6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Now you're just trolling. But hell, you've been doing that already for the past hundred pages.

How am I "trolling" when nobody knows whether or not that ME3 wouldn't have a canon ending later on like in ME4.

[Almostfaceman]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Realistically, we're not going to get what we want (apologies, dlc's, etc.) unless we make the corporation feel it in the wallet. So if enough of us don't spend money on Bioware products, they'll begin to understand that what they're doing doesn't please their customers. So do what I do, if you want change, keep your change.

Boycotts either cause more problems or don't solve anything.

Boycotts solve problems and get things resolved. 

How is that when L4D2 was well recieved and most of the boycotts were killed.

I say this once for others and not for you. You're quite obviously a troll.

First, I qualified my initial statement with "if enough people". Which is true. 
Then, you responded with a blanket absolute statement that all boycotts are ineffective.
So, I responded with something equally as silly, that all boycotts work.
But boycotts do work sometimes. I've lived through one. I grew up on the 80's when the American car manufacturers were boycotted by the American public in favor of Japanese manufacturers. It worked. Over the years the loss in sales prompted the American car manufacturers to stop making junk like they did in the 70's. So, it solved the problem of low car quality in the American industry. Quality has gone up and thanks to competition and a discerning customer we now have a wide range of quality cars to choose from, both American and Japanese. 

[Icinix]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

The enviroment on BSN is way too toxic to do so.

Yeah - and it will probably remain that way for ever until someone opens their gob and starts talking.

How is that when Bioware did try on several occassions while all that filled those topics were rage whether it was here on BSN or on Twitter.

Rubbish - they haven't tried to engage on the forums (beyond the odd Moderator keeping an eye on things)

It was the same thing as DA2 - and they started up some threads, engaged with people, and its all pretty much died down.

You'll get a few who will fire up as you always have anyway - but the devs haven't tried to get involved at all.

As for Twitter - well I stay away from that so can't comment - but from what I've seen Twitter has people troll and flame everything anyway regardless of what it is - so I don't think thats exclusive to BioWare.

[Applepie_Svk]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Now you're just trolling. But hell, you've been doing that already for the past hundred pages.

How am I "trolling" when nobody knows whether or not that ME3 wouldn't have a canon ending later on like in ME4.

Are you saying that BioWare could have lied again ?

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[Icinix]

Redbelle wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Pheonix57 wrote...

For what it's worth, I too would like Bioware to issue an apology. Or at least give us something solid that explains what they did/are trying to do.

I want them to start talking about the ending like they said the day after launch they would do once more people had played it.

They said discussions were imminent....

You never know. They may have planned a DLC like the arrival that adds another way to potentially end the trilogy on.

In ME2 blowing up the collector base was the end. But continuing, (yes I know you can't continue in ME3 but I'm basing this on past DLC release events)...... continuing past the collector base gave you The Arrival DLC that, being the last DLC produced for ME2 had another bookend feel to it. i.e. It didn't feed into further events within the game but served as a bridge between ME2 to ME3.

Maybe they won't, or can't do something similar in ME3. But from past form the last DLC BW release should be one that rocks the game. Cause every game developer wants to end their games on a high note and the ECDLC 'Retake' movement etc, have pretty much told BW that a significant portion of fans didn't get that high.

Maybe, I would love to see them try to salvage and give it their all to get back in the game.

Most companies just cut their losses when it blows up anywhere like this, and despite the 'vocal minority' tag, I don't think a game has caused this much of an outcry in my memory.

Fingers crossed you're right and they'll pull it out of the fire yet.

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

[Solmanian]

I wonder if the OP seen the EC? it fixed most of my issues with the ending. You can't expect a galactic war against a vastly superior enemy to have a disney ending. Ending up with a bunch of "bad" choices to choose from; what the player considers the "lesser evil", tells the players alot about himself.
For those who chose destroy, the players decided to sacrifice (sacrifice is a recurrent motif in the endings, as it should be) some of their allies for the permenant removal of the reapers, the "victory at any cost" approach; personally I call it "the avenger", because it's less about bringing peace and more about punishing the reapers for their eons of genocide.
for the refuse ending: it's for the players who refuse to compromise their principles, even at the cost of galactic annihilation, and they should consider what it says about them. I allways belived that anyone is entitled to his own opinion, and while being willing to die for your belief is considered admirable, demanding that other people will die for your belief is quite the opposite. I believe it was sun tzu who said: "the tree that doesn't bend in the wind, breaks" (not an exact qoute). You're the tree, the reapers are the wind, you chose not to bend - face the consequences. Suicidal fanatics don't get happy endings.
The synthesis, well it was awefully confusing. It was basically for granola munching hippies (I kid) who wanted a disney ending where geth and quarian, krogan and turians, batarians and humans holding hands with reapers singing "why can't we be friends". And oh yeah, all you have to sacrifice is the uniqueness of everyone in the galaxy.
The control ending, which I choose, is the obvious paragon ending. Sure, before EC it looked liked the ending of choice for power mongers who wants to hold a tiger by the tail. You don't wipe out entire species, you don't make a unilateral decision to alter everyone in the galaxy, and even the reapers become a productive members of society. The cost to make it happen? Shepard, body and soul. Sacrifising everything that shepard was, and dooming him to spend eternity keeping watch over the galaxy. It's not totalitarian, shepard's reapers merely acts as peacekeepers and guides. Whatever the price is for ending the war, saving galactic society, and echieving universal peace, this shepard makes the decision that he alone will pay it. That's what I call personal responsibilty, refusing to let other people pay the price for your decisions. It's sort of a "Jesus ending", and I loved it. Shepard aint dead, he's up there watching over all his friends; it's a perfect ending for his story.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

I can deny that the majority of complaints on these forums have contained death threats.

And if I can't deny it for those reasons you gave what gives you the right to you pass it off as fact? You just admitted you don't have that information and yet here you are telling me that you do.

Modifié par Isichar, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:28 .

[Blueprotoss]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I say this once for others and not for you. You're quite obviously a troll.

First, I qualified my initial statement with "if enough people". Which is true. 
Then, you responded with a blanket absolute statement that all boycotts are ineffective.
So, I responded with something equally as silly, that all boycotts work.
But boycotts do work sometimes. I've lived through one. I grew up on the 80's when the American car manufacturers were boycotted by the American public in favor of Japanese manufacturers. It worked. Over the years the loss in sales prompted the American car manufacturers to stop making junk like they did in the 70's. So, it solved the problem of low car quality in the American industry. Quality has gone up and thanks to competition and a discerning customer we now have a wide range of quality cars to choose from, both American and Japanese.

Yet you don't know what you're talking about because you used the word "troll" and you're trying to comparing International trade between countries to video games.  Most of the video game boycotts haven't worked especially when L4D2 is still a prime example.

[Dragoonlordz]

Icinix wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Pheonix57 wrote...

For what it's worth, I too would like Bioware to issue an apology. Or at least give us something solid that explains what they did/are trying to do.

I want them to start talking about the ending like they said the day after launch they would do once more people had played it.

They said discussions were imminent....

You never know. They may have planned a DLC like the arrival that adds another way to potentially end the trilogy on.

In ME2 blowing up the collector base was the end. But continuing, (yes I know you can't continue in ME3 but I'm basing this on past DLC release events)...... continuing past the collector base gave you The Arrival DLC that, being the last DLC produced for ME2 had another bookend feel to it. i.e. It didn't feed into further events within the game but served as a bridge between ME2 to ME3.

Maybe they won't, or can't do something similar in ME3. But from past form the last DLC BW release should be one that rocks the game. Cause every game developer wants to end their games on a high note and the ECDLC 'Retake' movement etc, have pretty much told BW that a significant portion of fans didn't get that high.

Maybe, I would love to see them try to salvage and give it their all to get back in the game.

Most companies just cut their losses when it blows up anywhere like this, and despite the 'vocal minority' tag, I don't think a game has caused this much of an outcry in my memory.

Fingers crossed you're right and they'll pull it out of the fire yet.

Diablo 3 online single player requirement and RMAH caused a much larger backlash. Do not confuse some people sending cakes or pulling PR stunts to mean bigger backlash. Number wise vastly more people were unhappy about D3 online only requirement and real money auction house than people who dislike ME3 ending. Funny thing about bias you only see what you want to see, if you only read about ME3 then ME3 is the biggest thing you see. Take step outside of ME3 topics and will notice there have been much bigger backlashes to games than ME3 endings.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:26 .

[Solmanian]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

I don't think I ever saw a death threat. At most just run of the mill EA hate.

[Blueprotoss]

Icinix wrote...

Rubbish - they haven't tried to engage on the forums (beyond the odd Moderator keeping an eye on things)

It was the same thing as DA2 - and they started up some threads, engaged with people, and its all pretty much died down.

You'll get a few who will fire up as you always have anyway - but the devs haven't tried to get involved at all.

As for Twitter - well I stay away from that so can't comment - but from what I've seen Twitter has people troll and flame everything anyway regardless of what it is - so I don't think thats exclusive to BioWare.

I'm sure you haven't heard of the few topics that have occured and its not good to make assumptions.

[Redbelle]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

So who did Deus Ex copy?

So there was no movie called Star Trek: First Contact?

I've just gone through evey post related to this and watched the vid........... How does ST : FC factor into this?

Data and the Borg is a good start.

Then why didn't you articulate Data and Borg before now? You were making valid points before but now......... it' sounds like your playing a word association game.

If you have a point then articulate it. How is any poster supposed to know how Data and the Borg factor into the video link and Deus Ex? In fact............ how do Data and the Borg factor in? What was it you wanted to say but failed to convey?

I'm really trying to have a discussion here but the level of debate is danger of approaching a level of dyslexia that I can't respond to idea's but rather have to request clarification.

It's like the ME ending all over again! All I want is some ECDLC.

*edit* Aw nvm, it's late. Ntn all

Modifié par Redbelle, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:28 .

[Warrior Craess]

Seival wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Is it wrong to want proper ending for Shepard ?

ME already has proper endings. Choose the one you like the most. I'm sure you like one of them more than the others.

If endings are a problem for you, then search the source of that problem in yourself, not in the game.

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahaahahahahahahaha........

really? so first we're too dumb to understand it, and now there is something inside us that prevents us from liking it?

if i wasn't already ignoring most of what you say, this would make me do so...    but thanks for the laugh. 

[Blueprotoss]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Now you're just trolling. But hell, you've been doing that already for the past hundred pages.

How am I "trolling" when nobody knows whether or not that ME3 wouldn't have a canon ending later on like in ME4.

Are you saying that BioWare could have lied again ?

Yet Bioware never said this while you forget that Shepard was still able to continue his/her journey throughout ME with established canon.

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

I can deny that the majority of complaints on these forums have contained death threats.

And if I can't deny it for those reasons what gives you the right to you pass it off as fact? You just admitted you don't have that information and yet here you are telling me that you do.

Yet you can't.

Solmanian wrote...

I don't think I ever saw a death threat. At most just run of the mill EA hate.

Currently its hard to but it did happen enough and thats one of the reasons why Penny Arcade got involved. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Now you're just trolling. But hell, you've been doing that already for the past hundred pages.

How am I "trolling" when nobody knows whether or not that ME3 wouldn't have a canon ending later on like in ME4.

Are you saying that BioWare could have lied again ?

Yet Bioware never said this while you forget that Shepard was still able to continue his/her journey throughout ME with established canon.

Your ability to give straight answers is impecable.

[ShepnTali]

Solmanian wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

I don't think I ever saw a death threat. At most just run of the mill EA hate.

Blueprotoss claims most of the complaints directed at Bioware were death threats with physical violence.

We're still waiting on these 'facts'.

[Icinix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Pheonix57 wrote...

For what it's worth, I too would like Bioware to issue an apology. Or at least give us something solid that explains what they did/are trying to do.

I want them to start talking about the ending like they said the day after launch they would do once more people had played it.

They said discussions were imminent....

You never know. They may have planned a DLC like the arrival that adds another way to potentially end the trilogy on.

In ME2 blowing up the collector base was the end. But continuing, (yes I know you can't continue in ME3 but I'm basing this on past DLC release events)...... continuing past the collector base gave you The Arrival DLC that, being the last DLC produced for ME2 had another bookend feel to it. i.e. It didn't feed into further events within the game but served as a bridge between ME2 to ME3.

Maybe they won't, or can't do something similar in ME3. But from past form the last DLC BW release should be one that rocks the game. Cause every game developer wants to end their games on a high note and the ECDLC 'Retake' movement etc, have pretty much told BW that a significant portion of fans didn't get that high.

Maybe, I would love to see them try to salvage and give it their all to get back in the game.

Most companies just cut their losses when it blows up anywhere like this, and despite the 'vocal minority' tag, I don't think a game has caused this much of an outcry in my memory.

Fingers crossed you're right and they'll pull it out of the fire yet.

Diablo 3 online single player requirement and RMAH caused a much larger backlash. Do not confuse some people sending cakes or pulling PR stunts to mean bigger backlash. Number wise vastly more people were unhappy about D3 online only requirement and real money auction house than people who dislike ME3 ending. Funny thing about bias you only see what you want to see, if you only read about ME3 then ME3 is the biggest thing you see. Take step outside of ME3 topics and will notice there have been much bigger backlashes to games than ME3 endings.

lol @ you talking about bias.

BSN is the place I probably spend the least amount of time of all the forums and sites I check out. D3 is huge, the online requirement is huge, but for pure rage and outcry - ME3 pips it.

[Icinix]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Rubbish - they haven't tried to engage on the forums (beyond the odd Moderator keeping an eye on things)

It was the same thing as DA2 - and they started up some threads, engaged with people, and its all pretty much died down.

You'll get a few who will fire up as you always have anyway - but the devs haven't tried to get involved at all.

As for Twitter - well I stay away from that so can't comment - but from what I've seen Twitter has people troll and flame everything anyway regardless of what it is - so I don't think thats exclusive to BioWare.

I'm sure you haven't heard of the few topics that have occured and its not good to make assumptions.

Really? BioWare developers have engaged with fans and started threads discussing the endings?

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

I can not speak for the email accounts of bioware employees since I don't have that information, and I question whether you do too. That aside you said that most of the complaints, especially on BSN have been death threats. Again thats a very serious claim to make.

Do I doubt they have gotten death threats? No
Do I doubt they have gotten quite a few death threats? No
Have most the complaints on BSN had death threats? No

Yet you aren't a Bioware employee nor am I so you can't deny without such things especially when it spread to Twitter.

I can deny that the majority of complaints on these forums have contained death threats.

And if I can't deny it for those reasons what gives you the right to you pass it off as fact? You just admitted you don't have that information and yet here you are telling me that you do.

Yet you can't.

Yet you can?

And thats not contradicting yourself at all? Are you a troll or really just so incapable of logical reasoning?

Modifié par Isichar, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Blueprotoss]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Now you're just trolling. But hell, you've been doing that already for the past hundred pages.

How am I "trolling" when nobody knows whether or not that ME3 wouldn't have a canon ending later on like in ME4.

Are you saying that BioWare could have lied again ?

Yet Bioware never said this while you forget that Shepard was still able to continue his/her journey throughout ME with established canon.

Your ability to give straight answers is impecable.

Yet I am giving you staright answers.

[Ozida]

Solmanian wrote...

I wonder if the OP seen the EC? it fixed most of my issues with the ending. You can't expect a galactic war against a vastly superior enemy to have a disney ending. Ending up with a bunch of "bad" choices to choose from; what the player considers the "lesser evil", tells the players alot about himself.
For those who chose destroy, the players decided to sacrifice (sacrifice is a recurrent motif in the endings, as it should be) some of their allies for the permenant removal of the reapers, the "victory at any cost" approach; personally I call it "the avenger", because it's less about bringing peace and more about punishing the reapers for their eons of genocide.
for the refuse ending: it's for the players who refuse to compromise their principles, even at the cost of galactic annihilation, and they should consider what it says about them. I allways belived that anyone is entitled to his own opinion, and while being willing to die for your belief is considered admirable, demanding that other people will die for your belief is quite the opposite. I believe it was sun tzu who said: "the tree that doesn't bend in the wind, breaks" (not an exact qoute). You're the tree, the reapers are the wind, you chose not to bend - face the consequences. Suicidal fanatics don't get happy endings.
The synthesis, well it was awefully confusing. It was basically for granola munching hippies (I kid) who wanted a disney ending where geth and quarian, krogan and turians, batarians and humans holding hands with reapers singing "why can't we be friends". And oh yeah, all you have to sacrifice is the uniqueness of everyone in the galaxy.
The control ending, which I choose, is the obvious paragon ending. Sure, before EC it looked liked the ending of choice for power mongers who wants to hold a tiger by the tail. You don't wipe out entire species, you don't make a unilateral decision to alter everyone in the galaxy, and even the reapers become a productive members of society. The cost to make it happen? Shepard, body and soul. Sacrifising everything that shepard was, and dooming him to spend eternity keeping watch over the galaxy. It's not totalitarian, shepard's reapers merely acts as peacekeepers and guides. Whatever the price is for ending the war, saving galactic society, and echieving universal peace, this shepard makes the decision that he alone will pay it. That's what I call personal responsibilty, refusing to let other people pay the price for your decisions. It's sort of a "Jesus ending", and I loved it. Shepard aint dead, he's up there watching over all his friends; it's a perfect ending for his story.

I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would like to put my two cents in as well.

First of all, the fact that EC has "fixed" it for you would tell me that you might have been fine with original endings in the first place. Because EC did not fix anything, it just extended it (and that's why it is called Extended Cut, hey! ). And by that the choices should've seen fine to you to start with.

However, for some people, it felt very-very disconnected from the series. Once again, EC didn't fix anything for those people, because it was the same thing, really. And the fact that so many people have moved on to accept EC as something good, makes me truly sad. In this case the whole "Take ME3 back" movement seems as hypocrisy, to be honest. Did we really win? <_<

1. Destroy – I’ for example, worked very hard for all 3 games to stop the war between geth and quarians. At the same time I have always kept in mind destroying Reapers as my main goal. How is it possible that two of
my important goal conflict all of a sudden?! It is unpleasantly ridiculous.
2. Synthesis – I won’t even go there, sorry. There are so many bad things I can say about this “love child” of BW writers…
3. Control – I do not see this option acceptable for my Paragon Shep. Once again, I don’t want to go over each single ending, because it has been done a thousand times already.
4. Refuse – just stupid option. I don’t even know why they put in there if it just a pretty “game over” version.

There is nothing “bittersweet” in those endings. There are just bitter. If you disagree, you have all rights to. However, it won’t change my opinion either, and I, for one, support this thread for an option we could and should receive.

Modifié par Ozida, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Icinix wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Diablo 3 online single player requirement and RMAH caused a much larger backlash. Do not confuse some people sending cakes or pulling PR stunts to mean bigger backlash. Number wise vastly more people were unhappy about D3 online only requirement and real money auction house than people who dislike ME3 ending. Funny thing about bias you only see what you want to see, if you only read about ME3 then ME3 is the biggest thing you see. Take step outside of ME3 topics and will notice there have been much bigger backlashes to games than ME3 endings.

lol @ you talking about bias.

BSN is the place I probably spend the least amount of time of all the forums and sites I check out. D3 is huge, the online requirement is huge, but for pure rage and outcry - ME3 pips it.

Not even close. A larger outcry is related to the number of people crying about it not just some people pulling few PR stunts.

Diablo 3's outcry was larger in scale and is still going on still.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .