107 réponses à ce sujet

[Merlex]

Realmzmaster wrote...

AudioEpics wrote...

You know what, I liked DA2's combat, preferred it to Origins' in fact, but... Come to think of it... I actually think DA3 might work best with completely turn-based combat. Go right back to the tabletop roots! I think DA:O felt slow because it was pause-&-play, which is kind of halfway real-time. DA2 felt too fast to a lot of people because it was a sped-up, more actiony version of that. It worked for me because I played it mostly real-time. Maybe, if you really want it to feel tactical and tabletop-RPG-like, you just need real tabletop mechanics and turn-based combat. That way, you sort of accept the slower pace and it won't feel as annoying anymore because it's not action that slows down at certain points, it's pure strategy, with a level pace.
However, if that route is taken, I think there should be less combat in general, and more puzzles, exploration and other encounters.

Now here is a suggestion that I agree with 100%!

Warriors of the Eternal Sun...reborn!
+1

[Vox Draco]

There are those kind of games, and those kind of games. Meaning I liked the Batman games a lot, but when I paly an RPG I want to experience something different.

In Batman, I want to see the Dark(Dork) Knight controlling and subduing a vastly superior army of henchmen. It makes you feel liek the comic-superhero, and it is right that way, and quite funny for a while...though I prefer to stealthily take them out, much more fun...

In an RPG, especially party-base, I want to see the party working combined to stand against superior foes. I really don't want to see my main hero slaughtering his way through the hordes of enemies on her own while the computer-controlled companions just follow in tow.

I guess I am a child of Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. In fact, even DAO is far too less focused on the strategy aspect. In the mentioned games I really scouted ahead with stealthed rogues to see what awaited me, and prepare accordingly. And I remember in Icewind Dale that most of my characters, from warrior to mage, had at least one missle weapon with them, thinning out the enemy lines before melee ensued...it felt so much more like a real fantasy adventure...I mean, today the warden's and Hawkes all focus on one kind of weapon and it has no point carrying a bow for support...they should learn from Aragorn and Boromir. They knew the importance of versatility....

No. Let RPGs keep their special flavour, and action games theirs. Learning from other games is nice and sound, but mashing everything together is also not the best idea. It reminds me of people saying "Thief" needs more action-elements for Garret the protagonist...but then, this wouldn't be "Thief" anymore, based on steath and NOT killing, but another generic action game....just as an example for what I am feeling..

[Chromie]

Merlex wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

AudioEpics wrote...

You know what, I liked DA2's combat, preferred it to Origins' in fact, but... Come to think of it... I actually think DA3 might work best with completely turn-based combat. Go right back to the tabletop roots! I think DA:O felt slow because it was pause-&-play, which is kind of halfway real-time. DA2 felt too fast to a lot of people because it was a sped-up, more actiony version of that. It worked for me because I played it mostly real-time. Maybe, if you really want it to feel tactical and tabletop-RPG-like, you just need real tabletop mechanics and turn-based combat. That way, you sort of accept the slower pace and it won't feel as annoying anymore because it's not action that slows down at certain points, it's pure strategy, with a level pace.
However, if that route is taken, I think there should be less combat in general, and more puzzles, exploration and other encounters.

Now here is a suggestion that I agree with 100%!

Warriors of the Eternal Sun...reborn!
+1

I would LOVE turn based combat.

[Cultist]

You add arcadeness with bashing of AWESOME BUTTONS - you remove tactical combat and planning.
So results related to how fast you can bash buttons, instead of how good you planned the battle.
For me, that's a clear sign of degradation.

Modifié par Cultist, 31 août 2012 - 10:19 .

[Fast Jimmy]

cJohnOne wrote...

Really How did they do it? I'm not familar with them. I thought of how they did it in pool of radiance:ruins of myth drannor and Temple of elemental evil.

Well, for instance, in Final Fantasy 6, there was a "Ready" bar that charged up at a speed based on the character's stats (and which could be increased through eqiupment and spells). Whenever that bar filled, it was that enemy's/character's turn. Then they could use their standard attack, use a skill/spell, block (for defense, but no damage) or use an item. 

Pretty basic turn based RPGs work similar. FF12 did it so that it was a little more automated, with turns that were controlled by a customized AI structure, but I persoanlly thought this was terrible, since they didn't give you access to all of the AI features starting out, so your characters were gimped until later levels unless you took manual control of them.

[Plaintiff]

FaWa wrote...

The people who find DAO slow don't understand the point of the strategy based combat.

This.
Is.
Not.
A.
Hack.
And.
Slash.
Game.

Because there is one way and only one way to have strategic combat. Hack and slash games never require you to think or alter your tactics ever.

Except for all those times that they do.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 septembre 2012 - 12:49 .

[philippe willaume]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

philippe willaume wrote...

hello sylvius
There are way aroud it, but i agree with you can't be in control of the protagonist  the whole time.
the implication of that if we want real time is to some form of autopilot/action queue where the game is doing the dodging defending and attacking for you. 

A queue would work wonderfully.

i have to say that i like the idea of limited pause time when the action is started.

I hate this idea.  The player should be given as much time as he needs to make decisions.  Otherwise the characters will be constrained by the player's ability to make quick decisions.

i can live with a mass effect combat style, with a different companion interaction interface.

ME's combat worked really well for a single character.  The ability to aim while paused was genius.  I don't see how to adapt that for full-party control, though.

hello.
For me the important bit is team work and the ability to adapt to each situation. I agree that ME was kind of short in that department, but provided that we have a tactical planing before the engagement and a way to issue order to the companions. How the conbat is interfaced with the user has only a weak dependancy on the type of combat.

The combat can even be like a FPS/flight simulator.even with a flight sim/FSP type of combat you can have a action mode and a RPG mode.
In the action mode, you are doing the striking dodging (with or without your stats impacting the result), in RPG mode the AI does it for you according to your stat.

What i am getting at , if we take mass effect as an exemple, is that it would be much more companion friendly if before the action, you could task Garrus to find a possition where he can snipe the map, preventing you to be cut of, have Liara covering a natural choke point and you doing the recon/baiting/or flaking if they are supressed under cover.
when the action start the current ME order system if kind of fine, it could be refined to have more tactical granularity.


At the end of the day the pausing, is just a way to say, companion  X go there and do that to this dude/any dude who does Z.


If you have played  European Air war, you could get you certain element of you staffel/gruppen to do engage a particulat type of target according to what the tactical situation was.
so according how heavily the bomber escort was you could adapt your tactic/strategy and what the other staffel got to do.

It is a very simplistic, and in flight simulator you have see the ennemy way before the actual engagement. (hence the real time planing)
but that is what sneaking and sensor should be about.... and it can be represented by a pause at before the actual combat strats.

i mentioned timed pause because when the action is started you can issue complex orders, that being said this could be proportional to the difficulty or part of the difficulty calculation.

Phil