32 réponses à ce sujet

[LucasShark]

This is something I've been afraid of since Leviathan dropped and I discovered the "secret" it reveals... and that is this: it is starting to remind me of one of the most imfamous segments in comic history: the clone saga.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is the super short version:
- At one point Spiderman fought a villain who's big thing was cloning, particularly cloning spiderman and the then dead Gwen Stacey (it's complicated)
- The story wrapped up well enough and was left to sleep for a while
- Then someone tried to be clever: another guy dressed as spiderman showed up, as it turned out THIS was the clone from before, now calling himself Ben Reilly
- For a while, they toyed with the idea of Peter Parker settling down with Mary Jane, and Ben would become the new spiderman
- People were pissed, understandably so because this should have been over
- After that, and realizing how unpopular this was, Marvel decided that no: in fact this Ben Reilly guy was really Peter Parker, and the other guy was the clone, and I'm sure you can see where this is going
- A LOT of stupidity followed, with Marvel even reaching a point of self-parody where they released something entitled "1001 ways to end the clone saga"

How does this relate to what Bioware is doing right now?  Well here goes:
- They released ME3, and realized their ending was wildly unpopular, I mean let's face it, we are still griping about it, and that dislike has focussed in large part on the Catalyst and the Crucible
- BOTH DLCs thus far have largely been about justifying/explaining the existance of the catalyst, and the laughably stupid origin of him, the crucible, and the reapers

What I am afraid of: every DLC will be about explaining, rather than working arround the POS ending.  And it will get really, really stupid by the end.

Let it die.

Modifié par LucasShark, 29 août 2012 - 06:17 .

[fil009]

I'm thinking that this is enough explanation as well. Too much explanation will only tie Bioware's hands for future DLC, games, and other content. We know how the Repears came to be; now focus on the future with Leviathan, please don't go further back.

Modifié par fil009, 29 août 2012 - 05:57 .

[LucasShark]

Droidsbane42 wrote...

Bioware really dug themeselves into a hole trying to explain anything to do with the ending.

bet the next DLC will try to explain the crucibles origins

Ah yes the crucible... or as I've occasionally called it:
- The giant comittee designed magic lamp with the universe's crappiest genie
- or The universes most expensive and overly complicated summoning circle
- or Bioware's writing team did a woopsy in its pants

[Foolsfolly]

LucasShark wrote...

This is something I've been afraid of since Leviathan dropped and I discovered the "secret" it reveals... and that is this: it is starting to remind me of one of the most imfamous segments in comic history: the clone saga.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is the super short version:
- At one point Spiderman fought a villain who's big thing was cloning, particularly cloning spiderman and the then dead Gwen Stacey (it's complicated)
- The story wrapped up well enough and was left to sleep for a while
- Then someone tried to be clever: another guy dressed as spiderman showed up, as it turned out THIS was the clone from before, now calling himself Ben Riley
- For a while, they toyed with the idea of Peter Parker settling down with Mary Jane, and Ben would become the new spiderman
- People were pissed, understandably so because this should have been over
- After that, and realizing how unpopular this was, Marvel decided that no: in fact this Ben riley guy was really Peter Parker, and the other guy was the clone, and I'm sure you can see where this is going
- A LOT of stupidity followed, with Marvel even reaching a point of self-parody where they released something entitled "1001 ways to end the clone saga"

How does this relate to what Bioware is doing right now?  Well here goes:
- They released ME3, and realized their ending was wildly unpopular, I mean let's face it, we are still griping about it, and that dislike has focussed in large part on the Catalyst and the Crucible
- BOTH DLCs thus far have largely been about justifying/explaining the existance of the catalyst, and the laughably stupid origin of him, the crucible, and the reapers

What I am afraid of: every DLC will be about explaining, rather than working arround the POS ending.  And it will get really, really stupid by the end.

Let it die.

::puts cigar in mouth::

::chews it for a moment::

Goddamnit, it is the Clone Saga.

[ticklefist]

I remember when I tried to get into comics for the first time. Spider-Man in particular. He was calling himself Ben Reilly and was wearing jeans and a muscle shirt. WTF! I stuck it out for a few months, even supplemented with the Green Goblin solo book that was out at the time. Some Fantastic Four and Generation X. Then the Onslaught/Heroes Reborn thing happened and I was like "FFUUUU comics!"

inb4 cool story.

Modifié par ticklefist, 29 août 2012 - 06:07 .

[Memnon]

I almost think it's beyond salvaging - I can't speak for anyone else, but my enthusiasm and interest are pretty much gone now after watching Leviathan on youtube. Which is sad, because this has been one of my favorite series ever - I own CEs of all of the games, and have Shepard and Grunt figurines on my desk. But the more I learn about the origin of the Reapers, the creators, the more they keep adding to the story, the less I want to be a part of it.

[LucasShark]

ticklefist wrote...

I remember when I tried to get into comics for the first time. Spider-Man in particular. He was calling himself Ben Reilly and was wearing jeans and a muscle shirt. WTF! I stuck it out for a few months, even supplemented with the Green Goblin solo book that was out at the time. Some Fantastic Four and Generation X. Then the Onslaught/Heroes Reborn thing happened and I was like "FFUUUU comics!"

inb4 cool story.

Telling or not that the Escapist has a regular segment with the intro line "COMICS ARE WEIRD!" precisely because of rubbish like that.  I'm at best a mid-level comics geek, don't even bother trying to sort out stuff as it comes out.

[LucasShark]

Stornskar wrote...

I almost think it's beyond salvaging - I can't speak for anyone else, but my enthusiasm and interest are pretty much gone now after watching Leviathan on youtube. Which is sad, because this has been one of my favorite series ever - I own CEs of all of the games, and have Shepard and Grunt figurines on my desk. But the more I learn about the origin of the Reapers, the creators, the more they keep adding to the story, the less I want to be a part of it.

Likewise, my christmas present a year ago from my best friend was a Normandy SR2 model, because I wouldn't shut up about the series.

It's also too bad they seem to be dead-set on destroying the mystique (comic name drop) of the Reapers, they were some of the first truly original sci-fi villains I'd seen for a while, Cthulu esque instead of just "Evil alien empire" or "infectious mindless force".  This was amazing, the enemy we fought litterally didn't give a toss about us, they didn't want our planets, or power over us, this is scary stuff.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Maybe if you give them a couple million dollars they'll listen.

[LucasShark]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe if you give them a couple million dollars they'll listen.

Ah greed, the thing which killed Bioware slowly from within... rather ironic considering their story involves mind corrupting.

[LucasShark]

Droidsbane42 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Droidsbane42 wrote...
Bioware really dug themeselves into a hole trying to explain anything to do with the ending.

bet the next DLC will try to explain the crucibles origins

Ah yes the crucible... or as I've occasionally called it:
- The giant comittee designed magic lamp with the universe's crappiest genie
- or The universes most expensive and overly complicated summoning circle
- or Bioware's writing team did a woopsy in its pants

I often call it the giant AA battery thats being built ecen though no one knows exactly what it does

Also valid, which is hillarious, as it means the citadel is what is actually doing all the space magic...

[halbert986]

It's already really really stupid. It was really really stupid on day 1.

Then lo and behold a savior came unto them by the name of Indoctrination theory. A fix all. A do over button. The perfect way out of a badly written ending. Not only does it save your franchise, it makes you look like a genius and your game goes down in history as the most interactive video-game to date...

But no I guess we're going with man vs machine and out of control AIs. Cause you know that's totally as good.

[Kristofer1]

i disagree. I strongly believe something like this was planned from the get go. or something along these lines. Klencory mentioned the catalyst type people. I love the leviathan. their race and what not. i believe it is a strong addition to the series and with that addition i no longer totally despise the endings.

[XFerginatorX]

collector looks like a prothean, a geth looks like a quarian, a reaper looks like a leviathan seriously its not cloning. give me a break. it was made after the orginals.

Modifié par XFerginatorX, 29 août 2012 - 07:09 .

[Jaze55]

LucasShark wrote...

This is something I've been afraid of since Leviathan dropped and I discovered the "secret" it reveals... and that is this: it is starting to remind me of one of the most imfamous segments in comic history: the clone saga.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is the super short version:
- At one point Spiderman fought a villain who's big thing was cloning, particularly cloning spiderman and the then dead Gwen Stacey (it's complicated)
- The story wrapped up well enough and was left to sleep for a while
- Then someone tried to be clever: another guy dressed as spiderman showed up, as it turned out THIS was the clone from before, now calling himself Ben Reilly
- For a while, they toyed with the idea of Peter Parker settling down with Mary Jane, and Ben would become the new spiderman
- People were pissed, understandably so because this should have been over
- After that, and realizing how unpopular this was, Marvel decided that no: in fact this Ben Reilly guy was really Peter Parker, and the other guy was the clone, and I'm sure you can see where this is going
- A LOT of stupidity followed, with Marvel even reaching a point of self-parody where they released something entitled "1001 ways to end the clone saga"

How does this relate to what Bioware is doing right now?  Well here goes:
- They released ME3, and realized their ending was wildly unpopular, I mean let's face it, we are still griping about it, and that dislike has focussed in large part on the Catalyst and the Crucible
- BOTH DLCs thus far have largely been about justifying/explaining the existance of the catalyst, and the laughably stupid origin of him, the crucible, and the reapers

What I am afraid of: every DLC will be about explaining, rather than working arround the POS ending.  And it will get really, really stupid by the end.

Let it die.

UGH! I remember that spiderman crap. I stopped getting that comic about that time actually. 

[Oni Changas]

Things were over explained with the mentioning of catalyst creators in the EC. Now it's dirt on a coffin buried 10 meters deep.

[LucasShark]

XFerginatorX wrote...

collector looks like a prothean, a geth looks like a quarian, a reaper looks like a leviathan seriously its not cloning. give me a break. it was made after the orginals.

Apparently someone didn't actually read the content...

[LadyWench]

LucasShark wrote...
How does this relate to what Bioware is doing right now?  Well here goes:
- They released ME3, and realized their ending was wildly unpopular, I mean let's face it, we are still griping about it, and that dislike has focussed in large part on the Catalyst and the Crucible
- BOTH DLCs thus far have largely been about justifying/explaining the existance of the catalyst, and the laughably stupid origin of him, the crucible, and the reapers

What I am afraid of: every DLC will be about explaining, rather than working arround the POS ending.  And it will get really, really stupid by the end.

Let it die.

Nice (and funny)  tie-in to the Spider-Man Clone Saga. And I agree with you wholeheartedly.

BioWare has been trying to make it seem like they are laying the groundwork for compromise between the original "intent" of the "artists" and the fan feedback, when really it comes off as a lot of covering up their wounded pride and trying to prove "See? SEE? It works! It's not bad! It all makes sense, we can show you and then you'll be sorry. Give us monies now, please!"

I'm not saying there needs to be an apology and I don't expect a company that's still trying to make a profit to come out and say, "Yup, that idea was crap." BUT, at the very least PLEASE stop trying to convince people to like the Catalyst. It's like they so desperately want to change the minds of the fans who don't like it that they are quickly reaching into even more absurd territory instead. And in the end, the funniest part is that more war assests or finding out this information means bunk because it has NO impact on the endings. *le sigh*

Yes, let it go. For all our sakes.

[loungeshep]

Kristofer1 wrote...

i disagree. I strongly believe something like this was planned from the get go. or something along these lines. Klencory mentioned the catalyst type people. I love the leviathan. their race and what not. i believe it is a strong addition to the series and with that addition i no longer totally despise the endings.

This. THough the endings didn't bother me after EC.

Also, I remember the clone saga thing, didn't see any reason to read through them.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Yeah, that's exactly what I fear they'll do. They don't want to change the ending because of "Artistic integrity", and yet knowing they've screwed up so badly the can't just ignore it. So they'll keep adding new pieces and hinting at new content that in the end will amount to nothing. In the end, the situation will be worse than before.

[LucasShark]

Kristofer1 wrote...

i disagree. I strongly believe something like this was planned from the get go. or something along these lines. Klencory mentioned the catalyst type people. I love the leviathan. their race and what not. i believe it is a strong addition to the series and with that addition i no longer totally despise the endings.

And I absolutely hate them, more than I did before.  It is becoming a laberenthine mess of horribleness.  It destroys 2 of 3 of the endings, so now we just have synthesis.  It ruins what little mystique the reapers had left.  "feel sorry for these unstoppable world ending killing machines!  A minimum level of sorrow is required to continue!"  and I could keep going.

[Applepie_Svk]

Droidsbane42 wrote...



bet the next DLC will try to explain the crucibles origins

You wouldn´t know it and there is not enough time to explain ... profit ??? trollface.jpg

[XFerginatorX]

LucasShark wrote...

XFerginatorX wrote...

collector looks like a prothean, a geth looks like a quarian, a reaper looks like a leviathan seriously its not cloning. give me a break. it was made after the orginals.

Apparently someone didn't actually read the content...

actually i did and thats what you were getting at. also no this is in no way related. the DLC was "planned" before the release of ME3. the amount of time it takes to create all the planets with the maps and the characters and the storyboarding also not to forget programming that takes months. A DLC like this is pre-planned.

Modifié par XFerginatorX, 29 août 2012 - 07:29 .