6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackie09]

Honestly I understand what they did with the endings I respect them and will continue to support bioware...HOWEVER I do wish they would more more story content if you got the shepard drawing a breath. When I went into the final battle I was feeling the David Tennant's doctor in doctor who I go into the TARDIS get ready for my transformation and at the last minute I look at the screen and say "I don't want to go" and boom dead!

I understand that people are upset about the ending but yet Shepard's story is over they shouldn't have teased us with a "perfect ending" where shepard..lives(?) shepard had to die therefore we know without a doubt s/he is done! I do not want an ME4 but since I got the one where shepard lives I just want to know how the reunion went.

While beating the game again I realized maybe bioware is giving us hope that Shepard reunites and fills in our own blanks instead of being spoon fed.

[Dragoonlordz]

@Applepie_Svk

I suggest you fix your quoting because it is not acceptable to say I said something when I did not.

Edit: You have fixed it now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[3DandBeyond]

I think I repeatedly see a theme here. I see some that come here and are only concerned for their own interests. While others come here and are trying to see the bigger picture. Unhappy fans may have found this to be the tipping point-given that too much hype has entered the gaming world. Promises exist within that hype and DLC that adds things such as war asset numbers really does imply something more could take place, especially when the story seems to back it up. I don't think some people even care to read much of the stuff that is within the games, in the codex, and all over the place so DLC is just for pretty colors, awesome weapons, and nothing that really adds to the story. That's so unlike what ME was about before all this.

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

obZen DF wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Im debating if I should sell my ME trilogy or give it away. Is it even worth the effort to sell them? What am I goIng to get for them anyway 5 bucks? Either way I'm not keeping this violated former series around, much too painful after bioware torched it to death.

Know what's wierd? Why would bioware say that if we knew what they were planning we'd hold on to our copies forever, then say they'll never change the ending if they know for a fact the ending is the single biggest game breaking flaw in this game? Makes no sense. Maybe its more lies, had enough of those thank you. Peace.

Good point! Tell us, Bioware !

It was a general PR statement. It applies to not just those who do not like it, but those who have interest in continuing to be a fan, be a customer it is also directed at too. It simply means there will be massive amounts of good DLC for those who like it or are concerned about what happened with DA2 expansion happening with ME3. Almost everyone I have seen who played Leviathan said it was a good DLC including even some who merely watched it on youtube said looked good. Only ones who hated it are the same ones who hate the game regardless of the free EC DLC which made a lot of people happy enough to continue playing ME3. The comment was not directed at specific individuals but to millions of people who bought the game and not those specifically who might dislike it.

Leviathan was a good DLC, but the problem was they became pointless after that DLC was over

I do not buy a DLC for what happens after, I buy a DLC to enjoy what happens within it. Just like I did not buy ME1 for sole purpose of possible impact in ME2, I bought it to enjoy ME1 itself etc. The content of it is what matters not the content outside of it.

so does everyone else, but when you buy and play Story based DLCs people expect to see that play some part of the final mission or the ending, which they do none

It might have been a problem for you but as givenmy example it is not a problem for me. I am sure I am not the only one who see's it that way either. Some people buy DLC because they just like to shoot things and enjoy the combat and a new place to visit, some buy it because wanted to find out more lore and backstory. You personally wanted changes to the ending? But that is personal to you, the DLC was not pointless however because as said many people bought for many reasons and not everyone bought assuming would change the ending especially given they said would not outside of dialogue and such.

[chevyguy87]

AresKeith wrote...

so does everyone else, but when you buy and play Story based DLCs people expect to see that play some part of the final mission or the ending, which they do none

Well said, I myself do not purchase DLC often since I believe it is just content cut from the game in the first place, but when I do, I would like to enjoy the outcome of said DLC. If the content fails in delivering an outcome whether it be good or bad, then it just plain fails. Leviathan, shining example interesting and informative, but serves no purpose once the content has concluded. Would have lived up to higher potential if it was featured as a story element in the base game, same thing with From Ashes. 

I do not envy those who purchase DLC, I wish them happiness as I will watch the content play out on youtube not having spent my money.

[3DandBeyond]

Jackie09 wrote...

Honestly I understand what they did with the endings I respect them and will continue to support bioware...HOWEVER I do wish they would more more story content if you got the shepard drawing a breath. When I went into the final battle I was feeling the David Tennant's doctor in doctor who I go into the TARDIS get ready for my transformation and at the last minute I look at the screen and say "I don't want to go" and boom dead!

I understand that people are upset about the ending but yet Shepard's story is over they shouldn't have teased us with a "perfect ending" where shepard..lives(?) shepard had to die therefore we know without a doubt s/he is done! I do not want an ME4 but since I got the one where shepard lives I just want to know how the reunion went.

While beating the game again I realized maybe bioware is giving us hope that Shepard reunites and fills in our own blanks instead of being spoon fed.

You see I think we as fans are more capable of dealing with the idea that Shepard's story is over and Shepard lives than I think you are giving us credit for.  It's the fact that people wanted full closure on that that didn't leave them rather depressed about the whole thing (and that was done in an authentic way) that has people upset in part.

I don't need to see Shepard dead to know ME3 was the end of Shepard's story arc.  I've read plenty of books and one series I read was like at least 11 books long and characters came and went throughout and that was fine.  I would be happy for an ME4 in the post ME3 galaxy with a new hero IF I had one plausible possible decent ending for Shepard.  The torso in rubble is not any of those things and the other choices are unconscionable acts for me and not any way to end this series that was all about real relatable characters with hearts and souls.  I also can imagine a lot, but I don't think head canon is a great way to end over 100 hours of play either.  It limits and destroys replayability for a series that stressed replayability as a core concept.  You were constantly told to replay it for a completely different story, but all roads lead to Rome when maybe I want to go to Edinburgh.

[Ozida]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
It might have been a problem for you but as givenmy example it is not a problem for me. I am sure I am not the only one who see's it that way either. Some people buy DLC because they just like to shoot things and enjoy the combat and a new place to visit, some buy it because wanted to find out more lore and backstory. You personally wanted changes to the ending? But that is personal to you, the DLC was not pointless however because as said many people bought for many reasons and not everyone bought assuming would change the ending especially given they said would not outside of dialogue and such.

Exactly! And we are back to the original request of this topic: to have a separate paid DLC, because some people just like to invest in a story and want to see something additional to existing options. So could we have our victorious DLC now, please?

Modifié par Ozida, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[BearlyHere]

3DandBeyond wrote...
 snip:

We hear so much attributed to the devs and their coworkers.  One of the most incredible was recently stated that we shouldn't get so attached to a plot.  Well, if that's a truthful quote of what was said then this indicates a real problem at BW and for fans of ME-type games going forward.  The story and the plot was the thing that set it apart.  It wasn't gunning and running, mindless drivel.  It wasn't immersive merely because it had a story.  CoD games have "stories" too, but I can stop playing one of them and come back months later and pick it up and continue and not care about the story that came before.  I don't need to go back over anything to play it and it basically plays itself, as long as I shoot all the right guys.  ME is different.  We have different characters with different ideas.  That says the character of Shepard drives the story.  Shepard is the plot.  I just want them to take another look and see how what they created was interpreted by fans. 

If it is art, the artist does not always define what it says.  The viewer interacts with and interprets it-fans did and a great many said, "this is what was most important to us".  I hope they will see that.  And I also wanted them to know that this is not about hate.  If we dislike the endings it's based not on hate but on the love a great many of us have for the rest of the series.

What is sad is that so many get mad at us for focusing on a minute portion of the game-the last few minutes.  Well, I get mad because they are doing the same thing.  They have called us names based upon how we feel about those last few minutes.  I dislike the endings, so I'm called a hater.  Well, how nice to ignore all the rest of the stuff that I don't dislike.  I loved about 90% of ME3 and so that's maybe 97% of ME as a whole that I loved because nothing in the previous games rise to the level of dislike that I have for ME3's endings.  So, I am 97% a lover of ME games and 3% a disliker, and for that I'm labeled a hater.  Well, I love my family but there are things I don't like that some of them do-by this estimation that means I hate my family so I'm a hater.  I'll have to tell them that-I think they'd disagree.

The BW brand and ME in particular has suffered.  It would be unwise for them as a company to ignore that.  No amount of Leviathan-type DLC is going to help that and in fact, there are indications it's doing the opposite.  They are losing standing in the eyes of those that were staunch supporters.  Review sites are not raving about it and are saying that no matter what you think about the endings, pre-ending DLC is kind of pointless.  Google the reviews for IGN, G4TV, Game Informer/Game Stop and so on.  This indicates a problem.  I don't want there to be problems.  I want BW to continue making ME type games, but in order for that to happen there has to be a meeting of the minds.  They have to understand we want them to return to and continue to do what they do best and we have to understand that we need to be constructive and specific about what we care about here-and not always be pointing fingers (though I do and have done a lot of that myself-I am not without blame).

If we like ME type games, we need to let them know it.  And if we want more (yes, Shepard's story is done AFTER ME3) then we have be specific in stating that we are asking them to remember the characters and especially the hero.

This

What it comes down to is Bioware seems to be disconnected from its players, and they seem to be in denial about any reviews other than the ones at sites where they also sell advertising. Unfortunately, they're also holding the line whether because of hubris, or denial, or not wanting to admit how badly they fubared the game. Bioware has always been known for making great RPGs. But if they're happier switching to shooters or hack and slash, they have to understand that they'll lose much of the player base that has sustained them. My initial thought after my first playthrough, besides WTF??, was that they were insane to think I'd want to buy more DLC after they killed Shepard.

And after having watched some of Leviathan, I still say, what's the point? I read the Game Front review, and it echoed my thoughts exactly.  Few are going to be interested in more "meh" pre-ending DLC that affects nothing unless the ending is resolved in a way that doesn't lead to sparkly green eyes and reaper puppies for everyone.

Furthermore, $10 for a three hour addition to the game isn't worth it, imo. Compare that to Dawnguard for $20, but its a true expansion, not an evening's diversion.

[Calamity]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

I completely agree with 3DandBeyond, the EE made the endings more bearable but I'm still not happy with Mass Effect 3's ending, it felt like Shepard had to sacrifice what he or she stood for, or die (Destroy & Refuse) and that teaser with Shepard breathing isn't enough for me. I want a full ending, sure the epilogues were nicely done, (Destroy felt the most heroic and paragon even though it's considered renegade) control felt evil and eerie, the music was well done, and Synthesis was heart warming with EDI's speach. But you could keep those, but add even more to the end, give us a proper end, hell I want a end where everyone who survives is reunited!

Please give us at least post-end DLC or better yet, a whole new ending, BioWare. You owe us, us, the fans have supported you and made you who you are today. 

Quoted for <3

[Calamity]

Jackie09 wrote...

Honestly I understand what they did with the endings I respect them and will continue to support bioware...HOWEVER I do wish they would more more story content if you got the shepard drawing a breath. When I went into the final battle I was feeling the David Tennant's doctor in doctor who I go into the TARDIS get ready for my transformation and at the last minute I look at the screen and say "I don't want to go" and boom dead!

I understand that people are upset about the ending but yet Shepard's story is over they shouldn't have teased us with a "perfect ending" where shepard..lives(?) shepard had to die therefore we know without a doubt s/he is done! I do not want an ME4 but since I got the one where shepard lives I just want to know how the reunion went.

While beating the game again I realized maybe bioware is giving us hope that Shepard reunites and fills in our own blanks instead of being spoon fed.

I like you Jackie   There is a certain amount of dread heading to the ending isnt there?

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

so does everyone else, but when you buy and play Story based DLCs people expect to see that play some part of the final mission or the ending, which they do none

It might have been a problem for you but as givenmy example it is not a problem for me. I am sure I am not the only one who see's it that way either. Some people buy DLC because they just like to shoot things and enjoy the combat and a new place to visit, some buy it because wanted to find out more lore and backstory. You personally wanted changes to the ending? But that is personal to you, the DLC was not pointless however because as said many people bought for many reasons and not everyone bought assuming would change the ending especially given they said would not outside of dialogue and such.

I already knew Leviathan wasn't gonna do anything for the ending, but was I expecting it to do some changes to the Earth mission? Yes I was. And your right people play for different reasons, but I never played Mass Effect for the action which I consider it secondary because it is/was an aRPG. I play it for the characters, story, and the RPG elements. Leviathan really only gave backstory for the Starbrat and gave a fake reason for why the Reapers look the same, but you gain a really powerful ally and they become useless War Assets.

Modifié par AresKeith, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:09 .

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...
so does everyone else, but when you buy and play Story based DLCs people expect to see that play some part of the final mission or the ending, which they do none

This exactly especially when the DLC is based on coming before the ending chronologically.  If none of the endings is upbeat at all, especially in a game and story that was never this depressing and abhorrent the DLC becomes less desirable.

For instance, why not have us be there to torture Jack as a child, at the beginning of ME2.  Or, in ME1 we should decide to create the genophage.  We should be the quarians that started killing the geth.  We should in fact be playing the game as the reapers.  The ending then would make sense.

If we played as someone who worked on a reaper making people goo and loving it, I could buy forcing a character into 3 dark choices (with way too happy slides, narration, and cutscenes at the end).

But, with someone who had values and morals that the player could define, these endings offer me nothing and that is easily foreseeable.  A dev and story teller would know this.

You don't have a hero that can make the most moral choices be locked into 3 that have no real moral choice for them.  It's like creating a Mother Theresa character and forcing her into deciding to feed the starving by stealing food from other starving people.  How could she make a choice?  She couldn't. Now, I'm not saying Shepard is a saint, but there are some clearly defined good choices that one could make and they go completely counter to what we're given at the end.  I have so many reasons for not choosing one of those and no good reasons for choosing them.

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I think I repeatedly see a theme here. I see some that come here and are only concerned for their own interests. While others come here and are trying to see the bigger picture. Unhappy fans may have found this to be the tipping point-given that too much hype has entered the gaming world. Promises exist within that hype and DLC that adds things such as war asset numbers really does imply something more could take place, especially when the story seems to back it up. I don't think some people even care to read much of the stuff that is within the games, in the codex, and all over the place so DLC is just for pretty colors, awesome weapons, and nothing that really adds to the story. That's so unlike what ME was about before all this.

They have never ever said as a developer that Shepard living happy ever after or even surviving is a intended theme of their games, it is merely a theme you applied to it because x, y and z might have happened somewhere within it along the way. Just like how I said I saw a different theme to what you think you saw in it due to parts within the game. Those are subjective and personal applied themes not intended themes which were explained to you via the creator.

Your only actually concerned for your own interests. Adding bows and sprinkles to pretend otherwise is silly. It is about what you want plain and simple. Do you think Bioware has all the time and money in world to make everything everyone wants in the truly vast amounts of methods they would like to see things changed? Taking into account whatever they make for you could prevent something for another due to time and money taken away from something else... especially when for example there are many people who want things like catalyst or assets shown via different way or methods different to your own? Are you assuming they will make all those methods possible via DLC for everyone who wants something different to yourself like a IT theory DLC, a changed purpose of catalyst DLC, a puzzle theory DLC, conventional victory via catalyst altering DLC, a conventional victory despite catalyst DLC etc etc?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
so does everyone else, but when you buy and play Story based DLCs people expect to see that play some part of the final mission or the ending, which they do none

This exactly especially when the DLC is based on coming before the ending chronologically.  If none of the endings is upbeat at all, especially in a game and story that was never this depressing and abhorrent the DLC becomes less desirable.

For instance, why not have us be there to torture Jack as a child, at the beginning of ME2.  Or, in ME1 we should decide to create the genophage.  We should be the quarians that started killing the geth.  We should in fact be playing the game as the reapers.  The ending then would make sense.

If we played as someone who worked on a reaper making people goo and loving it, I could buy forcing a character into 3 dark choices (with way too happy slides, narration, and cutscenes at the end).

But, with someone who had values and morals that the player could define, these endings offer me nothing and that is easily foreseeable.  A dev and story teller would know this.

You don't have a hero that can make the most moral choices be locked into 3 that have no real moral choice for them.  It's like creating a Mother Theresa character and forcing her into deciding to feed the starving by stealing food from other starving people.  How could she make a choice?  She couldn't. Now, I'm not saying Shepard is a saint, but there are some clearly defined good choices that one could make and they go completely counter to what we're given at the end.  I have so many reasons for not choosing one of those and no good reasons for choosing them.

You have a moral choice is. Your personal morality is disagreement or defiance of the choices presented, it's called refuse. Your stance in reality not about moral choices, it is about effect of your choice, you wanted your own subjective happy ending for sticking to your morals. Those are two different things. You do get to make that moral choice, you just do not get the outcome you want for sticking to your morals.

[Ozida]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They have never ever said as a developer that Shepard living happy ever after or even surviving is a intended theme of their games, it is merely a theme you applied to it because x, y and z might have happened somewhere within it along the way.

Wouldn't it be silly to assume a painful death for your protagonist from the very start? Especially when you are proven that Shepard survives and rises against all odds during first and second games? It was a mixed message that BW has sent. In ME1 and ME2 Shepard was an idealistic hero, who managed to come out of all troubles with minimum blood and sweat. Suicide mission? Not a problem, all survived. Death at space? Thanks to Cerberus, back to live. Killing all those batarians? Nah, no trial for that either... And then, all of a sudden game turns into dark and painful story of a pathetic old soldier that has nightmares, acts tired and annoyed and has to sacrifice a lot to achieve somewhat that's not even a full victory. It either the first two games had to be darker, or the last game had to be lighter, but the tone of all 3 conflict a lot. And that is why, I think, most people didn't think that phrase: "This is the end of Shepard's story" would mean "Choose your way to kill the character".

Dragoonlordz wrote...
I also see a theme here, your only actually concerned for your own interests. Adding bows and sprinkles to pretend otherwise is silly. It is about what you want plain and simple. Do you think Bioware has all the time and money in world to make everything everyone wants in the truly vast amounts of methods they would like to see things changed? Taking into account whatever they make for you could prevent something for another due to time and money taken away from something else... especially when for example there are many people who want things like catalyst or assets shown via different way or methods different to your own? Are you assuming they will make all those methods possible via DLC for everyone who wants something different to yourself liek a IT theory DLC, a changed purpose of catalyst DLC, a puzzle theory DLC, conventional victory via catalyst altering DLC, a conventional victory despite catalyst DLC etc etc?

This is not true. Original post represends the message that many people want, it is a reasonable request that doesn't concern the major feautures of the game. Yes, it's individual desire combined, however, into a mass demand. And, excuse me, but BioWare did make huge profit on ME3, so should they wanted to create additional DLC, they would've had the resources. It is just they don't want to for some reason, although there are people ready to pay for it.

Modifié par Ozida, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[3DandBeyond]

Ozida wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
It might have been a problem for you but as givenmy example it is not a problem for me. I am sure I am not the only one who see's it that way either. Some people buy DLC because they just like to shoot things and enjoy the combat and a new place to visit, some buy it because wanted to find out more lore and backstory. You personally wanted changes to the ending? But that is personal to you, the DLC was not pointless however because as said many people bought for many reasons and not everyone bought assuming would change the ending especially given they said would not outside of dialogue and such.

Exactly! And we are back to the original request of this topic: to have a separate paid DLC, because some people just like to invest in a story and want to see something additional to existing options. So could we have our victorious DLC now, please?

Yes, I think it is singulary unselfish of those of us that want more to not suggest that those that find the endings to be sufficient (many who have even also gotten rid of their games) wouldn't have to give up anything.  The problem with the quoted post is that that shooting stuff and enjoying combat will ruin ME in the long run.  That wasn't what drew people to it, nor is it a sustainable model.  ME had diverse fans that loved the stories and the characters.  I have fun shooting stuff, but that is not why I played this game, nor is it the case for a huge segment of ME fans.  There are enough games for that already. 

Lore and backstory is meaningless if you've played a meh ending, and if it does nothing for the ending.  So you get cool new guns-what for?  To not win the game again by shooting them?  Great.  ME was not about cool looking green eyes and all that superficial stuff like looking cool while shooting my gun.  It was a character driven story.  The rest is tangential to that.

It's up to them if they want to go toward a CoD kind of game, but it will ruin them.  What they have is unique, what that is is mediocrity.  Lead or follow.

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
It might have been a problem for you but as givenmy example it is not a problem for me. I am sure I am not the only one who see's it that way either. Some people buy DLC because they just like to shoot things and enjoy the combat and a new place to visit, some buy it because wanted to find out more lore and backstory. You personally wanted changes to the ending? But that is personal to you, the DLC was not pointless however because as said many people bought for many reasons and not everyone bought assuming would change the ending especially given they said would not outside of dialogue and such.

Exactly! And we are back to the original request of this topic: to have a separate paid DLC, because some people just like to invest in a story and want to see something additional to existing options. So could we have our victorious DLC now, please?

Yes, I think it is singulary unselfish of those of us that want more to not suggest that those that find the endings to be sufficient (many who have even also gotten rid of their games) wouldn't have to give up anything.  The problem with the quoted post is that that shooting stuff and enjoying combat will ruin ME in the long run.  That wasn't what drew people to it, nor is it a sustainable model.  ME had diverse fans that loved the stories and the characters.  I have fun shooting stuff, but that is not why I played this game, nor is it the case for a huge segment of ME fans.  There are enough games for that already. 

Lore and backstory is meaningless if you've played a meh ending, and if it does nothing for the ending.  So you get cool new guns-what for?  To not win the game again by shooting them?  Great.  ME was not about cool looking green eyes and all that superficial stuff like looking cool while shooting my gun.  It was a character driven story.  The rest is tangential to that.

It's up to them if they want to go toward a CoD kind of game, but it will ruin them.  What they have is unique, what that is is mediocrity.  Lead or follow.

How on earth would it ruin it? If people bought it for that to them is is not ruined to get more of what bought for. It might ruin it for you personally but it does not ruin it for all. In fact CoD games make more money then RPGs so I do not get where you think it will ruin them. Your disdain for that genre and people who play it by applying the term mediocrity to what they might enjoy does you no credit. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:30 .

[Jackie09]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Jackie09 wrote...

Honestly I understand what they did with the endings I respect them and will continue to support bioware...HOWEVER I do wish they would more more story content if you got the shepard drawing a breath. When I went into the final battle I was feeling the David Tennant's doctor in doctor who I go into the TARDIS get ready for my transformation and at the last minute I look at the screen and say "I don't want to go" and boom dead!

I understand that people are upset about the ending but yet Shepard's story is over they shouldn't have teased us with a "perfect ending" where shepard..lives(?) shepard had to die therefore we know without a doubt s/he is done! I do not want an ME4 but since I got the one where shepard lives I just want to know how the reunion went.

While beating the game again I realized maybe bioware is giving us hope that Shepard reunites and fills in our own blanks instead of being spoon fed.

You see I think we as fans are more capable of dealing with the idea that Shepard's story is over and Shepard lives than I think you are giving us credit for.  It's the fact that people wanted full closure on that that didn't leave them rather depressed about the whole thing (and that was done in an authentic way) that has people upset in part.

I don't need to see Shepard dead to know ME3 was the end of Shepard's story arc.  I've read plenty of books and one series I read was like at least 11 books long and characters came and went throughout and that was fine.  I would be happy for an ME4 in the post ME3 galaxy with a new hero IF I had one plausible possible decent ending for Shepard.  The torso in rubble is not any of those things and the other choices are unconscionable acts for me and not any way to end this series that was all about real relatable characters with hearts and souls.  I also can imagine a lot, but I don't think head canon is a great way to end over 100 hours of play either.  It limits and destroys replayability for a series that stressed replayability as a core concept.  You were constantly told to replay it for a completely different story, but all roads lead to Rome when maybe I want to go to Edinburgh.

Yeah all road lead to Rome that's because that is how it is. Some way or another the reapers are destroyed and if not; the next 50,000 yrs had a chance to destroy them. The replay for your one character is destory but if you made different choices in ME2 you have a new ME3 experience. If you have a save where everyone lives and dies those completely change your ME3 experience granted your ending is the same but that is how it is; 
The replay value of ME3 isn't about ME3 its about the Mass Effect as a whole game. Every decision you made in 1 and then 2 changes your ME3 playthrough experence.  

You said the endings were "
 I'm sorry, but it does come down to being forced into genocide, totalitarianism, or forced eugenics on an uninformed galaxy.  It's a game. " 
I think you are reading a bit too much into them and even if they are that you have a choice not to choose any of those. Also if you do want to put it that way obviously bioware wants us to choose synthesis because that is what we have been doing the entire time bringing together the universe and this option would just bring us together with synthetics a fully united universe. 

or maybe 
I'm missing and I truly don't see a clear cut explaination is why people are upset with the ending. 

Modifié par Jackie09, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I think I repeatedly see a theme here. I see some that come here and are only concerned for their own interests. While others come here and are trying to see the bigger picture. Unhappy fans may have found this to be the tipping point-given that too much hype has entered the gaming world. Promises exist within that hype and DLC that adds things such as war asset numbers really does imply something more could take place, especially when the story seems to back it up. I don't think some people even care to read much of the stuff that is within the games, in the codex, and all over the place so DLC is just for pretty colors, awesome weapons, and nothing that really adds to the story. That's so unlike what ME was about before all this.

They have never ever said as a developer that Shepard living happy ever after or even surviving is a intended theme of their games, it is merely a theme you applied to it because x, y and z might have happened somewhere within it along the way. Just like how I said I saw a different theme to what you think you saw in it due to parts within the game. Those are subjective and personal applied themes not intended themes which were explained to you via the creator.

Your only actually concerned for your own interests. Adding bows and sprinkles to pretend otherwise is silly. It is about what you want plain and simple. Do you think Bioware has all the time and money in world to make everything everyone wants in the truly vast amounts of methods they would like to see things changed? Taking into account whatever they make for you could prevent something for another due to time and money taken away from something else... especially when for example there are many people who want things like catalyst or assets shown via different way or methods different to your own? Are you assuming they will make all those methods possible via DLC for everyone who wants something different to yourself like a IT theory DLC, a changed purpose of catalyst DLC, a puzzle theory DLC, conventional victory via catalyst altering DLC, a conventional victory despite catalyst DLC etc etc?

Please find a direct quote of mine where I ever said they said Shepard living happily ever after was a theme.  I have never once said they stated there would be any such thing.  The proof is in the pudding though-it is a repeated theme of the game.  It is just as expected as is the idea that if you pull a trigger on a gun in the game, it will most likely shoot (with ammo or clips).

Ok, here's one for you-a freebie.  Read up on story writing.  Stories create internal promises.  Story series do so especially.  What came before partially predicts what will be shown later on.  Shepard was the hero of 3 games and 100plus hours of story.  ME1-Shepard thought to be dead, survives.  ME2-Shepard dead, survives.  Suicide Mission-all most likely will die, it's suicide.  Shepard survives and whole team can survive.  ME3-original endings.  Shepard dies, must die in all 3 because Mac Walters said the galaxy would be a wasteland and relays exploded and/or ruptured, torso is alone (need MP to see it gasp), and Normandy is stranded.  Torso is screwed.  Ipso facto, Shepard is dead in all 3 endings.

EC-promise of closure and clarity-fans had been begging to know what torso gasping meant-many said they thought when EC was released it wouldn't change the endings but the least they wanted was for the torso to be found and a reunion-not bunnies and skipping and babies, just a scene of a reunion with the torso found.

From Wikipedia:

Closure or need for closure are psychological terms that
describe the desire or "need" some individuals have for information that
will allow them to conclude an issue that had previously (for them at
least) been clouded in ambiguity and uncertainty.


Continued ambiguity is not closure.  Closure is closure and they knew darn well people wanted this.  On twitter a BW employee was asked if a reunion would happen and she said yes it would.  The intent was clear, especially since she did a lot of the work on looking at fan feedback for the original endings.  She would have had to be living in a closet to not know people wanted a real reunion at a bare minimum.  When the EC came out and people tried to get a reunion they asked her about it-she said it was implied and then said she never said there would be a reunion.  That's untrue.  The tweet was posted here in many different threads.  It was said and now they believe ambiguity is closure.  It is not.  Read the definition above and understand closure removes ambiguity.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How on earth would it ruin it? If people bought it for that to them is is not ruined to get more of what bought for. It might ruin it for you personally but it does not ruin it for all. In fact CoD games make more money then RPGs so I do not get where you think it will ruin them. Your disdain for that genre and people who play it by applying the term mediocrity to what they might enjoy does you no credit. 

So you really don't get that line. It doesn't matter if shooter games makes more than RPGs, you don't compromise your Genre to appeal to another style of games

[Dragoonlordz]

Ozida wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
I also see a theme here, your only actually concerned for your own interests. Adding bows and sprinkles to pretend otherwise is silly. It is about what you want plain and simple. Do you think Bioware has all the time and money in world to make everything everyone wants in the truly vast amounts of methods they would like to see things changed? Taking into account whatever they make for you could prevent something for another due to time and money taken away from something else... especially when for example there are many people who want things like catalyst or assets shown via different way or methods different to your own? Are you assuming they will make all those methods possible via DLC for everyone who wants something different to yourself liek a IT theory DLC, a changed purpose of catalyst DLC, a puzzle theory DLC, conventional victory via catalyst altering DLC, a conventional victory despite catalyst DLC etc etc?

This is not true. Original post represends the message that many people want, it is a reasonable request that doesn't concern the major feautures of the game. Yes, it's individual desire combined, however, into a mass demand. And, excuse me, but BioWare did make huge profit on ME3, so should they wanted to create additional DLC, they would've had the resources. It is just they don't want to for some reason, although there are people ready to pay for it.

You d not know how much profit they made or whther such profit could pay for infinite DLC of all kind that cater to every group that wants something. It also does not take into account that takes months to make each DLC and a lot of DLC financing is not about just cutting into the profit from a previous product but in reality has to make that money back from the DLC itself. The question I posed still remain, even if group hates the ending, that group is broken down into even more groups in how they want that ending or even part changed.

Each one of those groups within that group want different things and each of those things cost vast amounts of money and time to create. That time and money in creating it is taken away from time and money creating something else of which a lot of it revolves around changing the same thing but in vastly many different ways. The reality is even in this thread where a few dozen people have said would buy a DLC like OP suggested that is still just a few dozen who openly said willing to buy it and by no means comes even close to the cost of it's creation compared to amount who agreed in it's creation within this thread.

As such Bioware is the only one who can decide to make something or not because they look at the bigger picture of how many want x, y or z on much larger scale. After EC the amount who want what you do according to them is much lower and low enough not for them to move on and create other content. They are the ones who have to draw the line in the sand between what to do or not, what to invest their time making or money spend creating. In this case they have drawn that line and maybe because the demand for the very specific change you want is not as much as you think it is especially after EC. It does not cost single digit numbers to make DLC, be closer to fice or six digit numbers to do so. A few dozen in here does not come close to such number. Lets take this specific thread as exmaple to guage demand for the OP's idea for what wants for DLC, few dozen does not bode well for support vs cost.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How on earth would it ruin it? If people bought it for that to them is is not ruined to get more of what bought for. It might ruin it for you personally but it does not ruin it for all. In fact CoD games make more money then RPGs so I do not get where you think it will ruin them. Your disdain for that genre and people who play it by applying the term mediocrity to what they might enjoy does you no credit. 

So you really don't get that line. It doesn't matter if shooter games makes more than RPGs, you don't compromise your Genre to appeal to another style of games

Genre lines have been blurred for many years and now we have many elements taken from all genres in most games to some extent and in fact one of the Bioware founders himself said Bioware do not see what they make as making 'RPG's' at all. They make good stories but RPGs are not the only one with such. Personally I only buy games with enough RPG 'elements' for my liking but you mentioned genres and Bioware according to themselves do not intentionally make 'RPG's' according to one of the very people who created the studio. I was also in a thread on here recently which pointed out a lot of the elemtns that make RPG's as a genre also are present in sports games.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:50 .

[D24O]

In on 100.

[PhyroClone]

I fully agree and support this plea/article. I would like to see a DLC that do away with the old endings all together and give you only one ending, but that ending depends on every choice (right or wrong, good or bad) that you (the player) made through out ME3. The ending I would have loved to see for my Shepard was one of triumph that proves that human streangth comes from their endurance and defiance of giving up. That our true greatness comes from our unwillingness to submit to the oppression of some bully who's warped sense of logic deemed us humans a weak, chaotic and/or barbaric cancer that needed to be destroyed. Why not give us a DLC where we can tell that little Architect (The Matrix, yes this has been done before) AI "Ghost Child" to take his logic and stick it where the sun doesn't shine and show this ancient race of machines that in the face of impossible odds it is then we organics stand together and become strong enough to beat any challenge and live to tell the tale. Genocide, Totalitarianism, forced synthasis or extinction cannot be the only answers. In Anderson's own words "There is always another way!" Give us an ending where we are the masters of our own destinies, where the choices we made and efforts we put in counts for something and is not simply discarded at the end like it didn't matter. (I didn't do everything in my power to establish peace between the Quarians and the Geth just to see the Geth and EDI whiped out just so I can live and end up branded a selfish bastard). Sure, Bioware, you can call it art, but we never commissioned you to write this game. You created this so people will buy it for their enjoyment and you can make money off it and the endings took the enjoyment out of it for a lot of us. It is not too late, as many have said, to listen to the fans. With games (and DLC) you have the freedom to create something for everyone. Those who are saticefied with the endings as they are don't have to download the DLC's. That way everyone can be happy and you can once again and you can corner the market as the best game designing company out there.

[Vigilant111]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You have a moral choice is. Your personal morality is disagreement or defiance of the choices presented, it's called refuse. Your stance in reality not about moral choices, it is about effect of your choice, you wanted your own subjective happy ending for sticking to your morals. Those are two different things. You do get to make that moral choice, you just do not get the outcome you want for sticking to your morals.

So much for objective opinion, did it occur to you that you liked the ending because it satisfies your own PERSONAL moral standards? Everyone has different needs, sure, you are cool with the ending, but other people aren't, no need for you to come in an appeal thread to give some lecture