6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned.

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

[MerchantGOL]

i hate the whole "Games are supposed to be fun and uplifting" it sets every step game writers have taken in the last 10 years back.

Listen Games tell a story, some stories will be bleak and depressing, a game about an entire galaxy at war should be bleak, iam sorry some people didn't get their cliche ending, but you need to deal with it. the last thing i wanted was for mass effect to end like GOW3


this Self entitlement has got to stop.

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 30 août 2012 - 09:42 .

[Hudathan]

Should change the title to 'One Last Plea - Give Us What We Want'. Either be honest about wanting your own personal preferences and opinions reflected in the ending, or be prepared to defend your ideas as absolutely 'right'. Otherwise don't tell Bioware to 'Do The Right Thing'.

[Ieldra]

@3DandBeyond:
I was just thinking of a parallel to your proposed "high EMS Destroy" option I would like. That would be a Synthesis-like ending where I'm not forcing a biochemical change on everything. Maybe in form of some super-technology people can use to affect themselves. Or not. Or by getting Shepard synthesized who then proceeds to spread the word and the Synthesis template, leaving people to decide if they want it or not.

Would I want that? Hell yes! I would pay for it! Contrary to appearances perhaps, I am not comfortable at all with how it's brought about. But that alone, without touching the other options in similar ways, would unbalance the endings.

I also think that the presence of these "uncomfortable" elements in all options, things we seriously, passionately feel we don't want, are part of the core design of the ending scenario. It's the message they wanted to send by making the endings this way, that winning the war might have some significant cost we get to feel as players. Given by the reaction, perhaps that wasn't the best idea they ever had, but I can accept it.

Anyway, if Bioware retouches Destroy in the way you want, they should also retouch the other options.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 août 2012 - 09:44 .

[Legbiter]

It's been 6 months. Time to move on.

[JasonDaPsycho]

I feel you, my friend. I'm doubtful they will, though, since EA is a follower. It follows trends without analyzing them.

[mjb203]

3DandBeyond,

Excellent OP. I couldn't agree more on it. You certainly captured all of my thoughts on what I felt was missing and how it could be better. I certainly feel that the "synthetics will also die if you pick destroy" was a horrible attempt to attach a consequence to a choice, as it comes out of left field. "Why aren't non-Reaper synthetics controlled in Control?" is one of the many questions I was left with after youtubing the other endings (I picked destroy, you know, since it was the entire driving force behind all three of the games).

[MegaSovereign]

Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

Not to sound arrogant but I simply couldn't continue reading after this.

That's a massive over-simplification of what the endings actually are. Especially by calling Destroy "genocide." That's like saying Shepard murdered the victim left behind at Virmire. And this is wrong. Both instances are actually collateral damage.


Above all "Do the Right Thing" implies that Bioware did something wrong. Step back for a second and consider the fact that this is just a videogame. If you do that then you would understand why your plea is silly.

[JamieCOTC]

Thanks to the inconsistency of the writing, the Catalyst comes off as a nutjob in the final confrontation, (now w/ even more ridiculousness thanks to Leviathan). So for me it's easy to headcanon just about anything into any of the four endings. BW doesn't need to add an alternate ending. They already did, though not on purpose.

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned.

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

I explained why it shouldn't in the very thing which you quoted.

In fact both paragraphs actually explains in relation to that very issue. That was their purpose.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 août 2012 - 09:48 .

[3DandBeyond]

Hudathan wrote...

If EC is not enough for you, not gonna happen.

There is no easy solution at the end because there is no easy solution to things such as life, peace, and conflict.

You didn't read my long post if you think that's what I want.
The galaxy is a mess and it must be dealt with in the aftermath.  Whole colonies have been destroyed, planets are in ruins, and these endings reflect that, how?

Everything will be easily fixed, people will hold hands and sing together and praise their new reaper overlords or what?

You also missed the discussion about how many of us fully understand things such as life, peace, and conflict.

Here's a new idea-anyone from now on that wants to tell someone else they don't understand that bad things can happen, must explain something bad that has happened to them to prove that they first also understand it.  I do understand it.

This game was never advertised as Shepard trying to get to understand the reapers and give up and die in order to choose some easy way out with no real consequences.

You see, I fully believe the games should have showed those real consequences.  Thessis in ruins, Earth nearly obliterated, Palaven burning, billions dead and dying, and so on.  It should have honored that sacrifice and not glossed it all over.  And the aftermath needed to be real.  Just as the goal should have remained the goal, in order to be authentic.  My opinion.  The trailers said, "Take Earth Back", but you don't.  You get to ask for it back.

[SpamBot2000]

No, it's been like 2 months. More for some, less for others. For those who can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everybody played at the exact time they did.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 30 août 2012 - 09:49 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

Well, not if you're willing to pay, but if enough people are, sure. I'm a firm believer in the ability of a consumer to influence the direction of a product, through collective action.

But in Mass Effect's case, that time is past. The 80k+ numbers of people storming the forums together under the banner of Retake are mostly gone. Alot of people are either content with the EC, gave up on the series, or just don't care about a Shepard reunion. The media wasn't 100% receptive last time we tried and I doubt they would encourage a "Round 2", even from the ones who supported us.

To put it another way: there's nothing wrong with your desire. It just doesn't quite have the "oomph" of appeal which was there when Retake first started out. It seems an exercise in futility, especially since there never was a united set of criteria which all the retakers were fighting for.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 30 août 2012 - 09:51 .

[NightAntilli]

Well-written, but, I can't agree on everything. And that's the pickle that BioWare is in. They will never make everyone happy.

I for one do not want a happy ending with rainbows, flowers and ponies. I don't have the need to see Shepard with the crew after the reapers are destroyed. Knowing he fulfilled his purpose is enough. The issue is, that whatever he fulfilled was presented in a confusing and seemingly incomplete manner. Now that Leviathan is out, the implications on destroy are very unpleasant, and I can't help but feel that there is more information that is missing before we can make an adequate choice, or feel enough closure on Shepard's story.

[3DandBeyond]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned.

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

I explained why it shouldn't in the very thing which you quoted.

If people would pay for it, it would increase the likelihood of other DLC being made, it would add to resources BW would have to make more content and nothing I've suggested would take time or attention away from Omega-it could go hand in hand with that.  In fact, all that I have suggested would be adding to EMS and changing some dialogue for the kid and then adding some minor content to just the destroy ending-slide show, narration by Shepard instead of Hackett and even some other minor changes.  It would be a bit more than what they changed with Leviathan and considering they could release 4 DLCs for ME3 (or even more if well-received), it could be very minor changes with each new DLC.  It would be a win-win for all of us.  You'd certainly get more DLC, because more people would want to buy it if it rehabilitated the game for them.  That is my question.  You see it as pulling resources away and I see it as adding to those resources so you get more game and I get an ending.

[nevar00]

I'd pay just to see the entire ME 3 game redone without such lazy writing and linear gameplay. Of course that will never happen.

Things won't change, and threads like these could just be contained into one.

[Dragoonlordz]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

No, it's been like 2 months. More for some, less for others. For those who can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everybody played at the exact time they did.

Makes no difference. You could buy the game 50 years from now and it would not be any more valid to demand they make new endings then anymore so than almost 7 months since the game came out now. I bet they have even started thinking about ME4 at this stage in the studio itself, possible plot and storylines. Time does not stand still, it has moved on and EC was the only ending DLC they said willing to do.The first few months it was understandable even if disgusting how some went about it by asking for changes but not at this stage. It's just getting silly now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 août 2012 - 09:57 .

[Xellith]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

Not to sound arrogant but I simply couldn't continue reading after this.

That's a massive over-simplification of what the endings actually are. Especially by calling Destroy "genocide." That's like saying Shepard murdered the victim left behind at Virmire. And this is wrong. Both instances are actually collateral damage.


Above all "Do the Right Thing" implies that Bioware did something wrong. Step back for a second and consider the fact that this is just a videogame. If you do that then you would understand why your plea is silly.

Control.  You die.  Your mind is uploaded.  Your mind depending on if you were paragon or renegade will either enslave the reapers and use them to protect everyone or enslave the reapers and use them as part of an army that nobody would dare oppose.  The fact that Synthesis allows each individual reaper to be a "person" does go to show that each individual "reaper" is in fact now enslaved.

Synthesis.  You forcibly change everyone in the galaxy to be something they are not.  If this changes the way you reason or evaluate problems and situations then you have been compromised as a person.  You arnt technically "you".  Just like how the AI shepard isnt technically shepard.  Everyone is forced into being something they are not.  Everyone is made "the same".

Destroy.  You wipe out every single reaper.  Every single geth and any and all other Synthetic life in the galaxy both known and unknown.  Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group",  You are clearly told you would destroy the reapers and the geth.  Sure its collateral damage - but its still genocide.  Just as destroying the Batarian relay was genocide.

In each of those scenarios you die.  Destroy is debatable depending on what you choose to speculate on.  The Reapers are defeated and the cycle ended.

Modifié par Xellith, 30 août 2012 - 09:57 .

[SpamBot2000]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

No, it's been like 2 months. More for some, less for others. For those who can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everybody played at the exact time they did.

Makes no difference. You could buy the game 50 years from now and it would not be any more valid to demand they make new endings then anymore so than almost 7 months since the game came out now. I bet they have even started thinking about ME4 at this stage in the studio itself, possible plot and storylines.

Well, almost 6 months to be accurate. And ME3 is still unfinished. As for ME4, don't see it happening. Because that's why the endings were what they were, to make it impossible to make a sequel. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 30 août 2012 - 09:58 .

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned.

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

I explained why it shouldn't in the very thing which you quoted.

If people would pay for it, it would increase the likelihood of other DLC being made, it would add to resources BW would have to make more content and nothing I've suggested would take time or attention away from Omega-it could go hand in hand with that.  In fact, all that I have suggested would be adding to EMS and changing some dialogue for the kid and then adding some minor content to just the destroy ending-slide show, narration by Shepard instead of Hackett and even some other minor changes.  It would be a bit more than what they changed with Leviathan and considering they could release 4 DLCs for ME3 (or even more if well-received), it could be very minor changes with each new DLC.  It would be a win-win for all of us.  You'd certainly get more DLC, because more people would want to buy it if it rehabilitated the game for them.  That is my question.  You see it as pulling resources away and I see it as adding to those resources so you get more game and I get an ending.

This is selfish reasoning.

They already pushed back their DLC schedule for the EC. Releasing more ending DLC would push other DLCs back. Those that are already happy with the EC (which there are a lot of according to polls on social sites) would want new DLCs, not reimaginings of the current ones.

They're not going to release premium ending DLC to satisfy your specific criteria. Which was what Dragoonlordz's point was. If the endings really bother you that much then its time to move on.

[3DandBeyond]

NightAntilli wrote...

Well-written, but, I can't agree on everything. And that's the pickle that BioWare is in. They will never make everyone happy.

I for one do not want a happy ending with rainbows, flowers and ponies. I don't have the need to see Shepard with the crew after the reapers are destroyed. Knowing he fulfilled his purpose is enough. The issue is, that whatever he fulfilled was presented in a confusing and seemingly incomplete manner. Now that Leviathan is out, the implications on destroy are very unpleasant, and I can't help but feel that there is more information that is missing before we can make an adequate choice, or feel enough closure on Shepard's story.

You didn't understand my meaning then.  I don't know why this always has to be explained, but here goes.  A Shepard lives ending is not bunnies and rainbows-the galaxy is a mess.  But, a Shepard lives ending wouldn't be handed to the player-one would have to work to get it.  And some minor reunion scene wouldn't even have to take place for everyone.  For instance, say you did get to the Shepard lives difficult to achieve ending, you might get the choice to be left alone or to greet everyone in some way after being pulled from the rubble.  Just as in you could refuse certain love scenes in the game if you wanted to.  I'm not indicating that people should be forced into it at all.  In fact, I'm saying you could still have the endings you now have if that's what works for you.

Leviathan already makes a mockery of destroy as shown-where the heck are the leviathans at the end?  Nowhere.  So, why couldn't that be left for some future conflict since apparently the DLC was never about using them anyway?  Perhaps once you get rid of the reapers, the Leviathans will return once they have built up their numbers and they will be the new evil to face.

What I'm saying is why not add to it and in destroy have one scene that you could get that clearly shows Shepard dies or lives or is left as is now?  But just include one possibility of getting to an outcome that saves EDI, the geth, and Shepard.

No bunnies and rainbows, but again the endings we have are way too happy for the most part in the "epilogues".  To me, there's nothing real about them.

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It's fine if dislike the endings, the first month it was reasonable to ask for changes though I feel the way many went about it at that time left me feeling they not deserve to have any changes made. Second month even then is rational to specify what changes would like to take place in the EC. But almost seven months on now it is no longer amusing, rational or reasonable to expect them to go back and change it again after EC came out. It is merely denial and unhealthy form of it too.

It won't happen and it shouldn't happen (imho). After seven months almost it is time to accept that your not going to get everything you want, that it is not going to be remade to your specifications and that instead of wasting more time and money on remaking the ending they should produce content for those who like the game and will keep refunding it's development cost for future DLC. Leviathan was pretty entertaining especially in parts, now they should focus their time and attention on Omega DLC as far as I am concerned.

Why shouldn't it happen if I'm willing to pay for it and if it is optional-which means you wouldn't ever have to even play it?  Well, it's also nice to label it as unhealthy-you don't know me or anyone else here.

I'm truly interested in all these people that for some reason think this kind of thing is threatening to themselves personally.

I explained why it shouldn't in the very thing which you quoted.

If people would pay for it, it would increase the likelihood of other DLC being made, it would add to resources BW would have to make more content and nothing I've suggested would take time or attention away from Omega-it could go hand in hand with that.  In fact, all that I have suggested would be adding to EMS and changing some dialogue for the kid and then adding some minor content to just the destroy ending-slide show, narration by Shepard instead of Hackett and even some other minor changes.  It would be a bit more than what they changed with Leviathan and considering they could release 4 DLCs for ME3 (or even more if well-received), it could be very minor changes with each new DLC.  It would be a win-win for all of us.  You'd certainly get more DLC, because more people would want to buy it if it rehabilitated the game for them.  That is my question.  You see it as pulling resources away and I see it as adding to those resources so you get more game and I get an ending.

This is selfish reasoning.

They already pushed back their DLC schedule for the EC. Releasing more ending DLC would push other DLCs back. Those that are already happy with the EC (which there are a lot of according to polls on social sites) would want new DLCs, not reimaginings of the current ones.

They're not going to release premium ending DLC to satisfy your specific criteria. Which was what Dragoonlordz's point was. If the endings really bother you that much then its time to move on.

And this is selfish too. In fact, even more so, since the objective is to please the happy even more. 

[MegaSovereign]

Xellith wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

Not to sound arrogant but I simply couldn't continue reading after this.

That's a massive over-simplification of what the endings actually are. Especially by calling Destroy "genocide." That's like saying Shepard murdered the victim left behind at Virmire. And this is wrong. Both instances are actually collateral damage.


Above all "Do the Right Thing" implies that Bioware did something wrong. Step back for a second and consider the fact that this is just a videogame. If you do that then you would understand why your plea is silly.

Control.  You die.  Your mind is uploaded.  Your mind depending on if you were paragon or renegade will either enslave the reapers and use them to protect everyone or enslave the reapers and use them as part of an army that nobody would dare oppose.  The fact that Synthesis allows each individual reaper to be a "person" does go to show that each individual "reaper" is in fact now enslaved.

Synthesis.  You forcibly change everyone in the galaxy to be something they are not.  If this changes the way you reason or evaluate problems and situations then you have been compromised as a person.  You arnt technically "you".  Just like how the AI shepard isnt technically shepard.  Everyone is forced into being something they are not.  Everyone is made "the same".

Destroy.  You wipe out every single reaper.  Every single geth and any and all other Synthetic life in the galaxy both known and unknown.  Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group",  You are clearly told you would destroy the reapers and the geth.  Sure its collateral damage - but its still genocide.  Just as destroying the Batarian relay was genocide.

In each of those scenarios you die.  Destroy is debatable depending on what you choose to speculate on.  The Reapers are defeated and the cycle ended.

LOL

Why should you care about the ethics of controlling a Reaper? They're Reapers. They're. ****ing. Reapers.

As for Destroy, I never denied it was genocide. I just think this is a massive oversimplification. The blame should be put on the Reapers as they forced Shepard's hand on this. If Destroy is genocide then leaving the Virmire victim behind is murder....See why oversimplifications are misleading?

And this is selfish too. In fact, even more so, since the objective is to please the happy even more.

But according to those polls there are far more people who are satisfied with the EC.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 30 août 2012 - 10:04 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Xellith wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

Not to sound arrogant but I simply couldn't continue reading after this.

That's a massive over-simplification of what the endings actually are. Especially by calling Destroy "genocide." That's like saying Shepard murdered the victim left behind at Virmire. And this is wrong. Both instances are actually collateral damage.


Above all "Do the Right Thing" implies that Bioware did something wrong. Step back for a second and consider the fact that this is just a videogame. If you do that then you would understand why your plea is silly.

Control.  You die.  Your mind is uploaded.  Your mind depending on if you were paragon or renegade will either enslave the reapers and use them to protect everyone or enslave the reapers and use them as part of an army that nobody would dare oppose.  The fact that Synthesis allows each individual reaper to be a "person" does go to show that each individual "reaper" is in fact now enslaved.

Synthesis.  You forcibly change everyone in the galaxy to be something they are not.  If this changes the way you reason or evaluate problems and situations then you have been compromised as a person.  You arnt technically "you".  Just like how the AI shepard isnt technically shepard.  Everyone is forced into being something they are not.  Everyone is made "the same".

Destroy.  You wipe out every single reaper.  Every single geth and any and all other Synthetic life in the galaxy both known and unknown.  Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group",  You are clearly told you would destroy the reapers and the geth.  Sure its collateral damage - but its still genocide.  Just as destroying the Batarian relay was genocide.

In each of those scenarios you die.  Destroy is debatable depending on what you choose to speculate on.  The Reapers are defeated and the cycle ended.

There's a few flaws in your logic here. Firstly you have no evidence that you die in control, you change and your body dies but same can be said about those who are religious and believe in a soul. Their bodies die too yet they believe they live on in a different form. Control change is also merely a different form. Secondly you say it was genocide in Arrival so by your logic you do not become genocidal at the end of ME3, you remain genocidal since Arrival so why are you not asking for Arrival to change instead of ME3 ending? Arrival made you genocidal not the ME3 ending by your logic.