6432 réponses à ce sujet

[webhead921]

OP, I can see where you are coming from, but my problem with this proposition is that this type of ending dlc would only work if we picked destroy. What would you think about an awakening type expansion, where we play as Shepard if she lived, but we play as another surviving squad mate if we picked synthesis or control?

[3DandBeyond]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Snip

So much hyperbole in that nonsense, I sure hope you don't expect me to take you seriously anymore. Firstly I did not say was opposed to reunion scenes, secondly I never insulted you. Thirdly how do you get refuse = win without Cvic or Uvic? Now you can argue symantics till end of time but in order to get refuse = win you have to do so via conventional or unconventional means.

I said that is one thing you stand almost no chance of ever getting but the others are more possible (imho). When questioned you earlier and asked you if all other DLCs were granted would you be happy with that, or not until you got your Cvic or Uvic. You left a rather bloated message which came down to no you would not be happy unless got your refuse = win via (Cvic or Uvic which is the only way possible).

I did give a good enough description of how could work with Omega DLC as example. You sure like hyperbole though, I never stole anyone's ideas, I never required or asked you to be thankful of anything I ever wrote and I never insulted all these people you claim I did. If you think me saying DLC made for specific groups is a more selfish than DLC made for all or as selfish as someone asking for one DLC to be made for them which takes time and money away from DLC another wants, if you consider that a direct insult to you then what your doing is called making mountains out of molehills.

Where do I ever state that I want refuse and only refuse and I must have refuse, give me refuse or else?  I never even suggested that as any way that I hoped realistically BW could do it.  Never once.  I've repeatedly said it would be nice but too expensive and invasive.  Repeatedly.  You just aren't reading. 

I and others have also repeatedly said that the bare miniminum we always wanted was at least one reunion scene and I've even given specific examples of how that could happen.  I have said this in many threads and in this one and you argued against anything and everything.  You just aren't reading.

You have always been opposed to anything that changed the endings, even if it was content you didn't buy.  Adding a reunion scene changes the destroy ending and putting it into Omega DLC changes it for everyone that buys Omega.  I assume you intend to buy Omega, so that would change the ending for you-that is something you didn't want to have happen.

I have never said I only ever wanted any kind of conventional/unconventional victory with or without refuse.  In fact, as I've said I even created a thread with a link in my tagline that shows how bit by bit destroy could be easy to achieve.  I have consistently maintained that the easiest and least invasive way to do all this was through a real destroy.  You obviously have me confused with someone else.

And yes you have insulted me.  You have called me selfish (which is not kind and is insulting), when I have repeatedly asserted one of the most unselfish ways to try and do this.  Ways that would not affect you at all and that could result in returned fans to BW and more DLC for all.

I have suggested destroy with a fully intact crucible that targets only the reapers-but is difficult to achieve.  And the opposite could happen much like in low EMS is now.

I don't know how many different ways I can state this-I have said it over and over again, but you continue to lie.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think what we've been asking for is a less polluted destroy ending.

* synthesis is the disney ending where although Shepard dies everyone and their local friendly husk get along fine, and everything gets rebuilt with the help of the reapers in no time. Even Batarians and Humans get along. Krogans and Turians love each other. We're all the same now, that's the sacrifice.

* control despite the fact that Shepard dies, is more of the Law & Order ending. (hence the blue) where the Shreapalyst is the head cop, judge and jury of the galaxy, keeping a watchful eye over those who live on, while rebuilding what was lost, and protecting and defending the innocent, helping those too weak to make it on their own, and destroying those who threaten the will of the many.

* but destroy? destroy gets rid of the reapers, starboy, the geth, EDI + all other AIs. It leaves all the destruction in its wake including all the relay damage, Citadel damage, and all the destruction on each world, but there's a chance Shepard lives.... in a pile of rubble, but a chance Shepard lives.

So a reunion + removing the destruction of the geth, EDI and other AIs from the Destroy ending would make Destroy too sugar coated, compared to the others? That's what the original question was. Now factor in Leviathan and Omega.

Because I guess if those two things were removed, would any of you choose Control or Synthesis?

But I'm not unreasonable. I'm willing to compromise. I know we'll never get the less polluted destroy ending.

[3DandBeyond]

webhead921 wrote...

OP, I can see where you are coming from, but my problem with this proposition is that this type of ending dlc would only work if we picked destroy. What would you think about an awakening type expansion, where we play as Shepard if she lived, but we play as another surviving squad mate if we picked synthesis or control?

Well as I see it nothing is off the table.  My initial intent here was to get BW to notice the passion behind all this-the love we've had for the characters and the game.

I don't personally like those choices as they now are, so I think that's for others to make that case.  However, consider this.  The kid describes destroy and says the crucible is largely intact.  This to me is linked with it not discriminating in its targeting.  The cause is either because it's incomplete or damaged.  But, why is this only a problem for destroy?  Why couldn't there be some alternate thing that could happen in control and synthesis if you complete or protect the crucible more fully.  Now, it should be hard to achieve the needed piece or pieces to do any of this-and it would be coupled with EMS.  I leave it to you to consider what that could mean for those 2 endings and I think that could add interesting versions of the 2.

The other thing is, I think if there was a lot of interest built up due to some real variances, then post-ending DLC could be great as well.  In Destroy, the galaxy is still a mess-needs rebuilding, fires put out (you now renegades and dissenters to be brought back in line) and other things.  In Synthesis and Control there could be other real outcomes that could be explored and much more.  As I see it, what could take place post game with DLC could be a lot of expansion game type scenarios.  That's a possibility.  Even IT is IMO.  I don't rule anything out and I'm not saying everyone has to agree with my version of anything.

What I am saying is that from reading a lot of posts and seeing what new threads pop up, there is stil a desire for some real victory and destroy could do that.  I don't see a real one right now, for me and a lot of people do want one, so I've suggested ways to get there.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Snip

So much hyperbole in that nonsense, I sure hope you don't expect me to take you seriously anymore. Firstly I did not say was opposed to reunion scenes, secondly I never insulted you. Thirdly how do you get refuse = win without Cvic or Uvic? Now you can argue symantics till end of time but in order to get refuse = win you have to do so via conventional or unconventional means.

I said that is one thing you stand almost no chance of ever getting but the others are more possible (imho). When questioned you earlier and asked you if all other DLCs were granted would you be happy with that, or not until you got your Cvic or Uvic. You left a rather bloated message which came down to no you would not be happy unless got your refuse = win via (Cvic or Uvic which is the only way possible).

I did give a good enough description of how could work with Omega DLC as example. You sure like hyperbole though, I never stole anyone's ideas, I never required or asked you to be thankful of anything I ever wrote and I never insulted all these people you claim I did. If you think me saying DLC made for specific groups is a more selfish than DLC made for all or as selfish as someone asking for one DLC to be made for them which takes time and money away from DLC another wants, if you consider that a direct insult to you then what your doing is called making mountains out of molehills.

Where do I ever state that I want refuse and only refuse and I must have refuse, give me refuse or else?  I never even suggested that as any way that I hoped realistically BW could do it.  Never once.  I've repeatedly said it would be nice but too expensive and invasive.  Repeatedly.  You just aren't reading. 

I and others have also repeatedly said that the bare miniminum we always wanted was at least one reunion scene and I've even given specific examples of how that could happen.  I have said this in many threads and in this one and you argued against anything and everything.  You just aren't reading.

You have always been opposed to anything that changed the endings, even if it was content you didn't buy.  Adding a reunion scene changes the destroy ending and putting it into Omega DLC changes it for everyone that buys Omega.  I assume you intend to buy Omega, so that would change the ending for you-that is something you didn't want to have happen.

I have never said I only ever wanted any kind of conventional/unconventional victory with or without refuse.  In fact, as I've said I even created a thread with a link in my tagline that shows how bit by bit destroy could be easy to achieve.  I have consistently maintained that the easiest and least invasive way to do all this was through a real destroy.  You obviously have me confused with someone else.

And yes you have insulted me.  You have called me selfish (which is not kind and is insulting), when I have repeatedly asserted one of the most unselfish ways to try and do this.  Ways that would not affect you at all and that could result in returned fans to BW and more DLC for all.

I have suggested destroy with a fully intact crucible that targets only the reapers-but is difficult to achieve.  And the opposite could happen much like in low EMS is now.

I don't know how many different ways I can state this-I have said it over and over again, but you continue to lie.

She's right, you know. I've read it. Sorry. You have stated that what she was requesting  would break the story.

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Where do I ever state that I want refuse and only refuse and I must have refuse, give me refuse or else?  I never even suggested that as any way that I hoped realistically BW could do it.  Never once.  I've repeatedly said it would be nice but too expensive and invasive.  Repeatedly.  You just aren't reading. 

I and others have also repeatedly said that the bare miniminum we always wanted was at least one reunion scene and I've even given specific examples of how that could happen.  I have said this in many threads and in this one and you argued against anything and everything.  You just aren't reading.

You have always been opposed to anything that changed the endings, even if it was content you didn't buy.  Adding a reunion scene changes the destroy ending and putting it into Omega DLC changes it for everyone that buys Omega.  I assume you intend to buy Omega, so that would change the ending for you-that is something you didn't want to have happen.

I have never said I only ever wanted any kind of conventional/unconventional victory with or without refuse.  In fact, as I've said I even created a thread with a link in my tagline that shows how bit by bit destroy could be easy to achieve.  I have consistently maintained that the easiest and least invasive way to do all this was through a real destroy.  You obviously have me confused with someone else.

And yes you have insulted me.  You have called me selfish (which is not kind and is insulting), when I have repeatedly asserted one of the most unselfish ways to try and do this.  Ways that would not affect you at all and that could result in returned fans to BW and more DLC for all.

I have suggested destroy with a fully intact crucible that targets only the reapers-but is difficult to achieve.  And the opposite could happen much like in low EMS is now.

I don't know how many different ways I can state this-I have said it over and over again, but you continue to lie.

Hyperbole followed by more hyperbole in your post. I said I am opposed to changing the main plot. Invalidating the catalyst as means to undermine the writers and the story Bioware wished to create even by proxy of DLC or adding choices that destroy the balance of the other choices for same reason. My suggestions made do not do that, your does. I explained that is the one thing that Bioware will not do but the other three are possible aka reunion scene, Harbinger pre-ending DLC, assets having direct impact limited to Priority Earth and not ending changing plus more emotional impact of refuse but remaining within the confines of writers intentions and work that went into the story Bioware created meaning loss yes but more emotionally engaging variation.

One last thing, if you think I did not read what you said prior which is fallacy to begin with then be assured after that much hyperbole and nonsense in your last post you can be sure I have no intention of reading anything else you have to say from this point on. For someone calling another a liar I find it amusing that you find it insulting to imply DLC created for one taking away time and money from DLC created for another being a selfish action is insulting. It is common sense not insulting unless your insulted by common sense. Since any attempt to progress discussion on this topic by me is ignored by you and you reply so often with accusations and hyperbole I think this is the last time I will post here. Consider this potential support lost due to your actions and not the only support have lost along the way due to the stubbornness of your stance and unwillingness to discuss compromise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:58 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Can you two just give it a rest?

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I think what we've been asking for is a less polluted destroy ending.

* synthesis is the disney ending where although Shepard dies everyone and their local friendly husk get along fine, and everything gets rebuilt with the help of the reapers in no time. Even Batarians and Humans get along. Krogans and Turians love each other. We're all the same now, that's the sacrifice.

* control despite the fact that Shepard dies, is more of the Law & Order ending. (hence the blue) where the Shreapalyst is the head cop, judge and jury of the galaxy, keeping a watchful eye over those who live on, while rebuilding what was lost, and protecting and defending the innocent, helping those too weak to make it on their own, and destroying those who threaten the will of the many.

* but destroy? destroy gets rid of the reapers, starboy, the geth, EDI + all other AIs. It leaves all the destruction in its wake including all the relay damage, Citadel damage, and all the destruction on each world, but there's a chance Shepard lives.... in a pile of rubble, but a chance Shepard lives.

So a reunion + removing the destruction of the geth, EDI and other AIs from the Destroy ending would make Destroy too sugar coated, compared to the others? That's what the original question was. Now factor in Leviathan and Omega.

Because I guess if those two things were removed, would any of you choose Control or Synthesis?

But I'm not unreasonable. I'm willing to compromise. I know we'll never get the less polluted destroy ending.

I know for a fact that the Control and Synthesis supporters would still chose those endings

[Ghost]

FFS what's up with the walls of text?

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I think what we've been asking for is a less polluted destroy ending.

* synthesis is the disney ending where although Shepard dies everyone and their local friendly husk get along fine, and everything gets rebuilt with the help of the reapers in no time. Even Batarians and Humans get along. Krogans and Turians love each other. We're all the same now, that's the sacrifice.

* control despite the fact that Shepard dies, is more of the Law & Order ending. (hence the blue) where the Shreapalyst is the head cop, judge and jury of the galaxy, keeping a watchful eye over those who live on, while rebuilding what was lost, and protecting and defending the innocent, helping those too weak to make it on their own, and destroying those who threaten the will of the many.

* but destroy? destroy gets rid of the reapers, starboy, the geth, EDI + all other AIs. It leaves all the destruction in its wake including all the relay damage, Citadel damage, and all the destruction on each world, but there's a chance Shepard lives.... in a pile of rubble, but a chance Shepard lives.

So a reunion + removing the destruction of the geth, EDI and other AIs from the Destroy ending would make Destroy too sugar coated, compared to the others? That's what the original question was. Now factor in Leviathan and Omega.

Because I guess if those two things were removed, would any of you choose Control or Synthesis?

But I'm not unreasonable. I'm willing to compromise. I know we'll never get the less polluted destroy ending.

Well, I've also had the debate with someone else (a few people) who said they never picked destroy and liked a different choice.  He said he never wanted some happy ending and liked Shepard dying and all.  This person said he wouldn't like destroy if destroy had no cost to it-it would become canon and everyone would choose it.  I can easily see the problem with this.  If he liked Shepard dying and never picked destroy, anyway it would never be canon for him and he'd still never pick it.  I said if everyone would choose it that means a lot of people were missing an ending they'd like.

Another person told me the same thing-it would be wrong because too many people would choose it.  Well, that makes no sense.  If a lot of people want it and would choose it, that means it's something that is missing in the game.  It also means it could be potentially profitable for BW.  And, what is funny about that is if I had one happier (not super happy bunnies) ending, I probably would play the synthesis ending which I have yet to play-the one I've youtubed.  I'd even go for renegade endings and play for a variety because the game would be fun again.  And, I coiuld still get back to a better ending that I really like when I'm done.

[3DandBeyond]

Ghost1017 wrote...

FFS what's up with the walls of text?

It's buy one word get ten free day.

[D24O]

Ghost1017 wrote...

FFS what's up with the walls of text?

Has it been like that all 140 pages?

Man, I wish I could write as much as you guys, I'd be done with all my essays for the simester.

Modifié par D24O, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[Ghost]

HTH do you guys do it?

[3DandBeyond]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

For someone calling another a liar I find it amusing that you find it insulting to imply DLC created for one taking away time and money from DLC created for another being a selfish action is insulting.

Never called you a liar, but said you lied in some very specific instances and you did.  You never implied I was selfish, you said I was being selfish and that is insulting.

I have suggested things that could lead to money for more DLC and that would not change your game and I thought that was being fairly unselfish.

I am so glad to live in my world.

[3DandBeyond]

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

Monkeys, trained monkeys.  At least that's what I do.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Perhaps I'm in the wrong line of thought, but I never expected to lose Commander Shepard. I thouht I might lose [Shepard's] friends, but not Shepard. After all the feats Shepard has accomplished: barely getting out of the facility on Therum, stopping Saren (the galaxy's best Spectre) and Sovereign, surviving the destruction of the Normandy at the hands of the Collectors and coming back as Terminator 2.0, surviving several cases of alcohol poisoning, headbutting a Krogan clan leader on Tuchanka, killing a Thresher Maw, saving his squad multiple times over, blowing up a Geth space station, annihilating the Collectors and coming out of a suicide mission unscathed, going toe-to-toe with the Reapers, fighting hordes of husks, geth, mercs, risking their neck innumerable times while the galaxy is fighting the ultimate war of attrition against giant, omnipotent space cuttlefish; the list goes on.

"The **** you did..." I didn't think it was possible for you to die.

Shepard's death was still always a possibility in the back of my mind, but if they were going to die, they had better "Go out with the biggest ****ing bang the world has ever seen!" Instead, our protaganist either dies by giving themself up in a ritualistic sacrafice to save the galaxy or they asphyxiate under a pile of rubble on the Citadel. Both are incredibly weak and painfully contrived. What the hell is the point of anything, be it dramatic effect, symbolism, thematic recurrence, etc, if it is not a naturally occurring part of the story?

I would be upset if Shepard died, but I would expect them to go out in a blaze of glory, to go out like Dom in GoW3, Jack Sparrow in Dead Man's Chest, Ashley/Kaidan on Virmire, Minh Young Kim in GoW, Grunt on Utukku, John Marston in RDR, Noble 6 in Halo:Reach, Duncan in DA:O, Liam Neeson in The Grey...

To end it all like that... it is insulting; to Mass Effect, to the player, and above all, to Shepard.

I fail to see the reprecussions of "invalidating" something that already breaks the narrative.

I also fail to see how an extended Destroy ending or a successful high-EMS rejection of the Catalyst would inhibit the others endings; the latter only being somewhat detrimental to Destroy - the worst and easiest to acquire ending.

Synthesis supporters will still be Synthesis supporters; Controllers will still be Controllers. They are still both viable from a roleplaying perspective.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 11 septembre 2012 - 03:03 .

[D24O]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

Monkeys, trained monkeys.  At least that's what I do.

Man, I gotta get me some monkeys.

[AresKeith]

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

I call it Writer's mind, person with a Ashley Avatar lol

[Ghost]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

Monkeys, trained monkeys.  At least that's what I do.

FFS I gotta try it sometime unless my sig counts.

[Ghost]

AresKeith wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

I call it Writer's mind, person with a Ashley Avatar lol

Hey suit rats!

You take your homeworld back?

[3DandBeyond]

Ghost1017 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

Monkeys, trained monkeys.  At least that's what I do.

FFS I gotta try it sometime unless my sig counts.

Yes, you are an official member of the WoT club.  Secret handshake and aluminum foil wrapped hat will be explained later.  Meet us all by the special tree in 3 hours.

[Ghost]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

Monkeys, trained monkeys.  At least that's what I do.

FFS I gotta try it sometime unless my sig counts.

Yes, you are an official member of the WoT club.  Secret handshake and aluminum foil wrapped hat will be explained later.  Meet us all by the special tree in 3 hours.

I should make a group.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Dee, I think Seival was mad earlier because soon your thread will exceed his ending support threads in posts.

[AresKeith]

Ghost1017 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

I call it Writer's mind, person with a Ashley Avatar lol

Hey suit rats!

You take your homeworld back?

yes we did and working with the Geth, Primitive

[Ghost]

AresKeith wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

HTH do you guys do it?

I call it Writer's mind, person with a Ashley Avatar lol

Hey suit rats!

You take your homeworld back?

yes we did and working with the Geth, Primitive

I remember when your race was attractive, Primitive