6432 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Xellith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@LadyWench

Again, It was never staed that bioware had to give you the choices you want. That not what the series is about.
And I don't think it's all black and white ether...It is grey ..That's why I'm ok with the improved endings. The issue here is not that you want a conventionaly victory ending but you want an ending with no compremises...That was never what BW stated the game was about...
 

"lots of choices, none of them easy."

That is what they advertized.

Do you even know what the orignal planned ending was? It was way more harsh than the ending we got.

With the orignal dark energy plot, the reaper were try to story the end of the galexy because it was losing dark energy and organic were making it drain faster.
The reaper found that humanity was a way to solve this and had to reaper to save the galexy.
You origanal choices were to let them reaper all of humanity including you or destroy the reapers and doom the galexy....

Take the humans.  No question.  Next.

That's includes you too, I hope you know.

[robertthebard]

FOX216BC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SkullStrife wrote...

I totally agree with the OP!!!!!!!!!! Mass Effect was always about Union and Victory trought diversity!...

No it was not...

"Many disistion lie ahead...None of them easy."

"Many decisions lie ahead... in all of them i'll end up dead"

Did you miss the memo about this being the end of Shepard's tale?  They are already going through hell with the DA series and protagonists that aren't dead, but not part of the story, why repeat it here?

[ATiBotka]

FOX216BC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SkullStrife wrote...

I totally agree with the OP!!!!!!!!!! Mass Effect was always about Union and Victory trought diversity!...

No it was not...

"Many disistion lie ahead...None of them easy."

"Many decisions lie ahead... in all of them i'll end up dead"

Again: High EMS Destroy?

Modifié par ATiBotka, 30 août 2012 - 07:38 .

[Jadebaby]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

No - now go deal with it.

I don't know if you noticed this, but in this place I like to refer to as "the real world," people occasionally face dilemmas where they don't always get the desired outcome and have to accept it.

I opened the fridge this morning, and darn it all, I didn't have milk so my plan to have cereal was totally shot. Of course, said plan was also hampered by the lack of cereal. Maybe I should rage at God for not conveniently making milk or cereal available to me? Do you think that would work? I'm pretty sure it won't!

Fortunately, I was over my disappointment over not having cereal after a few seconds - instead of complaining about it for six months.

some people are just, wow....

robertthebard wrote...

You want to hear a funny? I'm not a pro-ender. I choose to die at the beam in London, so far 10 out of 12 playthroughs. I call it Ultimate Refusal, and if you look at my profile, under the picture, you'll see the same question I ask in my sig. Seriously, if you don't like them, there is nothing except a legend save, that demands you play them. I don't. So whether you chose Refusal to flip a bird to BioWare, or Destroy, or Synthesis doesn't matter to me. I find the whole fiasco funny, because there is a simple way out; Harbinger wins. However, and the reason my thread about getting a legend save got a few views, but no replies or support is because people want butterflies and rainbows, regardless of what they say here. It's easy to misrepresent the truth to say "no I dont', I just don't like SC and it's choices", but it's hard to just admit defeat. I might have had to call an ambulance if the credits had rolled after the flash of light in London. I would have been ecstatic with that ending.

Okay, however you cope with the endings, you're still in denial, in most cases that's worse than people complaining. At least they're facing the issue.

People didn't reply or support your thread because they want rainbows and bunnies, it's because they want an ending that makes sense and that sticks to the themes established already, yes squadmate and romance closure is a part of that, but it's not the whole picture.

[Conniving_Eagle]

"Many decisions lie ahead... none of them matter."

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Forget the practical considerations. The OP is loaded up to the brim with emotional blackmail, a most reprehensible tactic, the same low tactic used by those "Hold the Line" gamers who donated to Child's Play in order to get the developers to submit to their ridiculous demands.

That's unfair. From what I've seen that's his real emotional state.

His emotional state is not everyones.

Of course not. I'm sure he knows better. If he implied that all the fans feel his way, that's just rhetoric.

she's really impling us who feels the same way her

But your not the majority.

and were not the minority either, so don't even try using that

[Jadebaby]

ATiBotka wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SkullStrife wrote...

I totally agree with the OP!!!!!!!!!! Mass Effect was always about Union and Victory trought diversity!...

No it was not...

"Many disistion lie ahead...None of them easy."

"Many decisions lie ahead... in all of them i'll end up dead"

Again: High EMS Destroy?

Prove it's Shepard.

[AresKeith]

ATiBotka wrote...

Again: High EMS Destroy?

by retconning the Relays, no thank you

[wicked117]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SkullStrife wrote...

I totally agree with the OP!!!!!!!!!! Mass Effect was always about Union and Victory trought diversity!...

No it was not...

"Many disistion lie ahead...None of them easy."

"Many decisions lie ahead... in all of them i'll end up dead"

Again: High EMS Destroy?

Prove it's Shepard.

And  prove that wasn't their last breath.

[ATiBotka]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Prove it's Shepard.

If Shepard dies in High EMS Destroy, then what's the point of the breath scene?

[Dragoonlordz]

FOX216BC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You think you have to read every single word to get an idea of what someone wants? Or are you merely moaning that I did not reply with mere "I agree" response? There is no decent discussion to have when you have a thread full of just yes-men.

really, calling us yes-men because we feel the same way she does in her OP. I don't have a problem with people liking the ending they wanted, but some of us don't like seeing some the choices we made in the series get nulled or having no effect thing endings or final battle like Bioware stated.

but apparently your just like that group of pro-enders who just trash on us and assume things

You assumed I was posting my opinion just to troll and be confrontational... I explained that was not the case and that I merely wanted different things. If I recall there was like 160k+ or more choices to take into account in ME3, you were always going to have some not represented. You also got effects from choices in the ending, even if was not visceral enough for your liking. It is fine to not enjoy the ending, it does not mean they are required to change and alter things to make every single person happy with it.

I am very much against them spending and wasting yet more time and money after EC had such time and money spent on in order to make yet more ending DLC. I want them to spend their time and money making DLC for those who enjoy the game on content that does not relate to the ending anymore. Leviathan was good (enjoyable), Omega is what they should be working on hopefully next not more ending DLC and I am grateful they appear to agree.

If they did not agree with me, fair enough but in that situation I would want them to do nothing more than cinematic of fleets being destroyed, a conventional loss not win. However they do agree with me on this and thats just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. I did not get hardly anything I wanted in ME2, in ME3 I was lucky and did and grateful it appears to remain that way according to Bioware.

However they do agree with me?
Don't you mean that you agree with them?
Or are you just being narcissistic?

Nope, I wanted what I did prior to ME3 released, prior to information came out that the route they took was similar and had some of same ideas I had before the game was played. From no conventional victory, no harbinger boss fight or any pew pew match with an end boss were what I wanted before I even knew they went that way in the development and only some of the things I agree with after it came out of which examples are no more ending DLC.

[clennon8]

Oh, I just love it when people say "NO" to requests like the OP's, and then proceed to get on their high horse and bloviate about living in "the real world" and having to make "hard choices." I have a suspicion that those people are the ones with the least experience in "real life."

[inversevideo]

I think we need to wait for the next cycle/story-arc. This one is done.

A fundamental issue with Shepard's arc, is that Bioware changed the game, from ME1 to ME2, to appeal to a wider audience. They got their wider audience. Neither side is wrong, they are just different gamers, and differ in what attracted them to the ME series and the type of game they want to play.

I know there will be another story arc. There is too much money, in the ME IP, not to move forward. Bioware/EA will need to decide what audience they want to reach, and make their game accordingly. If anything, the 'audience widening' move should demonstrate that a single game cannot be all things to all people. Changing your demographic, mid-way through a series, is not an easy task.

What I hope though, is that Bioware/EA listens to what 3Dand Beyond has said, and consider her words, when crafting the next story-arc. And BW, if you truly want to follow in the steps of CoD, that is cool. Just let us know honestly, up-front, so we can make an informed purchasing decision.

Modifié par inversevideo, 30 août 2012 - 07:45 .

[Wrath of Bastila Shan]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Wrath of Bastila Shan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

People are asking you for reunion DLC and ME2 squadmates' DLC and more romance DLC.

Stopped reading when i read this.  I mean, yeah, there are alot of interesting, humorous, and badazz characters that we know and love, but come one.  I guess it's just me (or at least in the extreme minority) that feels wanting to have blue or quarian babies is a bit weird.  And to have DLC just for that..... *shrugs shoulders*...................

She was saying a lot of the fanbase wants it, not that s/he specifically wants it. You shouldn't handwave the rest of her post because of one little line..

All the pro-enders in here need to chill out...

Look, it's really hard to sense one's demeanor just from reading texts.  In no way am i angry at all.  And yes, i did read the rest of her/his OP.

But from reading many, many, MANY posts on here, I guess I am THE only one!  I mean, i would love more DLC that adds to the story, but why have a whole DLC based around the LI and having love scenes?  Maybe if this was an online MMO.  You know, don't get me wrong, I don't mind your Shep falling in love for a certain character, but, I don't know...... ...........

Modifié par Wrath of Bastila Shan, 30 août 2012 - 07:46 .

[robertthebard]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

You want to hear a funny? I'm not a pro-ender. I choose to die at the beam in London, so far 10 out of 12 playthroughs. I call it Ultimate Refusal, and if you look at my profile, under the picture, you'll see the same question I ask in my sig. Seriously, if you don't like them, there is nothing except a legend save, that demands you play them. I don't. So whether you chose Refusal to flip a bird to BioWare, or Destroy, or Synthesis doesn't matter to me. I find the whole fiasco funny, because there is a simple way out; Harbinger wins. However, and the reason my thread about getting a legend save got a few views, but no replies or support is because people want butterflies and rainbows, regardless of what they say here. It's easy to misrepresent the truth to say "no I dont', I just don't like SC and it's choices", but it's hard to just admit defeat. I might have had to call an ambulance if the credits had rolled after the flash of light in London. I would have been ecstatic with that ending.

Okay, however you cope with the endings, you're still in denial, in most cases that's worse than people complaining. At least they're facing the issue.

People didn't reply or support your thread because they want rainbows and bunnies, it's because they want an ending that makes sense and that sticks to the themes established already, yes squadmate and romance closure is a part of that, but it's not the whole picture.

It does, and provides perfect closure.  After all, the Reapers have been doing this for millions of years.  Their plan got jacked by the last cycle, but I played all three games.  Sometimes, something is said to be impossible because it is impossible.  I'm not the one in denial.  Denial would mean that I would think I could win despite the evidence that I have to the contrary.  I'm well adjusted enough mentally and emotionally to realize that this may indeed be the straw that broke the camel's back as far as just what Shepard could do.  Not that that's intended as a slight against some of the people here, it's just that in the grand scheme of things, there are things happening in my day to day life that are inifinitely more important than "I didn't get a reunion with my LI and shipmates after I died trying to do the impossible.

[Warrior Craess]

AlanC9 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...
Here is the counter point that many of us are trying to get you to understand. There isn't anything difficult, or hard about the ending choices of ME3.  There is no emotive context to it, becuase the rest of the theme of the ME series has been discarded. The options are nothing more than which one do I like best at this point. There is no morality to thses choices, because there is no history to it (at least in game).  The EC made the endings better, but still not thematically consistant with the rest of the ME series. 

Huh? You seem to be saying that whether a decision is hard depends on stuff outside the consequences of that decision. If that's you point, count me as another one who doesn't understand it.

it may be confusing becuase it's the tail end of a rather large reply pyramid. I simply removed most of the pyramid so that it wouldn't be so cumbersome.

Let me break it down for you. It's a game (hopefully we can all agree on that). In this game we have choices that can be made. As has been pointed out, it doesn't really matter what you choose, becuase in the end you can win the game. 

Dreman9999 is saying that the entire point of the game is to make those choices. He also says that those choices don't matter, becuase in the end you win the game. 

My point, is that those choices only matter based on the context we, the players, give them. This context is based on our interpretations of the game - something dreman9999 has discounted.  According to him there is a literal theme to this game. And that theme is Choice.  

The reason that many of us find the endings so abhorent is that the final choice, the one that should mean the most, actually means the least, becuase it is so disconnected from the rest of the series. The Final choice takes my interpretation of the series and smashes it to smithereens. Why would I then attach any emotional context at all to the final choice? 

The endings are subjective by design. Speculation for everyone = interpretation, not choice. Much of the reason I'm annoyed with BW over this is that they wanted specualtion (interpretation) then told us we're doing it wrong.  Sorry but how can my intrepretation of a subjective ending be wrong? Dreman999 annoys me for the same reason. In the ME series you can not invalidate a players interpretation, due to the fact that it's designed to achieve just that. 

[webhead921]

I can definitely understand OP's emotional attachment to the series. I love these characters more than any other video game characters, and more than the majority of movie characters I have experienced. However, it seems pretty clear that Bioware is set on keeping the ending the way it is. For better or for worse, they're done with Shepard's story. Maybe instead of romance or reunion DLC, we could get somewhat of an expansion, with a different player character, but with some of our squad mates returning.

[AresKeith]

Warrior Craess wrote...

it may be confusing becuase it's the tail end of a rather large reply pyramid. I simply removed most of the pyramid so that it wouldn't be so cumbersome.

Let me break it down for you. It's a game (hopefully we can all agree on that). In this game we have choices that can be made. As has been pointed out, it doesn't really matter what you choose, becuase in the end you can win the game. 

Dreman9999 is saying that the entire point of the game is to make those choices. He also says that those choices don't matter, becuase in the end you win the game. 

My point, is that those choices only matter based on the context we, the players, give them. This context is based on our interpretations of the game - something dreman9999 has discounted.  According to him there is a literal theme to this game. And that theme is Choice.  

The reason that many of us find the endings so abhorent is that the final choice, the one that should mean the most, actually means the least, becuase it is so disconnected from the rest of the series. The Final choice takes my interpretation of the series and smashes it to smithereens. Why would I then attach any emotional context at all to the final choice? 

The endings are subjective by design. Speculation for everyone = interpretation, not choice. Much of the reason I'm annoyed with BW over this is that they wanted specualtion (interpretation) then told us we're doing it wrong.  Sorry but how can my intrepretation of a subjective ending be wrong? Dreman999 annoys me for the same reason. In the ME series you can not invalidate a players interpretation, due to the fact that it's designed to achieve just that. 

this really

Modifié par AresKeith, 30 août 2012 - 07:51 .

[dreman9999]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SkullStrife wrote...

I totally agree with the OP!!!!!!!!!! Mass Effect was always about Union and Victory trought diversity!...

No it was not...

"Many disistion lie ahead...None of them easy."

"Many decisions lie ahead... in all of them i'll end up dead"

Again: High EMS Destroy?

Prove it's Shepard.

Who else would be it be?

[BadgerladDK]

OP, I actually disagree with almost everything you wrote, as I do consider the EC to be as close to a decent ending as the story will get without rewriting the whole premise of the story from Mars onwards, and I actually enjoy it now that it's a bit more than just three different colours of space magic. Reunion or romance DLC also wouldn't be high on my list of priorities (Omega, yes please, though), but you make a good case for why some want those.

Having said that, full marks to you for stating your case clearly, without whining and without spewing hate at anyone who might not agree with you. 10/10, would read again.

[AlanC9]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Umm you should re-read what he's saying. Those battles apply as he's stating them.

He was saying that these battles changed a losing cause into a winning one. These battles didn't do that.

Thermopylae is only a success if you buy the Decree of Themistocles. It's an outright failure according to Herodotus, though it did cause the Persians to lose a week or so of the campaign season. The decisive battle of the campaign was Salamis. Arguably, that battle does fit his thesis; I was saying that he had terrible examples, not that battles don't sometimes reverse the course of a war.

Hastinghs was decisive, but Harold wasn't obviously winning before that. And even if Harold might have won the battle, fighting immediately seems to have been a poor decision since he could get reinforcements more easily than William. Though conterfactuals like that are impossible to prove, of course.

And all Kursk did was reveal the truth about Germany's position. They were losing before and losing afterward.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is another attempt to imply all anyone wants is bunnies and rainbows with no consequences.  In fact, a better ending should be hard to get.  I've always said that.  I've even said that a truly sacrificial bittersweet should exist, but doesn't.  There are downsides that exist already.  The galaxy is a total mess as it should be for a war of this scale.  The fact that the current endings don't reflect that is part of the craziness of the endings.  Everything's so easily rebuilt, and the sun will come out tomorrow, with sappy cutscenes.  That is why part of my vision of things had to do with the rebuilding aftermath.  Anyone that thinks that people will just skip hand in hand together as they try to dig their way back to normalcy is deluded by the game's "epilogue".

You want downsides how about this:
Palaven burning
Thessia almost totally destroyed
Billions in this cycle made into goo or dead-how many Einsteins, Hawkings, Mother Theresas, and Sharon Osbournes were lost?
Trillions of those in past cycles gone forever
The Batarians decimated (ok, many don't like them, but we don't really know them)
Mordin dead
Thane dead
Legion dead

Samara lost another daughter and the refuge for the other is all but destroyed
Shepard died once
TIM, no matter what he became he was once a hero, dead
Anderson, dead
Earth in ruins-it likely took the brunt of it since humans were the target
Horizon destroyed
Eden Prime destroyed
Other outlying colonies-wiped out

The whole basis for the advancement and knowledge of people is in question-how much of it based on any real independent thought and how much on reaper tech?
The galaxy brought down to the equivalent of its infancy-people given self-determination and reliance, must learn on their own, find their own way.

And more.
Sacrifice has happened, already and is only done when it is for something-the greater good.  In capitulating with the foe the greater good does not exist so sacrificed is pointless suicide.  Why fight to keep an enemy from getting something that in the next minute you will just hand over freely?  And what I see is choices that are not gifts being given by Shepard dying or by killing others, they are chains being placed on the galaxy-chains they may never be rid of.

Thank you. The ending slides are like propaganda pictures.

Now I'll add things unique to the Destroy Ending:

Geth dead -- we see them no where
represented in the extended cut and these people would have been a huge
asset to helping rebuild.

All AIs and VIs based on reaper code including EDI because the wave can read reaper code. What I don't understand is why people don't make backups of software anymore, thus enabling them to restore AIs like EDI to their former state, but I didn't write this crap.

You know these are other things that people tend to gloss over. Hackett says "The Mass Relays are SEVERELY damaged. Did anyone really look at the Charon relay as the fleet passed it? Does it look as simple as assembling an Erector Set? No. How about the Citadel? Does that look as simple as assembling a set of Tinker Toys? No. You know does it look simple without such minor inconveniences like a manufacturing base, let alone understanding the technology of these things in the first place? No.

The "Artists' Conception" of the completed Citadel is at minimum a 400 hundred years in the future, people. The relay system won't get completely fixed for several thousand years. Why? First we have to figure out how the technology works. This is going to require the birth of an Einstein, Hawking, or several of them. We may have them, or they may have gotten mashed into goop. They have to have that "ah ha!" moment. Then it has to become practical. We have to fly by FTL to each of them, assess the damage, fly back and forth via FTL with parts to rebuild, and then remap them. Then move onto the next one.This is going to take a ****load of time. If we had the help of the Geth available it might, and I say might cut the time in half because they can work 24/7. 10,000 year "dark age" for destroy. The sacrifice was already made.
It's not like "oh, no problem, we'll just wave a magic wand and build it in the next 50 years. It's so simple. We'll just make these components and fly them up there, but wait. Where are we going to make the components.... hmmm. We've got to build factories first. Oh. Major inconvenience. How many people we have left on earth? 2 billion? 3 billion?

We have a major humanitarian crisis that has to be dealt with first before all the rebuilding gets to take place.

Major hubs of course get taken care of first (Earth, Palaven, Thessia, Rannoch, Illium, Sur'Kesh, Tuchanka, Arcturus). Probably 100 - 400 yrs for these, and they'll be direct routes. The rest of the galaxy? It will take thousands of years.

No problem for Control or Synthesis because the friendly reapers are helping. It's their tech. A few hundred years for the entire galaxy. You understand now?

All these are solved with Control and Synthesis endings because the reapers help out. So don't give us the horse hockey that this would unbalance the endings. The sacrifice has already been made.

We thought that the reapers could not be trusted, that no one could control them, and that we shouldn't impose a new galactic order on the galaxy, and thus we destroyed the reapers and their controller along with the Geth and EDI and were penalized by being left in a pile of garbage with a 10,000 yr "rebuilding age."

You sacrificed yourselves perhaps to save the Geth and EDI either to control the reapers or synthesize with them, and were rewarded with the help of the reapers in rebuilding the galaxy in short order.

Let us have our reunion. I even say leave the Geth out of the Destroy ending. 

[ATiBotka]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Prove it's Shepard.

If you play as femshep, she has boobs, if you play as maleshep, he doesn't.

[saber00005]

I'm Commander Shepard, and I approve of this.