6432 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Instead of making an Ending DLC, they could just input this through there planned DLCs

[3DandBeyond]

eoinnx03 wrote...

Good post, It's all ruined now though, theres no way to burn the endings away. They did what they did, they tried to fix it, let's just sigh move on and hope Dragon age 3 isn't terrible.

Yeah, but no.  I played DAO and not really too interested beyond that.  I have other dragons and wizards and all that stuff in a bunch of other games.  ME was different from all that and I liked it.  I know what you are saying and that's fine.  I'm not even saying this is something that would work or be considered ever by Bioware, but I can still ask.

[Fiannawolf]

It would be easier to do...add alittle every time until the last SP DLC hits then give us a whammy of a suprise. Would be pleasent. One can dream.

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

Instead of making an Ending DLC, they could just input this through there planned DLCs

Well yes, it would be great for it to be a part of it and could truly work with it-in fact I still kind of hope they do.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[3DandBeyond]

Fiannawolf wrote...

It would be easier to do...add alittle every time until the last SP DLC hits then give us a whammy of a suprise. Would be pleasent. One can dream.

Yes exactly it was one thing I suggested in one way with destroy and that is also in the puzzle theory for refuse.  The only reason I came to this conclusion and offer this idea is because I was trying to offset the outrage of some who claim they just love the endings, even while they offer ways to change or add to them.  I wanted to suggest something that would be optional, but I fully agree it would be way more natural as a part of already planned DLC-I'd love that, myself.

[AresKeith]

and it would please just about both sides of the Fanbase, although we would have to work harder for in in the game

Modifié par AresKeith, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

and it would please just about both sides of the Fanbase, although we would have to work harder for in in the game

If Bioware thought of it first, then the one side would be ok with it, but not if it's a fan suggestion.  Even if they'd personally like what we suggest, they will say they don't.  That's what Archonsg was saying.  You see it here AK.  If you even suggest something that would not affect their game, they can't stand it.  I don't know why, really since it would not mess them up at all.  But there it is.  The thing is to make it seem like it was BW's original idea and it will be lauded as genius by the ones that like the endings they have.  We need someone unknown to create a thread where they have insider info that BW plans on making a real destroy ending or refuse ending based on things you get in DLC along the way. 

Ok not a serious idea to try and fool the BSN at all.

However, I see nothing wrong with making any suggestion to them as to make this workable.  I think it is truly a way for everyone to win-everyone gets more content and everyone wants to buy more content.  What's not to love.

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

First of all, I don't hate anything, because hate is counter-productive and dangerous.

Secondly, the stories are not always about the fun (especially sci-fi). Some stories are sad, and instructive. You have to accept that. Asking the writers to "fix it" is terribly wrong, because that will not be something writers wanted to say anymore.

Finally, if you really want to help some particular fans, then give them a good example. Accept the endings as they are. All this does right now is keeping a "low-profile hate burning".

Talk is cheap, action speaks volumes.  You have continually called me names here and been outright nasty.  That is not kind and shows hatred.  You have no problem calling anyone names.  I have however shown real restraint with you because you use passive aggressiveness and implied insults even when you are not out and out insulting me.  Spare me the love if this is the best behavior you can muster.

It is never wrong to ask something of anyone if it's constructive.  Better writers and truly great people have changed endings to things based on fan requests.  And these were people that were far more focused on their art than on profits.  Why should Bioware be held to some higher standard than they are?

You truly are sad and pitiable if what you've gotten from this thread is hate burning.  The ones fomenting hate here have been those like you.  I've professed little other than love-for BW and for ME.  I love my brother, but I don't like everything he does either and I tell him and he tells me and we still love one another.  I've stated the same wish here for BW and for ME.

I see positive things and it is you focusing on the negative for your own spiteful and hate-filled reasons.  I can see no other explanation for it, because that is how you have acted.  You can prove otherwise by apologizing for what you've done and how you've acted here.  Or you can move on or you can keep belittling me.  You indicate I should be an example to others and move on.  Oh, the irony. 

And, this indicates you didn't read or understand what I said-some others spent their entertainment money for the year on ME3 and it is now unplayable for them.  They have no money for other games and can't sell what they have.  How do they move on?  I live in the real world where not everyone is as lucky as me-I can play other games.  It's true though that I liked ME far better than those other games-that doesn't mean I don't play them, but it doesn't mean I just want to throw away ME if there's a chance BW might consider making it replayable for me and others.  I can ask and it's up to them to see what might work for all of us.  I believe they could make money and feel good doing it.  I believe that they would receive a lot of thanks for doing it.  And I don't believe this would personally hurt you.

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and it would please just about both sides of the Fanbase, although we would have to work harder for in in the game

If Bioware thought of it first, then the one side would be ok with it, but not if it's a fan suggestion.  Even if they'd personally like what we suggest, they will say they don't.  That's what Archonsg was saying.  You see it here AK.  If you even suggest something that would not affect their game, they can't stand it.  I don't know why, really since it would not mess them up at all.  But there it is.  The thing is to make it seem like it was BW's original idea and it will be lauded as genius by the ones that like the endings they have.  We need someone unknown to create a thread where they have insider info that BW plans on making a real destroy ending or refuse ending based on things you get in DLC along the way. 

Ok not a serious idea to try and fool the BSN at all.

However, I see nothing wrong with making any suggestion to them as to make this workable.  I think it is truly a way for everyone to win-everyone gets more content and everyone wants to buy more content.  What's not to love.

Bioware's been using fan suggestions for the MP for the past for months, so why not do for the SP also

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...


Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

Is this part of not hating or what?  This is not at all nice.  Again, if you say you don't hate why do you keep showing otherwise?

Tolstoy, Dickens, Verne, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Warner Brothers, any movie with a director's cut (some are not very good), and so on say otherwise.  They have all gone with fan's wishes and changed endings to things.

Books go through a severe process before being sold-all of it based on the input and the say of people hired to determine what fans want.

Games undergo private fan beta testing to determine if there are bugs, but also to determine if fans will like them.

Artists paint at the request of others and alter their art at their request-Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, and others all did this.

Game devs want to earn money-they know in order to do so, fans must like what they make.  If not, no profits, if no profits, no more game company.  BW wants to earn a profit-I want to help them keep doing that.  You want fans to go away, which means less money for DLC, less money for more ME games or ME type games, less money for Bioware and so on.

A game dev can make games they love, but if no one else does then no one will buy them and they can keep warm by burning copies of the games they love-toxic burning, probably, but at least they will be warm.  No game dev and no company that wants to make money ignores fans' wishes. 

I wasn't teaching them how to make anything.  I was making a request, offering suggestions.  You did the same thing in your thread, so does that mean you are trying to teach them how to make video games or that you have your own company now?

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:36 .

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

-snip-

BW wants to earn a profit-I want to help them keep doing that.  You want fans to go away, which means less money for DLC, less money for more ME games or ME type games, less money for Bioware and so on.

A game dev can make games they love, but if no one else does then no one will buy them and they can keep warm by burning copies of the games they love-toxic burning, probably, but at least they will be warm.  No game dev and no company that wants to make money ignores fans' wishes. 

I wasn't teaching them how to make anything.  I was making a request, offering suggestions.  You did the same thing in your thread, so does that mean you are trying to teach them how to make video games or that you have your own company now?

Again like said earlier, Bioware are making a large profit, they have many fans numbering in the millions that are happy with them and will continue to support them even if you do not. You appear to be suffering from what few others on here suffer from. Savior syndrome. They will continue to exist despite what you think will happen if they don't cater to what you want, their existance is not dependant on you or your suggestions. Your free to leave suggestions naturally but they do not need saving and your not the one who will save them.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

Why would anyone do that? The reason I'm purchasing the game is because I don't consider myself able to make a competent product. If it turns out that Bioware can't do it either, then I'll simply stop paying them. At least this way, they know what they could do to earn my continued purchases. A better alternative than you provide, in which case I'll simply stop buying Bioware products altogether.

Any individual, company, etc, which decides to release a product opens themselves to public scrutiny. I don't consider myself a good director, hence why you won't see me trying out for any films. I'm paying you to provide a service which I myself am unable to do.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Chashan]

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

I believe the irony of your stance here was already pointed out: the origin of your flashy avatar was the result of people rallying for just that: a rewrite, a change of the original ending given. And let us face it: the Director's Cut is dramatically different from what was originally served. That merely the Relay's core was affected in that just had me laughing out loud hysterically when I witnessed it first time around.

And Mass Effect 3, being the video game that it is, is a different medium altogether in so far as content is continuously added to it in the form of DLC for a while yet. As such, I see nothing wrong with said DLC offering more substantial "change" in nuances or even surpassing that to certain options of the finale.

Bioware can only gain from this, profit- and reputation-wise*. And as I said before: as is, the ending is akin to the rebirth of the Water Dragon in Jade Empire destroying the Imperial City no matter what. I cannot recall anyone being upset that such a hook was not added in that game, truth be told, and it was made by the very same company...

*PS: I realise some may point out how selling a "proper" ending in portions is a rather shady thing to do, to say the least. Something that has already happened in the industry anyhow, however, and as such, I do not truly see the moral predicament with that.

Modifié par Chashan, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...


Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

Is this part of not hating or what?  This is not at all nice.  Again, if you say you don't hate why do you keep showing otherwise?

Tolstoy, Dickens, Verne, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Warner Brothers, any movie with a director's cut (some are not very good), and so on say otherwise.  They have all gone with fan's wishes and changed endings to things.

Books go through a severe process before being sold-all of it based the say of people hired to determine what fans want.

Games undergo private fan beta testing to determine if there are bugs, but also to determine if fans will like them.

Artists paint at the request of others and alter their art at their request-Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, and others all did this.

Game devs want to earn money-they know in order to do so, fans must like what they make.  If not, no profits, if no profits, no more game company.  BW wants to earn a profit-I want to help them keep doing that.  You want fans to go away, which means less money for DLC, less money for more ME games or ME type games, less money for Bioware and so on.

A game dev can make games they love, but if no one else does then no one will buy them and they can keep warm by burning copies of the games they love-toxic burning, probably, but at least they will be warm.  No game dev and no company that wants to make money ignores fans' wishes. 

I wasn't teaching them how to make anything.  I was making a request, offering suggestions.  You did the same thing in your thread, so does that mean you are trying to teach them how to make video games or that you have your own company now?

Looks like you don't see the difference between hating and disliking. Ok, that is not my problem.

BioWare already shown by their actions that they care about the ideas much more than about the money.

I believe BioWare already stated somewhere on BSN they don't take requests, and our suggestions should not interfere with the game's main concepts. And not giving player any ideal ending is one of the main ME concepts.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

-snip-

BW wants to earn a profit-I want to help them keep doing that.  You want fans to go away, which means less money for DLC, less money for more ME games or ME type games, less money for Bioware and so on.

A game dev can make games they love, but if no one else does then no one will buy them and they can keep warm by burning copies of the games they love-toxic burning, probably, but at least they will be warm.  No game dev and no company that wants to make money ignores fans' wishes. 

I wasn't teaching them how to make anything.  I was making a request, offering suggestions.  You did the same thing in your thread, so does that mean you are trying to teach them how to make video games or that you have your own company now?

Again like said earlier, Bioware are making a large profit, they have many fans numbering in the millions that are happy with them and will continue to support them even if you do not.

if Bioware is making a large profit, why are they laying people off, why is EA's finances since ME3 low. And once again, saying fans numbered in the millions that are happy with is completely false since none of us knows the actual number

[Seival]

Chashan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

I believe the irony of your stance here was already pointed out: the origin of your flashy avatar was the result of people rallying for just that: a rewrite, a change of the original ending given. And let us face it: the Director's Cut is dramatically different from what was originally served. That merely the Relay's core was affected in that just had me laughing out loud hysterically when I witnessed it first time around.

And Mass Effect 3, being the video game that it is, is a different medium altogether in so far as content is continuously added to it in the form of DLC for a while yet. As such, I see nothing wrong with said DLC offering more substantial "change" in nuances or even surpassing that to certain options of the finale.

Bioware can only gain from this, profit- and reputation-wise*. And as I said before: as is, the ending is akin to the rebirth of the Water Dragon in Jade Empire destroying the Imperial City no matter what. I cannot recall anyone being upset that such a hook was not added in that game, truth be told, and it was made by the very same company...

*PS: I realise some may point out how selling a "proper" ending in portions is a rather shady thing to do, to say the least. Something that has already happened in the industry anyhow, however, and as such, I do not truly see the moral predicament with that.

EC didn't change the endings at all. The endings were just explained in more details.

Yes, BioWare could gain a lot of profit by changing the endings. But instead they showed us they care about the ideas more than about the money.

[Blueprotoss]

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

This is very true.  I'm really surprised that some people aren't modding what they don't like what happens in most PC related games.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

-snip-

BW wants to earn a profit-I want to help them keep doing that.  You want fans to go away, which means less money for DLC, less money for more ME games or ME type games, less money for Bioware and so on.

A game dev can make games they love, but if no one else does then no one will buy them and they can keep warm by burning copies of the games they love-toxic burning, probably, but at least they will be warm.  No game dev and no company that wants to make money ignores fans' wishes. 

I wasn't teaching them how to make anything.  I was making a request, offering suggestions.  You did the same thing in your thread, so does that mean you are trying to teach them how to make video games or that you have your own company now?

Again like said earlier, Bioware are making a large profit, they have many fans numbering in the millions that are happy with them and will continue to support them even if you do not.

if Bioware is making a large profit, why are they laying people off, why is EA's finances since ME3 low. And once again, saying fans numbered in the millions that are happy with is completely false since none of us knows the actual number

People come and go prior to ME3 in Bioware, people came and went prior to ME2 aswell and also prior to ME1. Thats how has always been. Bioware brand has increased and now covers even more studios under the brand than during ME1 and during ME2 periods. EA's finances since ME3? Your kidding right if your trying to imply that EA's in anyway bad shape due to ME3. Do you even realise how many studios are part of EA and your trying to imply ME3 had any major impact? ME3 sold very, very well. It did more good to EA's finances than bad.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:50 .

[Blueprotoss]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

People come and go prior to ME3 in the studio, people came and went prior to ME2 aswell and also prior to ME1. Thats how has always been. Bioware brand has increased and now covers even more studios under the brand than during ME1 and during ME2 periods. EA's finances since ME3? Your kidding right if your trying to imply that EA's in anyway bad shape due to ME3. Do you even realise how many studios are part of EA and your trying to imply ME3 had any major impact? ME3 sold very, very well. It did more good to EA than bad.

Either way most of ME team members did stay on to create the ME trilogy.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[3DandBeyond]

Chashan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

I believe the irony of your stance here was already pointed out: the origin of your flashy avatar was the result of people rallying for just that: a rewrite, a change of the original ending given. And let us face it: the Director's Cut is dramatically different from what was originally served. That merely the Relay's core was affected in that just had me laughing out loud hysterically when I witnessed it first time around.

And Mass Effect 3, being the video game that it is, is a different medium altogether in so far as content is continuously added to it in the form of DLC for a while yet. As such, I see nothing wrong with said DLC offering more substantial "change" in nuances or even surpassing that to certain options of the finale.

Bioware can only gain from this, profit- and reputation-wise*. And as I said before: as is, the ending is akin to the rebirth of the Water Dragon in Jade Empire destroying the Imperial City no matter what. I cannot recall anyone being upset that such a hook was not added in that game, truth be told, and it was made by the very same company...

*PS: I realise some may point out how selling a "proper" ending in portions is a rather shady thing to do, to say the least. Something that has already happened in the industry anyhow, however, and as such, I do not truly see the moral predicament with that.

Great post.

The PS is exactly right.  Companies already have content that is released without a fan-compliant ending or even without an ending and DLC addresses it.  Some are releasing episodic content.  It already has been done and even BW did it with the release of Leviathan.  It does not substantially change the endings, but it does change some content that reflects upon them and it changes some dialogue that also changes how they are viewed in part. 

[Chashan]

Blueprotoss wrote...
This is very true.  I'm really surprised that some people aren't modding what they don't like what happens in most PC related games.

Problem is that ME3 is not exactly too modding-friendly, especially concerning that.

Otherwise, if someone manages to squeeze appropriate slides and scenes into Destroy's timeframe, I would be all over that. I am mostly fine with it as is, and it makes ignoring Blue and Green that much easier, but viewing an appropriate end within the game in one go without returning to desktop and viewing one of the many well-crafted fan-made ending cinematics would be that much more appealing...

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

Chashan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Writers, who rewrite the endings of their stories after release are not good writers. And fans, who insist on rewriting are not good fans. I'm glad BioWare understand that.

If you think that you can make better endings, open your own game development company and produce your own RPGs. But when you consume someone else's game, don't try to teach the devs how to make games. Just accept the game or leave.

I believe the irony of your stance here was already pointed out: the origin of your flashy avatar was the result of people rallying for just that: a rewrite, a change of the original ending given. And let us face it: the Director's Cut is dramatically different from what was originally served. That merely the Relay's core was affected in that just had me laughing out loud hysterically when I witnessed it first time around.

And Mass Effect 3, being the video game that it is, is a different medium altogether in so far as content is continuously added to it in the form of DLC for a while yet. As such, I see nothing wrong with said DLC offering more substantial "change" in nuances or even surpassing that to certain options of the finale.

Bioware can only gain from this, profit- and reputation-wise*. And as I said before: as is, the ending is akin to the rebirth of the Water Dragon in Jade Empire destroying the Imperial City no matter what. I cannot recall anyone being upset that such a hook was not added in that game, truth be told, and it was made by the very same company...

*PS: I realise some may point out how selling a "proper" ending in portions is a rather shady thing to do, to say the least. Something that has already happened in the industry anyhow, however, and as such, I do not truly see the moral predicament with that.

EC didn't change the endings at all. The endings were just explained in more details.

Yes, BioWare could gain a lot of profit by changing the endings. But instead they showed us they care about the ideas more than about the money.

Did you miss the refuse ending?  Did you miss the Normandy scene (you know your certain to be relay crash test that wasn't that at all)?  Did you miss the relay retcon?  I guess some changes just went unnoticed.

And again, how is my suggesting anything hurting you and what you now have if you would never have to see it?  The art you have would stand as it is.

[The RPGenius]

I love it when people spout the "I'd like to see YOU do better!" line. The "logic" that no human being can be allowed to have an opinion, positive or negative, of a product until they themselves have created something similar is perhaps the most patently absurd and obviously stupid concept I've ever encountered. Not only is it an idea that attempts to convince people that they should have no standards of discrimination and simply accept anything and everything they encounter as good and valid regardless of its nature--don't think or make choices, just accept and purchase more!--but as long as the person making this statement has ever uttered an opinion about a book, TV show, movie, song, comic, cartoon, picture, meal, governmental plan of action, piece of craftsmanship, or, yes, video game, they're being outrageous hypocrites.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

People come and go prior to ME3 in Bioware, people came and went prior to ME2 aswell and also prior to ME1. Thats how has always been. Bioware brand has increased and now covers even more studios under the brand than during ME1 and during ME2 periods. EA's finances since ME3? Your kidding right if your trying to imply that EA's in anyway bad shape due to ME3. Do you even realise how many studios are part of EA and your trying to imply ME3 had any major impact? ME3 sold very, very well. It did more good to EA's finances than bad.

Bioware brand has increased and now covers even more studios under the brand? Thats transerring, not laying off

Well I'm looking at EA's Finance since ME3 release date and its been going down since then but recently comes back up, every Bioware game sells good on its release date


but thats besides the point, this thread isn't trying to force Bioware to do anything

Modifié par AresKeith, 09 septembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

Looks like you don't see the difference between hating and disliking. Ok, that is not my problem.

BioWare already shown by their actions that they care about the ideas much more than about the money.

I believe BioWare already stated somewhere on BSN they don't take requests, and our suggestions should not interfere with the game's main concepts. And not giving player any ideal ending is one of the main ME concepts.

Ha ha ha ha.   BW is a part of a bigger company that is all about profits, make no mistake.  That does not mean they don't want to make quality products, but one BW exec said that EA's input to them was that they were fine as long as it made money.  No company can live on that statement that they care about ideas much more than about money.  They may value both, but they cannot sell their ideas if they don't make money.

And if BW doesn't take requests then why are you giving them requests.  You will never answer this: why are you allowed to make suggestions but tell me I am not.  Answer that, please.