6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ummm.... right. I said "many," not all, didn't I? I'm sure there area fair number of players who prefer their games to be nice because their real lives aren't very nice.

You're starting to sound a little traumatized, you know. Much worse than you did a month or two ago.

I will tell you that this is exactly why I play games-and I've played video games since the 1980s.  Real life exists and I've seen plenty of it.  It's pretty demented when it must constantly be inserted into entertainment for some gratuitous reason which ends up being the desire to be taken seriously.

OK. You don't like this stuff intruding into your games. I do. Now what?

Actually, you are the one that sounds rather traumatized-you wanted the galaxy to be a wasteland, relays completely destroyed.

I've gone through traumatizing things and I have suffered, but I don't dwell on them at all and I'm an extremely optimistic untraumatized person.  I have in fact been very lucky to be able to at times help others as well.

Alan, you have read plenty of my posts and then commented on them in disparaging ways, consistently.  You have never acted in a genuine manner when I've replied to you and explained my position, which you already knew.  You're playing games which again shows issues you assign to me.

I am a very lucky person with a good life and part of that is the determination to find happiness where it exists.

ME was a game that never took itself too seriously.  Had I known the endings were going to be like some traumatized nightmare with super happy outcomes that are not in line with the choices made, I might well have skipped this game.  It wasn't called, "let's commit suicide" or any such thing as that and it was a game about "real" people choosing to fight for their future, not about a fantasy AI given or showing the hero a magical way to end it all.

I've also repeatedly answered this idea of yours that some "happier" ending would somehow hurt the ending you have.  You aren't forced to play anything other than what you have.  You've asserted that if one ending was happier people would only play that and I said this was not true.  If it was true, then that means the majority of people didn't get the ending they wanted-if you'd play the happier ending, you didn't get what you wanted.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 août 2012 - 08:58 .

[Pitznik]

I like the endings as they are, maybe not exactly in excution but in that each one requires some compromise, some careful weighting the risk against the possible losses. But a straight happy ending wouldn't hurt me, unless it would be conventional victory.

So +1 to OP, as long as it is not just a simple conventional victory, invalidating the whole plot. Super high EMS destroy with dialogue indicating clearly that you have power over the Catalyst and targeting Reapers alone would work for me.

[Ithurael]

Pitznik wrote...

I like the endings as they are, maybe not exactly in excution but in that each one requires some compromise, some careful weighting the risk against the possible losses. But a straight happy ending wouldn't hurt me, unless it would be conventional victory.

So +1 to OP, as long as it is not just a simple conventional victory, invalidating the whole plot. Super high EMS destroy with dialogue indicating clearly that you have power over the Catalyst and targeting Reapers alone would work for me.

I do agree. Also, I would just love it in any future DLC where you can actually bring up the geth/quarian resolution (provided you made peace) to the star kid. Yeah he would deny it as something silly but at least it would lend credence to "Our choices matter"

That and a Harbinger bossfight.

[Zan51]

3DandBeyond -
Once again you very eloquently put what I feel into words I have been unable to. Yes, a thousand times. I love ME3 it's what I have been waiting for since Babylon 5 and Firefly - an SF game with Heart and Soul in it! It's not some FPS or MP shooter, it was more.

Like others here I have found life hard and gritty, I want to play games with hope and a light at the end of the tunnel, to be Uplifted, not crushed and told I matter not at all, that all my best efforts amount to nothing, and some overlord/deity (gaming franchise in this case) has already decided the outcome for me before I began!

Science Fiction is NOT just the literature of the What If, that looks at the hard decisions in life that affect galaxies. It also looks at the soft sciences, the relationships with humanity and aliens, what divides us and what goes beyond all boundaries, real or artificial, to bind us together. What is wrong with going down in history of gaming as being the one bright beacon that did that - bound disparate races and goals together to defeat a common foe, and win by not giving up our souls to the evil that lurks out there? Why has it to be gritty and concern decisions no sane person would take in the real world? And no, I am not attacking those who chose other than Refuse or Destroy in the game. Your choice is as valid as mine (Destroy) given the choices.

Wherever you go, there is BAD controversy about the forced endings and lack of closure in ME3. I cannot believe this is what Bioware wanted.
Please reconsider and give us, those who don't want the gritty reality that was suddenly forced on us in the final installment of a really Uplifting game, something good as an ending, something uplifting. The fans who love the current endings don't need to buy any such DLC, they are happy with what they have, but I bet you that such a DLC would sell extremely well

Modifié par Zan51, 30 août 2012 - 09:02 .

[3DandBeyond]

Pitznik wrote...

I like the endings as they are, maybe not exactly in excution but in that each one requires some compromise, some careful weighting the risk against the possible losses. But a straight happy ending wouldn't hurt me, unless it would be conventional victory.

So +1 to OP, as long as it is not just a simple conventional victory, invalidating the whole plot. Super high EMS destroy with dialogue indicating clearly that you have power over the Catalyst and targeting Reapers alone would work for me.

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself.  He might appear as a reaper or a Leviathan even and sound more like the "so be it" creature as you get closer to a real finale DLC.  And all of this would or could separate him from the crucible.  It could become complete and discriminate-destroying reapers and if need be Leviathan.

[Zan51]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

I like the endings as they are, maybe not exactly in excution but in that each one requires some compromise, some careful weighting the risk against the possible losses. But a straight happy ending wouldn't hurt me, unless it would be conventional victory.

So +1 to OP, as long as it is not just a simple conventional victory, invalidating the whole plot. Super high EMS destroy with dialogue indicating clearly that you have power over the Catalyst and targeting Reapers alone would work for me.

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself.  He might appear as a reaper or a Leviathan even and sound more like the "so be it" creature as you get closer to a real finale DLC.  And all of this would or could separate him from the crucible.  It could become complete and discriminate-destroying reapers and if need be Leviathan.

Has my vote! 101%

[ziyon conqueror]

I'm not giving up. I will never give up for a better ending. My preference is Shepard surviving, Reapers all die and all life gain Synthesis for better and mutual understanding between each other (reference Gundam 00)

[3DandBeyond]

Zan51 wrote...

3DandBeyond -
Once again you very eloquently put what I feel into words I have been unable to. Yes, a thousand times. I love ME3 it's what I have been waiting for since Babylon 5 and Firefly - an SF game with Heart and Soul in it! It's not some FPS or MP shooter, it was more.

Like others here I have found life hard and gritty, I want to play games with hope and a light at the end of the tunnel, to be Uplifted, not crushed and told I matter not at all, that all my best efforts amount to nothing, and some overlord/deity (gaming franchise in this case) has already decided the outcome for me before I began!

Science Fiction is NOT just the literature of the What If, that looks at the hard decisions in life that affect galaxies. It also looks at the soft sciences, the relationships with humanity and aliens, what divides us and what goes beyond all boundaries, real or artificial, to bind us together. What is wrong with going down in history of gaming as being the one bright beacon that did that - bound disparate races and goals together to defeat a common foe, and win by not giving up our souls to the evil that lurks out there? Why has it to be gritty and concern decisions no sane person would take in the real world? And no, I am not attacking those who chose other than Refuse or Destroy in the game. Your choice is as valid as mine (Destroy) given the choices.

Wherever you go, there is BAD controversy about the forced endings and lack of closure in ME3. I cannot believe this is what Bioware wanted.
Please reconsider and give us, those who don't want the gritty reality that was suddenly forced on us in the final installment of a really Uplifting game, something good as an ending, something uplifting. The fans who love the current endings don't need to buy any such DLC, they are happy with what they have, but I bet you that such a DLC would sell extremely well

Thank you and to all with such kind words.  I do think what people have to understand is I'm not suggesting they take away what you like-I'm merely asking them to add to it or alter it slightly so that others of us can like it as you do.  That means more sales, more DLC, more love for Bioware and maybe some less infighting here.  We are all fans.

[ATiBotka]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself. 

He's just an AI, I don't think he has physical look.

[Thaa_solon]

ATiBotka wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself. 

He's just an AI, I don't think he has physical look.

He could take the shape of one's and zero*s

[Shatterhand1701]

Personally, the Extended Cut did enough with the endings for me to be satisfied with my ME3 playing experience, and to redeem BioWare in my eyes, so I'm stepping away from the whole "Fix the Endings" bandwagon. However, the OP makes some valid points, and that's a welcome change of pace from the usual line of reasoning that has become more or less the trademark of the BSN community: "I want the endings changed because they sucked and I say so! GIMME THEM, THEY'RE MINE!!! Oh, and anyone who doesn't agree with me is a BioWare fanboy."

[ATiBotka]

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

Personally, the Extended Cut did enough with the endings for me to be satisfied with my ME3 playing experience, and to redeem BioWare in my eyes, so I'm stepping away from the whole "Fix the Endings" bandwagon. However, the OP makes some valid points, and that's a welcome change of pace from the usual line of reasoning that has become more or less the trademark of the BSN community: "I want the endings changed because they sucked and I say so! GIMME THEM, THEY'RE MINE!!! Oh, and anyone who doesn't agree with me is a BioWare fanboy."

Agreed.

[Shaigunjoe]

The only thing that bothers me is that you think this is the *right* thing to do, as opposed to what you (and what is probably a majority of at least bsn users) want to do, making it more of a popular thing as opposed to the right thing.

[robertthebard]

Massa FX wrote...

Why can't people that don't agree with the OP make their own thread? Why is there discussion on a thread addressed to Bioware and clearly the OP is leaving a message for Bioware.

It's ok not to agree but why not start your own thread with your thoughts?

Why then, isn't the OP an email if it's not intended to be discussed.  After all, if it were an email, nobody could comment on it.  Did I suddenly find myself on a private forum that I somehow accidentally registered to so that I could post?  No?  Then it's to be expected that, if you post something in a public forum, people are likely to comment on it.  If this fact bothers you, perhaps forums aren't for you?  It happens on every forum that I've ever been to in the last couple of decades.

However, a question, if you'll indulge me:  Do you just not post in threads who's titles you disagree with?

[element eater]

i dont want a new ending, i just dont want my game to finish in a pile of rubble.

its painful to finish that way after so long and loving the series so much

[3DandBeyond]

ATiBotka wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself. 

He's just an AI, I don't think he has physical look.

No, I know that.  I merely meant an appearance that more fully shows who or what he represents.  I see him as utilizing the kid's effigy to be deceptive or even sympathetic, though some see it as relatable.  As I also see it if he were to begin dissembling-programming falling apart-he might be more of the representation of the "so be it" effigy.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is actually one of the ways I suggested they could change it-that DLC would add to EMS and add on additional catalyst dialogue that would invalidate the kid and even maybe have him morph into a truer representation of himself. 

He's just an AI, I don't think he has physical look.

No, I know that.  I merely meant an appearance that more fully shows who or what he represents.  I see him as utilizing the kid's effigy to be deceptive or even sympathetic, though some see it as relatable.  As I also see it if he were to begin dissembling-programming falling apart-he might be more of the representation of the "so be it" effigy.

I would like him to use his real voice, than try to manipulate you with that kid voice

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...
Actually, you are the one that sounds rather traumatized-you wanted the galaxy to be a wasteland, relays completely destroyed.

Relays destroyed = wasteland? That nova theory isn't true anymore -- if you want to believe it was true pre-EC, it's not worth arguing over, though I'll state for the record that it was not. So we've still got space travel better than TNG-era Star Trek, and no more damage than had already happened. I don't see that as a wasteland. You're projecting.

I've gone through traumatizing things and I have suffered, but I don't dwell on them at all and I'm an extremely optimistic untraumatized person.  I have in fact been very lucky to be able to at times help others as well.

I'm just noticing an awful lot of emotional overreaction from you, especially lately. 

Alan, you have read plenty of my posts and then commented on them in disparaging ways, consistently.  You have never acted in a genuine manner when I've replied to you and explained my position, which you already knew.  You're playing games which again shows issues you assign to me.

If you mean that I don't agree with most of your tastes and many of your ideas, that's perfectly true.

ME was a game that never took itself too seriously.  Had I known the endings were going to be like some traumatized nightmare with super happy outcomes that are not in line with the choices made, I might well have skipped this game.  It wasn't called, "let's commit suicide" or any such thing as that and it was a game about "real" people choosing to fight for their future, not about a fantasy AI given or showing the hero a magical way to end it all.

I'm sorry you didn't skip it, for whatever that's worth.

I've also repeatedly answered this idea of yours that some "happier" ending would somehow hurt the ending you have.  You aren't forced to play anything other than what you have.  You've asserted that if one ending was happier people would only play that and I said this was not true.  If it was true, then that means the majority of people didn't get the ending they wanted-if you'd play the happier ending, you didn't get what you wanted.

This is confusing two different kinds of wants. What I want is different from what my Shepards want. My Shepards would all want a Destroy ending with no downsides, just like my DA:O Wardens would all prefer that Riordan kills the Archdaemon and avoids the whole DR business. I don't want those things. And a tragic ending I have to deliberately choose isn't a tragedy, it's Shepard making a horrible mistake. Which is OK sometimes -- I like having the horrible mistake of the Refuse ending available.

Edit: yes,  I'm mis-using "tragic" there. The colloquial usage gets the point across OK.

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 août 2012 - 09:26 .

[Hudathan]

If EC is not enough for you, not gonna happen.

There is no easy solution at the end because there is no easy solution to things such as life, peace, and conflict.

Modifié par Hudathan, 30 août 2012 - 09:28 .

[3DandBeyond]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The only thing that bothers me is that you think this is the *right* thing to do, as opposed to what you (and what is probably a majority of at least bsn users) want to do, making it more of a popular thing as opposed to the right thing.

Did you miss the part where I said I was expressing my opinion?

I guess in real life you must run around speaking as the Elcor do to be understood.  So when someone says the day is beautiful, you must qualify what you say.  "It's only my opinion, but yes it is a beautiful day."  Did I say that this was all 100% factual?  No, I expressed opinion. 

And since I also qualified it as something that would not even need to change what other players now have (if they are happy with that), then it would in no way have to affect you at all.  So, my opinion also is that you should not be forced to have any ending you don't like, but that others should be given an ending that they might at least like to some degree.  I have yet to be given some valid argument from anyone that is happy with the endings as to why it would be wrong to create even one minor scene (optional) for those that don't like the endings at all.  It's apparently insulting to their sensibilities or something for other customers to like the product they like.  Wouldn't the goal be better if it were to try to create the largest fanbase possible?

[Dragoonlordz]

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned. Maybe you will like the next game they make instead.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 août 2012 - 09:34 .

[ATiBotka]

AresKeith wrote...

I would like him to use his real voice, than try to manipulate you with that kid voice

I don't think he has a real voice either.

[GodSentinelOmega]

I will most definitely add my voice to this thread.

Yes there are many who like ME3s ending(s), but i just can't see it myself. No matter how many times i try to reason it out, i just can't accept the sudden theme shift and antagonist switch courtesy of glowstick boy.

There is a lot of great writing in ME3, a lot. But the powers that be bioware seem hellbent on retroactively justifying the morally indefensible end choices. So i say this.

Please Bioware, look back across your games and see what worked. Victory never came in your stories without consequence. But those victories also offered the option of honourable or questionable consequence, not forced tragedy and melancholic sacrifice for no reason other than 'these are the options. Choose or die!'

With dlc you could give those asking for different endings the option of having them. Survival and triumph, reunion and romace. The kind of nuanced story expansions you do so well.

It may not happen, but i'll offer my pleas anyway. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Xellith]

AlanC9 wrote...

Relays destroyed = wasteland? That nova theory isn't true anymore -- if you want to believe it was true pre-EC, it's not worth arguing over, though I'll state for the record that it was not. So we've still got space travel better than TNG-era Star Trek, and no more damage than had already happened. I don't see that as a wasteland. You're projecting.

It was a wasteland prior to a retcon.  Thats if you take what Mac Walters says as accurate.  I honestly dont believe most of what they say anymore...

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Xellith, 30 août 2012 - 09:36 .