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[Lunch Box1912]

They over thought the story part and forgot about it being an RPG?

[Iakus]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

At the end of the day we are still following a Bioware story line even if we have made decisions and choices to alter the path. (I know this question answers itself but just ponder for the moment) Is it a forced Shepard sacrifice if the main story line involves killing off Shepard?

Yes.

Edit:  To elaborate, Shepard is the player character, whom we, as said player are supposed to have a degree of agency over.  To force such an act on the player without offering an alternative is the very definition of railroading.

Modifié par iakus, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[3DandBeyond]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

They over thought the story part and forgot about it being an RPG?

From things I've read it is almost like the people that liked the great story aspect of the games wanted a real action packed ending with a real fight.  The people that like more action usually (you can read it here in some posts where some say they just love shooting and the combat) and less story, liked the endings.  This is counter-intuitive. 

What it seems to be like is this:
Like a great cohesive story--wanted ending with lots of fighting, use of war assets, (un)conventional victory.
Like a lot of shooting and more action, story not as important--happier with current endings.

This is what I have observed.  To me the best way to have ended this would have been an all out fight, a real gasp for breath for the galaxy trying to survive.

Many of those that say the endings are ok or better (many of them, most that I've read the posts of here and elsewhere) don't try to delve too deeply into the endings and say they look cool and save the galaxy.

Many of those that don't like the endings give detailed reasons for why they think they are bad.  They have looked into them to see what they say and what they show and they don't think the slides depict what the choices ask them to do.

You would think that people that like action games would want the big fight at the end and the people that like the story would want some intellectually based discussion of the reapers' reasons.  I don't know for a fact this isn't so, but it appears not to be.

[3DandBeyond]

alleyd wrote...


You wouldn't need to change much to make them fit to a Mass Effect theme. the just fall better into place as they are I think.

(IE Sorry for now Dee, I have to declince the request old showman thing from a musical **** like myself. Keep the Audience wanting more...Or get the hell off the stage before people really start throwing things.

But if we throw enough tomatoes, you might eat for a week.

[Reptilian Rob]

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

[Lunch Box1912]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I understand Shepard must die, that’s what makes the story good (correction) IMO … sacrifice. The way Bioware did it felt rushed and poorly thought out. I’m no writer but I would like to see what a Pat Weekes ending would look like. I’m a huge fan of the wrapping up of the Genophage. It had everything the end of the game lacks.

We still love you Bioware, even if we didn’t love the ending. Keep the single player DLC coming!

And nice touch, liked the added Catalyst dialogue after completing the Leviathan DLC.

Fixed. Added IMO.

Sacrifice doesn't make the story good for everyone.

forced Sacrifice you mean, Bioware shouldn't have tried to kill Shepard in every single ending. Thats very bad writing

At the end of the day we are still following a Bioware story line even if we have made decisions and choices to alter the path. (I know this question answers itself but just ponder for the moment) Is it a forced Shepard sacrifice if the main story line involves killing off Shepard?

what Julia said, in an RPG type you shouldn't force it. I could be one of the endings and it should be an option to do, ME3 endings basically forces you to do in every single ending

The more I think about this the more I agree with you.

I just wanted to clarify

[3DandBeyond]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

Yes, but I care and you care and other people care and this is where the action is.

[AresKeith]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I just wanted to clarify

thank you, when I first started ME3 and knew there was multiple endings, I expected Shepard to die but in one of the endings. Even though I was also excepting the ending to be similar to ME2's ending where its one ending that can branch off in many ways

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I just wanted to clarify

thank you, when I first started ME3 and knew there was multiple endings, I expected Shepard to die but in one of the endings. Even though I was also excepting the ending to be similar to ME2's ending where its one ending that can branch off in many ways

This was exactly it.  I too thought they were telling us Shepard would die an awful lot-and even way too hard.  It was like they started the game and wanted us to say goodbye to Shepard already by sending in someone that looked and sounded like Shepard, but said really odd things.

But, I thought all along we'd be fighting the reapers at the end and Shepard might die, others might die, the reapers might win, but I also thought the opposite might take place.

[Reptilian Rob]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

Yes, but I care and you care and other people care and this is where the action is.

There's a lot of action in the sack, that's for sure.

[Lunch Box1912]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

They over thought the story part and forgot about it being an RPG?

From things I've read it is almost like the people that liked the great story aspect of the games wanted a real action packed ending with a real fight.  The people that like more action usually (you can read it here in some posts where some say they just love shooting and the combat) and less story, liked the endings.  This is counter-intuitive. 

What it seems to be like is this:
Like a great cohesive story--wanted ending with lots of fighting, use of war assets, (un)conventional victory.
Like a lot of shooting and more action, story not as important--happier with current endings.

This is what I have observed.  To me the best way to have ended this would have been an all out fight, a real gasp for breath for the galaxy trying to survive.

Many of those that say the endings are ok or better (many of them, most that I've read the posts of here and elsewhere) don't try to delve too deeply into the endings and say they look cool and save the galaxy.

Many of those that don't like the endings give detailed reasons for why they think they are bad.  They have looked into them to see what they say and what they show and they don't think the slides depict what the choices ask them to do.

You would think that people that like action games would want the big fight at the end and the people that like the story would want some intellectually based discussion of the reapers' reasons.  I don't know for a fact this isn't so, but it appears not to be.

I'm a stoyline gamer the story has to be good, the game play being good is just a plus.

I wasn't satisfied with the endings originally, I'm still not satisfied I've just kind of come to except it.?( I've almost got myself convinced it's ok be gentle with me)

[3DandBeyond]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

Yes, but I care and you care and other people care and this is where the action is.

There's a lot of action in the sack, that's for sure.

Until someone with cold toes comes along and ruins the afterglow.

However, I must keep this on track.

I'm just asking Bioware to reconsider this whole fiasco.  If we have failed you and you have failed us and we keep dancing around each other, we get nowhere.  Take us home, feel the love, dance the dance with us again.  Please. 

I believe you love this game and don't like it when others don't.  You only think you don't care about us anymore, but I could have sworn I saw you looking at us the other day and we weren't looking too ugly anymore. 

We got cleaned up, shaved our mustaches and our back hair and the guys picked the lint out of their belly buttons, hand combed their slick hair and put on a shirt and pants and they are ready for a meet and greet.  We just all need to be introduced all over again.  We want to meet halfway.  Ok, yes the females will put their clothes on too.  If you insist.

Please do reconsider this.  We loved these games.  And we loved you for making them.  Now this isn't life and death, not even close, but put yourselves in our shoes for once.  I've talked with a great many people so I'm not just talking about my wishes at all here, but I can only say this in my words, not theirs.  Many people don't have a lot of money.  ME was what they spent their money on for their entertainment.  I won't go into it all, but one young man works and goes to school and hasn't got a lot of money.  He loved ME and played 1 and 2 over and over again.  ME3 is depressing at the end for him.  He can't sell it, couldn't return it, and can't afford any other games this season.  He saved up some money for DLC, but he can't see playing ME3 again.  He wants to, but it's too sad.  Please reconsider all this.  Take a look not only at what people have said, but at how they have loved ME.

[Reptilian Rob]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

Yes, but I care and you care and other people care and this is where the action is.

There's a lot of action in the sack, that's for sure.

Until someone with cold toes comes along and ruins the afterglow.

However, I must keep this on track.

I'm just asking Bioware to reconsider this whole fiasco.  If we have failed you and you have failed us and we keep dancing around each other, we get nowhere.  Take us home, feel the love, dance the dance with us again.  Please. 

I believe you love this game and don't like it when others don't.  You only think you don't care about us anymore, but I could have sworn I saw you looking at us the other day and we weren't looking too ugly anymore. 

We got cleaned up, shaved our mustaches and our back hair and the guys picked the lint out of their belly buttons, hand combed their slick hair and put on a shirt and pants and they are ready for a meet and greet.  We just all need to be introduced all over again.  We want to meet halfway.  Ok, yes the females will put their clothes on too.  If you insist.

Please do reconsider this.  We loved these games.  And we loved you for making them.  Now this isn't life and death, not even close, but put yourselves in our shoes for once.  I've talked with a great many people so I'm not just talking about my wishes at all here, but I can only say this in my words, not theirs.  Many people don't have a lot of money.  ME was what they spent their money on for their entertainment.  I won't go into it all, but one young man works and goes to school and hasn't got a lot of money.  He loved ME and played 1 and 2 over and over again.  ME3 is depressing at the end for him.  He can't sell it, couldn't return it, and can't afford any other games this season.  He saved up some money for DLC, but he can't see playing ME3 again.  He wants to, but it's too sad.  Please reconsider all this.  Take a look not only at what people have said, but at how they have loved ME.

I honestly think this was planned because they are going to be releasing a better scenario later on for $$$.

Because they know people will pay for it. Disgusting strategy, but it works. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

They over thought the story part and forgot about it being an RPG?

You know I think this is it right here.

They forgot it was a role playing game. They forgot the player was making choices that mattered to them and cast those aside to get the ending the writers wanted.

------

Now I keep going back to Dragon Age Origins because in that game you were faced with sacrifice. The soul of the Archdemon would be absorbed by a Warden and the Warden would die in the process. Now, the writers gave the player several ways of going about this.

1) The player could take their warden in with two teammates, both being non-wardens. This would result in a player sacrifice and would unlock the "Ultimate Sacrifice" achievement.

2) The player could take either Alister (the other Warden), or Logain (if they'd made Logain a warden -- Alister would leave), and this one would make the killing blow and die. The player would still get the win, but would survive.

3) Then there was the "dark ritual" offered by Morrigan where the player (if male) could sire a child with Morrigan, or if female could convince Alister or Logain to sire a child. Upon killing the archdemon, the soul would be absorbed by Morrigan's newly conceived child, and the player character would survive, unlocking the "Dark Ritual" achievement.

You had a choice. A lot of players sacrificed their warden. A lot did not. It was up to the player, not the writer as to how the story would end. Since you could play as different races and it had different experiences for the different races throughout I played it quite a number of times. I kept getting lost on the Deep Roads.

---

I think you see the difference. If you were role playing a more tragic hero in ME3 you could easily choose to sacrifice. I had a 90/10 paragon Shepard I was taking through ME3 who chose Control. I cried doing it, but it was just her way. Young and naive. My 60/40 renegon? Not so naive. Wouldn't choose to self-sacrifice, just not her way -- made a promise to Liara back in ME2 that she would come home and she was going to do everything she could to keep that promise. Writer should provide that option.

[Lunch Box1912]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

They over thought the story part and forgot about it being an RPG?

You know I think this is it right here.

They forgot it was a role playing game. They forgot the player was making choices that mattered to them and cast those aside to get the ending the writers wanted.

------

Now I keep going back to Dragon Age Origins because in that game you were faced with sacrifice. The soul of the Archdemon would be absorbed by a Warden and the Warden would die in the process. Now, the writers gave the player several ways of going about this.

1) The player could take their warden in with two teammates, both being non-wardens. This would result in a player sacrifice and would unlock the "Ultimate Sacrifice" achievement.

2) The player could take either Alister (the other Warden), or Logain (if they'd made Logain a warden -- Alister would leave), and this one would make the killing blow and die. The player would still get the win, but would survive.

3) Then there was the "dark ritual" offered by Morrigan where the player (if male) could sire a child with Morrigan, or if female could convince Alister or Logain to sire a child. Upon killing the archdemon, the soul would be absorbed by Morrigan's newly conceived child, and the player character would survive, unlocking the "Dark Ritual" achievement.

You had a choice. A lot of players sacrificed their warden. A lot did not. It was up to the player, not the writer as to how the story would end. Since you could play as different races and it had different experiences for the different races throughout I played it quite a number of times. I kept getting lost on the Deep Roads.

---

I think you see the difference. If you were role playing a more tragic hero in ME3 you could easily choose to sacrifice. I had a 90/10 paragon Shepard I was taking through ME3 who chose Control. I cried doing it, but it was just her way. Young and naive. My 60/40 renegon? Not so naive. Wouldn't choose to self-sacrifice, just not her way -- made a promise to Liara back in ME2 that she would come home and she was going to do everything she could to keep that promise. Writer should provide that option.

Exactly how I feel couldn't say it better.....

Dragon Age; I sired a child with Morrigan,  I mean it's Morrigan come on. I was like really and you'll leave after, OK

[3DandBeyond]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I want to appeal to Bioware, one last time to please reconsider all this.  The endings as they are ask many of us to do things we cannot in all good conscience do and so they ruin what has been the favorite game of all time for many of us.  Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

I mean this from the heart and I'm just asking, not demanding and merely stating my opinions and preferences.  I mean no insult to anyone, but though I am stating my opinions, I think many others share them.

What caused me to write is this: I have quite a few friends on my friend's list here (not saying this to be arrogant, just pointing something out), and no 2 people come from the same backgrounds or experiences or even very similar ones.  I am so lucky.  But, what it reminds me of is the lack of understanding and appreciation for the fans that Bioware somehow managed to get to love their games.  This is important.  It transcends many other things.  There are people from all over the globe and of all ages and of all political, religious, ethnic, racial, and sexual orientation and alignment.  There are people who have had trouble in life who love(d) these games.  And there are people that have loved a good story, writers, literary critics, literary professors, and just plain folks who have loved these games.  What Bioware had was gold.  I'd say it's due to the heart that the games had.  It was the idea that no matter how bad things got in the game, there was a way to overcome it.  The games reinforced what people would like to be in their real lives-the hero and even the superhero.  This has been squandered for a CoD-like experience. 

Well, I'll repeat what I've said before, if I wanted a CoD-type SP and MP game, I'd play CoD games.  If I want a huge story based game with not so fully developed characters, I'd play Bethesda games.  But, if I want a story that allows me to be in it and to show my character has a heart or is a ruthless renegade, I'd go for ME every time.  And, more than anything, even given all the other unfinished games I have, I'd pick ME and a new Shepard every time over them.

But these endings made me hate ME, not because the games are bad and not because ME3 is bad.  It has some of the, no it has the most poignant moments of any game I've ever played and some of the most of any movie or book I've ever read.  Tuchanka and Mordin get me every time.  But, as someone whose lived a lot of life so far and whose parents served in the Canadian military in WWII, whose uncle was under age and lied about it to fight against the things that this game's endings force me to decide between, I don't feel the heart of ME at the end of ME3.  I'm sorry, but it does come down to being forced into genocide, totalitarianism, or forced eugenics on an uninformed galaxy.  It's a game.  This isn't uplifting or fun.  Why can't you talk about this and let us in on what you were going for, if not this?  If you were trying to make a political statement or a religious one, why do it here?  Let us play and finish the game.

My appeal is this: pay attention to the DLC people are begging you to create and sense the theme there.  Sure, you're free to run your company as you wish, but you asked for all this.  You made us care and then you dropped us like radioactive sludge.  Funny thing is, you misunderstand us still.  You don't get it that we still do care.  We still are asking for an ME4 but can't see it if you do nothing to fix this ME.  People are asking you for reunion DLC and ME2 squadmates' DLC and more romance DLC.  Go back and look at youtube vids prior to the ME3 ending debacle.  Most of them centered on the characters and all that they were doing.  There weren't a lot of "look at my new cool gun" videos-they were "full dialogue and romance between Liara and Shepard" and "romancing Tali" and "Garrus, my bro".  It was more about Mordin's sacrifice than it was about coolness.  And the requests for Omega DLC-what are people asking for with that?  More time with Aria.  Why do people care about Omega?  It's not because it's beautiful-it was Bladerunner dark.  It's because of Aria and Patriarch and so on.  Please understand this.

In making Shepard choose those current endings and not giving people one truly satisfying ending that is the result of people truly uniting and lifting themselves up, you have ruined Shepard for many of us.  In leaving Shepard in a heap in the only possible way for Shepard to live, after committing an unconscionable act, you are seeming to show disdain for fans and for Shepard.  In adding refuse, which has the true Shepard back again, you are proving that people are just plainly incompetent and will fail.  Please share with us what you mean by all this.  It's not fun.

I don't hate you, but I've been called a hater, a whiner, a complainer, and worse.  I'm a human being with feelings and ME appealed to my feelings.  I loved it and loved you for creating it.  I do hate what you did to it.  I hate what you seem to be saying about the aspirations, goals, and the ideals of people.  You seem to be saying that people will always only ever choose the easy way out, even if this includes ruining all that they hold dear to get it.  I truly wish you had chosen someone without depression issues to write ME3's ending.

What I wish you would do is use DLC to add onto the endings to make one ending that will achieve the goal of destroying the reapers, viable and attainable.  Along with that, I wish you would make it possible for Shepard to be alive in the end and have a true, even if quick reunion with friends and LI, and cutscenes, an epilogue of Shepard helping in the unity needed for rebuilding and for the galaxy to get its heart and soul back again after the reapers nearly destroyed all that.  I wish you would consider an ME4, not connected to ME3 with characters and story and such, but one that would refer to the events of ME3 and reapers and Shepard from time to time.  In short, I wish you would consider continuing to make these kinds of games and not go for Call of Duty:ME or just single games-you have a unique type of game and what I think you need is to better balance action and story.  Don't abandon the truly wonderful thing you have created, but don't underestimate the strength of the simpler story and resolution.  You don't have to try to be Kubrick or to look for "art", you had it in the game itself in the stories and in the characters.  You needed to work more with that and not throw everything into the ending and call it art.

I wish you would further consider those requests for post-ME3 DLC for those who want it (and I think there would be many) for reunions and the like.  Consider it.  I think you are missing out on the cash cow that you could have had by not adhering to the world you created.  Play your own games and see what they say and talk to people here.

I know this is all water under the bridge, but Bioware still does have a chance with DLC.  And to stave off complaints from those who would get made about having to pay for it, maybe they could release one last patch for free that wouldn't contain the story content of the DLC, but that would allow those that want it to get the additional dialogue, cutscenes, and EMS to get the "final" endings.  I'd either like to see the Puzzle Theory or my own similar theory be correct, but just anything that results in a possible win ending that would make the game fun again.

I understand this would mean you'd have to change your minds again, but I consider it "doing the right thing".  It wouldn't have to be something everyone would be forced into playing or having, but it would just exist for those that want it.  Games and stories that have always shown people trying to rise above and do better, should have endings that reflect that and reward that.  Please.

Just a reminder here.

[Warrior Craess]

robertthebard wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Wouldn't it be silly to assume a painful death for your protagonist from the very start? Especially when you are proven that Shepard survives and rises against all odds during first and second games? It was a mixed message that BW has sent. In ME1 and ME2 Shepard was an idealistic hero, who managed to come out of all troubles with minimum blood and sweat. Suicide mission? Not a problem, all survived. Death at space? Thanks to Cerberus, back to live. Killing all those batarians? Nah, no trial for that either... And then, all of a sudden game turns into dark and painful story of a pathetic old soldier that has nightmares, acts tired and annoyed and has to sacrifice a lot to achieve somewhat that's not even a full victory. It either the first two games had to be darker, or the last game had to be lighter, but the tone of all 3 conflict a lot. And that is why, I think, most people didn't think that phrase: "This is the end of Shepard's story" would mean "Choose your way to kill the character".

This is not true. Original post represends the message that many people want, it is a reasonable request that doesn't concern the major feautures of the game. Yes, it's individual desire combined, however, into a mass demand. And, excuse me, but BioWare did make huge profit on ME3, so should they wanted to create additional DLC, they would've had the resources. It is just they don't want to for some reason, although there are people ready to pay for it.

I'm fixing to sound really silly then, because frankly, after Sovereign, I didn't see how we were going to beat the Reapers, especially if there were more than a few of them.  Hey, we took out the Collectors too, but you know what, they weren't Reapers.  What was the galaxy doing while I was dead, and then goofing off with Cerberus?  Pretending Reapers didn't exist.  Roll into the Citadel in ME 2 and ask Avina about the Reapers.  Here ya go.  These are the people that are supposed to fight a successful conventional war against the Reapers?  At least, until they show up and then they're like 5:31.  I don't buy it.  I really thought we'd be toast.

We know that we're not going to get a whole re-write, which is what would be needed for a conventional win (or asymetrical war for that matter). But as Leviathan shows, DLC can be writen that Could effect the endings. (IMO no reason that levi didn't effect the ending except BW digging their heels in). 

For example, they could make a DLC with IT except instead of shepard that indoctrinated it's Hackette.... Having to remove him, would allow Primate Victus to lead the  galaxy fleet. allowing new tactics with the new allies and forces, such as Leviathans.

it would allow you to have your same endings, and allow for some expansion for either destroy, or refuse. If it was something that enough people would buy, then why not allow it? 

[Warrior Craess]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

OR is it  www.youtube.com/watch

Is the second Harbinger beam at the end just reminding you that you have been out cold since 7:05 and it was all just a dream.. a dream man! ahahahaha! (evil laugh)

Well, the kid does say "wake up".  At that point Shepard doesn't look asleep, but is probably looking around for something to knock him/her out cold to avoid what's to come.

HAHAHA

hmmm wouldn't it be the ultimate mind f@*k if you woke up in the rubble of Vancouver? 

[AresKeith]

Warrior Craess wrote...

We know that we're not going to get a whole re-write, which is what would be needed for a conventional win (or asymetrical war for that matter). But as Leviathan shows, DLC can be writen that Could effect the endings. (IMO no reason that levi didn't effect the ending except BW digging their heels in). 

For example, they could make a DLC with IT except instead of shepard that indoctrinated it's Hackette.... Having to remove him, would allow Primate Victus to lead the  galaxy fleet. allowing new tactics with the new allies and forces, such as Leviathans.

it would allow you to have your same endings, and allow for some expansion for either destroy, or refuse. If it was something that enough people would buy, then why not allow it? 

well if the Crucible did this in the first place we wouldn't need a rewrite lol http://social.biowar.../index/13721326

[Warrior Craess]

AresKeith wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

We know that we're not going to get a whole re-write, which is what would be needed for a conventional win (or asymetrical war for that matter). But as Leviathan shows, DLC can be writen that Could effect the endings. (IMO no reason that levi didn't effect the ending except BW digging their heels in). 

For example, they could make a DLC with IT except instead of shepard that indoctrinated it's Hackette.... Having to remove him, would allow Primate Victus to lead the  galaxy fleet. allowing new tactics with the new allies and forces, such as Leviathans.

it would allow you to have your same endings, and allow for some expansion for either destroy, or refuse. If it was something that enough people would buy, then why not allow it? 

well if the Crucible did this in the first place we wouldn't need a rewrite lol http://social.biowar.../index/13721326

True, but at this point that could just be a different type of DLC, that specifically tracked down some Salarian (or geth but only if you rewrote the heritics) research on the interaction between Saren and Sovereign.. Maybe make it a Timed DLC so that you need to complete the entire DLC in a certain amount of game time, or the reapers/cerberus get the info and destroy it. 
If you gain the info you can forward it to the crucible and a 4th option appears, but since the reapers still out number us, they exact a terrible tool, and the fleets and worlds why they fight, and depending on how much EMS you have either the reapers finally win, but are suffer so many casualties that the next cycle wins easily in conventional war. To the other extreme, where galaxy forces are finally able to defeat the repears, but the galaxy is nearly wiped out, and several races have been made extinct..  

Hmmm possiblities.....

[saracen16]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@saracen16,
Apparently asking them to reconsider and to think about making content you would not be forced to buy or ever see is a problem.

If I were in their shoes and asked to change my ending for something mediocre, I wouldn't even think about doing an Extended Cut. It's the way the developers made it. It goes against the vein of Mass Effect that no choice is easy and that there is always a sacrifice. You're asking for them to go against their artistic vision. So, yes, I have a problem with that.

I have my feelings about the endings, you have yours.  I am respecting yours and saying fine, keep them.  I am asking BW to do something for a large segment of their public, not yours. 

Spare me the flag-waving and don't pretend to speak for the public. BioWare made these endings for everyone, not just myself. I never asked for these endings because I had no expectations, but I ended up liking the endings that they made. You didn't, and ended up bitter beyond belief. This was how the company decided to end their game, just as how George Lucas decided to end Star Wars Episode VI and how Ridley Scott decided to end Blade Runner. We were never gods in the ME universe and we can't change or curse against the thread. This ending is consistent with what we've had going on so far: a series of choices that allowed us to shape the galaxy as a whole, and the ending is no different.

I never said it was.  I said that that is what it could become and it was in reference to one specific post where the person said people liked the DLC for shooting and combat.  And by the way, it isn't just about what I say-reviewers that stuck behind ME3 and BW have said that about Leviathan.

And so, what if they did? I like the trilogy for both story and combat, and the developers made the game to cater to both those who like story and those who like gunplay. However, the latest Leviathan DLC, if you actually played it, is more story than it is combat, and contains more lore than LotSB or any other DLC would ever have. Hardly a "CoD" clone or a mindless shooter.

I have also said that I am hoping they will remain unique and not try to become a CoD clone-but that is a great part of what seemed off about ME3 as a whole-the autodialog and all.  And Leviathan seems more like that as well.  All you really do in Leviathan is find things in the same place (the lab) and mostly go and shoot stuff.  You get some dialogue and so forth, but choice is limited.  Reviewers are saying this now.  

You haven't even played Leviathan. There is more choice in dialogue than there is in some levels of the original game, and the developers have paid attention to that. Most of the time spent in the previous games with respect to dialog was the same thing over and over again, and the choices in dialog were largely the same. In ME3, they're largely different. Leviathan is still about exploration, more than any other DLC except maybe Bring Down the Sky and Overlord. 

And autodialogue is, I think, a bogus complaint: most of the things you ended up saying in the other two games were largely the same.

And those tough decisions you made throughout never ended up being all dark and depressing and gloomy.  But, you have that now followed by super happy slide shows.

They did: leaving the Rachni to escape means a possibility that they will rise again and restart the Rachni Wars. Saving the Council means humanity will always be considered second-rate, and sacrificing a lot of Alliance troops. Saving the Collector base means that the Illusive Man will have his hands on Reaper tech, and give his organization an edge over everyone else. As for the ending, it's bittersweet. Even the super happy slide shows do little to cover the veneer of danger that is associated with all these choices. 

I am happy for you, but any strategy that involves continually ignoring huge groups of fans is not a winning one

They eventually will ignore a huge group of fans, anyways: one ending will always dissatisfy others. A cliche'd Hollywood ending will always end up dissatisfying many who don't want to see more of the same. The same goes for the current endings. But this is not a democracy. No one asked for Mordin to die or for Legion to sacrifice himself. This was their story. The same goes for the ending: it's their game that they are making.

and it was a logical conclusion that could have been seen everywhere throughout the game that a vast segment of players would not be happy with this type of ending-not given what the story was about before.

You don't have a monopoly on what the story means to me or anyone else for that matter. The trilogy means something different to different people, which is what makes it a personal experience. The ending, I think, goes with every choice made in the trilogy: the theme of sacrifice, the goal of stopping the Reapers... the list goes on. You have a different opinion and failed to see the hints of what was going to happen.

And nothing leading up to the release was geared toward this type of outcome.  I'm merely asking them to reassess this.  You have what you want out of the game, so how would this hurt you?

 

Says you. Everything pointed towards Shepard entering the fray with the Reapers' arrival, and no one said that it would be easy. No one knew what would happen, but ME was always about choice, and that's exactly what the outcome was. ME3 involved a lot of individuals dying and sacrificing themselves to save more than they could. This all geared the game towards the ending that we have right now. Changing all this would mean an overwrite of the entire game because the ending will have to be placed in a different context: that of some fanboy. This is why it would hurt me and the large group of fans who liked the ending, but this is art: this is about what BioWare chooses to express, not about what we want out of them. Forcing them to change it for your emotional ideals hurts them more than you'd think.

[Jadebaby]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

You know, this thread proves we are not a minority.

But, I think BW stopped listening and caring a long time ago...

Yes, but I care and you care and other people care and this is where the action is.

What should be even more alarming to BioWare is that this thread and IT thread are both the threads with the biggest hits on the front page. What do they consist of? People who don't like the endings.

Yes, some ITers "like" the endings, but that's because of their beliefs, not because of the face value interpretation.

Basically, if they never do "something" with the endings, these two groups may even become one, again.