6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Some of the problem here I think still stems from Seival having his/her own thread requesting DLC from BW. And that's fine. I don't agree with it, but I'm not over there posting all the time about that. But, Seival thinks s/he has a right to ask for that, but I have no right to ask for anything.

Seival has told me that BW has no plans to make any DLC like this and I've said I'm asking them, not Seival.

But then s/he forgets what is said in his/her own thread:

Seival wrote...

Metalunatic wrote...

Never going to happen, BW already got your money and they specificilly said no more ending DLC.

This suggestion is not about changes. It's about interactive addition to the current epilogues.

And this is what Seival has to do to maintain interest in that thread and poll.

Seival wrote...

Bump for more votes

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:13 .

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

However the implication is that the poster is in some way lacking humility which he does not.  The word doesn't even apply here and is never shown by someone intending to teach it to others.  Humility means to be modest and respectful.  Please stop derailing this thread.

But, I do want to thank you for continuously bumping this thread.  It means a lot.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:22 .

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

Yes, which is why I want to thank you for continuously bumping this thread.  It means a lot.

No problem. I think such thread is a nice place for pro-enders and anti-enders to argue. It's much better than thousands of little, but similar topics.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

while you keep show support for this thread, I will say this

this Exchange is over

Modifié par AresKeith, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[3DandBeyond]

From Seival's thread on DLC:

Seival wrote...

Actually, everyone will be able to play such DLC. Only the ones who don't want to play will not play obviously.

I think that applies here as well. Nice.

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

But you are listening.

And I'm doing my best to convince you, just like some people convinced me before.

Be reasonable. Accept the endings. Deal with it.

lulz Deal with it, such a weak statement, I think the person above your comment says it best to you

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

while you keep show support for this thread, I will say this

this Exchange is over

We all know what happened to Nazara next. No offence

...It will be over only when haters accept the endings, or leave.

[Blueprotoss]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I think you've misinterpreted and misstated a lot here.  Everyone is complicit in this.  And as I said a lot of it was fomented by people that should have been told to stop.  Companies do not allow others to insult their customers.  And no matter how ill-equipped BW was to handle this EA was not.  And you cannot on the one hand say that they've been criticized in the past and so they gave up and then now say they aren't used to criticism.  I'm sorry, but part of getting paid is learning how to and dealing appropriately with any and all criticism.  EA has been in business far longer than many of these other companies.

And your view of whether something is insulting is based on where you're sitting.  And I didn't even accuse BW of being insulting-I specifically stated that surrogates were.  They did however insult fans as well, and one insult by a company or people working for it is one too many.

The blame belongs to the fans since they didn't create ME just like any other game especially when death threats are made.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

Every single company I have ever worked for would not allow any employee to do this, to ever insult a customer, no matter how out of line the customer is.  And I've had to deal with some truly nasty ones, face to face and had to "take it".  And, believe me I wanted to say a lot of things in response but you rise above.  And I'd have lost my job if I did.  I particularly would never have been allowed to go into a public forum and get snarky about customers.  When you work for a company you are a reflection of that company.  And how you deal with things can set the tone.  I don't care how uncivilly or how badly people talk about you.  It's not a schoolyard playground.

I'm pretty sure death threats weren't directed at you and I'm sure you haven't labored over a franchise for 5+ years that you have personally created.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

I personally have had customers that went crazy on me to my face-crazy people.  I still could not go on twitter and say I work for xyz company and customers are crazy and then talk about it.  You don't do it.  If someone is out of hand you deal with it professionally.  You do not devolve into a personal debate, no matter how personal someone else gets, as a member of a company.  And you never do so publicly.  I've worked with people who did just that-want to know how long they last at the company?  Not very long.  Many companies even include the kind of behavior expected within a mission or policy statement and employee guidelines.  And if you go against this you are told it reflects on the company.

Death threats are death threats and that gets personal with everyone.

3DandBeyond wrote... 

I have a family member who deals with just this-she's had subordinates start blogs that deal with company issues-they are told to remove them.  She's had subordinates use Facebook to discuss company things.  They are told to stop.  Some have posted on twitter and are told to stop.  What they do reflects on the company and they have it explained to them that they can't do both, comment on work and customers publicly and work at that company.  The problem is when you work for a company and say something, you are speaking for the company when talking about customers.  Most places do not allow this.

I'm sure most of the employees that she worked with didn't get death threats.

[3DandBeyond]

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Bioware: Here you go.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Don't worry. We all know that humility may be a very long process.

I'll do my by best to help you to accept the endings. And please, don't take it as a personal insult. There is nothing insulting in helping people.

Except that you have been avoiding answering alot of my questions that arose from your statements.

Not to worry, I've pulled a few of them so you can answer the questions in full.

Seival wrote...

Again: I'm glad BioWare don't take people like you seriously.

Even optional content that alters the original story is an abomination.

Did
you not download the DLC's......... Or did you load the DLC's and now
wish you hadn't? And if you have, will you now resolve not to download
any more DLC's that do anything to the ending............. and remove
all DLC's that you may have downloaded to retain the vanilla ending of
ME3?

And

Redbelle wrote...

Seival wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

So by your logic the EC is an abomination b/c it alterned and added it stuff to the vanilla ending....

Explanations are not an abomination.

If you failed to understand the original endings, it's your own problem.

Wait.
You've just confused me...... and that's not easy to do. you have just
contradicted yourself. Here are the two quotes side by side.

Seival wrote...

Even optional content that alters the original story is an abomination.

and

Seival wrote...

Explanations are not an abomination.

I've snipped a bit but nothing that does not impact from the main points on both your posts. Here's the problem

The ECDLC is optional content that alters origninal story, which I don't think you like.

But the ECDLC does clarify and plug a few plot holes, which I think you do like.

So which is it? Do you hate it for being optional content that changes the ending or like it for the clarity it provides?

And
before you say it. Yes, BW did change the ending. That clarity you like
wasn't there before. BW had to add in extra bits and those additions
were changes to the original story. Therefore you can see why I'm
puzzled as to how you have this love/hate thing going with the ECDLC.

Modifié par Redbelle, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:35 .

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

I think we both know why Seival is so against this lol

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

Isn't it easier just to post a link to my thread instead of ripping phrases from it one by one?

I can help you: http://social.biowar.../index/13693416

[Blueprotoss]

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

iakus wrote...

Shepard's dead in virtually every ending!  It doesn't get much more closed than that!

Yet in every RE game Umbrella is defeated in each ending.  Like I said before most games including ME aren't that open in their endings.

Your decisions don't matter in RE games.  You're just along for the ride while the stroy unfolds.  They never claimed otherwise.  Bioware claimed otherwise in Mass Effect.  They called us "architects of the story." said that these Shepards are "our" Shepards.  

And it's not like Bioware hasn't pulled it off before.  DAO was just a couple of years ago and boasted multiple endings, both with the Warden alive and dead.

I'm pretty sure that you haven't played the Resident Evil series to say that there's no choice in them even before RE4.

An epilogue in ME3 to be done in text ala DAO is impossible based on the 65,000+ plotlines in ME3 with the ME2 imports and every peice of DLC.  Yet you forget that ME3 dooes have multiple endings and Shepard can live.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

Isn't it easier just to post a link to my thread instead of ripping phrases from it one by one?

I can help you: http://social.biowar.../index/13693416

I don't think putting my previous post into this thread would be good netiquette so I'll decline posting there.

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

Isn't it easier just to post a link to my thread instead of ripping phrases from it one by one?

I can help you: http://social.biowar.../index/13693416

You should at first place help yourself than you can start to helping to others...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:43 .

[Blueprotoss]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Put away EC... still proper endings ? Than what was point of EC ?

You are saying that EC was just an explanation than what was point of that of EC when you already found your answers via headcanon and forum discusions ? I have managed headcanon from what was told by original ending what will be in the EC and yet I was wrong, I was wrong because BioWare lied again.

EC is retcon and it´s reason why I was wrong, most obvious part of their retcon was survival of Relays - you are the one who is taking Catalyst´s words as face value so with original endings Catalyst clearly statted that relays will be destroyed and even all scenes show it and yet you are saying there wasn´t retcon at all...

Problem is not just in me, by your explanation it´s in huge part of fanbase which want for Shepard and Mass Effect something better, something which make sense and something which doesn´t destroying coherence of story.

I don´t like line of deffense about artistic integrity, their artistic integrity is dead meat for a long time since they start to lied with ME3, I paid as much others because we love ME same as you - and we payed to see Shepard ending this war on own terms and not on terms of the enemy, not mentioned that huge revelation in the end of story is insult to intelligence of consumer. But what I should I tell you, it´s pointless to argue with guys like you because you always see only your side of coin - I have no problem with saying that ME3 has even few good moments but endings killed it and not just for me but lot of others whole ME franchise.

This shows that you'll never be happy and you clearly missed what this topic is about.

[3DandBeyond]

@Blueprotoss,
Ok so your whole post is about death threats as if I agree with them.  You start off acting rational and then bring this into it as if I condone that.  I worked with a police department and certainly don't condone that, but nor do I think that later on a dev should go and imply that someone that had written a letter saying they weren't going to buy more BW games unless this was fixed was being threatening.  Death threats, unfortunately happen to every company, even those not involved in such heated debate and each one of them should be handled appropriately, hastily, and seriously, but to imply that everyone that hated the endings was then some rabid wanna be killer is destructive and untrue.  Just as you have thrown the term at me when I have explicitly stated repeatedly that destructive behavior should be handled as serious.

On other websites, destructive (truly destructive) people on both sides of an argument are removed, banned, and even have their IPs banned.  Death threats and even threats of more minor bodily harm are taken quite seriously and I would never suggest anyone do otherwise.  But I don't think it's appropriate to throw that into the mix as a company.  What that did was give some authority to IGN and others to label people as crazy and to consider them in the same light as those threatening ones were.  And so that in turn raised the level of the argument.  You have to look at it in this way-it is a fact of doing business or any public thing that you will get a death threat.  It's not right and should be handled.  Do you know how many Steve Jobs got?  I don't, but I know with certainty that he did.  Did he jump out and say fans were threatening to kill him?  No.  Do you think Bill Gates got death threats?  Sure did.  I have no doubt Mother Theresa did, and every single public person does.  And you never hear about it for several reasons.  One is because it casts a certain pall on your business.  Another is because it can create a trend-people copy that and send more threats.

And, in case you want some more fun facts that BW should be aware of.  Here's one.  Not all of the people that just love them on twitter are nice people.  Statistically speaking some of any company's staunchest supporters have a stalker mentality and won't threaten to kill.  In fact, they will be the first to tweet, "awww, but we all love you" when someone feels bad about getting nasty feedback.  That person that is soooo sypathetic on here to Bioware may actually believe they have a close personal relationship with Bioware and think that Bioware personally cares about them and if they find out it's not true, look out.  I am serious about this.  People out there that sometimes act way too nice are often just as bad if not worse then those that express the desire to do harm.  That is why people in the public eye can never make this stuff personal.

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This too is from Seival's thread and I think it applies here as well:

Seival wrote...

Such DLC will not be hard to make indeed. But it will be quite expensive to make (many voice-overs)... Well, and I don't think it can be a problem, because such DLC will definitely be paid.

Now, Seival's idea might require a lot of VAs, but I don't think what some of us have suggested would, so that wouldn't be so applicable, but I think this does fit.

Isn't it easier just to post a link to my thread instead of ripping phrases from it one by one?

Nope it's up to you to use the merits of what you post to gain posts-it's not for me to advertise it.  I just want you to recognize the hypocrisy you have stated here.

You supposedly were a "retaker" though I never saw any evidence of that in your "Normandy on the jungle planet was a mass relay crash test" thread.

However, if you say so then you didn't like the original endings and wanted them changed.  And you had been called a whiner and so on.  Now they are changed (an abomination in your mind) and you are happy so it's ok for you to call other people whiners and haters.

And you can suggest DLC because you like that idea, but I can't because Bioware doesn't take requests. 

Yeah, ok. 

[Blueprotoss]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@Blueprotoss,
Ok so your whole post is about death threats as if I agree with them.  You start off acting rational and then bring this into it as if I condone that.  I worked with a police department and certainly don't condone that, but nor do I think that later on a dev should go and imply that someone that had written a letter saying they weren't going to buy more BW games unless this was fixed was being threatening.  Death threats, unfortunately happen to every company, even those not involved in such heated debate and each one of them should be handled appropriately, hastily, and seriously, but to imply that everyone that hated the endings was then some rabid wanna be killer is destructive and untrue.  Just as you have thrown the term at me when I have explicitly stated repeatedly that destructive behavior should be handled as serious.

On other websites, destructive (truly destructive) people on both sides of an argument are removed, banned, and even have their IPs banned.  Death threats and even threats of more minor bodily harm are taken quite seriously and I would never suggest anyone do otherwise.  But I don't think it's appropriate to throw that into the mix as a company.  What that did was give some authority to IGN and others to label people as crazy and to consider them in the same light as those threatening ones were.  And so that in turn raised the level of the argument.  You have to look at it in this way-it is a fact of doing business or any public thing that you will get a death threat.  It's not right and should be handled.  Do you know how many Steve Jobs got?  I don't, but I know with certainty that he did.  Did he jump out and say fans were threatening to kill him?  No.  Do you think Bill Gates got death threats?  Sure did.  I have no doubt Mother Theresa did, and every single public person does.  And you never hear about it for several reasons.  One is because it casts a certain pall on your business.  Another is because it can create a trend-people copy that and send more threats.

And, in case you want some more fun facts that BW should be aware of.  Here's one.  Not all of the people that just love them on twitter are nice people.  Statistically speaking some of any company's staunchest supporters have a stalker mentality and won't threaten to kill.  In fact, they will be the first to tweet, "awww, but we all love you" when someone feels bad about getting nasty feedback.  That person that is soooo sypathetic on here to Bioware may actually believe they have a close personal relationship with Bioware and think that Bioware personally cares about them and if they find out it's not true, look out.  I am serious about this.  People out there that sometimes act way too nice are often just as bad if not worse then those that express the desire to do harm.  That is why people in the public eye can never make this stuff personal.

Never said you agreed with death threats, but death threats is a whole different animal.  Nobody likes them especially when they have their own family.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 septembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Redbelle]

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

@Blueprotoss,
Ok so your whole post is about death threats as if I agree with them.  You start off acting rational and then bring this into it as if I condone that.  I worked with a police department and certainly don't condone that, but nor do I think that later on a dev should go and imply that someone that had written a letter saying they weren't going to buy more BW games unless this was fixed was being threatening.  Death threats, unfortunately happen to every company, even those not involved in such heated debate and each one of them should be handled appropriately, hastily, and seriously, but to imply that everyone that hated the endings was then some rabid wanna be killer is destructive and untrue.  Just as you have thrown the term at me when I have explicitly stated repeatedly that destructive behavior should be handled as serious.

On other websites, destructive (truly destructive) people on both sides of an argument are removed, banned, and even have their IPs banned.  Death threats and even threats of more minor bodily harm are taken quite seriously and I would never suggest anyone do otherwise.  But I don't think it's appropriate to throw that into the mix as a company.  What that did was give some authority to IGN and others to label people as crazy and to consider them in the same light as those threatening ones were.  And so that in turn raised the level of the argument.  You have to look at it in this way-it is a fact of doing business or any public thing that you will get a death threat.  It's not right and should be handled.  Do you know how many Steve Jobs got?  I don't, but I know with certainty that he did.  Did he jump out and say fans were threatening to kill him?  No.  Do you think Bill Gates got death threats?  Sure did.  I have no doubt Mother Theresa did, and every single public person does.  And you never hear about it for several reasons.  One is because it casts a certain pall on your business.  Another is because it can create a trend-people copy that and send more threats.

And, in case you want some more fun facts that BW should be aware of.  Here's one.  Not all of the people that just love them on twitter are nice people.  Statistically speaking some of any company's staunchest supporters have a stalker mentality and won't threaten to kill.  In fact, they will be the first to tweet, "awww, but we all love you" when someone feels bad about getting nasty feedback.  That person that is soooo sypathetic on here to Bioware may actually believe they have a close personal relationship with Bioware and think that Bioware personally cares about them and if they find out it's not true, look out.  I am serious about this.  People out there that sometimes act way too nice are often just as bad if not worse then those that express the desire to do harm.  That is why people in the public eye can never make this stuff personal.

Never said you agreed with death threats, but death threats is a whole different animal.

Sry blue, but could you expand on what you mean in that statement?

*Edit* Still not cottoning on to the different animal take.

Modifié par Redbelle, 10 septembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Never said you agreed with death threats, but death threats is a whole different animal.

but you can't base an entire side of the fanbase because of a few people of acts like that, and a company like EA/Bioware has to be use to that no matter what

[Blueprotoss]

Redbelle wrote...

Sry blue, but could you expand on what you mean in that statement?

 *Edit* Still not cottoning on to the different animal take.

Do you want to die or have your family harmed?

Phsyical harm is that different animal.

AresKeith wrote...

but you can't base an entire side of the fanbase because of a few people of acts like that, and a company like EA/Bioware has to be use to that no matter what

Its a part of the fanbase, but everyone has a right to defend their lives.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 septembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[Redbelle]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Sry blue, but could you expand on what you mean in that statement?

Do you want to die or have your family harmed?

Not sure how a death threat aimed at someone else or me personally is a distinction. A death threat is a death threat. Individuals can place greater emphasis on them but outside of the individuals bubble such a threat can be dealt with a manner similar to other threat regardless of who sent them to whom.

*edit* Physical harm? The threat of physical harm or actual physical harm that has occured?

p.s. I'm sensing we're sooooo off topic with this.

Modifié par Redbelle, 10 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .