for the part he played in her death.

Ultimately, Quentin didn't kill Leandra because he was a mage, he killed her because he was a grief stricken whacko with necromancy. Hating all mages because of what one whacko did would mean I'd side with templars every game thanks to Anders, but as it is I've done it exactly twice, once on a mage (to see scenes with Templar Carver), and a warrior (with Circle Bethany).

I know, not a good RP reason, but *shrug* as one person up thread posted, some decisions you make deliberately going in on a new character. Usually I play by the scene, react however I feel the character will react, making each decision as it happens in the game. Keeps it fresh for me through multiple plays. And I couldn't bring myself to hate all mages for the actions of a few sick individuals, so neither can my Hawke.

From an RP perspective I can see it though, I've just never done it myself.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 août 2012 - 09:24 .