12 réponses à ce sujet

[filetemo]

Use your "arcane wisdom" skill to activate hidden runes in a corridor and blow away enemies.
Use your "nature" skill to make the animals stop attacking you, whith high enough level, they turn against their masters.
Use your "charisma" skill to let peasants help you in the fight
Use your "lockpick" skill to activate traps that can harm your enemies
Use your "steal" skill to steal your enemy weapon
Use your "intimidation" skill to make low level mobs flee
Use your "ranger" skill to avoid random fights in the map

All of this would be supported by an in-game UI that would highlight the clickable elements and options and the requirements to activate that option, and which characters can activate it.

Your specialization could also play a role. An assassin rogue can summon thieves who strike from the shadows, and a templar could invoke a beam of light only in andrastean places (churches, temples)...

[MichaelStuart]

Interesting ideas.
I would like to be able to do all this even if I don't have the skill, actually having the skill would make it easy.

[bloodmage13]

I have to say that while I disagree with non combat skills impacting combat I do agree that they need to make a comeback. I loved being able to persuade people in DAO. I also liked making poison and other non combat skills. It added to the gameplay

[Realmzmaster]

filetemo wrote...

Use your "arcane wisdom" skill to activate hidden runes in a corridor and blow away enemies.
Use your "nature" skill to make the animals stop attacking you, whith high enough level, they turn against their masters.
Use your "charisma" skill to let peasants help you in the fight
Use your "lockpick" skill to activate traps that can harm your enemies
Use your "steal" skill to steal your enemy weapon
Use your "intimidation" skill to make low level mobs flee
Use your "ranger" skill to avoid random fights in the map

All of this would be supported by an in-game UI that would highlight the clickable elements and options and the requirements to activate that option, and which characters can activate it.

Your specialization could also play a role. An assassin rogue can summon thieves who strike from the shadows, and a templar could invoke a beam of light only in andrastean places (churches, temples)...

I would like to see the return of non-combat skills and like some of the suggestions as long as the enemy can do the same actions. 
Using the steal skill to steal a weapon in combat is not likely. Better to call it disarm. DAO had the ability to make and lay traps. DAO had the survival skill that allow the detection of the enemy and the ability to calm animals. 

The problem with activating hidden runes or traps is that they are neutral in combat. They can affect the party as well as the enemy. 

I can see the intimidation skill making  some members of a mob flee but not the entire mob. Also in DA the enemy scales to the party level so there are no low level mobs.

[Fast Jimmy]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Interesting ideas.
I would like to be able to do all this even if I don't have the skill, actually having the skill would make it easy.

I'm confused by your statement.

Do you mean that any player could just look at an animal and make it stop attacking? Any player could be in ruins and just make the walls explode? 

That would kind of defeat the purpose of having animal enemies, and having them fight for you would essentially make you like The Beast Master by default. And activating magical runes when you aren't a mage and have had no in-game experience with magic doesn't seem... logical.


Do you mean you'd like to be able to do that if your character, say, found a book on the subject? Or completed a quest? As opposed to gaining a level and just arbitrarily choosing it as a skill?

Or are you saying every character should have the ability to do all sorts of very specialized activities right out of the gate? Because that seems a little like... cheat codes, I guess?

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Interesting ideas.
I would like to be able to do all this even if I don't have the skill, actually having the skill would make it easy.

I'm confused by your statement.

Do you mean that any player could just look at an animal and make it stop attacking? Any player could be in ruins and just make the walls explode? 

That would kind of defeat the purpose of having animal enemies, and having them fight for you would essentially make you like The Beast Master by default. And activating magical runes when you aren't a mage and have had no in-game experience with magic doesn't seem... logical.


Do you mean you'd like to be able to do that if your character, say, found a book on the subject? Or completed a quest? As opposed to gaining a level and just arbitrarily choosing it as a skill?

Or are you saying every character should have the ability to do all sorts of very specialized activities right out of the gate? Because that seems a little like... cheat codes, I guess?

I think what he is trying to say is that all the characters should be able to attempt to do those things with a percentage of failure. Having the skill makes the percentage of failure decrease.

For example,  calming an animal if the party member does not have the skill there is a 90% chance of failure. 
Depending on the skill level a reduction in the failure rate occurs.

1st level           20% reduction
2nd level          40%
3rd level           60%
4th level            80%

Which could also be used for the other skills. 

I could be wrong.

[MichaelStuart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Interesting ideas.
I would like to be able to do all this even if I don't have the skill, actually having the skill would make it easy.

I'm confused by your statement.

Do you mean that any player could just look at an animal and make it stop attacking? Any player could be in ruins and just make the walls explode? 

That would kind of defeat the purpose of having animal enemies, and having them fight for you would essentially make you like The Beast Master by default. And activating magical runes when you aren't a mage and have had no in-game experience with magic doesn't seem... logical.

Do you mean you'd like to be able to do that if your character, say, found a book on the subject? Or completed a quest? As opposed to gaining a level and just arbitrarily choosing it as a skill?

Or are you saying every character should have the ability to do all sorts of very specialized activities right out of the gate? Because that seems a little like... cheat codes, I guess?

Every play Fallout New Vegas? I see it animals skills working out like that.
For those who don't know. Animals will not attack you if your a certain distance (this isn't sneaking, the animal knows your there, and its growling at you not to come closer) If you have the animal skill you walk right up to them and they won't attack, take a second animal skill and the animals will add you in a fight.

So, what I mean is I would like a way to do things with having the skill.
Like a buying a potion that stops animals attacking if I get too close or a posion that will cause animals to attack a enemy.

Also, I would prefer all skills were learned from skill books and not by leveling up.

Also, throwing animals food to make them frendly, would that be too much?


 

[MichaelStuart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I think what he is trying to say is that all the characters should be able to attempt to do those things with a percentage of failure. Having the skill makes the percentage of failure decrease.

For example,  calming an animal if the party member does not have the skill there is a 90% chance of failure. 
Depending on the skill level a reduction in the failure rate occurs.

1st level           20% reduction
2nd level          40%
3rd level           60%
4th level            80%

Which could also be used for the other skills. 

I could be wrong.

I prefer it not be a dice roll.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 30 août 2012 - 03:52 .

[Realmzmaster]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I think what he is trying to say is that all the characters should be able to attempt to do those things with a percentage of failure. Having the skill makes the percentage of failure decrease.

For example,  calming an animal if the party member does not have the skill there is a 90% chance of failure. 
Depending on the skill level a reduction in the failure rate occurs.

1st level           20% reduction
2nd level          40%
3rd level           60%
4th level            80%

Which could also be used for the other skills. 

I could be wrong.

I prefer it not be a dice roll.

That is not a dice roll. The level refers to the skill level. The percentage is fixed. Example if you have the first level survival skill the reduction is 20% or the failure rate becomes 70% with a 30% chance of success.

At level two of survival you have a 40% reduction in failure or 50% failure rate and a 50% success rate and so on.
No dice roll.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 30 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

That is not a dice roll. The level refers to the skill level. The percentage is fixed. Example if you have the first level survival skill the reduction is 20% or the failure rate becomes 70% with a 30% chance of success.

At level two of survival you have a 40% reduction in failure or 50% failure rate and a 50% success rate and so on.
No dice roll.

Well, technically, every percentage risk is just a 2d10 roll.

But... again... I'm splitting hairs here.

MichaelStuart wrote...

Every play Fallout New Vegas? I see it animals skills working out like that.
For those who don't know. Animals will not attack you if your a certain distance (this isn't sneaking, the animal knows your there, and its growling at you not to come closer) If you have the animal skill you walk right up to them and they won't attack, take a second animal skill and the animals will add you in a fight.

So, what I mean is I would like a way to do things with having the skill.
Like a buying a potion that stops animals attacking if I get too close or a posion that will cause animals to attack a enemy.

Also, I would prefer all skills were learned from skill books and not by leveling up.

Also, throwing animals food to make them frendly, would that be too much?

Okay, as long as it is based on a skill level, that's what I wasn't understanding. And I agree, having levels be the ultimate determiner in how your skills go up always seemed a little wonky to me. I killed 200 guys using my axe... so now I can pick locks? 

I'd rather get skill points every level that I can use to spend on reading skill books (1 point to read a beginner's book on Nature, 3 points to read an advanced lock picking book, but I also will have needed to read the begninner and intermediate books before hand) or to find out certain trainers to advance past a certain level. For example, using FONV's model, you could raise your skill up to 40% on your own, but to go higher, you must meet with a intermediate trainer (which costs skill points or XP, or whatever is deemed correct). Afterward, you can level up your skill to 60%, and then would need to seek out an advanced trainer, where you could then raise it to 80%, and then you would need a Master trainer to get any higher.

Of course, I don't see Bioware using this type of system, since they completely ditched all non-combat skills entirely in DA2. We'd be lucky to get any back at all, let alone a unique or interesting leveling system for them.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 30 août 2012 - 04:33 .

[MichaelStuart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I think what he is trying to say is that all the characters should be able to attempt to do those things with a percentage of failure. Having the skill makes the percentage of failure decrease.

For example,  calming an animal if the party member does not have the skill there is a 90% chance of failure. 
Depending on the skill level a reduction in the failure rate occurs.

1st level           20% reduction
2nd level          40%
3rd level           60%
4th level            80%

Which could also be used for the other skills. 

I could be wrong.

I prefer it not be a dice roll.

That is not a dice roll. The level refers to the skill level. The percentage is fixed. Example if you have the first level survival skill the reduction is 20% or the failure rate becomes 70% with a 30% chance of success.

At level two of survival you have a 40% reduction in failure or 50% failure rate and a 50% success rate and so on.
No dice roll.

I admit I'm having troble understanding you.
At level 4 will a animel attack me if ?

I get with in 2 feet (normally 10, but has been reduced 80%)
or
I get with in 10 feet and fail the 10% chance if them not attacking.

Sorry if my maths is wrong.

[PsychoBlonde]

Considering how annoying it is just to try to disarm traps in combat due to the horrible and awkward pathing, I'm going to vote against this one. Also, nothing you've listed is an actual non-combat ability. They're all either charm effects, glyphs, summons, disarms . . . all those abilities already exist as part of combat trees (except disarm, because enemies don't actually HAVE weapons, just damage statistics).

What you're talking about is not using non-combat abilities during combat, but for *skills* to have combat *uses*. Since they got rid of skills in DA2, it's kind of late to be bringing this up.

[filetemo]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Considering how annoying it is just to try to disarm traps in combat due to the horrible and awkward pathing, I'm going to vote against this one. Also, nothing you've listed is an actual non-combat ability. They're all either charm effects, glyphs, summons, disarms . . . all those abilities already exist as part of combat trees (except disarm, because enemies don't actually HAVE weapons, just damage statistics).

What you're talking about is not using non-combat abilities during combat, but for *skills* to have combat *uses*. Since they got rid of skills in DA2, it's kind of late to be bringing this up.

The point is to give combat an additional layer apart from the actual fighting.
A character with points in "dwarven history" could recognize a trap in the deep roads where nobody else can see it and skip a fight completely.
A mage with points in "Tevinter language" could read the writings in an ancient wall to open a secret door and ambush the bandits on the next corner.

I was giving generic abilities as example, as nobody will put points in "Tevinter language" if they do not know what use it has.

There's also the roleplaying aspect of  "Would level 1 bandits really dare to attack the champion of Kirkwall to steal him his purse"? "Would an Antivan crows crew let a fellow comrade be killed in the middle of an Antivan city by some random apostates?"



Or, if you wish, use these abilities as an excuse to have more interactive environments to play in your favor.

We can also reduce this even more to "let us use the environment during fighting based on whatever system you can think of" Cunning to use the environment, Charisma to use the bystanders, Specializations to reflect we can get aid in "allied" locations.

Modifié par filetemo, 31 août 2012 - 10:24 .