6432 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Great post Benchpress610. The disconnect I felt and that others felt was the problem. I hate to admit it but I looked at my potential imports from ME1 to ME2 and there were like 11. From ME2 to 3, 12. Then ME3 I have 3 and no more. One because it was the first and I felt like crap. The second because I must have missed something and I was in denial that BW actually made such a ****ty ending to the series. No. They really did. Then the third one was the EC playthrough because I wanted to see if they did anything else with the EC because sometimes companies change things they don't tell you about.

Well the EC was the same crappy endings with sprinkles. And here I'd trusted BioWare writers with my heart in this series. Never again. Hell hath no fury and all that stuff.

they even used Deception Kai Leng for his video game debut instead of Retribution Leng or a Bane clone

[Lunch Box1912]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Well, I can't say how many different outcomes because I have not played the low EMS ones and I have the DLC for ME2 and so on.  See, the thing is you get different slides if you never played ME2 and never got the DLC for it.  Those count as outcomes, I'd guess. 

The Slides are used for the most variations as far as I can tell.  The LI seen at the end is limited to  those on the Normandy so I think Liara stands in if your LI is not there.  Those seem to be the variety.

EMS determines how many choices you get and a certain level of devastation.  Low EMS gets teammates killed by Harbinger (apparently) and has other bad effects at the end.  Higher EMS has better effects, supposedly.  I have not done a renegade runthrough, have seen it a coiuple times on youtube so I can't confirm all that happens but things are somewhat different-narration mostly.  I don't know how much it actually affects the programming of it, but it seems somewhat limited except for slides.

I didn't realize the slides where different if you didn't play ME2 (played both one and two..8600 EMS or something in that park) I got the final breath on my first run-through which I miss a ton of stuff usually because I just want to get to the end. Running through it the second time is where I got disappointed, much like the youtube video I too even sent Chakwas packing for Dr. Michel for the ten extra EMS. Still same ending. Kind of like when you haven’t gone shopping in a while you keep checking the fridge and no matter how many times you look there’s still nothing in there.

[Zan51]

Benchpress610 - excellent post indeed!

I am all warm and fuzzy at the level of intelligent discussion and posting here, with one or two exceptions, of course.  I honestly believe BW completely underestimated the intelligence of many, in fact a great many, of its customers - us! I think they started out like they did for ME1 but have progressively dumbed it down to appeal to a wider audience, and to suddenly tag on the MP component. I remember it being suggested by them but there wasn't a whole hearted interest in it. Many said only if it didn't take away from the SP would they be interested, and then all of a sudden, the focus was on that, not the SP. Perhaps they needed to simplify the SP game to make the MP fit in somehow?

Whatever, we are not the playing customers who are content with an Aiens v Predator or Doom clone FPS, WE are different in that we became emotionally invested, yes, invested, in our Shepard character, and in all the crew mates we loved too - Kaidan, Ash, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, Garras, Legion... the list goes on and on. I would have loved the janitor ****** cook from ME2 back for one! He was such a character!

The ending as is will probably appeal to the casual player who when they come in at game 3, can play it and shrug off the endings and move on. Maybe this is why we get folk visiting here and posting this - they can move on because the character of Shepard, the rest of her crew and her mission did not touch that inner part of their imagination, their psyche, or soul, the way it did us. They were not invested, it was a game, nothing more. For us it is more like we are holding an unravelling sweater that we are trying hard to stop unravelling and even try to fix it.  Or, the first analogy that sprang to my mind, a still-born puppy we are trying to breathe life into and rub some warmth into it!

We look at all the wonderful segments in the game, already mentioned many times - Liara and her Dad chats, Garrus and James' competition on the Normandy, a drunk Tali, to name a very few, and we look at the data mined information of how some segments could have played out, and we see the lost potential.

When you try to broaden the appeal of a franchise of games, or TV shows at the expense of the faithful fans, you will fail because what attracted the faithful never did attract the others. Therefore you have to drop some of what made it successful in the first place to try and woo those who never were interested. Is it any wonder that we are unsatisfied? We loved the intellectual side of the game, the personalities, the relationships, the RPG element, the needing to think about things, not just shoot and roll for cover. Instead we got something else, sadly.

Modifié par Zan51, 08 septembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Calamity]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

kil_edward93 wrote...

I honestly can't even play an ME games SP mode knowing it's all not going to mean anything in the end.

Unfortunately that's what all too many people feel and this is for a series of games many feel are the best they've played-games they always hoped to play.

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

Seival - You should feel special because I have not responded in this thread to people who like to rain on this threads parade. Anyway - I dont mind the ending since the EC. That does not mean that I wouldnt like the option of other endings. There is no canon ending so why not more options? ME has always been about different options and different choices. To me, Im not ready to give up my Shep yet so I say MOAR shep is a good thing. Really, that is what OP is asking for, not a change to others "canon" ending but more options.

Feel the love Seival <3

[Redbelle]

Calamity wrote...

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

kil_edward93 wrote...

I honestly can't even play an ME games SP mode knowing it's all not going to mean anything in the end.

Unfortunately that's what all too many people feel and this is for a series of games many feel are the best they've played-games they always hoped to play.

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

Seival - You should feel special because I have not responded in this thread to people who like to rain on this threads parade. Anyway - I dont mind the ending since the EC. That does not mean that I wouldnt like the option of other endings. There is no canon ending so why not more options? ME has always been about different options and different choices. To me, Im not ready to give up my Shep yet so I say MOAR shep is a good thing. Really, that is what OP is asking for, not a change to others "canon" ending but more options.

Feel the love Seival <3

We're forgetting that BW have already changed the ending......... but what do we mean by change?

If you mean a full retcon. Scrap all aspects and start over then no, I don't see it changing.

But if you mean expand the available endings to allow new content and new sections in a branching pathway development build that BW is famous for, then yes I see that it is possible to do this.

BW have already made alterations to the ending twice with the ECDLC and Leviathan. One was a average treatment the other was a minor add for dialogue. BW themselves have set the precedent. And not only for ME but also for the gaming industry........ no wait. Fallout 3 set that precedent awhile back when the fan's logic of  'why sacrifice yourself in a radiation room when the radiation immune mutant can go in instead'?

The writers of Fallout 3 didn't like that logic though. In the epilogue they refer to the mutant as the real hero........ umm,.... lets see..... heroic dumb death or intelligent problem solving everyone lives within the confines of the games logic non hero........

Look. Writing a story is hard at the best of times. Writers can often write themselves in to a corner so I understand it can be difficult to make up these stories. But alot of gamers stopped being children who take what's given to them. Gamers now have a subsection who have grown up with video games for the past 20 years. We have gone beyond 'Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers' platform fun on the NES, and want stories and inteaction that well developed.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[BD Manchild]

Just giving this a quick bump as it doesn't deserve to slide into obscurity.

I harbour a strong suspicion that Bioware don't understand the appeal of their own franchise. It was never the combat, the RPG mechanics or even the story; it was in the way Bioware set up this universe and how they let us interact with the characters in it. Sure, their personalities are on the side of cliché and the dialogue's a little clunky, but few games let us interact with virtual people in the way this series did. As simplistic as they seemed they soon became real people because of our shared time with them, and how they reacted to our words and actions. That was the series' great triumph, not it's combat and not its plot.

The ending was just one textbook example of how Bioware apparently fail to understand that central appeal. In fact, the fiasco of the ending has led to them trying to justify it through pre-ending DLC, which only makes people wonder why material such as Leviathan wasn't included as part of the main game in the first place. All it does is confirm suspicions that Bioware and the series will never be able to escape the shadow of the ending, especially when you realise how pointless extra content is in the grand scheme of things (unless Bioware have some kind of surprise planned for completionists who buy and complete all the DLC, but that's probably giving them too much credit). I'm sure there are many who would like to change the subject (God knows I certainly would), but it seems that Bioware themselves are now dwelling on it.

Another example of how badly Bioware misunderstand the appeal of their series is through the consistently sub-par DLC. Lair of the Shadow Broker remains the only notable one because greater emphasis was placed on the character interaction. While Leviathan was a better effort than most it still fell short because it was still too combat-focused and felt like an unspoken apology for the ending, and even then the revelation of Leviathan wasn't anything that we couldn't have figured out ourselves from the Extended Cut.

It's sad to think that at the same time Leviathan was released, Telltale Games released the third episode of The Walking Dead, which for half the price had 10 times more emotion, drama and character development. Part of me just wants Bioware to leave well enough alone and move on to something else, learn something from this entire debacle. However, the ME fanboy inside me knows it will never be satisfied until all the DLC is released, the game is complete and I can get the whole sodding franchise out of my system once and for all.

[ghost9191]

be nice if maybe depending on how you resolved the conflict between the geth and quarians it will affect destroy. like if you managed to get the geth and quarians on your side maybe they will have a greater understanding of the crucible, allowing them to figure out a way for it to only target reapers. But would require you to achieve peace between the 2 groups

Was just thinking,, it would at least make that choice matter more, and influence the ending out come.But just wondering how to make the endings better. The geth sacrifice just seems so forced to me , or just added to have a sacrifice with destroy.

I would just think they could find out a little about the crucible while building it. rather thne just building it and not knowing what it will do, at least with both the geth and quarians working on it

Modifié par ghost9191, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:23 .

[Xellith]

BD Manchild wrote...

Just giving this a quick bump as it doesn't deserve to slide into obscurity.

How dare you bump this thread!

[NorDee65]

Seival wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller.

And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.

But that is exactly what has already happened: You seem to belong to the group who is happy with the current endings, whereas I (and the "few" people who want a different ending -however small the difference) belong to another group. You seem to be pleased, we are disappointed.

Modifié par NorDee65, 08 septembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[Benchpress610]

NorDee65 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller.

And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.

But that is exactly what has already happened: You seem to belong to the group who is happy with the current endings, whereas I (and the "few" people who want a different ending -however small the difference) belong to another group. You seem to be pleased, we are disappointed.

I wonder what would’ve happened if BW would’ve decided to end the trilogy with and epic and massive battle where your war assets really mattered, where you could see the armies and fleets you’d assembled in action and you could determine the role each one of them would play in the battle, and based on that, have different outcomes, not mere numbers on the screen. An ending where you could actually see how the decisions made along the way affected your ability or inability to succeed. What would’ve happened if there never was a Catalyst with its horse crap logic, and the crucible would’ve played a different role?
 
If this would’ve been the case, I wonder if the people who now adore the ending would’ve been upset about “the ending” I just pictured. I’ve got the suspicion that the great majority of them would’ve adored it as well, and we wouldn’t have these arguments. But we’ll never now.
 
As for numbers, those pro-enders who claim to be in the majority, unless you come up with real figures backed up by independent sources, your protestations of majority, large or vast numbers are relevant as a hole in the wall. So tuck you tail between your legs, run back to you momma and come back when you have real evidence.  

[Ozida]

Excellent post, BD Manchild. I think your point is even proven by this Mike Gamble's quote:

The dev team stands by what was released in the core product, and we’re very proud of it. It was important though for us to listen to the community, and a lot of that feedback didn’t come until the game came out. Once we were listening we decided to include the extended cut. It wasn’t in the game because we didn’t know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you.

I mean, they didn't think it was that important!.. What else is there to say? /*facepalm*

Modifié par Ozida, 08 septembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[3DandBeyond]

There are some truly great posts here and I'd prefer to let them stand on their own merits.  There is so much heart here that it's amazing.  It is what speaks best about where the strengths of ME are, not in the idea that it's good vs. evil, or that the reapers had to be these big understood and misunderstood nightmares with an attitiude.  It was always with the people.  Any ending that ignored that was bound to feel off to those that recognized it.

I am at once sad and frustrated when people compare this to real life and want it to be that; the cold calculus of war, a heroic death, a bittersweet sacrifice.  Those things sound so awesome in words, but have little recognition in these endings and bear little resemblance to the realities of war and the life well lived that is so suddenly ended by its brutal grasp.

I have some stories-I have more than what I'll talk about here but will try to make this as brief as possible.  The main point I want to reiterate here is that death is not beautiful, artistic, nor is it some wonderful way to end a game.  It is rather a sad and complicated fact of life.  Those that give theirs in sacrifice to others and an altruistic cause, do so not because they want to be remembered as a hero, nor to be seen in any particular light; they do so because to do anything else would be to let some form of evil win.  They may do it to save their squad or someone else, because as they see it those lives they can save have meaning.  That is heroic sacrifice.  What you do and what you give for others.

My mother, during WWII served in the Canadian Women's Army Corps (jokingly called the CWACs).  She'd spend off time talking to the wounded in an army hospital-men who'd lost and left pieces of themselves in some other country.  Some died.  I sincerely doubt they thought their deaths were artistic-I know she didn't. 

My brother's family lives down the street from another family whose son gave all for my country and for me in a war I saw as folly and false.  My nephews went to school with him and he was a fine young man, dead at the age of 20.  I remember him dressed up for halloween and I remember the crowd that embraced his family, a family that I know does as I have done for those I've lost.  A family that sees and searches for his face in a crowd.

I worked with 2 brothers and one (the younger one) went off to fight in Iraq.  He came home after having been shot several times in service to his country and me.  He survived but will never be the same.

I recently became aware of another kind of sacrifice-I've known about the real illness for a long time of course since I have always been well aware that for many the war stays with them forever once they leave the battlefield.  I read "Johnny Got His Gun" when I was quite young and know that while that deals with the effects of things like Mustard Gas (used a lot in WWI), other effects are mental and emotional.  One is PTSD.  I know of a man who does his best to help bring our troops home in body and in spirit and I know that he doesn't always succeed and sometimes these troops can never come back and decide they can no longer take it.  One young man he tired to help recently decided he could no longer take it and his death was anything but artistic and satisfying.

I have often felt we bear a real responsibility when we ask others to die for us, but I also think we bear it just as much when we ask them to kill for us.  We need so very much to make sure these things we ask them to do are for better things and not for something just as wrong as what we fight against.

I mean in no way to trivialize these harsh realities of war; in fact, it's why these things in a game so do not work for me.  I'm told I need to understand real life and yet, it is just because I do understand it that I see these things as wrong.  I see them as trivializing what we ask others to do for us-whether it be to destroy their minds, their bodies, and their hearts and souls and spirits or whether we ask them to do the same to others.  I don't think these endings are artistic and beautiful and speak about the realities of war at all.  Because I would never ask anyone to do those things for me, nor would I consider the price paid to be worth the outcome.  Not life at any cost, but real life and the real good for a chosen cost.

I wanted to write this in part because I want people to stop telling others that this is like what happens in real life and it should and does reflect that.  Neither is true.  It is like some warped idea of a fantasy version of real life and it reflects that.

I have plenty of reminders of the real cost of war.  Not a part of this game and not something I want to relive in a game.  The characters and not death is what should be what we long remember in either case-real life and the game.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 septembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[NorDee65]

Zan51 wrote...

Benchpress610 - excellent post indeed!

I am all warm and fuzzy at the level of intelligent discussion and posting here, with one or two exceptions, of course.  I honestly believe BW completely underestimated the intelligence of many, in fact a great many, of its customers - us! I think they started out like they did for ME1 but have progressively dumbed it down to appeal to a wider audience, and to suddenly tag on the MP component. I remember it being suggested by them but there wasn't a whole hearted interest in it. Many said only if it didn't take away from the SP would they be interested, and then all of a sudden, the focus was on that, not the SP. Perhaps they needed to simplify the SP game to make the MP fit in somehow?

Whatever, we are not the playing customers who are content with an Aiens v Predator or Doom clone FPS, WE are different in that we became emotionally invested, yes, invested, in our Shepard character, and in all the crew mates we loved too - Kaidan, Ash, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, Garras, Legion... the list goes on and on. I would have loved the janitor ****** cook from ME2 back for one! He was such a character!

The ending as is will probably appeal to the casual player who when they come in at game 3, can play it and shrug off the endings and move on. Maybe this is why we get folk visiting here and posting this - they can move on because the character of Shepard, the rest of her crew and her mission did not touch that inner part of their imagination, their psyche, or soul, the way it did us. They were not invested, it was a game, nothing more. For us it is more like we are holding an unravelling sweater that we are trying hard to stop unravelling and even try to fix it.  Or, the first analogy that sprang to my mind, a still-born puppy we are trying to breathe life into and rub some warmth into it!

We look at all the wonderful segments in the game, already mentioned many times - Liara and her Dad chats, Garrus and James' competition on the Normandy, a drunk Tali, to name a very few, and we look at the data mined information of how some segments could have played out, and we see the lost potential.

When you try to broaden the appeal of a franchise of games, or TV shows at the expense of the faithful fans, you will fail because what attracted the faithful never did attract the others. Therefore you have to drop some of what made it successful in the first place to try and woo those who never were interested. Is it any wonder that we are unsatisfied? We loved the intellectual side of the game, the personalities, the relationships, the RPG element, the needing to think about things, not just shoot and roll for cover. Instead we got something else, sadly.

this^
I liken ME3 to a Krogan with a duck's head . And I'd be chuckling at that image if it weren't so sad...

Up until the moment EA assimilated Bioware, Bioware had a successful niche existence as RPG- developers. Now as a division of EA they apparently have to cater to a broader audience, with the ironic result that they take the RPG out of the game whereas other developers put RPG-elements into their games. The recent MMOs GW2 and The Hidden World are put into that category. In the end Bioware will loose, because if they keep developing games that are middle of the road, then these could be developed by any other company as well, so who needs Bioware.

So I really, really hope someone at Bioware notices this thread and maybe they will react to it. As 3d has stated: small changes which will bring those that are decidedly unhappy with the current ending, closure, as (paid-for) DLC, which leaves it up to the gamers to decide whether they will buy or not.

Thanks to 3d for this thread.

[3DandBeyond]

I firmly believe that the ending might have written itself if it had followed to a logical conclusion. As Benchpress and Zan and BDmanchild said it so well, I believe that had the game been what it promised us it would be the complaints would have been minimal. Sometimes formulaic things do work and the reason they exist (the rules and the formula endings) is because they do. I don't generally like to watch movies where heroes don't win some real credible victory. If I do go and see one like that, I don't ever watch them again. A lot of people are like that, I suspect. And the same holds true for video games.

[robertthebard]

NorDee65 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Seival wrote...

The harbinger of your humility keeps an eye on this thread, and reminds that you can't even imagine how many people like the endings as they are.

The harbinger of justice reminds you that despite of how many people liked the endings, that doesn't make number of people who disliked them any smaller.

And the harbinger of your humility reminds you that what you've said is one of the main reasons BioWare will never change the endings. They will never risk pleasing one side by disappointing the other.

But that is exactly what has already happened: You seem to belong to the group who is happy with the current endings, whereas I (and the "few" people who want a different ending -however small the difference) belong to another group. You seem to be pleased, we are disappointed.

No, this is not what has already happened.  In order for your assessment to be accurate, BW would have had to rewritten how the endings play out, since this is part of what is asked for here.  Let's look at part of it:

We want a Destroy ending that, with high enough EMS, the Geth and EDI don't have to die, and Shepard is seen flying off into the sunset on the Normandy.  This is, despite claims to the contrary, a complete rewrite of the Destroy ending.  They can't just add this or that to make it work without rewriting it.  Cool with me, not the issue here.  The issue here is you claiming that they have already rewritten the ending to satisfy somebody else.  That's not what happened.  They provided the EC for everybody, not everybody liked it.  This is different than writing the EC for people that were already happy with the endings.  They wrote it and released it for those that weren't and it didn't work for some, did for others.  This is an unintended consequence, not setting out to please a select group.  Is this semantics?  Possibly, however, context is important, and the context you're providing is inaccurate.

Now, how are they going to provide such an ending?  Well, they are either going to have to change EMS in the SP campaign, release a ton of what would now be required DLC, or, require MP promotions to get it.  For some here, that's not an issue.  For me, it is.  I don't play much MP, because I'm not very good at it and unlike in the SP game where when I mess up bad, I can reload, I'm dragging three other people down with me.  Not cool.  When I wasn't very good at a specific class in the MMO's I've played, I didn't join groups to bring everyone else down.  I carry that over into MP, no sense in ruining everyone else's fun because they have to carry me, whether that's my intent or not.  So, I'd be cut out, if I cared about it all, due to never being able to get high enough EMS.  How is this not writing it for a specific group of people?

[3DandBeyond]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Well, I can't say how many different outcomes because I have not played the low EMS ones and I have the DLC for ME2 and so on.  See, the thing is you get different slides if you never played ME2 and never got the DLC for it.  Those count as outcomes, I'd guess. 

The Slides are used for the most variations as far as I can tell.  The LI seen at the end is limited to  those on the Normandy so I think Liara stands in if your LI is not there.  Those seem to be the variety.

EMS determines how many choices you get and a certain level of devastation.  Low EMS gets teammates killed by Harbinger (apparently) and has other bad effects at the end.  Higher EMS has better effects, supposedly.  I have not done a renegade runthrough, have seen it a coiuple times on youtube so I can't confirm all that happens but things are somewhat different-narration mostly.  I don't know how much it actually affects the programming of it, but it seems somewhat limited except for slides.

I didn't realize the slides where different if you didn't play ME2 (played both one and two..8600 EMS or something in that park) I got the final breath on my first run-through which I miss a ton of stuff usually because I just want to get to the end. Running through it the second time is where I got disappointed, much like the youtube video I too even sent Chakwas packing for Dr. Michel for the ten extra EMS. Still same ending. Kind of like when you haven’t gone shopping in a while you keep checking the fridge and no matter how many times you look there’s still nothing in there.

I think things are different if you didn't have Zaeed or Kasumi or say Samara or someone didn't survive the suicide mission.  So these people shouldn't be in the slides.  As for in my game-they are there, because I have all that content.  But playing ME3 standalone certain slides are missing.  There are no major changes, because most of the slides are fairly generic.  But some are not there because those people never existed.  And the impact of those people on EMS is minimal-like 25 here or there.

[3DandBeyond]

robertthebard wrote...

No, this is not what has already happened.  In order for your assessment to be accurate, BW would have had to rewritten how the endings play out, since this is part of what is asked for here.  Let's look at part of it:

We want a Destroy ending that, with high enough EMS, the Geth and EDI don't have to die, and Shepard is seen flying off into the sunset on the Normandy.  This is, despite claims to the contrary, a complete rewrite of the Destroy ending.  They can't just add this or that to make it work without rewriting it.  Cool with me, not the issue here.  The issue here is you claiming that they have already rewritten the ending to satisfy somebody else.  That's not what happened.  They provided the EC for everybody, not everybody liked it.  This is different than writing the EC for people that were already happy with the endings.  They wrote it and released it for those that weren't and it didn't work for some, did for others.  This is an unintended consequence, not setting out to please a select group.  Is this semantics?  Possibly, however, context is important, and the context you're providing is inaccurate.

Now, how are they going to provide such an ending?  Well, they are either going to have to change EMS in the SP campaign, release a ton of what would now be required DLC, or, require MP promotions to get it.  For some here, that's not an issue.  For me, it is.  I don't play much MP, because I'm not very good at it and unlike in the SP game where when I mess up bad, I can reload, I'm dragging three other people down with me.  Not cool.  When I wasn't very good at a specific class in the MMO's I've played, I didn't join groups to bring everyone else down.  I carry that over into MP, no sense in ruining everyone else's fun because they have to carry me, whether that's my intent or not.  So, I'd be cut out, if I cared about it all, due to never being able to get high enough EMS.  How is this not writing it for a specific group of people?

Robert, I will stop you right at the beginning of what you say.  Your implication is that it's a total rewrite.  No, it isn't.  Adding on content that does not change what you currently have is not a rewrite.  If for instance the Crucible was to become an intact complete device and could target only reapers, that does not remove the indiscriminate one from existence.  That ending would still exist.  It's just like what exists now, but more.  There's a low EMS ending that still exists even though a higher EMS one does as well.

And really I don't see what horse you have in this race.  You don't like the endings and yet you don't want them added to.  I appreciate and have always appreciated your discussion.  You are however putting words into my mouth in suggesting people would need MP to get such endings as I've suggested (something that's not at all what I suggest) or saying it would require a lot of DLC to get it.  Not true at all.  It could be done so they wouldn't need MP nor even to play ME1 or 2 at all-it could fit into the current model that is what BW went with even if I don't totally appreciate that for a game with 3 in the name.

As it now stands I have so much EMS due to MP that I can't get the worst endings, right?  Not true at all.  I can go offline and see those endings if I so choose.  I am not forced to use MP at all.  Once I go offline, my MP effect no longer exists.

If someone does not like what the EC did to their game, they also can do something about it.  Un-install it.

However, I have suggested that they could add to EMS (or utilize current EMS) within a specific for pay DLC that would add to the destroy ending (one possible idea) and make the crucible work "right" and change some of the kid's dialog as well add to the ending, perhaps for said DLC the other choices might become non-choices (again speculation as to how it could be done to dramatize that the only real choice for those that get this DLC is destroy).  The EMS obtained or unlocked would create in part this ending content.

That all means that unless you bought the DLC specific for this you would not ever have to see this ending, but it also would allow you to buy this DLC (if you wanted any story attached to it) and still not get high enough EMS to be locked into it.  You can do that now if you want the worst ending.  The same would be possible for any new content.

Each piece of DLC already seems to be geared toward adding to EMS and yet, the necessary minimum for "best" ending is not raised and with good reason-not everyone wants to play MP or buy DLC.  There's no reason this should change even if additional endings were contained within all new DLC-it's related to things you do, things you find, and EMS you get.

Please, Robert, I've asked you before to not put words in my mouth.  I was a real opponent to the idea of tying MP to SP with the original endings and I still am, so don't try to say that I am suggesting anything of the kind or similar to that (too high EMS that not everyone can get so they need MP) here at all.

I've said that any additional ending would be specifically tied to EMS geared to that ending.  There is way more than enough EMS that exists already to make that happen for anyone that wants it and enough leeway with EMS so that if someone does not want to see new endings they would not have to.

As it stands, I don't have to play anything but the main game to get the story to advance to the ending when online.  However, ME3 alone has more than enough EMS within it to get you the same endings I can get.  Creating an additional ending with more EMS attached to any items you need to "finish" the crucible would give anyone enough EMS to get that ending.  They might have to be more of a completionist within the game and the DLC to get enough EMS to get say the Shepard lives ending, but they could make choices and not get enough EMS and still get the current endings, even with "new ending" DLC.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 septembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[robertthebard]

3DandBeyond wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

No, this is not what has already happened.  In order for your assessment to be accurate, BW would have had to rewritten how the endings play out, since this is part of what is asked for here.  Let's look at part of it:

We want a Destroy ending that, with high enough EMS, the Geth and EDI don't have to die, and Shepard is seen flying off into the sunset on the Normandy.  This is, despite claims to the contrary, a complete rewrite of the Destroy ending.  They can't just add this or that to make it work without rewriting it.  Cool with me, not the issue here.  The issue here is you claiming that they have already rewritten the ending to satisfy somebody else.  That's not what happened.  They provided the EC for everybody, not everybody liked it.  This is different than writing the EC for people that were already happy with the endings.  They wrote it and released it for those that weren't and it didn't work for some, did for others.  This is an unintended consequence, not setting out to please a select group.  Is this semantics?  Possibly, however, context is important, and the context you're providing is inaccurate.

Now, how are they going to provide such an ending?  Well, they are either going to have to change EMS in the SP campaign, release a ton of what would now be required DLC, or, require MP promotions to get it.  For some here, that's not an issue.  For me, it is.  I don't play much MP, because I'm not very good at it and unlike in the SP game where when I mess up bad, I can reload, I'm dragging three other people down with me.  Not cool.  When I wasn't very good at a specific class in the MMO's I've played, I didn't join groups to bring everyone else down.  I carry that over into MP, no sense in ruining everyone else's fun because they have to carry me, whether that's my intent or not.  So, I'd be cut out, if I cared about it all, due to never being able to get high enough EMS.  How is this not writing it for a specific group of people?

Robert, I will stop you right at the beginning of what you say.  Your implication is that it's a total rewrite.  No, it isn't.  Adding on content that does not change what you currently have is not a rewrite.  If for instance the Crucible was to become an intact complete device and could target only reapers, that does not remove the indiscriminate one from existence.  That ending would still exist.  It's just like what exists now, but more.  There's a low EMS ending that still exists even though a higher EMS one does as well.

And really I don't see what horse you have in this race.  You don't like the endings and yet you don't want them added to.  I appreciate and have always appreciated your discussion.  You are however putting words into my mouth in suggesting people would need MP to get such endings as I've suggested (something that's not at all what I suggest) or saying it would require a lot of DLC to get it.  Not true at all.  It could be done so they wouldn't need MP nor even to play ME1 or 2 at all-it could fit into the current model that is what BW went with even if I don't totally appreciate that for a game with 3 in the name.

As it now stands I have so much EMS due to MP that I can't get the worst endings, right?  Not true at all.  I can go offline and see those endings if I so choose.  I am not forced to use MP at all.  Once I go offline, my MP effect no longer exists.

If someone does not like what the EC did to their game, they also can do something about it.  Un-install it.

However, I have suggested that they could add to EMS (or utilize current EMS) within a specific for pay DLC that would add to the destroy ending (one possible idea) and make the crucible work "right" and change some of the kid's dialog as well add to the ending, perhaps for said DLC the other choices might become non-choices (again speculation as to how it could be done to dramatize that the only real choice for those that get this DLC is destroy).  The EMS obtained or unlocked would create in part this ending content.

That all means that unless you bought the DLC specific for this you would not ever have to see this ending, but it also would allow you to buy this DLC (if you wanted any story attached to it) and still not get high enough EMS to be locked into it.  You can do that now if you want the worst ending.  The same would be possible for any new content.

Each piece of DLC already seems to be geared toward adding to EMS and yet, the necessary minimum for "best" ending is not raised and with good reason-not everyone wants to play MP or buy DLC.  There's no reason this should change even if additional endings were contained within all new DLC-it's related to things you do, things you find, and EMS you get.

Please, Robert, I've asked you before to not put words in my mouth.  I was a real opponent to the idea of tying MP to SP with the original endings and I still am, so don't try to say that I am suggesting anything of the kind or similar to that (too high EMS that not everyone can get so they need MP) here at all.

I've said that any additional ending would be specifically tied to EMS geared to that ending.  There is way more than enough EMS that exists already to make that happen for anyone that wants it and enough leeway with EMS so that if someone does not want to see new endings they would not have to.

As it stands, I don't have to play anything but the main game to get the story to advance to the ending when online.  However, ME3 alone has more than enough EMS within it to get you the same endings I can get.  Creating an additional ending with more EMS attached to any items you need to "finish" the crucible would give anyone enough EMS to get that ending.  They might have to be more of a completionist within the game and the DLC to get enough EMS to get say the Shepard lives ending, but they could make choices and not get enough EMS and still get the current endings, even with "new ending" DLC.

It would probably help you to understand that  I was actually replying to the last comment in that pyramid, and used the High EMS Destroy as an example.  However, since I wound up with right at 7k TMS, so 3500 EMS, just how high, and how much changing are they going to have to do to get it  That's after Leviathan, and I'm not sure what else I can get there.  So depending on where you set the bar, it may indeed be impossible to get w/out MP.  All moot for me, my horse in this part of this race was the statement that BW had already rewritten the ending to please one faction.  Since that wasn't the case, I pointed it out with the best example I could come up with.  As you can see from that number though, if I fail to broker peace between the Geth and Quarians, I might fall short, pre Leviathan, to enough EMS to even get Synthesis offered.  All any future DLC does is give me breathing room if I mess up something else(pun not intended, although next time I may use it on purpose).

quote in context

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yea, the thread called "One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing", and full of whining about the endings clearly was created just for fun.

Ok. Have a fun then

Again Seival, you keep repeating the same thing that shows you have yet to even read my OP. I've asked you to do the decent thing and read my OP before commenting on it. You refuse to do so. Apparently you have an odd idea of fun.

I don't make replies in a thread before reading OP. The original post is a lot of "water" plus giant "NERF THE ENDINGS" phrase on the bottom. And the entire thread is full of the same whining.

You have to understand that BioWare insists on true sci-fi nature of the game. And there are a lot of fans, who are on BioWare side. You are just wasting your time. We will not allow you to corrupt ME Trilogy.

Modifié par Seival, 08 septembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Zan51 wrote...

I honestly believe BW completely underestimated the intelligence of many, in fact a great many, of its customers - us!

I do believe as well this is part of what happened. Damn shame, really...

[Valmarn]

Xellith wrote...

I love how in refuse the catalyst is all "yeah my solution wont work anymore just because you are in my room. Yes. You. You being in my room means my solution I have used for a billion years which has caused the death of a few quintillion people will not work anymore. Oh you dont want the Red, Green or Blue options? "

"SO BE IT.

The cycle continues"

Oh Bioware. U so krazy lazy

Fixed

[Xellith]

Seival wrote...


You have to understand that BioWare insists on true sci-fi nature of the game.

Dragon Age called. They want their magic synthesis back.

[Dragoonlordz]

Xellith wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...

Just giving this a quick bump as it doesn't deserve to slide into obscurity.

How dare you bump this thread!

If you have to keep forcing a bump to keep this topic under discussion then the problem is it has not got enough people interested in it to keep it alive on it's own. If it is fading away all the time, take the hint that there is not enough interest to keep it alive on it's own merits. I have noticed this alot with this thread few keep bumping it because others do not care to discuss in it so it faded away vast amount of times. You cannot even use the excuses that the section of the forum is moving at a fast pace because it is not. It is simply fading away all the time because is not enough people willing to discuss it's contents.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 septembre 2012 - 07:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yea, the thread called "One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing", and full of whining about the endings clearly was created just for fun.

Ok. Have a fun then

Again Seival, you keep repeating the same thing that shows you have yet to even read my OP. I've asked you to do the decent thing and read my OP before commenting on it. You refuse to do so. Apparently you have an odd idea of fun.

I don't make replies in a thread before reading OP. The original post is a lot of "water" plus giant "NERF THE ENDINGS" phrase on the bottom. And the entire thread is full of the same whining.

You have to understand that BioWare insists on true sci-fi nature of the game. And there are a lot of fans, who are on BioWare side. You are just wasting your time. We will not allow you to corrupt ME Trilogy.

No, you did not read what I wrote and have repeated the same nonsense consistently.  Stop being sophomoric and redundant using hot button words to insult. 

I agree that ME was supposed to be Sci fi and not fantasy-you like fantasy.  I've seen your drawings Seival and read your OPs unlike what you've done here.  I know you see Shepard as a reaper still maintaining love for Liara and Liara loving Shreaper back.  That's fine for you, but Sci fi and true Sci fi?  No, not at all.  You have the endings you want even though they weren't what you wanted at all after the original endings, but now you say they are.

How am I threatening what you have?  And how could it possibly corrupt anything when it is about affirming life and true victory, both good things, and not reaper love as you see it?

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Xellith wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...

Just giving this a quick bump as it doesn't deserve to slide into obscurity.

How dare you bump this thread!

If you have to keep forcing a bump to keep this topic under discussion then the problem is it has not got enough people interested in it to keep it alive on it's own. If it is fading away all the time, take the hint that there is not enough interest to keep it alive on it's own merits. I have noticed this alot with this thread few keep bumping it because others do not care to discuss in it so it faded away vast amount of times. You cannot even use the excuses that the section of the forum is moving at a fast pace because it is not. It is simply fading away all the time because is not enough people willing to discuss it's contents.

nice to try and discount someones thread again instead of leaving like you said awhile back