106 réponses à ce sujet

[CaptainCommander]

 If there is already a topic on this please direct me to it but. . . 

Was just wondering after playing Leviathan if Bioware is building up with all the DLC to a conventional victory over the Reapers without the Crucible. I say for the simple reason that Leviathan included 11 new war assets and what's the point of adding them in because the best ending has been decreased to 4000 EMS with the EC. And that's easily achievable with a normal game play through so why add new assets to find (Not the Leviathan assets, the actually Planet scanning ones).
Was just wondering if EA was trying to milk the unhappy fan base through DLC to get to an ending where we can actually just blow the Reapers up and not have colour coded choices?

[Cheesesack]

I would love for this to be true, since it always seemed to me that everyone just decided we couldn't beat them normally and this completely unknown device was 'our only hope'. It seemed really forced, just to shoehorn us into having their crappy, 'arty' ending. To me, if you took the time to get every war asset, it actually looked like you weren't doing too badly againt the Reapers in thie final cutscene. I think, after all the DLC, it whould be possible to win conventiaonally; but only if you get nearly every single war assest in the game (including ones that can only be got from previous games like allying the Geth and the Quarians).

[insomniak9]

The 'current' best ending needs 4000EMS. Imagine what kind of ending will eventually require >4000 EMS ;-)

I'm with you on this one. Now we can control Brutes and mind-melt Reapers out of the sky, I'd say we're heading towards victory. Victory now however will require killing Leviathan too.

SO. MUCH. DLC!

[Pitznik]

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

[masseffect420]

I was thinking the same thing sir.

[masseffect420]

Read the Leviathan war assets their making a army. I think the truth DLC is coming!

[Jadebaby]

CaptainCommander wrote...

 If there is already a topic on this please direct me to it but. . . 

Was just wondering after playing Leviathan if Bioware is building up with all the DLC to a conventional victory over the Reapers without the Crucible. I say for the simple reason that Leviathan included 11 new war assets and what's the point of adding them in because the best ending has been decreased to 4000 EMS with the EC. And that's easily achievable with a normal game play through so why add new assets to find (Not the Leviathan assets, the actually Planet scanning ones).
Was just wondering if EA was trying to milk the unhappy fan base through DLC to get to an ending where we can actually just blow the Reapers up and not have colour coded choices?

More information can be seen here...

http://social.biowar.../index/13110654

[Jadebaby]

Pitznik wrote...

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

No it wouldn't, because you would still have the choice to use the crucible, should you not buy the dlc, or should you want a Shepard playthrough to use it.

[Pitznik]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

No it wouldn't, because you would still have the choice to use the crucible, should you not buy the dlc, or should you want a Shepard playthrough to use it.

Decision to build and use the Crucible is based on conventional victory being impossible. So adding such possibility makes the decision wrong, no matter if you do it or not. When the possibility to make peace between Quarians and Geth exists, every other choice is made suboptimal.

It is not going to happen.

[Bfler]

Pitznik wrote...

Decision to build and use the Crucible is based on conventional victory being impossible. So adding such possibility makes the decision wrong, no matter if you do it or not. When the possibility to make peace between Quarians and Geth exists, every other choice is made suboptimal.

It is not going to happen.

It is called alternate ending DLC. Imagine what would have been, if....

[Jadebaby]

Pitznik wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

No it wouldn't, because you would still have the choice to use the crucible, should you not buy the dlc, or should you want a Shepard playthrough to use it.

Decision to build and use the Crucible is based on conventional victory being impossible. So adding such possibility makes the decision wrong, no matter if you do it or not. When the possibility to make peace between Quarians and Geth exists, every other choice is made suboptimal.

It is not going to happen.

No, it wont be simple "conventional victory". It will be using unconventional means to reach a "conventional" victory. In that we will be able to win without sacrificing our friends or entire races to do so.

I believe it will happen, you can't change that.

[Pitznik]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

No it wouldn't, because you would still have the choice to use the crucible, should you not buy the dlc, or should you want a Shepard playthrough to use it.

Decision to build and use the Crucible is based on conventional victory being impossible. So adding such possibility makes the decision wrong, no matter if you do it or not. When the possibility to make peace between Quarians and Geth exists, every other choice is made suboptimal.

It is not going to happen.

No, it wont be simple "conventional victory". It will be using unconventional means to reach a "conventional" victory. In that we will be able to win without sacrificing our friends or entire races to do so.

I believe it will happen, you can't change that.

It will still be giving a big kick to the Crucible and saying loudly: "Hackett is a moron. Liara is a moron. Shepard is a moron. Everyone who worked on the crucible and on operation on Earth to deploy it are morons." That is why it won't happen.

I can't change what you believe, but that won't stop me from commenting on how naive your belief is.

If Bioware wouldn't comment on them being done with the endings I would rather expect some even higher Destroy ending, which hits precisely the Reapers and nothing else - but that would also invalidate all other endings, so it is still very unlikely.

[Sarevok Synder]

They have said it many times, they're done with the endings. Leviathan didn't change anything, there is no reason to expect any future DLC to be any different. To believe otherwise is just wishful thinking.

[Jadebaby]

Pitznik wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Conventional victory would make the whole Crucible plotline pointless. It is not going to happen.

No it wouldn't, because you would still have the choice to use the crucible, should you not buy the dlc, or should you want a Shepard playthrough to use it.

Decision to build and use the Crucible is based on conventional victory being impossible. So adding such possibility makes the decision wrong, no matter if you do it or not. When the possibility to make peace between Quarians and Geth exists, every other choice is made suboptimal.

It is not going to happen.

No, it wont be simple "conventional victory". It will be using unconventional means to reach a "conventional" victory. In that we will be able to win without sacrificing our friends or entire races to do so.

I believe it will happen, you can't change that.

It will still be giving a big kick to the Crucible and saying loudly: "Hackett is a moron. Liara is a moron. Shepard is a moron. Everyone who worked on the crucible and on operation on Earth to deploy it are morons." That is why it won't happen.

I can't change what you believe, but that won't stop me from commenting on how naive your belief is.

If Bioware wouldn't comment on them being done with the endings I would rather expect some even higher Destroy ending, which hits precisely the Reapers and nothing else - but that would also invalidate all other endings, so it is still very unlikely.

It's not calling anyone a moron because that was their only possible lead at the time. Omega will be interesting to say the least.

[ld1449]

Even if this were to happen Bioware would have to actually...you know...MAKE it.

Given ME3's reception, the price drops, the EC reception which is lackluster at best, and the overall mixed reception of Leviathan, I don't see them making the 2 or 3 MORE DLC's necessary for this to come about, even if they did mannage to pull their head out of their asses to want to fix it.

[Nightwriter]

Do not come near me with that hope. I'll shoot. I'm not joking! I'll shoot! Try me! Just try it!

[Jadebaby]

ld1449 wrote...

Even if this were to happen Bioware would have to actually...you know...MAKE it.

Given ME3's reception, the price drops, the EC reception which is lackluster at best, and the overall mixed reception of Leviathan, I don't see them making the 2 or 3 MORE DLC's necessary for this to come about, even if they did mannage to pull their head out of their asses to want to fix it.

Multiplayer Microtransactions.

They knew they were taking risks with the ending before it came out.

The real question is would EA pull the plug on it because of the backlash?

I'm hoping not.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Conventional Victory would destroy the story even more than it already was by the crap endings. I just doesn't make any sense and I don't know why people want it so much. If the Protheans, who were far more advanced and widespread than the current cycle's races couldn't defeat them conventionally, then how does it make sense a less advanced and smaller for would be able to. Even if the Leviathans joined the fight, they are extremely few in number, and even with their powers I would imagine they would be overpowered by the Reapers numbers.

[CptData]

CaptainCommander wrote...

 If there is already a topic on this please direct me to it but. . . 

Was just wondering after playing Leviathan if Bioware is building up with all the DLC to a conventional victory over the Reapers without the Crucible. I say for the simple reason that Leviathan included 11 new war assets and what's the point of adding them in because the best ending has been decreased to 4000 EMS with the EC. And that's easily achievable with a normal game play through so why add new assets to find (Not the Leviathan assets, the actually Planet scanning ones).
Was just wondering if EA was trying to milk the unhappy fan base through DLC to get to an ending where we can actually just blow the Reapers up and not have colour coded choices?

Well, my theory is - and I mentioned it numerous times already - BW might introduce something new to the endings. Just lemme explain with few words:

Where's the point of buying new story DLCs?
If we believe the story DLCs won't change anything in the long run (aka: the endings), there's no real need to buy them. They may extend the gameplay time, add more interaction with squadmates and extend the story, but they don't change the big picture.
Right?


What if the EC didn't just enhance the known endings and added the Refusal Ending but set the base for something we're not aware of?
There are the three endings we know. Those got explained better now and feel a bit more like a sour happy ending than before (only sour sad endings O.o). And we got another "ending", 'though it doesn't end in a good way.
What if that very fourth ending gets altered if you got more story DLCs? After all, it's the "conventional ending" - where Shepard refuses to use those three given endings and hopes to duke it out with conventional warfare. What if you simply never had enough war assets AND special prerequesites to finish the job?


The secret goodie for being a loyal fan
You bought all story DLCs. You talked to the Leviathans, you took back Omega. You revisited Virmire and you were able to do a lot of extra stuff that's not in the game yet. Your Shepard simply is a completist that did everything right.
Well, YOU are a completist by spending another 50 bucks for 5 more DLCs.

And then you're done. Starchild talks to you - and you still have the same effing three choices. You want to shoot that li'll brat - refusal. And this time ...

... everything is different. The Leviathans beat the crap out of several Sovereign-class Reapers. The advanced shield system you have captured in one of those new DLCs makes it much more difficult for the Reapers to destroy Alliance ships. You somehow managed to get the Salarian fleets too, despite the fact you cured the Genophage. That "Dalatress-Linron DLC" helped you to do so.
Total victory at Earth. The Reapers are not defeated yet, but you destroyed their largest Armada at Earth. You bought the galaxy time to regroup and do it again. Without the Crucible. Without sacrificing Shepard, EDI, the Geth, the Mass Relay Network. You simply did it 'cause the ENTIRE galaxy was working together.
But you only did it 'cause it's your big reward for being a loyal fan that bought all of the story DLCs. That's the secret goodie.


Bioware plays with our hopes
And still there's a high risk BW / EA is playing with us. Making us hope buying all story DLCs may improve the endings is a great marketing idea - but it may backfire if the fans get disappointed. The last time fans got "entitled" caused EA/BW to release the EC. What might happen this time?

[Jadebaby]

ClockworkSpectre wrote...

Conventional Victory would destroy the story even more than it already was by the crap endings. I just doesn't make any sense and I don't know why people want it so much. If the Protheans, who were far more advanced and widespread than the current cycle's races couldn't defeat them conventionally, then how does it make sense a less advanced and smaller for would be able to. Even if the Leviathans joined the fight, they are extremely few in number, and even with their powers I would imagine they would be overpowered by the Reapers numbers.

Because the Protheans superiority was also their undoing. In that the Reapers could predict their moves more easily. Javik mentions this.

Also, because the Protheans were took completely by surprise, the Reapers had the Citadel before they even knew what hit them. And EVEN THEN, it still took the Reapers centuries to get rid of them all, and ultimately, they failed, in Javik's existence.

[Klijpope]

I'm feeling that there may be some Crucible DLC down the line. Leviathan had pretty much nothing to say on that matter, yet the question was included...

[Jadebaby]

CptData wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

 If there is already a topic on this please direct me to it but. . . 

Was just wondering after playing Leviathan if Bioware is building up with all the DLC to a conventional victory over the Reapers without the Crucible. I say for the simple reason that Leviathan included 11 new war assets and what's the point of adding them in because the best ending has been decreased to 4000 EMS with the EC. And that's easily achievable with a normal game play through so why add new assets to find (Not the Leviathan assets, the actually Planet scanning ones).
Was just wondering if EA was trying to milk the unhappy fan base through DLC to get to an ending where we can actually just blow the Reapers up and not have colour coded choices?

Well, my theory is - and I mentioned it numerous times already - BW might introduce something new to the endings. Just lemme explain with few words:

Where's the point of buying new story DLCs?
If we believe the story DLCs won't change anything in the long run (aka: the endings), there's no real need to buy them. They may extend the gameplay time, add more interaction with squadmates and extend the story, but they don't change the big picture.
Right?


What if the EC didn't just enhance the known endings and added the Refusal Ending but set the base for something we're not aware of?
There are the three endings we know. Those got explained better now and feel a bit more like a sour happy ending than before (only sour sad endings O.o). And we got another "ending", 'though it doesn't end in a good way.
What if that very fourth ending gets altered if you got more story DLCs? After all, it's the "conventional ending" - where Shepard refuses to use those three given endings and hopes to duke it out with conventional warfare. What if you simply never had enough war assets AND special prerequesites to finish the job?


The secret goodie for being a loyal fan
You bought all story DLCs. You talked to the Leviathans, you took back Omega. You revisited Virmire and you were able to do a lot of extra stuff that's not in the game yet. Your Shepard simply is a completist that did everything right.
Well, YOU are a completist by spending another 50 bucks for 5 more DLCs.

And then you're done. Starchild talks to you - and you still have the same effing three choices. You want to shoot that li'll brat - refusal. And this time ...

... everything is different. The Leviathans beat the crap out of several Sovereign-class Reapers. The advanced shield system you have captured in one of those new DLCs makes it much more difficult for the Reapers to destroy Alliance ships. You somehow managed to get the Salarian fleets too, despite the fact you cured the Genophage. That "Dalatress-Linron DLC" helped you to do so.
Total victory at Earth. The Reapers are not defeated yet, but you destroyed their largest Armada at Earth. You bought the galaxy time to regroup and do it again. Without the Crucible. Without sacrificing Shepard, EDI, the Geth, the Mass Relay Network. You simply did it 'cause the ENTIRE galaxy was working together.
But you only did it 'cause it's your big reward for being a loyal fan that bought all of the story DLCs. That's the secret goodie.


Bioware plays with our hopes
And still there's a high risk BW / EA is playing with us. Making us hope buying all story DLCs may improve the endings is a great marketing idea - but it may backfire if the fans get disappointed. The last time fans got "entitled" caused EA/BW to release the EC. What might happen this time?

I like your thinking.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

ClockworkSpectre wrote...

Conventional Victory would destroy the story even more than it already was by the crap endings. I just doesn't make any sense and I don't know why people want it so much. If the Protheans, who were far more advanced and widespread than the current cycle's races couldn't defeat them conventionally, then how does it make sense a less advanced and smaller for would be able to. Even if the Leviathans joined the fight, they are extremely few in number, and even with their powers I would imagine they would be overpowered by the Reapers numbers.

Because the Protheans superiority was also their undoing. In that the Reapers could predict their moves more easily. Javik mentions this.

Also, because the Protheans were took completely by surprise, the Reapers had the Citadel before they even knew what hit them. And EVEN THEN, it still took the Reapers centuries to get rid of them all, and ultimately, they failed, in Javik's existence.

And it still took the reapers 400 years to wipe them out.  It takes the reapers less than a year to almost cripple the council races.

[Jadebaby]

Klijpope wrote...

I'm feeling that there may be some Crucible DLC down the line. Leviathan had pretty much nothing to say on that matter, yet the question was included...

Omega, my bet

[Pitznik]

CptData wrote...

Where's the point of buying new story DLCs?
If we believe the story DLCs won't change anything in the long run (aka: the endings), there's no real need to buy them. They may extend the gameplay time, add more interaction with squadmates and extend the story, but they don't change the big picture.
Right?

That is what DLCs are and always were about. There isn't supposed to to even be a NEED to buy them - this is optional content.

CptData wrote...
What if the EC didn't just enhance the known endings and added the Refusal Ending but set the base for something we're not aware of?
There are the three endings we know. Those got explained better now and feel a bit more like a sour happy ending than before (only sour sad endings O.o). And we got another "ending", 'though it doesn't end in a good way.
What if that very fourth ending gets altered if you got more story DLCs? After all, it's the "conventional ending" - where Shepard refuses to use those three given endings and hopes to duke it out with conventional warfare. What if you simply never had enough war assets AND special prerequesites to finish the job?

Winning from refusing kills the plot. Period.

CptData wrote...
The secret goodie for being a loyal fan
You bought all story DLCs. You talked to the Leviathans, you took back Omega. You revisited Virmire and you were able to do a lot of extra stuff that's not in the game yet. Your Shepard simply is a completist that did everything right.
Well, YOU are a completist by spending another 50 bucks for 5 more DLCs.

And then you're done. Starchild talks to you - and you still have the same effing three choices. You want to shoot that li'll brat - refusal. And this time ...

... everything is different. The Leviathans beat the crap out of several Sovereign-class Reapers. The advanced shield system you have captured in one of those new DLCs makes it much more difficult for the Reapers to destroy Alliance ships. You somehow managed to get the Salarian fleets too, despite the fact you cured the Genophage. That "Dalatress-Linron DLC" helped you to do so.
Total victory at Earth. The Reapers are not defeated yet, but you destroyed their largest Armada at Earth. You bought the galaxy time to regroup and do it again. Without the Crucible. Without sacrificing Shepard, EDI, the Geth, the Mass Relay Network. You simply did it 'cause the ENTIRE galaxy was working together.
But you only did it 'cause it's your big reward for being a loyal fan that bought all of the story DLCs. That's the secret goodie.

Creating content just for the very small number of people isn't really justified from business point of view. Bioware is about moneymaking (and I'm not saying that is a bad thing).

CptData wrote...
Bioware plays with our hopes
And still there's a high risk BW / EA is playing with us. Making us hope buying all story DLCs may improve the endings is a great marketing idea - but it may backfire if the fans get disappointed. The last time fans got "entitled" caused EA/BW to release the EC. What might happen this time?

They stated quite clearly they are done with the endings.