116 réponses à ce sujet

[Mixxer5]

No seriously- those guys are huge. And it seems like much more powerful than any (single) Reaper. How did they become harvested by this AI (spacekid or whatever)? He hadn't any Reaper when he was created- he had to make his army yet. So what- he politely asked Leviathans to become machines? And even if some of them agreed and immediatly became Reapers- how they managed to defeat rest of Leviathans? They were probably more numerous than now- they should've wiped Reapers in no time...

Modifié par Mixxer5, 29 août 2012 - 11:40 .

[plfranke]

It makes no sense

[Mixxer5]

Uhm- what exactly makes no sense?

[Versus Omnibus]

Mixxer5 wrote...

 No seriously- those guys are huge. And it seems like much more powerful than any (single) Reaper. How did they become harvested by this AI (spacekid or whatever)? He hadn't any Reaper when he was created- he had to make his army yet. So what- he politely asked Leviathans to become machines? And even if some of them agreed and immediatly became Reapers- how they managed to defeat rest of Leviathans? They were probably more numerous than now- they should've wiped Reapers in no time...

Despite their size, the Leviathans' power are still limited. They are an aquatic species, so the number of worlds they could live to hide on is small at best; they said they need "lesser" races to provide "tribute" meaning they need slaves to perform tasks for them, cut those off and the Leviathans weaken; also their weapons the Fragments seem to amplify their power, and those appeared to be used at large amounts just to take down one Reaper.

Leviathans are powerful and are the only race that can endanger the Reapers; but they still have weaknesses.

[uzivatel]

Why did they create Catalyst in the first place? They could solve all problems on their own, right? or maybe not.

[Mixxer5]

Ok I understand that their powers are limited- but they can simply turn Reapers off! When intelligence they created (starkid apparently) revolted and started harvesting them... How did he managed to do it? It's like I'd have infinitely (much more than starkid) intelligent AI on my PC. If he goes rogue- than what? I simply pull off the plug. He can be capable of incredible things- but as long as he can't create any real danger, how is he supposed to annihilate me?

EDIT:
Uzivatel: Let's say they were very very lazy But why would they let starkid harvest them in first place to create Reaper?

Modifié par Mixxer5, 29 août 2012 - 11:00 .

[Andy the Black]

Levi said the Catalyst created an amy of pawns to gather data from across the galaxy for it's solution. Then they took the Leviathans by surprise. The codex said that the Leviathans were reliant on there thrulls to built there ships, without "lesser" orcanics the Leviathans would have been vulnerable from a kicking from behind.

[Evelien]

They fell before the power of artistic integrity!

Serious... element of surprise, I guess? The leviathans sound a lot like Sovereign, completely convinced of their own superiority, so probably never saw it coming. Starkid must've had minions before, then replaced them by the reapers.

[BatmanPWNS]

Because Leviathan(s) are a bunch of idiots. That or bad writing. Pick your choice.

[Evelien]

Mixxer5 wrote...

Ok I understand that their powers are limited- but they can simply turn Reapers off! When intelligence they created (starkid apparently) revolted and started harvesting them... How did he managed to do it? It's like I'd have infinitely (much more than starkid) intelligent AI on my PC. If he goes rogue- than what? I simply pull off the plug. He can be capable of incredible things- but as long as he can't create any real danger, how is he supposed to annihilate me?

EDIT:
Uzivatel: Let's say they were very very lazy But why would they let starkid harvest them in first place to create Reaper?

Reapers came after Leviathans. Their power over them probably counted little in the equation.

[fil009]

Yes I too wonder how they were overthrown. Its glossed over quite quickly in the DLC.

[Ajwol Semreth]

uzivatel wrote...

Why did they create Catalyst in the first place? They could solve all problems on their own, right? or maybe not.

They obviously felt they needed a synethic intelligence to come up with a solution to their synethic problem. With hindsight, telling it to perserve organic life at any cost was probably a bit of a derp move on their part.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really think the Leviathan are that much of a threat to the Reapers... They've been hiding in the darkest corners of the Galaxy for billions of years after all out of fear. Sure, they killed a Reaper at the end of the DLC, but it was three against one, with the element of surprise and their power being focused through a multitude of those orbs.

[Soultaker08]

The catalyst took away the support of the lesser races, making them his own slaves.

without support and tribute and with a surprise attack on beings that only can live on water worlds it shouldnt be that hard to take down a massive number of them.... the catalyst could have waited for years of preparation until he turned on them

[Andy the Black]

Also, this isn't realy an original story. I'm sure there was a film in 1984 with the same back story.

[Mixxer5]

It's like saying that North Korea could defeat US army by launching surprise attack... They could make some harm, sure. But they'd be obliterated very fast. Protheans fought with Reapers few hundreds of years and they were much less advanced than Leviathans. And Reapers had much bigger "element of surprise". Leviathans at least knew about existence of starkid and his "army of pawns"

[Versus Omnibus]

uzivatel wrote...

Why did they create Catalyst in the first place? They could solve all problems on their own, right? or maybe not.

Solving the problem was not their concern since they saw it only involved enthralled races. The Leviathans made an AI to solve the problem and over time the Catalyst saw how difficult the problem really was, and came to the conclusion the problem couldn't be solved. So instead, it simply avoided the problem.

So the Cycles started because the Leviathans saw the problem as little (and look what happened.)

[Xellith]

So the Leviathans Created the Catalyst. The Catalyst had some probes or something. With those Probes he defeated the Leviathans and created Harbinger. With Harbinger he started a cycle.

So basically he had decent machines to start with - but then decided to collect races in tin boxes to "preserve them". Even though that the loss of every reaper more or less means that one cycle was pointless.

It would have made more sense to keep a reaper armada in dark space and send the probes or an enhanced version. Sending in the "Reapers" is one of the most STUPID things that it could have done.

"Oh im gonna preserve your species in a reaper and then risk its destruction every single cycle even though I could just keep using these probes or something similar each cycle"

Its DUMB. Bad writing, an idiotic character or BOTH.

[Mixxer5]

Soultaker08 wrote...

The catalyst took away the support of the lesser races, making them his own slaves.

without support and tribute and with a surprise attack on beings that only can live on water worlds it shouldnt be that hard to take down a massive number of them.... the catalyst could have waited for years of preparation until he turned on them

But starkid started having no Reaper at all! Number of Reapers is getting bigger over time (1 per cycle) but it's limited. Hackett says we don't stand a chance without Crucible. So even if those "lesser species" made countless ships- Leviathans should obliterate them!

[Ajwol Semreth]

Mixxer5 wrote...
Protheans fought with Reapers few hundreds of years and they were much less advanced than Leviathans. And Reapers had much bigger "element of surprise". Leviathans at least knew about existence of starkid and his "army of pawns"

True, but the Protheans could also function on their own without the aid of organic thralls. The protheans can live on land, and travel through space without the need of some pretty massive tech in order to sustain them.

Sure, the Leviathans are a powerful race but they're a powerful race with some pretty massive limitations and weaknesses.

Mixxer5 wrote...
So even if those "lesser species" made countless ships- Leviathans should obliterate them!

Why? For all we know that 'mind bullet' trick of theirs might require them to be in close proximity to their target, or to at least have an orb in close proximit through which to launch their attack. Mind bullets can't do **** against a whole fleet bombarding your watery home from the safety of orbit.

Modifié par Ajwol Semreth, 29 août 2012 - 11:14 .

[Mixxer5]

Xellith wrote...

It would have made more sense to keep a reaper armada in dark space and send the probes or an enhanced version. Sending in the "Reapers" is one of the most STUPID things that it could have done.

"Oh im gonna preserve your species in a reaper and then risk its destruction every single cycle even though I could just keep using these probes or something similar each cycle"

Its DUMB. Bad writing, an idiotic character or BOTH.

That's exacty my point. Why spend forces that should be preserved if he's got "lesser species" to do job for him?

[Eterna]

The Reapers didn't defeat the Leviathan.

[Mixxer5]

Ajwol Semreth wrote...


True, but the Protheans could also function on their own without the aid of organic thralls. The protheans can live on land, and travel through space without the need of some pretty massive tech in order to sustain them.

Sure, the Leviathans are a powerful race but they're a powerful race with some pretty massive limitations and weaknesses.

Ah- come on... Leviathans didn't started having control over countless species and (almost) infinite number of thralls. Now they don't have either. And they exist. So they're not and never were dependent on them.

[Mixxer5]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Reapers didn't defeat the Leviathan.

So who did? Flying Spaghetti Monster? They decided to help starkid and obliterated themselves?

Modifié par Mixxer5, 29 août 2012 - 11:14 .

[Versus Omnibus]

Mixxer5 wrote...

Ok I understand that their powers are limited- but they can simply turn Reapers off! When intelligence they created (starkid apparently) revolted and started harvesting them... How did he managed to do it? It's like I'd have infinitely (much more than starkid) intelligent AI on my PC. If he goes rogue- than what? I simply pull off the plug. He can be capable of incredible things- but as long as he can't create any real danger, how is he supposed to annihilate me?

As we could see the Catalyst doesn't simply have some server somewhere that can be destroyed. It grew more advanced over time, and the Leviathans weren't expecting to be betrayed. With an army of pawns, the Leviathans' limits, the betrayal,  and the information the Catalyst gathered by harvesting other Leviathans proved overwhelming.

You can't simply pull a computer's plug if under these circumstances.

[Gimmethayayo]

Mixxer5 wrote...

It's like saying that North Korea could defeat US army by launching surprise attack... They could make some harm, sure. But they'd be obliterated very fast. Protheans fought with Reapers few hundreds of years and they were much less advanced than Leviathans. And Reapers had much bigger "element of surprise". Leviathans at least knew about existence of starkid and his "army of pawns"

Who says the Leviathans were that advanced