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One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing


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#2801
Guest_alleyd_*

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Ozida wrote...

Snipped 

Just a fun note for this thread, so people don't think we all are nothing but "haters".

All the good things that ME3 brought to me:

Great moments - now, this one is serious one. Despite all the mess, seeing Grunt alive and seeing Mordin dead got me. This game still had strong moments that we cannot deny. I just wish there were more of them.


Posted Image


There were so many little fun elements that showed a real love for the setting. The smaller things that make me laugh out loud. the things like Blasto's advert, Liara's dad and the banter between crew members. Walking around the ship and bumping into the crew chewing the fat. Garrus banter with James and Joker. Emergency induction ports. Jack trolling EDI's body on Grissom.

My favourite though was James tech skills on Palaven moon. This game made me laugh out loud more times than any comedy of recent times and I just wish people could play the game again just for the Laugh out Loud factors and the attention to detail of these little scenes and then reconcile themselves to a feeling of ambivalence or acceptance.It is a far more positive state of mind.

I got me here<3 I will admit that it helped me get through my disconnect with the story, and I learned a bit of forgiveness because i felt the empathy of the team in these areas. Yes there is a serious issue of disconnect that has to be addressed. The ending controversy has overshadowed what is a quite enjoyable little game, and that to me is one of the saddest aspects 

#2802
Seival

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Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller. Posted Image


And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.

#2803
AresKeith

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Seival wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller. Posted Image


And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.


even thought this thread isn't saying to change the endings

#2804
Seival

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AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller. Posted Image


And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.


even thought this thread isn't saying to change the endings


Yea, the thread called "One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing", and full of whining about the endings clearly was created just for fun.

Ok. Have a fun then :)

#2805
3DandBeyond

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Ozida wrote...

Focus, ladies and gentlemen. It's ME3 fight, let's not get distracted here. ;)


Yes, the point is it's an appeal to BW to take another look at all this.  See that there is a demand-there always has been for this.  Within the whole original endings debacle the one ending or one thing where people most desired closure and clarity was for Shepard and whether s/he lives or dies.  This should say something quite wonderful about people though it's often seen in a negative light.  Consider what a lot of people are saying.

They want the reapers destroyed-they are an abhorrent amalgamation of organic material and thought energy used in a truly disgusting way.  They are not redeemable.
People want EDI and the geth to have a chance to live.
People want Shepard to have a chance to live.
People want a chance for a victory.

And somehow these are seen by some as bad things. 

#2806
3DandBeyond

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Seival wrote...

Yea, the thread called "One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing", and full of whining about the endings clearly was created just for fun.

Ok. Have a fun then :)


Again Seival, you keep repeating the same thing that shows you have yet to even read my OP.  I've asked you to do the decent thing and read my OP before commenting on it.  You refuse to do so.  Apparently you have an odd idea of fun.

#2807
Epique Phael767

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Focus, ladies and gentlemen. It's ME3 fight, let's not get distracted here. ;)


Yes, the point is it's an appeal to BW to take another look at all this.  See that there is a demand-there always has been for this.  Within the whole original endings debacle the one ending or one thing where people most desired closure and clarity was for Shepard and whether s/he lives or dies.  This should say something quite wonderful about people though it's often seen in a negative light.  Consider what a lot of people are saying.

They want the reapers destroyed-they are an abhorrent amalgamation of organic material and thought energy used in a truly disgusting way.  They are not redeemable.
People want EDI and the geth to have a chance to live.
People want Shepard to have a chance to live.
People want a chance for a victory.

And somehow these are seen by some as bad things. 

In short we wanted to retake Earth and our galaxy, which we didn't really feel like we did. (pre-EC anyway. I for one still feel like I did part of the reapers' job for them.)

#2808
Biggboss0021

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so tired of u babies cryin about the ending......stfu and get a new game if u dont like it... so many nerds cryin about this ending go get a life or a girlfriend NERDS.. and no ashley jack miranda etc. dont count as real life girlfriends.... i love the games and the ending is fine cant wait for more dlc for this story..

#2809
Epique Phael767

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Biggboss0021 wrote...

so tired of u babies cryin about the ending......stfu and get a new game if u dont like it... so many nerds cryin about this ending go get a life or a girlfriend NERDS.. and no ashley jack miranda etc. dont count as real life girlfriends.... i love the games and the ending is fine cant wait for more dlc for this story..

Unintelligent. Troll. Whining about whining.

#2810
AresKeith

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Biggboss0021 wrote...

so tired of u babies cryin about the ending......stfu and get a new game if u dont like it... so many nerds cryin about this ending go get a life or a girlfriend NERDS.. and no ashley jack miranda etc. dont count as real life girlfriends.... i love the games and the ending is fine cant wait for more dlc for this story..


why are you talking about yourself?

#2811
Hudathan

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3DandBeyond wrote...

They want the reapers destroyed-they are an abhorrent amalgamation of organic material and thought energy used in a truly disgusting way.  They are not redeemable.
People want EDI and the geth to have a chance to live.
People want Shepard to have a chance to live.
People want a chance for a victory.

All of those are in the game.

#2812
3DandBeyond

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Hudathan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

They want the reapers destroyed-they are an abhorrent amalgamation of organic material and thought energy used in a truly disgusting way.  They are not redeemable.
People want EDI and the geth to have a chance to live.
People want Shepard to have a chance to live.
People want a chance for a victory.

All of those are in the game.


And are subservient to horrible choices that do not lead to a true victory nor the feeling of victory. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 septembre 2012 - 12:49 .


#2813
Lunch Box1912

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Please watch logic flow chart Comic Con Bioware www.youtube.com/watch
And please read, very informative Wiki open ended en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-ended_(gameplay)

So I was poking around the web a bit and reading up on some things and between skimming wiki and watching Bioware videos this came to my attention… (I know awesome Friday night...)

Can you call Mass Effect an open ended RPG? Just based off the logic map I would say no as everything seemed to end into one sequence. Then I began to search the Bioware websites to see if Bioware ever even called it an open ended RPG. They called it a (Sci-fi role playing game...ME1 and an Interactive Storytelling Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome…ME3) ok so the ME3 summary may be a bit misleading? but they never stated open ended RPG. My choices and decisions absolutely affected my game play as different characters lived or died or if I completed a mission or ignored it all together did matter in terms of my game play experience. So I would categorize Mass Effect as a linear nonlinear hybrid RPG. I would also say that even though the endings are ‘’different” they still follow the same flow to one final sequence even if the sequence has its own variables, so I would say no the game does not have multiple endings. 

With that said would anyone on this thread be able to help show a logic scenario that would help to make several different endings possible that would fit in with Biowares current flow chart? Then maybe Bioware would consider bringing the game back to a true RPG through DLC? Does anyone think this would help? Bring a little hope for One Last Plea – to do the right thing?
 
Note: I just want to say I’m no game developer, I don’t know the first thing about it. Just thought if anyone reading this besides Bioware who knew how to go about such a thing? Kind of like a Mass Effect  GNU project for the saving of the Mass Effect Series.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 08 septembre 2012 - 01:39 .


#2814
robertthebard

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

They want the reapers destroyed-they are an abhorrent amalgamation of organic material and thought energy used in a truly disgusting way.  They are not redeemable.
People want EDI and the geth to have a chance to live.
People want Shepard to have a chance to live.
People want a chance for a victory.

All of those are in the game.


And are subservient to horrible choices that do not lead to a true victory nor the feeling of victory. 

I'm still not buying that.  In both my saves that finished the game, one with too low EMS to get the Breath Scene, and one with it, I felt plenty victorious over the Reapers.  I had an awful taste in my mouth from swallowing yet another DeM to get there, but the ending itself was fairly victorious.  Asari were jumping up and down from joy at watching them die, Krogan might have been happy, it's hard to tell with those guys, they never look happy, and the Turians looked pretty happy too.  Can't say about the Quarians, though, masks are in the way.  In one, the Geth were already dead when I shot the tube, and in the other, I had to apply the brutal calculus of war, and know that destroyiing the Geth and EDI was sad, but necessary to ensure that the galaxy had a chance to continue to develop and grow from what it was before we discovered the Reapers.

I didn't get all ADHD about the Moustache Twirling from either TIM or the Catalyst, I couldn't get through either dialog fast enough.  Doesn't change that I'm not happy with the way the entire episode is handled, but I didn't come away bitter about "serving the Reapers" when I killed them.

#2815
D24O

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How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.

#2816
robertthebard

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D24O wrote...

How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.

Dinosaur DLC got a nod in Leviathan.Posted Image

#2817
fainmaca

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I look at those logic charts, and from a writing standpoint I can't help but feel that they look quite... simple. No wait, that's not really the word... streamlined. They all head towards a very small range of points. In the end, you still get one of three endings chosen at the end, with your only consequences being small variations shown through cutscenes. It all still has the same grey flavour to it.

I'm unsure how I would work within the current framework, but I am currently writing my own idea of what ME3 was going to be (for almost 2 years now). In that story, I present choices to my readers. What I have done is plan out six possible endings which are based upon five of the choices, with four possible outcomes.

To clarify, in my story an Ending: a single endgame scenario. There are six places where the endgame can take place, each one with a different way of carrying out the mission (destroy the Reapers. They're irredeemable in my story).
As for the outcomes, they are the levels of success a certain Shepard can achieve, dependent on my own War Asset system. The outcomes roll as follows: 1- Shepard and crew lives, acceptable losses. 2- Shepard dies, Normandy and crew survives, minimal losses. 3- Shepard and Normandy lost, heavy losses. 4- Reaper victory.

Combining the choices to determine the ultimate ending the readers will get gives me a total of possibly 24 different endings.

What's more, as the system cycles through the ending locations, they each get progressively worse, needing more assets to achieve victory. For example, the worst ending location needs 95% or more of the total assets to get Shepard out alive, while the best location allows Shepard to survive at 75% or more.

In all, I've found it a very simple framework to operate within while maintaining the possibility of hundreds of different combinations.

Not really helpful to the One Plea ideal, but if Bioware every try a choice-based series again, its worth bearing in mind. They seemed to shy away from making a truly varied storyline, when they needed to embrace it. Illusion of choice throughout the narrative to keep things manageable is one thing, but the ultimate outcome of the game needs to have more variation.

#2818
3DandBeyond

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Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Please watch logic flow chart Comic Con Bioware www.youtube.com/watch
And please read, very informative Wiki open ended en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-ended_(gameplay)

So I was poking around the web a bit and reading up on some things and between skimming wiki and watching Bioware videos this came to my attention… (I know awesome Friday night...)

Can you call Mass Effect an open ended RPG? Just based off the logic map I would say no as everything seemed to end into one sequence. Then I began to search the Bioware websites to see if Bioware ever even called it an open ended RPG. They called it a (Sci-fi role playing game...ME1 and an Interactive Storytelling Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome…ME3) ok so the ME3 summary may be a bit misleading? but they never stated open ended RPG. My choices and decisions absolutely affected my game play as different characters lived or died or if I completed a mission or ignored it all together did matter in terms of my game play experience. So I would categorize Mass Effect as a linear nonlinear hybrid RPG. I would also say that even though the endings are ‘’different” they still follow the same flow to one final sequence even if the sequence has its own variables, so I would say no the game does not have multiple endings. 

With that said would anyone on this thread be able to help show a logic scenario that would help to make several different endings possible that would fit in with Biowares current flow chart? Then maybe Bioware would consider bringing the game back to a true RPG through DLC? Does anyone think this would help? Bring a little hope for One Last Plea – to do the right thing?
 
Note: I just want to say I’m no game developer, I don’t know the first thing about it. Just thought if anyone reading this besides Bioware who knew how to go about such a thing? Kind of like a Mass Effect  GNU project for the saving of the Mass Effect Series.


I'm no developer either but I think there were ways it could have been done to lead to various endings that happened as natural outcomes.  If the slide shows evolved from your past choices that's the key.  Cured the genophage you get a slide about that-so curing the genophage could have had an effect that impacted the ending, rather than creating a slide.

What you have is it seems that for the end there are very few decisions that are taken into account.  Paragon/renegade, your LI, and those that impact the slides and the biggest thing is EMS, but even that is limited.  So, once you hit a certain EMS range, that's not at all important.  The rest that matters is paragon and renegade and the things shown in slides.  You get a lot of Krogan slides.  And for each choice there are a limited number of different slides.

I can't say specifically how difficult all this was at all, but I'd have preferred fewer slides and actually have those choices that led to the slides be taken into account in getting an ending.

The other problem here is that they don't really assign their own idea of what is a negative value to a decision.  Consider that most every decision gets you just about the same net asset value-give or take a few points that are mostly meaningless.  So cure the genophage or don't cure it and you will likely get enough assets.  You are not significantly penalized for any decision you make.  I think that's the real culprit in including choices at the end as well as EMS.  What choices you get are based on minimum EMS.  What type of choice is based on paragon and renegade.  What slides you get and LI looking or not looking at your name are all based on some choices you made.  The slides, LI, or no LI, and paragon or renegade outcomes are the only real tangible things that change based upon what you did in the game.  EMS is there and determines how much you completed of the optional stuff in the game (and you don't have to complete too much if you play MP).

#2819
Conniving_Eagle

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Weird of me to link a "vulgar rap song", but it's a pretty good way to describe this debacle. The endings, the Catalyst, Bioware's attitude, Mass Effect, and so on.

www.youtube.com/watch

I just killed this thread, didn't I?

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 08 septembre 2012 - 02:58 .


#2820
3DandBeyond

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D24O wrote...

How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.


Hmm, perhaps it's an old dead relic vs. a live dead relic.  You decide which is which-(hint: I'm one of them).

I fully support any and all DLC after I get my way (I'm appealing to all those that say I'm selfish). I want what I want and I want it now.  Or, at least at some point before I am in the Dinosaur DLC.

Hey, new idea.  How about a contest on the BSN, Bioware.  Best fan ever gets a walk on role in your DLC.  Hint: I'm sure I wouldn't be in the running but I'd make a great Dinosaur.

Seriously now--I really was joking though not so funny, I think many who have posted here would have a lot more expressed interest for all DLC if they liked the endings or felt really satisfied with them.  I do support most DLC but I just don't have any enthusiasm for it as things stand.

#2821
Conniving_Eagle

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D24O wrote...

How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.


There is a new DLC coming soon. It will have Owls and Eagles.

#2822
HiddenInWar

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

D24O wrote...

How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.


There is a new DLC coming soon. It will have Owls and Eagles.


I think we're all forgetting the DLC that we really need: Finding miranda as she rides a T-Rex cradling corgi puppies. 

And in all seriousness, I believe that Corgis would make a good reunion present.

Modifié par HiddenInWar, 08 septembre 2012 - 03:04 .


#2823
Wayning_Star

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3DandBeyond wrote...

D24O wrote...

How does this have 113 pages and Dinosaur DLC only has like 25? I call hax.


Hmm, perhaps it's an old dead relic vs. a live dead relic.  You decide which is which-(hint: I'm one of them).

I fully support any and all DLC after I get my way (I'm appealing to all those that say I'm selfish). I want what I want and I want it now.  Or, at least at some point before I am in the Dinosaur DLC.

Hey, new idea.  How about a contest on the BSN, Bioware.  Best fan ever gets a walk on role in your DLC.  Hint: I'm sure I wouldn't be in the running but I'd make a great Dinosaur.

Seriously now--I really was joking though not so funny, I think many who have posted here would have a lot more expressed interest for all DLC if they liked the endings or felt really satisfied with them.  I do support most DLC but I just don't have any enthusiasm for it as things stand.


hey 3d, seen http://social.biowar.../index/14023416 yet... pretty good extra game book advertizment..

The choices will never be changed/modified, the walk away choice was for detractors of the the three unsolicited pre EC versions... If you don't "Like" the choices..then just...well...

#2824
Iakus

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3DandBeyond wrote...

I fully support any and all DLC after I get my way (I'm appealing to all those that say I'm selfish). I want what I want and I want it now.  Or, at least at some point before I am in the Dinosaur DLC.


Indeed.

Put in a DLC that actually gives proper closure with a live Shepard, I will support and buy any storyline DLC.

Modifié par iakus, 08 septembre 2012 - 03:11 .


#2825
fainmaca

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3DandBeyond wrote...
The other problem here is that they don't really assign their own idea of what is a negative value to a decision.  Consider that most every decision gets you just about the same net asset value-give or take a few points that are mostly meaningless.  So cure the genophage or don't cure it and you will likely get enough assets.  You are not significantly penalized for any decision you make.


This, i think, is a significant point. I hesitated so much over some choices. i'd have liked to have seen them have the potential to bite me in the ass.

Honestly, I was ready to find out that the Rachni had betrayed me, that the Heretic Geth had started acting up again, stuff like that. As is, we kind of get the same number either way, with the only way to increase/decrease being how fully we play the game.