6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Xamufam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url

The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

ME never belonged to the player in the way you think because Neverwinter is the game that you're thinking about.  Neverwinter is a whole different animal because you can literally created your own game within the Campaign editing tools that they give you.  I would like to add that most RPGs don't give the player control over the narrative even in Bethesda games.  Btw your essay is opinion not fact.

the guy in the vid is clearly talking about Mass Effect

[Blueprotoss]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Apparently you have also failed to understand what Applepie is talking about.  My suggestion here has always been to find a way that would allow those who like the EC as is to keep what they now have, but for those that don't to add to what is now there-optional content.  I have suggested ways to do this and have also suggested that those that are unhappy here would pay for this compromise from BW.  We compromise by paying, they by addressing one way to at least make the game and an ending playable for us.  I've asked for nothing from those that claim to like what they now have-in what I think is an unselfish stance, I did not want to take anything away from them.

There's a difference between demands and sugestions.  Applepie isn't open to sggestions.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

For making suggestions and merely asking BW to take another look at all of this and in trying to get the tone a bit less acidic, I've been called all kinds of names.  This is in explanation to you and not because I'm saying, "poor me."  I've been called selfish many times for making suggestions and for telling BW that my goal is to help them continue making a profit from this series, to help make DLC more popular and desirable for many that right now don't have any interest, to bring back a huge crowd of people to make more ME and ME type games possible, and to tone down the hatred and the noise.  I've expressed the real love I've had for these games and for BW for making them.  For all of this, I've been called all the same old buzz words meant to enflame-hater, whiner, blah, blah, blah.

Suggestions can be made and questions can be asked, but once the demands appear then the middle ground can't be reached.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

I've been told (seriously) that this suggestion would be wrong because too many people would want it-and that's bad, how?

I've been told that Bioware doesn't take requests-this from someone who currently has a poll up and an almost month old thread that s/he keeps bumping for attention, where s/he is requesting things from BW related to the endings, mostly cerberus fights in all.

It's been stated that I am stupid, don't understand the endings if I don't like them, and that I don't understand what real life is all about.  I've been told that I don't understand what WWII was about, though several members of my family fought in it.  I've been told that I don't understand real war, though I have personally known of young people (who could be my children) who have sacrificed much or all in real war.  I've been told that I can't make tough choices and when I've given an example of where I have made such tough choices I've been accused of lying, insulted, and had my example called a fake.  

I have experienced many things in my life (as have many others so I am not unique) and yet, I can honestly say I have not experienced such repeated hatred before (that some try to claim is not hatred) and this over a game.  And over suggestions for things that are not nasty items.  These people act as if I'm suggesting some horrible acts be committed at the end, when what I'm saying is that for many of us the endings require we commit what in our opinions are those horrible acts.  We are asking for something a bit kinder and satisfying and authentic-even with real consequences.  We are asking for something that affirms what we see as a realistic version of life worth living, diversity, unity, and redemption.  We aren't asking for anything hateful, but hate is being thrown around.

I've hoped that all people could tone down the nastiness a bit and for expressing things like love and life and great characters and all, I get responses that seem to indicate personalities that I think are from another planet.  I can't be nice about this.  It's like if I say I really love babies and I'm getting told I'm an idiot because only dead babies are great.  That is what this all feels like.  I can't relate to people that call me selfish when I've expressed myself otherwise, and when they come here and are the best examples of selfishness I've ever seen.  I can't relate to people that think that death is artistic and that tell me I don't understand the real world or war because in saying that I think they are proving that they are the ones that don't understand it.

Agreed.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

In light of this, all I can do is repeat my wishes and my hopes and determine that things can still change for the better.  The best qualities in people are brought to the surface when they adhere to a willingness to compromise and shift their positions ever so slightly.  It's the only way we can get beyond any certain point and the only way we can learn to work together.  To not do so, diminishes us all.

There's no real problems here especially when you are willing to conpromise.

[Blueprotoss]

Troxa wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url

The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

ME never belonged to the player in the way you think because Neverwinter is the game that you're thinking about.  Neverwinter is a whole different animal because you can literally created your own game within the Campaign editing tools that they give you.  I would like to add that most RPGs don't give the player control over the narrative even in Bethesda games.  Btw your essay is opinion not fact.

the guy in the vid is clearly talking about Mass Effect

Yet ME isn't Neverwinter and most RPGs even when they're done by Betheseda can't match Neverwinter on the level of player control.  Its not a surprise to see Bioware quotes being taken out of context on BSN.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival why are you acting so hateful towrds us when what were suggesting isn't an Ending DLC, than it would done through Pre-ending DLCs that wouldn't effect your gameplay or the ending that you chose. And we would have to work harder than the rest to achieve this

Its not because of you personally while its based on the ignorance and rage thats shown to him from other people.  Most of the atmosphere is toxic on the Internet whether someone is in the wrong or in the right.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:45 .

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Great posts here again. And so many of you hit the nail right on the head. Zan51 aptly describes processes she knows better than most that bear out the fact an artist's work if meant to be publicly consumed (and when isn't it) is very much subject to the whims quite often of a fickle consumer. Many works are altered before the fact and not always willingly by their creator. The issue with this is that so many people have bought into this idea that art once created is not to be fooled around with and never is if it is truly art. This is a fallacy because there are very few instances where art or a creation is not altered if meant to be consumed by others. It may be that sometimes a particular work is not altered but its popularity often determines whether its creator will keep making the same type of thing or if the next creation will be more of a fan favorite. You can't buy paint if you adhere to the mindset that what you paint is for you.

There's also another thing that swirls around here that hits on the idea that ME3 is solely BW's vision of where ME was meant to go and that is so full of holes. The endings are derivative-taken at times in whole or in part from other works. This would be like claiming Bob's Mona Lisa is his unassailable work of art when it's a paint by numbers version of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa.

I'm not at all claiming that anything that derives influence or substance from other sources is necessarily bad but it's not accurate to state that this work is somehow untouchable because it's their vision nor because art is just not touched because of fan input. Neither is accurate.

Yes, adding to something is changing it-there's no denying it, but what I'm suggesting here is something similar to what happens all the time in the publishing world or what has happened with printed books. The printed versions of books go through sometimes several editions which can include whole rewrites of certain sections-first editions are highly prized generally, but they can feature error, omissions, and even can be re-edited for clarity and other things. The author may rewrite a section based on fan input (this part does not work well). So, sometimes the fifth edition is greatly changed from the first or even the second, but the person that has the first edition may be very happy with the version they got for many reasons. In an ebook world, you can buy an ebook and if it's changed in a later editing or because of bad formatting or some such and you re-download it from the cloud (Amazon, Apple, Barnes and Noble, Sony, Kobi, or whatever), you will get the latest edition and not the earlier one.

The point of all this is that I'm suggesting that no one be forced to have the game they like added to, altered, changed, or destroyed if that's how they view it in order to make a big segment of ME's fans a little bit happier. I don't think that irreparably damages them at all.

Retcons have happened in major and minor ways and resulted in changes within the EC from what was in the original endings. To say otherwise is to really be stuck on some odd version of what change means.

Refuse is not a bug fix, the state of the relays is an obvious rewrite from continual twitter retconning, the Normandy crash scene is as well (and still has no explanation for how the teammates at the FOB got on board or how they even got to the FOB in the first place). The conduit evacuation and Joker running away scenes were additions but that means they were changes. The teammate evacuation scene was actually all but written from the joking speculation of fans in the "Yes, We're Listening" thread. This was something repeatedly stated was probably what happened, but what people thought was laughable if it did.

In fact, much of what was re-written or added to in the EC was from joking speculation of fans. Either they were psychic, interpreted everything correctly, or their ideas were used in the EC-ideas that they hoped would not be used. Statements saying that the EC is not a retcon merely indicate to me a misunderstanding of content shown in the original endings. In fact the relay status is not even a fully well-done retcon. In destroy at the end there is a scene of a truly messed up relay, presumably the Charon relay, as well as a totally messed up Citadel. The relay specifically should have dire consequences for the Sol system in that the Desperate Measures codex still exists and says a rupture (and tell me that relay is not ruptured) of a relay will ruin terrestrial worlds in a system. Earth should be utterly and totally screwed. The relay explosions were mostly retconned, but that one relay has real problems and truly creates a huge hole.

Again this though is water under the bridge. Any suggestion to add things onto the endings is a change, but it is being suggested as a non-destructive one, that need not alter anything for those that don't want it. But the point also is as another person said, that the EC was actually a destructive change-meaning the EC must be played or uninstalled if you don't want it. The additional DLC I'm suggesting could be created as optional content that you could play in one game and then decide not to play in another, even if you buy it.

Again: I'm glad BioWare don't take people like you seriously.

Even optional content that alters the original story is an abomination.

Did you not download the DLC's......... Or did you load the DLC's and now wish you hadn't? And if you have, will you now resolve not to download any more DLC's that do anything to the ending............. and remove all DLC's that you may have downloaded to retain the vanilla ending of ME3?

[Dragoonlordz]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

It´s mutual...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

Applepie_Svk wrote... 

What else did you expect ? It´s like at start of this thread where some of your opponets accused you from being selfish, despite that their behavior and conversation was selfish.

You could look for a reasonable middle ground instead of flipping the table in anger when you Bioware didn't please you out of millions of people.

Lets not forget the only actual argument they are using is "Put it in DLC, because all DLC is optional". Its the only thing they have to go on after 122 pages. The only thing they said that they have been relying on and can be used with everything.

"I want a completely new 1/3rd content of the game made to my specifications (despite the game being mass produced product)... Hey Bioware put it in DLC because DLC is optional and because it's optional noone has the right to say they should not make it! trololo"... It's nonsense. An excuse to hide behind for every stupid idea under the sun.

They think the fact that all DLC is optional means it is their get out of jail free card that noone can dislike the time and money going into making a DLC that others do not want. These people think noone has right to say do not make it despite having explained valid reasons as to why should not happen by many people whether conflicting desires for what everyone wants plus time and money invested in one thing prevents that time and money invested into another (only certain amount of time between each new game at which point DLC stops for the previous).

Plus on top of fact this is not a pick'n mix where every tom, dick and harry gets everything they want just because said "Put it in DLC", games are a mass produced product not a individual custom user specification product. By all means they can say what they want but they are mistaken if they think adding the words "optional DLC" which in reality just means DLC since all DLC is optional in first place akin to I want a 'dry' drought or a 'wet' raindrop, means they should get every single thing they want.

The TL:DR of this entire thread is...

"I want refuse equals victory, I want reunion, I want boss fight, I want dinosaurs, I want ponies, I want magical pixies to fly in and beat the Reapers. Produce DLC for it Bioware because DLC is 'optional'. Oh and even if you give us most of these things, then screw you still because no DLC you make even if others asked for it in this very same thread matters since the only ending actually care about is refuse equals win."

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[Xamufam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Biware said it' the players story before me 2 came out

www.youtube.com/watch  from 3:35

Page 47
www.google.se/url

The story belongs to the player, not the writer. The writer builds
the sandbox but we leave it up to the player to figure out how they want to
experience their own fun. This is both the boon and the bane of BioWare interactive
storytelling, because it means that there is room for absurdity in the
narrative with no guarantee each player will have an optimum story experience.

ME never belonged to the player in the way you think because Neverwinter is the game that you're thinking about.  Neverwinter is a whole different animal because you can literally created your own game within the Campaign editing tools that they give you.  I would like to add that most RPGs don't give the player control over the narrative even in Bethesda games.  Btw your essay is opinion not fact.

the guy in the vid is clearly talking about Mass Effect

Yet ME isn't Neverwinter and most RPGs even when they're done by Betheseda can't match Neverwinter on the level of player control.  Its not a surprise to see Bioware quotes being taken out of context on BSN.

WTF are talking about i didn't even mention neverwinter night I mentioned mass effect.

Read the document

One
of the major features of ME2 was the ability to import your character from ME1.
The whole purpose of this feature was to make your ME experience personal. It’s your story. We
and the fans wanted choice to matter and consequence be meaningful, so having choice
matter between titles met that expectation and was a successful feature.

Modifié par Troxa, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Seival wrote...

You paid for the writers' work, not for a mandate to override something. To have such a mandate you have to work in BioWare or EA as a writers' team lead or a producer.

No, to have a mandate I need to execute authority over the writer in question. Which I do, since I'm paying their salary, along with every other consumer.

It's straightforward: products which do not sell are not made. EA employs Bioware in order to generate a profit, which requires consumers. No consumers = no money = no product.

The only question is whether the people here collectively exert enough influence to force Bioware into changing the ending. By expressing their desire to pay for Shepard's survival, they're merely expressing a demand for a certain kind of product, which EA is free to ignore or listen.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

Sei, I do understand the Endings, both vanilla and EC. They are all illogical within series lore. B/C unlike Weeks and the other people who made Rannoch and Genophage so much win, the ball was dropped badly at the last second. You cant go All DE Human Rev in the last 10 mins. Thats not the type of Sci fi that ME is. Its a hybrid of B5 get everyone together vs Shadows/Vorlons and some Star Trek explore new worlds thrown in.

Please, don't compare sci-fi ME and DE:HR with political/adventure movies like B5 and ST. Those are completely different types of stories.

If you like political/adventure stories, go and play ST Online or BG Online. Just please, stop asking BioWare to ruin their own story.

You have completely missed a lot of what is in the games and endings if you can make statements like these.  In the end, the whole chaos/order stuff is from B5.  Shepard's refusal speech echoes Sheridan's refusal of the 2 factions of chaos and order in the B5 scenes.  Even much of the build up to the reapers echoes B5 and the shadows.  The migrant fleet and the geth and quarian dilemma is taken from BSG.  The devs really had a lot of influences throughout the games but they tried to put too many of them together to make the ending something intellectual.

Sheridan at the end with Order and Chaos has two warring factions representing each position that are trying to use people as pawns in the fight.  The idea is that each side believes there is no middle ground and that no one would stand up and do the right thing.  It's about authoritarianism vs. free will-rather like a post control or post synthesis galaxy vs. a post-destroy one.  It also becomes a sort of mental battle with glowing beings asking "who are you?" and "what do you want?"  The idea was that the Vorlons and Shadow saw themselves as the parents and the other lesser races as children-again, very much like what the kid sees the relationship as being.  People are ignorant children that cannot be allowed to do things on their own-this is very much what B5 shows.

There are all kinds of infused themes from other games and series, including Star Trek (the writer of The Measure of a Man) even has spoken out about some of the issues within ME3.  That was really a theme played out with Legion and EDI in ME3-what it means to be alive for a synthetic being.  Do we tell them and define them as alive or do they?  Data was called "it" by the antagonist in Measure of a Man until the end.

The problem is the endings tried to be too many things that the game wasn't.  It tried to put too many themes from other sources all together in a pile when it needed one resounding coherent set of themes that had been playing out in all the ME stories brought together.

I'm sorry if you don't understand all of the places the devs borrowed from-Lovecraft and even Back to the Future, Star Wars, Star Trek, B5, BSG, Terminator, Blade Runner, the Princess Bride, and so on.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival why are you acting so hateful towrds us when what were suggesting isn't an Ending DLC, than it would done through Pre-ending DLCs that wouldn't effect your gameplay or the ending that you chose. And we would have to work harder than the rest to achieve this

Its not because of you personally while its based on the ignorance and rage thats shown to him from other people.  Most of the atmosphere is toxic on the Internet whether someone is in the wrong or in the right.

which happened because of a couple people who came in here doesn't understand the suggestion of this thread, we not demanding anything or telling Bioware to take away the endings or make an Ending DLC. Its suggesting that they do this through pre-ending DLC and make us acquire more War Assets and a higher EMS level to gain this add-on to the current endings

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

So by your logic the EC is an abomination b/c it alterned and added it stuff to the vanilla ending....

Explanations are not an abomination.

If you failed to understand the original endings, it's your own problem.

Wait. You've just confused me...... and that's not easy to do. you have just contradicted yourself. Here are the two quotes side by side.

Seival wrote...

Even optional content that alters the original story is an abomination.

and

Seival wrote...

Explanations are not an abomination.

I've snipped a bit but nothing that does not impact from the main points on both your posts. Here's the problem

The ECDLC is optional content that alters origninal story, which I don't think you like.

But the ECDLC does clarify and plug a few plot holes, which I think you do like.

So which is it? Do you hate it for being optional content that changes the ending or like it for the clarity it provides?

And before you say it. Yes, BW did change the ending. That clarity you like wasn't there before. BW had to add in extra bits and those additions were changes to the original story. Therefore you can see why I'm puzzled as to how you have this love/hate thing going with the ECDLC.

Modifié par Redbelle, 09 septembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Seival wrote...

You paid for the writers' work, not for a mandate to override something. To have such a mandate you have to work in BioWare or EA as a writers' team lead or a producer.

No, to have a mandate I need to execute authority over the writer in question. Which I do, since I'm paying their salary, along with every other consumer.

It's straightforward: products which do not sell are not made. EA employs Bioware in order to generate a profit, which requires consumers.The only question is whether the people here collectively exert enough influence to force Bioware into changing the ending. By expressing their desire to pay for Shepard's survival, they're merely expressing a demand for a certain kind of product, which EA is free to ignore or listen.

You do not get how products are made. This was not a product made to your specification for your measly $40-$60, it was mass produced. I make mass produced products and user specification ones. Games are not user specification they are mass produced. Mass produced products are the type of product you get what everyone else gets. User specification type products you get what you want despite what everyone else gets and costs a hell of a lot more than $10 more like 30x the price. My mass produced products cost around £5 because everyone gets the same, my user specified products cost over £150. Why does it cost so much? Because time spent making something for you is time taken away from producing another product that caters to more than just an individual or small group.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

Troxa wrote...

WTF are talking about i didn't even mention neverwinter night I mentioned mass effect.

You didn't mention Neverwinter but you want ME to be similar to Neverwinter.

Troxa wrote... 

One
of the major features of ME2 was the ability to import your character from ME1.
The whole purpose of this feature was to make your ME experience personal. It’s your story. We
and the fans wanted choice to matter and consequence be meaningful, so having choice
matter between titles met that expectation and was a successful feature.

Imports isn't anything new especially when some of the Eastern RPG series have been doing that since the start of the PS2.  Choice is in every game and its not confined to RPGs.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Seival wrote...

You paid for the writers' work, not for a mandate to override something. To have such a mandate you have to work in BioWare or EA as a writers' team lead or a producer.

No, to have a mandate I need to execute authority over the writer in question. Which I do, since I'm paying their salary, along with every other consumer.

It's straightforward: products which do not sell are not made. EA employs Bioware in order to generate a profit, which requires consumers.The only question is whether the people here collectively exert enough influence to force Bioware into changing the ending. By expressing their desire to pay for Shepard's survival, they're merely expressing a demand for a certain kind of product, which EA is free to ignore or listen.

You do not get how products are made. This was not a product made to your specification for your measly $40-$60, it was mass produced. I make mass produced products and user specification ones. Games are not user specification they are mass produced.

which is why we made the extra suggestion that it be done by pre-ending DLCs, that would acquire us to work harder to gain it and it wouldn't affect anything that you have

[Seival]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

It´s mutual...

Yet the ignorance is coming from you.

Applepie_Svk wrote... 

What else did you expect ? It´s like at start of this thread where some of your opponets accused you from being selfish, despite that their behavior and conversation was selfish.

You could look for a reasonable middle ground instead of flipping the table in anger when you Bioware didn't please you out of millions of people.

Lets not forget the only actual argument they are using is "Put it in DLC, because all DLC is optional". Its the only thing they have to go on after 122 pages. The only thing they said that they have been relying on and can be used with everything.

"I want a completely new 1/3rd content of the game made to my specifications (despite the game being mass produced product)... Hey Bioware put it in DLC because DLC is optional and because it's optional noone has the right to say they should not make it! trololo"... It's nonsense. An excuse to hide behind for every stupid idea under the sun.

They think the fact that all DLC is optional means it is their get out of jail free card that noone can dislike the time and money going into making a DLC that others do not want. These people think noone has right to say do not make it despite having explained valid reasons as to why should not happen by many people whether conflicting desires for what everyone wants plus time and money invested in one thing prevents that time and money invested into another (only certain amount of time between each new game at which point DLC stops for the previous).

Plus on top of fact this is not a pick'n mix where every tom, dick and harry gets everything they want just because said "Put it in DLC", games are a mass produced product not a individual custom user specification product. By all means they can say what they want but they are mistaken if they think adding the words "optional DLC" which in reality just means DLC since all DLC is optional in first place akin to I want a 'dry' drought or a 'wet' riandrop, means they should get every single thing they want.

The TL:DR of this entire thread is...

"I want refuse equals victory, I want reunion, I want boss fight, I want dinosaurs, I want ponies, I want magical pixies to fly in and beat the Reapers. Produce DLC for it Bioware because DLC is 'optional'. Oh and even if you give us most of these things, then screw you still because no DLC you make even if others asked for it in this very same thread matters since the only ending actually care about is refuse equals win."

+1

BioWare promised they will support ME3 only for 1 year after the release. They don't have much time. And they will never spend their time for some "I want optional ponies DLC" nonsence even if they had time for that. All haters should understand that.

Modifié par Seival, 09 septembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival why are you acting so hateful towrds us when what were suggesting isn't an Ending DLC, than it would done through Pre-ending DLCs that wouldn't effect your gameplay or the ending that you chose. And we would have to work harder than the rest to achieve this

Its not because of you personally while its based on the ignorance and rage thats shown to him from other people.  Most of the atmosphere is toxic on the Internet whether someone is in the wrong or in the right.

which happened because of a couple people who came in here doesn't understand the suggestion of this thread, we not demanding anything or telling Bioware to take away the endings or make an Ending DLC. Its suggesting that they do this through pre-ending DLC and make us acquire more War Assets and a higher EMS level to gain this add-on to the current endings

I know that you and 3D aren't being demanding here, but that doesn't prevent the few on either side from not demanding things.

[Xamufam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Download this & read it they are talking about mass effect

www.google.se/url

watch these aswell

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

Seival wrote...

Again: I'm glad BioWare don't take people like you seriously.

Even optional content that alters the original story is an abomination.

Did you not download the DLC's......... Or did you load the DLC's and now wish you hadn't? And if you have, will you now resolve not to download any more DLC's that do anything to the ending............. and remove all DLC's that you may have downloaded to retain the vanilla ending of ME3?

Redbelle, it's useless. 

Seival has an issue with other people making suggestions or requests.  S/he has created his/her own threads requesting BW add content to the story, and has the EC, and has the DLC as well.  I can't say why then all that is not an abomination since it alters the original story, but other suggestions are abominations.

This all somehow threatens Seival and all I can think is s/he is afraid that BW will like someone else better.  I don't want to be insulting here, but there's just not a lot of kind thought contained within his/her posts.

Seival believes that s/he is allowed to suggest things to alter content, because s/he likes the EC endings, but no one else is allowed to.  Even in Seival's own thread others have said they would like it better if some idea was a bit different and Seival tells them they would be ruining the balance somehow-but all of his/her proposed additions (a lot of them for about 5 hours each) would involve Cerberus as the enemy.  I don't see that as balanced.  Others have complained that it would ruin the endings for them and Seival disagrees.  I'd prefer some other compromise come from Seival, but s/he can't give up anything even when it means s/he wouldn't have to give up a thing at all. 

I don't get why this person is so hostile.

[Redbelle]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Seival wrote...

You paid for the writers' work, not for a mandate to override something. To have such a mandate you have to work in BioWare or EA as a writers' team lead or a producer.

No, to have a mandate I need to execute authority over the writer in question. Which I do, since I'm paying their salary, along with every other consumer.

It's straightforward: products which do not sell are not made. EA employs Bioware in order to generate a profit, which requires consumers. No consumers = no money = no product.

The only question is whether the people here collectively exert enough influence to force Bioware into changing the ending. By expressing their desire to pay for Shepard's survival, they're merely expressing a demand for a certain kind of product, which EA is free to ignore or listen.

I think we're forgetting that alot of ME3's were pre-ordered. Therefore, no one really had much chance to dive into reviews of any kind before they came face to face with what sparked this whole debate off. Unless anyone read the advanced reviews............. um, were there any advanced reviews? And can we saw Colin Moriarty off the official advanced review list cause his opinions scare me that playing alot of games will make me a bit lala.

I know we can return the product. But lets not forget a few things.

Some people did return the product. Some however couldn't. (sniff, cause although pc versions are awesome they have little to no resale value where I live. Not that I would return it. I have a game libary and the ME section is all accounted for).

Others did not return the product because of a movement that said we should let BW know what we think was so fundamentally flawed with the ending that we're going the extra mile and sending cupcakes about it! (Eat that Mario! No wait don't, your on a toadstool diet. Well we love Shepard more than we love you, but you'll alway be my SNES favourite).

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival why are you acting so hateful towrds us when what were suggesting isn't an Ending DLC, than it would done through Pre-ending DLCs that wouldn't effect your gameplay or the ending that you chose. And we would have to work harder than the rest to achieve this

Its not because of you personally while its based on the ignorance and rage thats shown to him from other people.  Most of the atmosphere is toxic on the Internet whether someone is in the wrong or in the right.

which happened because of a couple people who came in here doesn't understand the suggestion of this thread, we not demanding anything or telling Bioware to take away the endings or make an Ending DLC. Its suggesting that they do this through pre-ending DLC and make us acquire more War Assets and a higher EMS level to gain this add-on to the current endings

I know that you and 3D aren't being demanding here, but that doesn't prevent the few on either side from not demanding things.

I know that but I've been in this thread since it started, and most people agreed to this suggestion instead of demanding and others are free to disagree but some did more than that

[Fiannawolf]

@Blue I might not agree with everything you say but I can respect it.

Yea, even if your content with the endings as is:

Alot of fans are asking for more things and each time more DLC is added...it will effect the outcome either thru dialog or scenes or whatever else they decide to put in.

All both sides are asking for is content that would please them. Im not demanding anything from bioware...just suggesting snippits that would put me in the Happier Fan category like Seival and even Dragoonlordz over there. Id be estatic if I could be content like they are. Right now Im dissapointed. Before the EC I was heartbroken. Now Im just in heartache mode b/c the EC almost satisfied me emotionally. At this point Im not even going to suggest any internal logic changes...I just want to be emotionally satisfied.

[Almostfaceman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do not get how products are made. This was not a product made to your specification for your measly $40-$60, it was mass produced. I make mass produced products and user specification ones. Games are not user specification they are mass produced. Mass produced products are the type of product you get what everyone else gets.

So, ME wasn't made for a specific user specification in mind? Like, people who like sci-fi? Or people who like the story of ME1 or ME2? Bioware didn't bother talking to their consumers of ME1 or ME2?  Bioware didn't promise to add story customization based on feedback from their customers of ME1 or ME2?

This argument of course is ridiculous. Of course Bioware was aiming this product at what they perceived was a certain customer type. Their goal was to get it right for as many people as possible. They set up expectations based on their marketing, both formal and informal. 

If the customer doesn't feel like Bioware delivered on what they promised, of course that customer has the right to complain about the product and drop their support for the company. 

None of this is unusual, it happens all the time. Don't like a car that a company makes? Try another company. That's what happened to the American companies in the past. They're still paying for it. 

[Blueprotoss]

Troxa wrote...

Download this & read it they are talking about mass effect

www.google.se/url

Yet I don't care about your opinion specially when you're being forceful about it.

Troxa wrote... 

watch these aswell

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Either way you're still confusing ME with Neverwinter even when the videos are about ME.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do not get how products are made. This was not a product made to your specification for your measly $40-$60, it was mass produced. I make mass produced products and user specification ones. Games are not user specification they are mass produced. Mass produced products are the type of product you get what everyone else gets. User specification type products you get what you want despite what everyone else gets andcosts a hell of a lot more than $10.

No, you simply do not understand how economics works. Do you want to know why this product is not to my exact specification? Because I am a consumer. Indefinite article, as in a single one amongst 3 million. I'm already aware that alone my $60 doesn't mean jack. If it did, you wouldn't be seeing this much autodialoge in ME3.

But your point is about as moronic as telling a voter they shouldn't bother voting because they are one amongst a voice of many. Collective action brings about change, not individual inititative. A President is not elected because one voter decided Obama should be in power. Likewise, a change in Mass Effect would not be brought about because 3DandBeyond alone decided he/she wants a happy ending. This forum, this very thread, is a medium through which all like-minded individuals are able to express their own desire for a specific product, no more, no less.

At the end of the day Bioware needs consumers for EA to continue letting them produce Bioware games. As long as this is the case, collective action is the name of the game whether you accept it or not. And as such, consumers in sufficient numbers can exert influence.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 09 septembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

BioWare promised they will support ME3 only for 1 year after the release. They don't have much time. And they will never spend their time for some "I want optional ponies DLC" nonsence even if they had time for that..
*snipped*

And after playing the last Red Faction game with the baby unicorn gun, or somesuch I heartily support not having ponies in games. Because after shooting rainbow's out of its backside I keep wondering what my PC was using as the trigger......... and why it seemed just a bit tooooo affectionate for my tastes........... don't wanna go there....... To late........ Ergh!

Modifié par Redbelle, 09 septembre 2012 - 05:12 .