6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Wow...refusal isnt a stop gap or "bug fix" for OMG you no pick color!?!

Its an additional ending that leads to a critical failure of cycles continuing reguardless of Assests/EMS/WMDs ect ect. Unlike Control and Destroy which have low and high variations...refusal is a strait up "No pass Go and Collect 200 dollars" ending. Sure the speech is epicly awesome but without a success option to follow through with that speech....well its another faceplant for my poor Shep.

Edit:

I understand the vanilla endings just fine.

Which color do you want to destroy the galaxy with?

I understand the EC endings just fine.

Which color do you want to change the galaxy with? God Emporer of Dune Blue w/o any humanity left to the Shepaylst? Paragon and Renegade versions scare the heeby jeebies out of me. Good VO from Meer and Hale though.

Green Shepard snu snu were everyone becomes one and then the Borgified unity galaxy sees green as the only way to true "Happieness and Understanding". They go to an evolutionary event horizon where theres no chance to improve since they are all apex races now. Scary stuff....

Destroy, where you have to sacrifice newly co op syth races that the Kid doesnt even aknowledge as real entities b/c Shep just solved his Organics vs Snyth races delimma, yea hes obsolete now b/c the Commander just solved his billions of years cycle issue. Yea....

Refusal, epic Sara Conner speech about no fate, Up yours Sheridan moment ripped to pieces at the last second because high EMS version of success isnt allowed.

This exactly.  And it's so funny how with the EC they did go even more Babylon5 all over the thing with more chaos and order and the refusal speech.  It's why I cannot take it seriously whenever someone says "it's their work, they shouldn't change it."  Well, BSG, Terminator, B5, Deus ex, Matrix, and even the Princess Bride (stargazer homage to the bedtime story) all called and they'd like their endings back. 

Don't misunderstand me, I get it that stories get influences from all over and ME was often about little tributes to other source material and that's all well and good, no complaints on that.  But, then don't claim it is their work, their "art" and that it must not be touched or that it's their intellectual property and it's wrong to meddle with their IP.  It's the IP of others folded into their IP.  But none of these people are all concerned about the use of someone else's IP that was meddled with to make this game's ending.  I see that as incredibly funny and sad at the same time.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[Blueprotoss]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

It´s mutual...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

Applepie_Svk wrote... 

What else did you expect ? It´s like at start of this thread where some of your opponets accused you from being selfish, despite that their behavior and conversation was selfish.

You could look for a reasonable middle ground instead of flipping the table in anger when you Bioware didn't please you out of millions of people.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote... 

you don't know if the relays didn't kill anyone Pre-EC even though they exploded, and the lore and thanks to Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or Severely damage it will go Supernova

How is that when the other Realys released their energy then imploded while this happened pre-EC and EC.

doesn't matter if it imploded or exploded, the lore and Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or severely damaged/ ruptured it will go Supernova


@Seival so the EC was an abomination then?

[Seival]

Fiannawolf wrote...

So by your logic the EC is an abomination b/c it alterned and added it stuff to the vanilla ending....

Explanations are not an abomination.

If you failed to understand the original endings, it's your own problem.

Modifié par Seival, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:08 .

[Blueprotoss]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This exactly.  And it's so funny how with the EC they did go even more Babylon5 all over the thing with more chaos and order and the refusal speech.  It's why I cannot take it seriously whenever someone says "it's their work, they shouldn't change it."  Well, BSG, Terminator, B5, Deus ex, Matrix, and even the Princess Bride (stargazer homage to the bedtime story) all called and they'd like their endings back. 

Don't misunderstand me, I get it that stories get influences from all over and ME was often about little tributes to other source material and that's all well and good, no complaints on that.  But, then don't claim it is their work, their "art" and that it must not be touched or that it's their intellectual property and it's wrong to meddle with their IP.  It's the IP of others folded into their IP.  But none of these people are all concerned about the use of someone else's IP that was meddled with to make this game's ending.  I see that as incredibly funny and sad at the same time.

Agreed.  Bioware stound their ground because it is their story, but since some people have to bash ME3 based on Deus Ex then Deus Ex should be bashed by Terminator, Bablyon 5, and the Matrix to be fair.

[Fiannawolf]

Sei, I do understand the Endings, both vanilla and EC. They are all illogical within series lore. B/C unlike Weeks and the other people who made Rannoch and Genophage so much win, the ball was dropped badly at the last second. You cant go All DE Human Rev in the last 10 mins. Thats not the type of Sci fi that ME is. Its a hybrid of B5 get everyone together vs Shadows/Vorlons and some Star Trek explore new worlds thrown in.

Edit:

Funny how you wouldnt have "Explanations" in the form of the EC without all the fans who were dissapointed.....fine...Ill use Explanations instead of additional alterations to the ending instead. Its the same darned thing.

Modifié par Fiannawolf, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote... 

you don't know if the relays didn't kill anyone Pre-EC even though they exploded, and the lore and thanks to Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or Severely damage it will go Supernova

How is that when the other Realys released their energy then imploded while this happened pre-EC and EC.

doesn't matter if it imploded or exploded, the lore and Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or severely damaged/ ruptured it will go Supernova

Arrival went Supernova just like a propane tank would do since all of the energy was released all at once like a bomb.  If the Arrival Relay wasn't by that aseroid then it wouldn't hav exploded, but any type of explosive done correctly could also cause any Relay to go Supernova.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote... 

you don't know if the relays didn't kill anyone Pre-EC even though they exploded, and the lore and thanks to Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or Severely damage it will go Supernova

How is that when the other Realys released their energy then imploded while this happened pre-EC and EC.

doesn't matter if it imploded or exploded, the lore and Arrival states that if a Relay is destroyed or severely damaged/ ruptured it will go Supernova

Arrival went Supernova just like a propane tank would do since all of the energy was released all at once like a bomb.  If the Arrival Relay wasn't by that aseroid then it wouldn't hav exploded, but any type of explosive done correctly could also cause any Relay to go Supernova.

like I said it doesn't matter what causes the destruction or rupture, if it happens it will go supernova which is what happened Pre-EC and it damaged their lore post-EC

[Seival]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Sei, I do understand the Endings, both vanilla and EC. They are all illogical within series lore. B/C unlike Weeks and the other people who made Rannoch and Genophage so much win, the ball was dropped badly at the last second. You cant go All DE Human Rev in the last 10 mins. Thats not the type of Sci fi that ME is. Its a hybrid of B5 get everyone together vs Shadows/Vorlons and some Star Trek explore new worlds thrown in.

Please, don't compare sci-fi ME and DE:HR with political/adventure movies like B5 and ST. Those are completely different types of stories.

If you like political/adventure stories, go and play ST Online or BG Online. Just please, stop asking BioWare to ruin their own story.

Modifié par Seival, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:21 .

[AlanC9]

Seival wrote...

If you failed to understand the original endings, it's your own problem.

I wouldn't go that far.  While people took some silly ideas away from the endings, it's mostly Bio's fault for letting them do it.

[Blueprotoss]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Sei, I do understand the Endings, both vanilla and EC. They are all illogical within series lore. B/C unlike Weeks and the other people who made Rannoch and Genophage so much win, the ball was dropped badly at the last second. You cant go All DE Human Rev in the last 10 mins. Thats not the type of Sci fi that ME is. Its a hybrid of B5 get everyone together vs Shadows/Vorlons and some Star Trek explore new worlds thrown in.

ME is just as sci-fi as Star Trek, Blade Runner, Bablyon 5, Terminator, and the Matrix while they also end up being made before the 1st installment of Deus Ex.  You should strict to one stance instead of shifting around.

Fiannawolf wrote... 

Funny how you wouldnt have "Explanations" in the form of the EC without all the fans who were dissapointed.....fine...Ill use Explanations instead of additional alterations to the ending instead. Its the same darned thing.

Yet the EC was extensions that explained the endings in a direct fashion.

[I am disappoint]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

In your opinion. 

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Arrival went Supernova just like a propane tank would do since all of the energy was released all at once like a bomb.  If the Arrival Relay wasn't by that aseroid then it wouldn't hav exploded, but any type of explosive done correctly could also cause any Relay to go Supernova.

like I said it doesn't matter what causes the destruction or rupture, if it happens it will go supernova which is what happened Pre-EC and it damaged their lore post-EC

Actually it does matter how something explodes/implodes especially when something is under a certain about of pressure.  Btw C4 can be set on fire and not explode.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:24 .

[Xamufam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This exactly.  And it's so funny how with the EC they did go even more Babylon5 all over the thing with more chaos and order and the refusal speech.  It's why I cannot take it seriously whenever someone says "it's their work, they shouldn't change it."  Well, BSG, Terminator, B5, Deus ex, Matrix, and even the Princess Bride (stargazer homage to the bedtime story) all called and they'd like their endings back. 

Don't misunderstand me, I get it that stories get influences from all over and ME was often about little tributes to other source material and that's all well and good, no complaints on that.  But, then don't claim it is their work, their "art" and that it must not be touched or that it's their intellectual property and it's wrong to meddle with their IP.  It's the IP of others folded into their IP.  But none of these people are all concerned about the use of someone else's IP that was meddled with to make this game's ending.  I see that as incredibly funny and sad at the same time.

Agreed.  Bioware stound their ground because it is their story, but since some people have to bash ME3 based on Deus Ex then Deus Ex should be bashed by Terminator, Bablyon 5, and the Matrix to be fair.

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url



The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

[Blueprotoss]

I am disappoint wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

In your opinion. 

There's a large amount of ignorance coming from you and its not an opinion.

[I am disappoint]

Blueprotoss wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

In your opinion. 

There's a large amount of ignorance coming from you and its not an opinion.

In your opinion.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

In your opinion. 

There's a large amount of ignorance coming from you and its not an opinion.

that sounds like an insult BP

[Fiannawolf]

*shakes head* We agree to dissagree Sei, im glad your happy in your control ending. Happy trails to you but Ive been a bioware fan since BG 1. I wouldnt be here if I didnt care about ME content.

All stories are influenced by one another. Control is very Dune in its results...read the Dune series by Frank herbert esp God Emporer of Dune. You will understand why I see control in that fashion if you do take the time to look.

B5 was all about taking on Elder/Apex races millions or billions of years older and it pulled it off better then ME3 did. Watch that show its great.

Star Trek makes you want to see whats in space. ME1 and 2 brought that to the forefront. Its not a bad thing to be influenced by great sci fi. Thats all I can say Sei, I hope you find what your looking for in the DLCs. I hope I find what Im looking for too.

In my eyes the EC altered and retconed the endings and added to them. Some aspects were good emotionally. Beam goodbye and the speeches but its not to the level of Bioware's older reveals IE KOTOR, Jade Empire ect. That dissapoints me greatly.

[Seival]

Troxa wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This exactly.  And it's so funny how with the EC they did go even more Babylon5 all over the thing with more chaos and order and the refusal speech.  It's why I cannot take it seriously whenever someone says "it's their work, they shouldn't change it."  Well, BSG, Terminator, B5, Deus ex, Matrix, and even the Princess Bride (stargazer homage to the bedtime story) all called and they'd like their endings back. 

Don't misunderstand me, I get it that stories get influences from all over and ME was often about little tributes to other source material and that's all well and good, no complaints on that.  But, then don't claim it is their work, their "art" and that it must not be touched or that it's their intellectual property and it's wrong to meddle with their IP.  It's the IP of others folded into their IP.  But none of these people are all concerned about the use of someone else's IP that was meddled with to make this game's ending.  I see that as incredibly funny and sad at the same time.

Agreed.  Bioware stound their ground because it is their story, but since some people have to bash ME3 based on Deus Ex then Deus Ex should be bashed by Terminator, Bablyon 5, and the Matrix to be fair.

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url



The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

Yes, the story belongs to the player. But it doesn't gives player the right to demand any changes. If you don't like the story - go away. And if you like it - stay and enjoy. It's as simple as that.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Seival wrote...

Yes, the story belongs to the player. But it doesn't gives player the right to demand any changes. If you don't like the story - go away. And if you like it - stay and enjoy. It's as simple as that.

Actually, as paying customers we can demand whatever we want. It's only a question of Bioware having the right to ignore it.  

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Blueprotoss]

Troxa wrote...

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url

The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

ME never belonged to the player in the way you think because Neverwinter is the game that you're thinking about.  Neverwinter is a whole different animal because you can literally created your own game within the Campaign editing tools that they give you.  I would like to add that most RPGs don't give the player control over the narrative even in Bethesda games.  Btw your essay is opinion not fact.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[3DandBeyond]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

It´s mutual...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

Applepie_Svk wrote... 

What else did you expect ? It´s like at start of this thread where some of your opponets accused you from being selfish, despite that their behavior and conversation was selfish.

You could look for a reasonable middle ground instead of flipping the table in anger when you Bioware didn't please you out of millions of people.

Apparently you have also failed to understand what Applepie is talking about.  My suggestion here has always been to find a way that would allow those who like the EC as is to keep what they now have, but for those that don't to add to what is now there-optional content.  I have suggested ways to do this and have also suggested that those that are unhappy here would pay for this compromise from BW.  We compromise by paying, they by addressing one way to at least make the game and an ending playable for us.  I've asked for nothing from those that claim to like what they now have-in what I think is an unselfish stance, I did not want to take anything away from them.

For making suggestions and merely asking BW to take another look at all of this and in trying to get the tone a bit less acidic, I've been called all kinds of names.  This is in explanation to you and not because I'm saying, "poor me."  I've been called selfish many times for making suggestions and for telling BW that my goal is to help them continue making a profit from this series, to help make DLC more popular and desirable for many that right now don't have any interest, to bring back a huge crowd of people to make more ME and ME type games possible, and to tone down the hatred and the noise.  I've expressed the real love I've had for these games and for BW for making them.  For all of this, I've been called all the same old buzz words meant to enflame-hater, whiner, blah, blah, blah.

I've been told (seriously) that this suggestion would be wrong because too many people would want it-and that's bad, how?

I've been told that Bioware doesn't take requests-this from someone who currently has a poll up and an almost month old thread that s/he keeps bumping for attention, where s/he is requesting things from BW related to the endings, mostly cerberus fights in all.

It's been stated that I am stupid, don't understand the endings if I don't like them, and that I don't understand what real life is all about.  I've been told that I don't understand what WWII was about, though several members of my family fought in it.  I've been told that I don't understand real war, though I have personally known of young people (who could be my children) who have sacrificed much or all in real war.  I've been told that I can't make tough choices and when I've given an example of where I have made such tough choices I've been accused of lying, insulted, and had my example called a fake.  

I have experienced many things in my life (as have many others so I am not unique) and yet, I can honestly say I have not experienced such repeated hatred before (that some try to claim is not hatred) and this over a game.  And over suggestions for things that are not nasty items.  These people act as if I'm suggesting some horrible acts be committed at the end, when what I'm saying is that for many of us the endings require we commit what in our opinions are those horrible acts.  We are asking for something a bit kinder and satisfying and authentic-even with real consequences.  We are asking for something that affirms what we see as a realistic version of life worth living, diversity, unity, and redemption.  We aren't asking for anything hateful, but hate is being thrown around.

I've hoped that all people could tone down the nastiness a bit and for expressing things like love and life and great characters and all, I get responses that seem to indicate personalities that I think are from another planet.  I can't be nice about this.  It's like if I say I really love babies and I'm getting told I'm an idiot because only dead babies are great.  That is what this all feels like.  I can't relate to people that call me selfish when I've expressed myself otherwise, and when they come here and are the best examples of selfishness I've ever seen.  I can't relate to people that think that death is artistic and that tell me I don't understand the real world or war because in saying that I think they are proving that they are the ones that don't understand it.

In light of this, all I can do is repeat my wishes and my hopes and determine that things can still change for the better.  The best qualities in people are brought to the surface when they adhere to a willingness to compromise and shift their positions ever so slightly.  It's the only way we can get beyond any certain point and the only way we can learn to work together.  To not do so, diminishes us all. 

[BSpud]

I liked it when, before the EC, Seival desperately wanted us to believe that the Normandy jungle planet crash was a result of a mass relay flight test conducted after the reaper war. Just wanted to reminisce aloud on that bit of whimsy. It's a memory I will always treasure, kinda like that time I was walking through downtown at 2am and watched a man exit a bar and proceed to barf on the sidewalk. Mesmerizing. Anyway, carry on.

[AresKeith]

Seival why are you acting so hateful towrds us when what were suggesting isn't an Ending DLC, than it would done through Pre-ending DLCs that wouldn't effect your gameplay or the ending that you chose. And we would have to work harder than the rest to achieve this

[Seival]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, the story belongs to the player. But it doesn't gives player the right to demand any changes. If you don't like the story - go away. And if you like it - stay and enjoy. It's as simple as that.

Actually, as paying customers we can demand whatever we want. It's only a question of Bioware having the right to ignore it.  

You paid for the writers' work, not for a mandate to override something. To have such a mandate you have to work in BioWare or EA as a writers' team lead or a producer.