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One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing


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#2901
Dragoonlordz

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AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If I did I know a lot of people here that would hate what I would have to say. What Bioware has said though speaks for itself. Regardless of that however my point remains, just because has a lot of pages does not mean they are going to do something hence the IT reference which had vastly more pages than this one.


so you don't speak or work for Bioware then, ok


I don't need to. They already said what their stance is.

Not that what your saying has anything to do with what I said originally. Page numbers do not equal more chance to have something implemented was my point. The IT thread was a prime example of which I gave. I question whether you realise that they are probably aware of the content and context of this thread already just like they are for most threads on here.

If they haven't responded and take into account their previous responses on this subject it is more than a fair assumption to think maybe they do not agree with what this thread proposes however the number of pages does not alter this. It could be a single post in a one page thread that gets implemented just as much as chance of a 1000 page thread getting implemented. It all comes down to what they agree with and what they do not. Now we have a reference to what they might feel about this subject given their past responses which also have to take into account.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:58 .


#2902
3DandBeyond

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NorDee65 wrote...

I agree only partially with your assessment that Bioware wrote the EC for everyone. Directly after many people, including myself, finished the game, the discussion on these forums and elsewhere on the internet began. Many people from all over the world analysed the game/endings and pointed out where the faults, plotholes etc lay. They asked pointed questions and made their desires/disappointments known. Employees of Bioware have stated that they read and listened. And yet the EC came out, where some problems were addressed but certainly not all. And then there is "reject". Maybe this was a nod towards those who were extemely unhappy, and maybe it was meant as a peace offering. Maybe. Or not. I am undecided.:crying:

I do not know if the EC could have been better had even more time been invested. However it came about, the EC was created ignoring most of what the "disappointed" people had defined as problematic.


This end sentence very nicely sums it all up.  The EC actually seems to have been created of speculation that said, "I hope this is not what this all means, but it probably is."  I know that because the "Listening" thread contained a lot of speculation that is now contained in the EC and the devs ignored the most often repeated request for closure-Shepard lives with one small scene of a reunion.  In fact, no one in that thread repeatedly asked for closure for Synthesis or Control.  In fact, the most often stated things were that the ending could not be happy because the galaxy was or should have been destroyed, based on what happened-so a win was out of the question.  And, people repeatedly said just how stupid control and synthesis were and then "correctly" interpreted what was meant by them.  I believe fully that what people speculated was what was incorporated into the EC.  But, they got it so wrong. 

People hoped that it might somehow all be erased (knew that it wouldn't).  What it came down to then for most is the wish, along with almost outright begging, that BW would include a hard to get Shepard lives, we win, geth and EDI can live ending.  I will go so far as to say the majority here asked for that as a bottom line of what they wanted.  They did not care for clarity and closure for control and synthesis because they didn't see those as anything Shepard would choose-not because Shepard would die, but because neither of those were things Shepard ever wanted to do.

And I will say that that was a majority desire-not that it would be easy for Shepard to live, but that it would be possible and that Shepard could also truly sacrifice so that people in the galaxy could live on unencumbered by the reapers, externally or internally.  Beyond that they also expressed a desire to refuse what the kid said and have it lead to a possible victory as well as a possible total defeat-but they wanted it to have the possibility to do both.  That was an off the chart, impossible wish but a wish nonetheless.  And I know this because I read almost every single one of the posts in over 900 pages of requests.

So, the wish was repeatedly expressed there in over 900 pages and in various support threads almost constantly.  It was ignored and yet people still like to assert that the EC contains closure.  No, it doesn't.  Closure was always there for anyone that liked the definitive Shepard dies endings.  I knew what they meant because they still mean what they always did-fantasy can look cool.  Destroy didn't get much attention at all.  It's got almost word for word the same explanation from the kid as the original ending.  It has a psychic LI scene with the nameplate.  It has Hackett patting himself on the back for uniting the galaxy.  And it shows the Charon relay and the Citadel in pieces (which should mean everything is totally screwed in the Sol system).  And it has a gasping torso.  Wow, the closure. 

Don't get me wrong-Destroy is for me the only "real" ending I can wrap head canon around.  I see EDI and the geth having some sort of shielding to protect them from the full effects of the "pulse".  I see Shepard being picked up from the rubble by some stragglers of say Csec (maybe Bailey) and Miranda and EDI reconstructing the Lazarus Project and "fixing" Shepard.  I can see any one of a thousand ways to end it in my mind.  But I played a video game-with full emphasis on both words, video and game.  That means you see the fun.  I don't see the fun at the end of this game right now.  I can imagine it, but this wasn't called an imagine it game and while I like to use my imagination, it's free.  Video games cost money.

#2903
3DandBeyond

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The point here is that I'm not looking to substitute my "wisdom" for that of the devs. I am asking them to consider the wishes of those that are here and that care for something more, that they'd pay for.

I have yet to see how this would hurt or offend anyone else who now has the endings they like. Apparently since these endings are the ones they love (even when they say in other threads that they aren't),if BW already had planned to have DLC affect the endings in some way outside of my requests, there would be a problem. If BW always intended to change the endings (might be since Leviathan points to the possibility) then how could they possibly support BW doing that and how could they not support BW for doing that?

I'm merely asking BW to consider all this going forward as they look at DLC and ways to keep this franchise beloved and relevant and viable. Encouraging others to return (even people that are ok with the EC don't all love it and have moved on) is one possible path to ever more DLC and leaves open the real possibility for more ME games. Neither of which are things I am opposed to. I just ask that BW please consider all this.

#2904
AresKeith

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If I did I know a lot of people here that would hate what I would have to say. What Bioware has said though speaks for itself. Regardless of that however my point remains, just because has a lot of pages does not mean they are going to do something hence the IT reference which had vastly more pages than this one.


so you don't speak or work for Bioware then, ok


I don't need to. They already said what their stance is.

Not that what your saying has anything to do with what I said originally. Page numbers do not equal more chance to have something implemented was my point. The IT thread was a prime example of which I gave. I question whether you realise that they are probably aware of the content and context of this thread already just like they are for most threads on here.

If they haven't responded and take into account their previous responses on this subject it is more than a fair assumption to think maybe they do not agree with what this thread proposes however the number of pages does not alter this. It could be a single post in a one page thread that gets implemented just as much as chance of a 1000 page thread getting implemented. It all comes down to what they agree with and what they do not. Now we have a reference to what they might feel about this subject given their past responses which also have to take into account.


right no more ending DLC, while my idea for 3D's thread is to imput it onto their planned DLCs

#2905
Fiannawolf

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*grabs a chair and sits patiently*

Weelllll wont know until they release more SP DLC....still wonder why I cant save in london anymore at the FOB...right before the final goodbyes to most of the team that is....

Ill make sure to sub this thread and keep the fire burning. Id love to have an ME ending that I can emotionally deal with. Seems only my poor refusal Shepard has some closure at the moment. In a morbid "We all epic faceplanted" failed way. Loved the Speech though. Pure Sheppy right there.

#2906
3DandBeyond

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Fiannawolf wrote...

*grabs a chair and sits patiently*

Weelllll wont know until they release more SP DLC....still wonder why I cant save in london anymore at the FOB...right before the final goodbyes to most of the team that is....

Ill make sure to sub this thread and keep the fire burning. Id love to have an ME ending that I can emotionally deal with. Seems only my poor refusal Shepard has some closure at the moment. In a morbid "We all epic faceplanted" failed way. Loved the Speech though. Pure Sheppy right there.


Absolutely the best part of the EC endings.  The speech is awesome.  It makes you think all things are possible again and then you die.

#2907
Seival

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

As I said, I don't make replies in a thread before reading OP.

And looks like you didn't understand my pictures and what I've said before. I believe that Shepard dies in Control. Catalyst-Shepard can only be called Shepard's offspring. And this offspring may have nice relationships with the people Shepard knew and loved. But that doesn't mean "reunion possibility" or something like that. Catalyst-Shepard and Shepard's LI may become good friends. This is what my pictures really mean.

EC endings 90% repeat my own conclusions and thoughts on the original endings. EC didn't make any changes. EC just explained the endings in more details, and added the full-scale epilogue. My expectations were fully satisfied.



Each of the endings was about "affirming life and true victory" even before EC. If you can't make a really tough choice even in a game, then ME Trilogy is just not for you.


Your last line here and well this whole post proves you can't be taken seriously.  Your last sentence is insulting and belittling and meant to trivialize what people are saying.  Don't ever fracking tell me I can't make tough choices.  Please do explain the ones you have made in life for me that gives you that kind of ability to state emphatically just what I can and cannot do.

Have you had to decide whether someone will live or die in real life?  I have. 

Don't ever express this idiotic kind of statement ever again.  I am so sick and tired of people who do not know who the other human beings are on the end of their retorts telling them they don't know about real life or they don't know you can't always get what you want or they can't make tough choices.

Give me one example of a tough choice you have made in your life Seival that gives you the authority to tell me that I can't make tough choices. 

And then read my OP for clarity.  Your posts here have repeated the same vomited up garbage that others have used to show superiority over those who disagree about a game.  You call us whiners which fully indicates you have read nothing contained within this thread.  Act mature and come up with a valid thought that actually is directed at real content contained herein or move along, please.


If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.

#2908
N7_Paragon2077

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Absolutely the best part of the EC endings.  The speech is awesome.  It makes you think all things are possible again and then you die.


Agree 100%

"I fight for freedom, mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you. And I'll die free." B)

#2909
AresKeith

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Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious

#2910
Seival

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AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious


Believe me or not - I don't care about that Posted Image

#2911
3DandBeyond

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AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious


The reason I end up having to state it (and I don't like to) is because of immaturity such as your own. I don't lie. I have offered no bravado.  I have shared some of my experiences which for your information are all true.  What a sad little person you are to have nothing better to do than prove this in a thread which is all about loving the work that a game dev did and hoping for more along the same lines. 

I prefer to have my belief in the best in people as being a possibility at the end of ME3.  You constantly display the worst.  So very sad.

Still and all this thread is not for you, nor is it about you.  I am not appealing to you for anything and it's not your decision to make.

I am asking BW to look at how fans appreciated what they did.  I may get called a hater (which is untrue) by people like you for not liking the game endings, but I don't display a hate for real people.  I realize that real people post on the BSN.  You display true hate.  I pity you for that.

I've love ME and the characters and have placed some hope with BW.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:02 .


#2912
AresKeith

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Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious


Believe me or not - I don't care about that Posted Image


so why are you trying and failing to belittle people here

#2913
Archonsg

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

*grabs a chair and sits patiently*

Weelllll wont know until they release more SP DLC....still wonder why I cant save in london anymore at the FOB...right before the final goodbyes to most of the team that is....

Ill make sure to sub this thread and keep the fire burning. Id love to have an ME ending that I can emotionally deal with. Seems only my poor refusal Shepard has some closure at the moment. In a morbid "We all epic faceplanted" failed way. Loved the Speech though. Pure Sheppy right there.


Absolutely the best part of the EC endings.  The speech is awesome.  It makes you think all things are possible again and then you die.


It was the only time we got to see the Shepard we knew come back. For those who took the trouble to ask the Catalyst every possible question and then point for point refute the AI, you see that old Shepard, the one with a backbone, the one with integrity come back to the fore.

It is too bad that Bioware's message to us players is "Integrity, honor and standing up for one's beliefs of unity, freedom and the sanctity of a person's indivituality, is the looser's choice."

They could have written in a hero's ending, instead we got a "Chamberlain ending."

Modifié par Archonsg, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:15 .


#2914
Fiannawolf

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@Seival: Why are you in this thread now? You have an ending you enjoy...its all over your signature. The whole point for this topic is to provide more alternatives. Ones that dont require a metric ton of head canon to get them to work. Its a sad day that I have to write a story out just to get some more emotional closure for this universe. I didnt have to do anything of that sort with DA Origins or even DA2. At least there I know my Hawke is having adventures with Izzy. After being the Viscount of Funtimes that is. I bought Izzy a boat...it was glorious.

Thing is: Bioware can still weave more stuff into the narrative to bring back disheartened fans and keep the ones who love the vanilla endings, EC endings and those who want to shoot the Starkid into the sun with Cains, plus anyone else who still has some concerns about the narrative.

I liked the Levi conversation b/c Shep was ticked and knew what those cuttlefish were trying to do. She wasnt passive and derpy. By using the images of people instead of a random kid I didnt care about I was more interested in the conversation. It fit alot better then what we got at endgame. I wanted harby to try to trick me by using the dead against me or choices I made......hopefully all this will make the DA team sit up and take notice. I dont want Bioware to fade away....I want the ME universe to endure...I love it almost as much as Babylon 5. I dont agree with Control or Synth for my own personal reasons and the other two options have massive drawbacks but if thats all we are left with even after more SP dlc comes out....well it will be a sadder day for me.

#2915
Seival

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3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious


The reason I end up having to state it (and I don't like to) is because of immaturity such as your own.  Grow up.  I don't lie. I have offered no bravado.  I have shared some of my experiences which for your information are all true.  What a sad little person you are to have nothing better to do than prove this in a thread which is all about loving the work that a game dev did and hoping for more along the same lines. 


I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Only immature persons have inevitable desire to prove their status with some loud bravado.

If making tough choices is not a problem for you, then make the one already - choose your favorite ending, and accept ME Story as it is. And after that, go and support devs for the great job they made. It's not that hard, believe me. And I will make you much happier.

#2916
TheRealJayDee

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Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.


What the hell are you trying to say with this? Because somebody experienced unpleasant things in their real lifes they're supposed to easily accept everything they're presented with in entertainment media?! Maybe I don't get something here, but this sounds like total BS...

#2917
Xellith

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I think its kinda fail they didnt show a montage of all your allies and worlds falling in battle with the reapers retreating to dark space after the harvest. And THEN liaras beacon. Kinda lazy how did executed the refuse option to be honest when you compare it to the other options.

#2918
Seival

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AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

If your bravado about the real life was at least 10% truth, then accepting ME Trilogy Story as it is will be very easy for you. Go ahead. Tell everyone right now: "The story is fine. Learn to accept the storyteller's work".

...But, somehow I believe the bravado was a fake.



P.S. I prefer not to tell anyone about my RL tough choices. That's private. And if you have a desire to tell everyone about such things, then I'm really sorry for you.


Bravo in making yourself sound even worst, thats why we don't take your comments serious


Believe me or not - I don't care about that Posted Image


so why are you trying and failing to belittle people here


Actually, I'm trying to convince people to stop whining and accept ME Story as it is.

#2919
AresKeith

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@Seival I honestly think your trolling here, because you have no clue what this thread is about at all

#2920
3DandBeyond

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AresKeith wrote...

@Seival I honestly think your trolling here, because you have no clue what this thread is about at all


Yes, words are cheap-says one thing proves another.  Seival is supposedly happy with reaper love and that's fine.  Lovely head canon if it works.  Frankly I don't tend to love things that have eaten people, but hey not my choice.  It's Seival's and that's fine.  I think instead of then focusing on what will not interfere with that at all would be time better spent, but it's not my life.  I post because I want something better and because I am requesting it.  I have no idea why someone happy with the endings would be here at all.  Nothing I've suggested would interfere with that.  I don't want to get in the middle of reaper love.

#2921
Archonsg

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3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@Seival I honestly think your trolling here, because you have no clue what this thread is about at all


Yes, words are cheap-says one thing proves another.  Seival is supposedly happy with reaper love and that's fine.  Lovely head canon if it works.  Frankly I don't tend to love things that have eaten people, but hey not my choice.  It's Seival's and that's fine.  I think instead of then focusing on what will not interfere with that at all would be time better spent, but it's not my life.  I post because I want something better and because I am requesting it.  I have no idea why someone happy with the endings would be here at all.  Nothing I've suggested would interfere with that.  I don't want to get in the middle of reaper love


Perhaps because they know that the endings they love so much would become insubstantial had we a real choice. That if there was an ending choice where Shepard can win the war without bending to the Catalyst's will, that he (or she) could survive and that he did not need to betray allies or cause the death of a friend to win this war and we get to see a lover's reunion , no one, including themselves, even if they won't admit it, would actually choose any of the original / EC endings.

Modifié par Archonsg, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:37 .


#2922
3DandBeyond

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Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Believe me or not - I don't care about that Posted Image


so why are you trying and failing to belittle people here


Actually, I'm trying to convince people to stop whining and accept ME Story as it is.


Actually, what I think this is all about is someone is not happy that DLC they suggested (which also included apparently a Shepard can live ending) was not widely embraced.  I just found such a thread written by Seival less than a month ago. 

So, should I have gone and told you Seival to accept the story as it is when you were suggesting DLC?  I didn't remember seeing that thread at all but it's really rather funny that you were suggesting DLC to change all endings just under a month ago and now you are criticizing me for asking for DLC to add to one ending as one possibility.

Please explain why it was ok for you to do that and not ok for me to do this.

#2923
3DandBeyond

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Archonsg wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@Seival I honestly think your trolling here, because you have no clue what this thread is about at all


Yes, words are cheap-says one thing proves another.  Seival is supposedly happy with reaper love and that's fine.  Lovely head canon if it works.  Frankly I don't tend to love things that have eaten people, but hey not my choice.  It's Seival's and that's fine.  I think instead of then focusing on what will not interfere with that at all would be time better spent, but it's not my life.  I post because I want something better and because I am requesting it.  I have no idea why someone happy with the endings would be here at all.  Nothing I've suggested would interfere with that.  I don't want to get in the middle of reaper love


Perhaps because they know that the only reason why the endings they love so much would become insubstantial had we a real choice. That if there was an ending choice where Shepard can win the war without bending to the Catalyst's will, that he (or she) could survive and that he did not need to betray allies or cause the death of a friend to win this war and we get to see a lover's reunion , no one, including themselves, even if they won't admit it, would actually choose any of the original / EC endings.



I agree and this is proven because as I stated just as you were posting I did find a thread that person created suggesting DLC to change all the endings.  Funny.  Should I pull out the whine word now.

#2924
Applepie_Svk

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Believe me or not - I don't care about that Posted Image


so why are you trying and failing to belittle people here


Actually, I'm trying to convince people to stop whining and accept ME Story as it is.


Actually, what I think this is all about is someone is not happy that DLC they suggested (which also included apparently a Shepard can live ending) was not widely embraced.  I just found such a thread written by Seival less than a month ago. 

So, should I have gone and told you Seival to accept the story as it is when you were suggesting DLC?  I didn't remember seeing that thread at all but it's really rather funny that you were suggesting DLC to change all endings just under a month ago and now you are criticizing me for asking for DLC to add to one ending as one possibility.

Please explain why it was ok for you to do that and not ok for me to do this.


You mean that one about triple syntheziz or that post ending DLC which doesn´t make a single sense ? like the ending of ME3 =]

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:39 .


#2925
Seival

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3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@Seival I honestly think your trolling here, because you have no clue what this thread is about at all


Yes, words are cheap-says one thing proves another. Seival is supposedly happy with reaper love and that's fine.  Lovely head canon if it works.  Frankly I don't tend to love things that have eaten people, but hey not my choice.  It's Seival's and that's fine.  I think instead of then focusing on what will not interfere with that at all would be time better spent, but it's not my life. I post because I want something better and because I am requesting it.  I have no idea why someone happy with the endings would be here at all.  Nothing I've suggested would interfere with that.  I don't want to get in the middle of reaper love.


Nothing would interfere? Let's make a fast example from OP? 


In making Shepard choose those current endings and not giving people one truly satisfying ending that is the result of people truly uniting and lifting themselves up, you have ruined Shepard for many of us. In leaving Shepard in a heap in the only possible way for Shepard to live, after committing an unconscionable act, you are seeming to show disdain for fans and for Shepard. In adding refuse, which has the true Shepard back again, you are proving that people are just plainly incompetent and will fail. Please share with us what you mean by all this. It's not fun.


BioWare already said what did they mean by releasing EC. The whole point of the endings is not to give players even one truely satisfying ending. Any change to this will ruin ending's balance, and reduce the story's artistic value to the state of some cheap movie.

Modifié par Seival, 08 septembre 2012 - 11:40 .