49 réponses à ce sujet

[ckriley]

Not trying to be provocative, but seriously, after studying the lore in-game, it seems that the Chantry is obviously the Christian Church, and the Dalish Elves are the Muslims.  I mean, can it be more obvious?  After the fall of the empire, the Dalish settled in the Dales to make a home for themselves.  And all was going well until the Chantry became upset with the elves for worshipping their own gods and not adhering to Christia..er...the Chantry.  So they launched the Crusades against the elves to force them to live under Chantry law.

Sound familiar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

This is taken right out of the pages of world history.  That's a bold move on BioWare's part.  Don't know why I'm only now connecting the dots after all this time.  But there's even a conversation in the Dalish camp when you're doing the elven questline where some of your dialogue options (if you're playing a human) seems to take the view that humans were attacked first.  And that the Musli...er...elves are hostile, and their views are violent to anyone not elven.

The immediate reaction to the elves when I first played it was, "Oh these are the Native Americans.  Had their land taken and all of that."  But then I read all the stuff about the Crusades...er...Great March?...and realized these were not necessarily Native Americans.

Very curious to see where BW takes the Dalish story from here. 

[robertthebard]

Christianity = Monotheistic

Islam = Monotheistic

Dalish = Polytheistic-The Creators

Chantry = Monotheistic- The Maker



Big flaw with your idea? If we want to compare this to historical religious conflicts, we're going to have to go back a bit further than that. Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome both had Polytheistic religions. In the Dalish quest line, all those clickable statues and such are their Gods, or some of them.

[KalosCast]

Not even close. Actually, the whole militaristic spread and start of the Chantry as we know it, the prophet and leader of conquering armies, is rather similar to the beginnings of Islam as well. The disdain for polytheism can be found in both.

[Apophis2412]

The City elves, with their Arranged marriages, ghettos and lost homeland, seem to be more like the Jews.



The Dalish are not like the muslims. Is there any record of a lost muslim homeland? Did the muslims help Jezus and the Christians to overthrow an evil empire?

[KalosCast]

Apophis2412 wrote...

The City elves, with their Arranged marriages, ghettos and lost homeland, seem to be more like the Jews.

The Dalish are not like the muslims. Is there any record of a lost muslim homeland? Did the muslims help Jezus and the Christians to overthrow an evil empire?

Well, depending on which areas you hailed from in the Muslim world, the Byzantine Empire  -was- the Evil Empire (and other allied Christain states). It's been metioned the Tevinters were modelled after the Byzantines

[Apophis2412]

KalosCast wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

The City elves, with their Arranged marriages, ghettos and lost homeland, seem to be more like the Jews.

The Dalish are not like the muslims. Is there any record of a lost muslim homeland? Did the muslims help Jezus and the Christians to overthrow an evil empire?

Well, depending on which areas you hailed from in the Muslim world, the Byzantine Empire  -was- the Evil Empire (and other allied Christain states). It's been metioned the Tevinters were modelled after the Byzantines

But was the Byzantine empire overthrown by an army led by a Christian prophet?  As I recall it was the Ottoman Turks who did that.

[mousestalker]

Qunari= Islam x Borg x Buddhism

Dalish = pagans (Google Teutonic Knights)

City Elves = Jews

Tevinter Imperium = Roman, then Byzantine Empire

Orlais= France

Anderfels = Germany

with significant variations of course.



And the Chantry is far more militant than Christianity ever was. Andraste started out with a holy war.

[mousestalker]

Apophis2412 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

The City elves, with their Arranged marriages, ghettos and lost homeland, seem to be more like the Jews.

The Dalish are not like the muslims. Is there any record of a lost muslim homeland? Did the muslims help Jezus and the Christians to overthrow an evil empire?

Well, depending on which areas you hailed from in the Muslim world, the Byzantine Empire  -was- the Evil Empire (and other allied Christain states). It's been metioned the Tevinters were modelled after the Byzantines

But was the Byzantine empire overthrown by an army led by a Christian prophet?  As I recall it was the Ottoman Turks who did that.

4th Crusade did that. And there are no Christian prophets. Y'all need to stop look for direct equivalents and think of actual history as inspirations for the story elements. There aren't any 1 for 1 matches. Which is a good thing.

[Original182]

Yeah OP, stop trying to insinuate something that isn't there. Shame on you!

[Fleapants]

It's been mentioned that the Qunari was inspired partly by arab muslims (Qun ~ Qu'ran), partly by Borgs, and I believe that they've already been a target of a Crus- erh, Exalted March?

So there's your muslims.

[robertthebard]

mousestalker wrote...

Qunari= Islam x Borg x Buddhism
Dalish = pagans (Google Teutonic Knights)
City Elves = Jews
Tevinter Imperium = Roman, then Byzantine Empire
Orlais= France
Anderfels = Germany
with significant variations of course.

And the Chantry is far more militant than Christianity ever was. Andraste started out with a holy war.

While I won't disagree with the basic characterizations, that last line isn't exactly true.  Christianity has had it's brutal period in history as well, The Crusades, and the Inquisition come to mind.  South America was converted at sword point.

[mousestalker]

I respond thusly.

Modifié par mousestalker, 24 décembre 2009 - 11:04 .

[FlintlockJazz]

robertthebard wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Qunari= Islam x Borg x Buddhism
Dalish = pagans (Google Teutonic Knights)
City Elves = Jews
Tevinter Imperium = Roman, then Byzantine Empire
Orlais= France
Anderfels = Germany
with significant variations of course.

And the Chantry is far more militant than Christianity ever was. Andraste started out with a holy war.

While I won't disagree with the basic characterizations, that last line isn't exactly true.  Christianity has had it's brutal period in history as well, The Crusades, and the Inquisition come to mind.  South America was converted at sword point.

Was planning on pointing this out too.   Christianity was a lot more militant religion than it is now, while Islam was actually quite peaceful until it spread to the Turks, and even then the Crusades were the main force behind the militarisation of Islam.

[robertthebard]

mousestalker wrote...

I respond thusly.

LOL, but I just got out of bed...

[mousestalker]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Qunari= Islam x Borg x Buddhism
Dalish = pagans (Google Teutonic Knights)
City Elves = Jews
Tevinter Imperium = Roman, then Byzantine Empire
Orlais= France
Anderfels = Germany
with significant variations of course.

And the Chantry is far more militant than Christianity ever was. Andraste started out with a holy war.

While I won't disagree with the basic characterizations, that last line isn't exactly true.  Christianity has had it's brutal period in history as well, The Crusades, and the Inquisition come to mind.  South America was converted at sword point.

Was planning on pointing this out too.   Christianity was a lot more militant religion than it is now, while Islam was actually quite peaceful until it spread to the Turks, and even then the Crusades were the main force behind the militarisation of Islam.

No. Just no. Islam started out as a jihad and spread by means of war from its very beginnings. If you wanna bash Christianity, go ahead. But don't mistate history this way. Before you say such things you may wish to actually study Islam. The Koran is a good starting point. Mohammed was the Prophet and he was also a war leader in Islam. To that extent the Chantry is a lot like Islam.

[robertthebard]

OMG, the earliest recorded use of the Murder Knife:



Are you going to come over the mercy and love of my God?



No.



*Murder knife.*

[Few87]

ha i thought this was a joke thread like the others but then i realised, i think hes being serious which just makes it even more funny!

[Original182]

Clever troll posts can disguise themselves so well, that only some people can detect it. I remember the best troll post I read from the WoW forums, was someone arguing dwarves are overpowered because they have treasure finding. The most memorable line was:

"Dwarves are a popular race, only 3rd picked behind humans and night elves."

He worded it to mean dwarves have an unfair advantage that makes them popular, but in reality there are only 4 alliance races back then.

A lot of people bought it and argued against the OP. Nowdays it's just kids going "you suck" and a flamefest ensues.

Modifié par Original182, 24 décembre 2009 - 11:15 .

[mousestalker]

But everyone who posts on the interwebz is totally sincere. People would never abuse the ability to post anonymously by trying to stir up trouble.

[FlintlockJazz]

mousestalker wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Qunari= Islam x Borg x Buddhism
Dalish = pagans (Google Teutonic Knights)
City Elves = Jews
Tevinter Imperium = Roman, then Byzantine Empire
Orlais= France
Anderfels = Germany
with significant variations of course.

And the Chantry is far more militant than Christianity ever was. Andraste started out with a holy war.

While I won't disagree with the basic characterizations, that last line isn't exactly true.  Christianity has had it's brutal period in history as well, The Crusades, and the Inquisition come to mind.  South America was converted at sword point.

Was planning on pointing this out too.   Christianity was a lot more militant religion than it is now, while Islam was actually quite peaceful until it spread to the Turks, and even then the Crusades were the main force behind the militarisation of Islam.

No. Just no. Islam started out as a jihad and spread by means of war from its very beginnings. If you wanna bash Christianity, go ahead. But don't mistate history this way. Before you say such things you may wish to actually study Islam. The Koran is a good starting point. Mohammed was the Prophet and he was also a war leader in Islam. To that extent the Chantry is a lot like Islam.

I'm not bashing Christianity, the very first guys were pretty decent, shame it was rapidly taken over and misused by those in power with no actual faith in the religion, as with all establishments.  I have studied Islam, they were no more violent than any other religion, actually empowered women at the start (before it was sadly corrupted and used to control them), and did not start as aJihad as you claim, so how about you stop bashing other religions before complaining about other people doing the same?

[Original182]

You fools! You are falling into the OP's trap.

[FlintlockJazz]

Original182 wrote...

You fools! You are falling into the OP's trap.

You forgot to add the man (fish)...

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 24 décembre 2009 - 11:25 .

[mousestalker]

So, Iran wasn't conquered. Neither were Syria, Mesopotamia, or Egypt. Muhammed never massacred an entire city. Or entire tribes. The wars of succession unhappened.



It's always grand when someone takes a stand against the entire historical record.

[mousestalker]

Can't stop! Someone is wrong!

[FlintlockJazz]

mousestalker wrote...

So, Iran wasn't conquered. Neither were Syria, Mesopotamia, or Egypt. Muhammed never massacred an entire city. Or entire tribes. The wars of succession unhappened.

It's always grand when someone takes a stand against the entire historical record.

So they fought against other people, big whoop so did Christianity, so did most other religions.  It wasn't a Jihad though, those came later, and it wasn't 'born' from a Jihad.  Just leave it okay, discussing religion on the internet is just going to anger people.  Besides, everyone knows Stewie is the only religion of worth, and he has come to destroy all heathens!