6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Benchpress610]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Every lead writer has a different vision & I said i was not 100% sure on it
Drew left in middle of me 2 scrpt for swtor
Possible ending, drew wanted dark energy

You didn't say you weren't sure until now.  Either way we really don't know how far that goes and "closure" is still speculative based on person to person.

You quoted what Troxa said and that included that Troxa was not 100% sure.  Please stop with the argumentative derailing of the thread.  Honestly, if someone says they like yellow, you say red is best.  You argue about the most minor points.  Please stop and stay on topic.

I'm saying he died mention the 100% until that comment, which I previously said.

Enough, we all know what you did because we can read.  Enough.  I'm not ignorant of what you do in all threads.  It's obvious.  You continually state the same junk over and over again and disregard the totality of what someone says just to argue.  You best exemplify what you are doing by posting.  You just want to force people to run away by all this. 

It's off topic continually and you are doing that intentionally.  Why?  Who knows.  You have yet to state anything within this thread that is relevant to the discussion.  Please post when you can do that and then stop picking out quotes just to argue with.

Bubbles 2.0

[Benchpress610]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Hmm, wonder if they could add in something or a variable to do with the Keepers. That way they can assist with bypassing the Kid. They've been there for quite some time on the citidel, whos to say how many Cruibles they saw being built? Maybe they know of another path to take with it.

That's a fantastic idea!

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

Hmm, wonder if they could add in something or a variable to do with the Keepers. That way they can assist with bypassing the Kid. They've been there for quite some time on the citidel, whos to say how many Cruibles they saw being built? Maybe they know of another path to take with it.

That's a fantastic idea!

I agree.  Maybe the keepers are the key.  Heck, on the xbox there's an ad for Leviathan that pops up to get you to buy it and it says Leviathan is the key.  I think we need to find the lock.  The keepers will set us free.  Keeper 20, specifically.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 13 septembre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Xamufam]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

Hmm, wonder if they could add in something or a variable to do with the Keepers. That way they can assist with bypassing the Kid. They've been there for quite some time on the citidel, whos to say how many Cruibles they saw being built? Maybe they know of another path to take with it.

That's a fantastic idea!

I agree.  Maybe the keepers are the key.  Heck, on the xbox there's an ad for Leviathan that pops up to get you to buy it and it says Leviathan is the key.  I think we need to find the lock.  The keepers will set us free.  Keeper 20, specifically.

I think the keepers are the ones who invented the crucible.

Modifié par Troxa, 13 septembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[3DandBeyond]

Troxa wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


I agree.  Maybe the keepers are the key.  Heck, on the xbox there's an ad for Leviathan that pops up to get you to buy it and it says Leviathan is the key.  I think we need to find the lock.  The keepers will set us free.  Keeper 20, specifically.

I think the keepers are the ones who invented the crucible.

Ha!  That would make a lot of sense-really would.

[ShepnTali]

I'm thinking we'll get more Keeper info down the DLC line.

[3DandBeyond]

ShepnTali wrote...

I'm thinking we'll get more Keeper info down the DLC line.

Maybe if indeed the citadel is real DLC.  I really wanted to know more about them.  It's really like the galaxy was stuck on stupid because who acts like this?  They take over the citadel and never investigate the core.  The keepers (really kind of creepy, not just for how they look but the fact that if you look at them too closely they don't like it and may just die, they keep protein vats of who knows what origin, and they are technological geniuses with radio backpacks.  What the heck?

[Redbelle]

@blueprotoss and 3D

I liked Inception......... But the only reason the ending worked was that the dramatic elements of the main story had been largely resolved and the hero had his reward, in this case children, back.

It's the spinning top thing at the end that ultimately is a prized ending. Is he, or is he not dreaming? It's an important question for us but not the character. The character stops looking at the top and goes to the children so in a sense his story is done too. He's found his peace and the only question left to be answered by the viewer as the camera settles on the top is....... 'is it real'?

We never know as the top continues to spin and the camera cuts to black........ but before the cut we hear the top wobble without seeing it, unelss you have a freeze frame. So what's the answer?

The answer is...... alot of different answers. But from the hero's perspective it's all done. He's settled. He's more interested in being with the family he had to give up and has reclaimed. It may be real it may not be. He just accepts what is in front of him.

And the ground work for this acceptance is carved into the rest of the film from start to finish. We learn what he lost. We learn why he lost it. We learn what he has had to go through to reclaim what was lost.

But here is the key difference....... The hero of inception is a completely different character with different motivations to Shepard. Shepard does what he does because he chose to be a soldier and stand in the way of anything that might threaten what he holds dear. The inception main character is as much a self made victim of dabbling with things he does not understand and pays a heavy price for his knowledge.

Modifié par Redbelle, 13 septembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Chorban... what happened to Chorban the Salarian? And before anyone says "he got reaped" we don't know. We scanned the keepers for him. He knows more about the Keepers than anyone.

There are a lot of parts of this story I'd love to rewrite. I don't know how they'd play out in a video game scenario. They might be too clunky for a RPG. I've got a work in progress that I will be sharing. It's been fun so far and now that the weather is changing I'll have more time to do it. I'm adding side stories and some stuff. Changing some other stuff. And I'll see where it takes me. It'll at least give you an insight into how I see Shepard.

At the end of the current story as it was presented by Bioware, though, I do not think it is over regardless of what they have told us. It's that Phoenix myth. I think we'll find out in the next game. Give me one other reason why they're so adamant about not changing the ending. Mac is done with the series and has passed the torch, however, and I'm pretty sure of that.

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Chorban... what happened to Chorban the Salarian? And before anyone says "he got reaped" we don't know. We scanned the keepers for him. He knows more about the Keepers than anyone.

There are a lot of parts of this story I'd love to rewrite. I don't know how they'd play out in a video game scenario. They might be too clunky for a RPG. I've got a work in progress that I will be sharing. It's been fun so far and now that the weather is changing I'll have more time to do it. I'm adding side stories and some stuff. Changing some other stuff. And I'll see where it takes me. It'll at least give you an insight into how I see Shepard.

At the end of the current story as it was presented by Bioware, though, I do not think it is over regardless of what they have told us. It's that Phoenix myth. I think we'll find out in the next game. Give me one other reason why they're so adamant about not changing the ending. Mac is done with the series and has passed the torch, however, and I'm pretty sure of that.

I just hope that they don't ignore the whole Phoenix thing.  Day one DLC with Javik may have also been partly to reinforce that theme.

People may hate me for saying this, but the idea of the whole Phoenix thing does fit in more with redemption from Indoctrination or from something else.  Don't get me wrong-I don't have a problem at all with anyone that sees indoctrination in all of this, because a lot of it does fit.  I don't think I'd want to play a whole game and find out it was indoctrination, but then part of me would prefer that to thinking that this was all real without deception.  I mean, bad writing, lost opportunities, forgotten stories and lore, or indoctrination.  Take your pick.  Which would you like to think that was from the get go.  I could go into all of the reason why it would sit better if it was indoctrination but I really don't want this to be an IT vs. non-IT debate thread.

The Phoenix myth isn't only about rising from ashes or from a fire, but it's also one of rebirth and renewal.  It's about rising up and in the myth, the reborn Phoenix can live as long as its previous incarnation did.  It's about death and resurrection, and even immortality.  Hopefully, it isn't what they will imply with synthesis, but now that I've said that I'm very scared.  If it is synthesis, I'm going to break my disks. 

It could very well refer to the true rebirth of the galaxy-it's existed in a child-like state for all time, with the reapers deciding its fate and future.  Rebirth might be like beginning again and rising up from the debris of the war.  That would be cool.  Shepard and the galaxy rising up together.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Chorban... what happened to Chorban the Salarian? And before anyone says "he got reaped" we don't know. We scanned the keepers for him. He knows more about the Keepers than anyone.

There are a lot of parts of this story I'd love to rewrite. I don't know how they'd play out in a video game scenario. They might be too clunky for a RPG. I've got a work in progress that I will be sharing. It's been fun so far and now that the weather is changing I'll have more time to do it. I'm adding side stories and some stuff. Changing some other stuff. And I'll see where it takes me. It'll at least give you an insight into how I see Shepard.

At the end of the current story as it was presented by Bioware, though, I do not think it is over regardless of what they have told us. It's that Phoenix myth. I think we'll find out in the next game. Give me one other reason why they're so adamant about not changing the ending. Mac is done with the series and has passed the torch, however, and I'm pretty sure of that.

I just hope that they don't ignore the whole Phoenix thing.  Day one DLC with Javik may have also been partly to reinforce that theme.

People may hate me for saying this, but the idea of the whole Phoenix thing does fit in more with redemption from Indoctrination or from something else.  Don't get me wrong-I don't have a problem at all with anyone that sees indoctrination in all of this, because a lot of it does fit.  I don't think I'd want to play a whole game and find out it was indoctrination, but then part of me would prefer that to thinking that this was all real without deception.  I mean, bad writing, lost opportunities, forgotten stories and lore, or indoctrination.  Take your pick.  Which would you like to think that was from the get go.  I could go into all of the reason why it would sit better if it was indoctrination but I really don't want this to be an IT vs. non-IT debate thread.

The Phoenix myth isn't only about rising from ashes or from a fire, but it's also one of rebirth and renewal.  It's about rising up and in the myth, the reborn Phoenix can live as long as its previous incarnation did.  It's about death and resurrection, and even immortality.  Hopefully, it isn't what they will imply with synthesis, but now that I've said that I'm very scared.  If it is synthesis, I'm going to break my disks. 

It could very well refer to the true rebirth of the galaxy-it's existed in a child-like state for all time, with the reapers deciding its fate and future.  Rebirth might be like beginning again and rising up from the debris FIREY ASHES of the war.  That would be cool.  Shepard and the galaxy rising up together.

The galaxy no longer needs the reapers. Just like the galaxy no longer needed the Shadows and the Vorlons. It was time for them to leave. It is also time for the Leviathans to leave.

But I'm hoping the means to focus that beam comes in some of the future DLC. One maybe so that it doesn't damage the relays. Another so that it doesn't wipe out other synthetics and just destroys reapers.

I wish there was a way that Legion could have gotten the Geth to work with us before the Rannoch war started since Legion knew what was coming. The writing was a little too contrived. They would not have been hit by the wave.

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I just hope that they don't ignore the whole Phoenix thing.  Day one DLC with Javik may have also been partly to reinforce that theme.

People may hate me for saying this, but the idea of the whole Phoenix thing does fit in more with redemption from Indoctrination or from something else.  Don't get me wrong-I don't have a problem at all with anyone that sees indoctrination in all of this, because a lot of it does fit.  I don't think I'd want to play a whole game and find out it was indoctrination, but then part of me would prefer that to thinking that this was all real without deception.  I mean, bad writing, lost opportunities, forgotten stories and lore, or indoctrination.  Take your pick.  Which would you like to think that was from the get go.  I could go into all of the reason why it would sit better if it was indoctrination but I really don't want this to be an IT vs. non-IT debate thread.

The Phoenix myth isn't only about rising from ashes or from a fire, but it's also one of rebirth and renewal.  It's about rising up and in the myth, the reborn Phoenix can live as long as its previous incarnation did.  It's about death and resurrection, and even immortality.  Hopefully, it isn't what they will imply with synthesis, but now that I've said that I'm very scared.  If it is synthesis, I'm going to break my disks. 

It could very well refer to the true rebirth of the galaxy-it's existed in a child-like state for all time, with the reapers deciding its fate and future.  Rebirth might be like beginning again and rising up from the debris FIREY ASHES of the war.  That would be cool.  Shepard and the galaxy rising up together.

The galaxy no longer needs the reapers. Just like the galaxy no longer needed the Shadows and the Vorlons. It was time for them to leave. It is also time for the Leviathans to leave.

But I'm hoping the means to focus that beam comes in some of the future DLC. One maybe so that it doesn't damage the relays. Another so that it doesn't wipe out other synthetics and just destroys reapers.

I wish there was a way that Legion could have gotten the Geth to work with us before the Rannoch war started since Legion knew what was coming. The writing was a little too contrived. They would not have been hit by the wave.

I agree SJ, I always hoped they'd show the galaxy free from outside overriding influence and ready to stop acting like idiots.

Yeah, I noticed the firey ashes bit too, , I think especially seeing Palaven burning points to the Phoenix Theory (new name so it's official).

And what do a lot of birds eat, huh, huh?  Fish!  Yes, Phoenix Theory.  Get that crucible targeting right, and rise from the ashes.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I just hope that they don't ignore the whole Phoenix thing.  Day one DLC with Javik may have also been partly to reinforce that theme.

People may hate me for saying this, but the idea of the whole Phoenix thing does fit in more with redemption from Indoctrination or from something else.  Don't get me wrong-I don't have a problem at all with anyone that sees indoctrination in all of this, because a lot of it does fit.  I don't think I'd want to play a whole game and find out it was indoctrination, but then part of me would prefer that to thinking that this was all real without deception.  I mean, bad writing, lost opportunities, forgotten stories and lore, or indoctrination.  Take your pick.  Which would you like to think that was from the get go.  I could go into all of the reason why it would sit better if it was indoctrination but I really don't want this to be an IT vs. non-IT debate thread.

The Phoenix myth isn't only about rising from ashes or from a fire, but it's also one of rebirth and renewal.  It's about rising up and in the myth, the reborn Phoenix can live as long as its previous incarnation did.  It's about death and resurrection, and even immortality.  Hopefully, it isn't what they will imply with synthesis, but now that I've said that I'm very scared.  If it is synthesis, I'm going to break my disks. 

It could very well refer to the true rebirth of the galaxy-it's existed in a child-like state for all time, with the reapers deciding its fate and future.  Rebirth might be like beginning again and rising up from the debris FIREY ASHES of the war.  That would be cool.  Shepard and the galaxy rising up together.

The galaxy no longer needs the reapers. Just like the galaxy no longer needed the Shadows and the Vorlons. It was time for them to leave. It is also time for the Leviathans to leave.

But I'm hoping the means to focus that beam comes in some of the future DLC. One maybe so that it doesn't damage the relays. Another so that it doesn't wipe out other synthetics and just destroys reapers.

I wish there was a way that Legion could have gotten the Geth to work with us before the Rannoch war started since Legion knew what was coming. The writing was a little too contrived. They would not have been hit by the wave.

I agree SJ, I always hoped they'd show the galaxy free from outside overriding influence and ready to stop acting like idiots.

Yeah, I noticed the firey ashes bit too, , I think especially seeing Palaven burning points to the Phoenix Theory (new name so it's official).

And what do a lot of birds eat, huh, huh?  Fish!  Yes, Phoenix Theory.  Get that crucible targeting right, and rise from the ashes.

Palaven DLC? lol

[BearlyHere]

Benchpress610 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Every lead writer has a different vision & I said i was not 100% sure on it
Drew left in middle of me 2 scrpt for swtor
Possible ending, drew wanted dark energy

You didn't say you weren't sure until now.  Either way we really don't know how far that goes and "closure" is still speculative based on person to person.

You quoted what Troxa said and that included that Troxa was not 100% sure.  Please stop with the argumentative derailing of the thread.  Honestly, if someone says they like yellow, you say red is best.  You argue about the most minor points.  Please stop and stay on topic.

I'm saying he died mention the 100% until that comment, which I previously said.

Enough, we all know what you did because we can read.  Enough.  I'm not ignorant of what you do in all threads.  It's obvious.  You continually state the same junk over and over again and disregard the totality of what someone says just to argue.  You best exemplify what you are doing by posting.  You just want to force people to run away by all this. 

It's off topic continually and you are doing that intentionally.  Why?  Who knows.  You have yet to state anything within this thread that is relevant to the discussion.  Please post when you can do that and then stop picking out quotes just to argue with.

Bubbles 2.0

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

[Iakus]

Redbelle wrote...

@blueprotoss and 3D

I liked Inception......... But the only reason the ending worked was that the dramatic elements of the main story had been largely resolved and the hero had his reward, in this case children, back.

It's the spinning top thing at the end that ultimately is a prized ending. Is he, or is he not dreaming? It's an important question for us but not the character. The character stops looking at the top and goes to the children so in a sense his story is done too. He's found his peace and the only question left to be answered by the viewer as the camera settles on the top is....... 'is it real'?

We never know as the top continues to spin and the camera cuts to black........ but before the cut we hear the top wobble without seeing it, unelss you have a freeze frame. So what's the answer?

The answer is...... alot of different answers. But from the hero's perspective it's all done. He's settled. He's more interested in being with the family he had to give up and has reclaimed. It may be real it may not be. He just accepts what is in front of him.

And the ground work for this acceptance is carved into the rest of the film from start to finish. We learn what he lost. We learn why he lost it. We learn what he has had to go through to reclaim what was lost.

But here is the key difference....... The hero of inception is a completely different character with different motivations to Shepard. Shepard does what he does because he chose to be a soldier and stand in the way of anything that might threaten what he holds dear. The inception main character is as much a self made victim of dabbling with things he does not understand and pays a heavy price for his knowledge.

And an important aspect is the timing.  We see the resolution, we see the reunion, and the happiness, then we get the ambiguity, the wondering if it's real or not.  WIth ME3, we see death, destruction, the names of the fallen.  Then a hint that maybe Shepard's alive.  It's frustrating to not be able to see at least the illusion of happiness.  To be able to point to it and go "I believe this is real"

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

@blueprotoss and 3D

I liked Inception......... But the only reason the ending worked was that the dramatic elements of the main story had been largely resolved and the hero had his reward, in this case children, back.

It's the spinning top thing at the end that ultimately is a prized ending. Is he, or is he not dreaming? It's an important question for us but not the character. The character stops looking at the top and goes to the children so in a sense his story is done too. He's found his peace and the only question left to be answered by the viewer as the camera settles on the top is....... 'is it real'?

We never know as the top continues to spin and the camera cuts to black........ but before the cut we hear the top wobble without seeing it, unelss you have a freeze frame. So what's the answer?

The answer is...... alot of different answers. But from the hero's perspective it's all done. He's settled. He's more interested in being with the family he had to give up and has reclaimed. It may be real it may not be. He just accepts what is in front of him.

And the ground work for this acceptance is carved into the rest of the film from start to finish. We learn what he lost. We learn why he lost it. We learn what he has had to go through to reclaim what was lost.

But here is the key difference....... The hero of inception is a completely different character with different motivations to Shepard. Shepard does what he does because he chose to be a soldier and stand in the way of anything that might threaten what he holds dear. The inception main character is as much a self made victim of dabbling with things he does not understand and pays a heavy price for his knowledge.

And an important aspect is the timing.  We see the resolution, we see the reunion, and the happiness, then we get the ambiguity, the wondering if it's real or not.  WIth ME3, we see death, destruction, the names of the fallen.  Then a hint that maybe Shepard's alive.  It's frustrating to not be able to see at least the illusion of happiness.  To be able to point to it and go "I believe this is real"

I can see what Redbelle is talking about and I agree.  I think the ending worked because it worked for the character in the movie.  He had his ending.  I personally didn't like the movie but I can see Redbelle's point.

And, iakus you are right here, timing is a part of it, but I think it is the idea if it fits with the character as you see him/her, if it fits with the story and what it promises internally and if it makes sense for the current situation.  In ME3, neither is true for me. 

[Zan51]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, again.  Who cares what other things show?  I'm sorry, but Inception sucked in my opinion.  I didn't give a good flying squirrel how it ended.  You may have liked the movie and so did others, but it has no bearing here.  I saw 2001 when it was first released-back when God was a boy.  Clarke was writing the book while they were making the movie.  Clarke wanted the book to explain the movie and Kubrick wanted the movie to stand on its own.  Sure, it was avant garde, it was new and it changed the face of Sci Fi as a consummable art form.  Before it SF was relegated to B movie status, even when some really great thought went into it (Forbidden Planet, for one).  However, 2001's ending left a lot of people wondering what they'd just seen, so they needed the book to help out.  The destination was unclear.  The starchild was either considered to be about rebirth, redemption, a never-ending cycle, or casting off some nanny that was trying to decide Earth's future-and there were many more interpretations.  But, outside or intellectual circles there was also this "what?" response, initially.

Yes, things are in the eye of the beholder.  Who said they weren't.  We've been constantly stating that here.  And you keep insisting that as you see it, everything's fine.  No one is disagreeing that it's all just ducky for you.  Fine, good, great.  However, I don't go to see a movie just to have fun along the way.  I've been in movie theaters where audiences actually booed the ending and where people asked for their money back because it sucked.  And movies that have unsatisfying endings often do not do well at the box office and head straight to DVD or Netflix.

I am just as much a beholder with eyes as are you.  What I behold, sucks.  So, you want me to say you're right.  Well, then that requires that you say that I'm right, too.  For you, it's the journey.  For me, the journey is capped off by the destination.  One person put it well with a cartoon.  The people on the Titanic were having a great journey, until they hit the iceberg.  My question to you is this:  What do you think mattered most to them-that great trip before hitting it, or everything that happened next after they hit it? 

Things that end are better when the destination is a great one or at least a good one.  The destination is the last thing you will remember of any journey.  And, as with most journeys you want to be brought home in the end.  ME3 does not bring the player or Shepard back home.

Clarke was a very individual writer. I stopped reading him early on because although his early stuff like "Diaspar: The City and the Stars" was excellent, he descended into a trend of writing where the characters were cardboard cliches to display how clever his technology was. And 2001 suffered greatly from that. As a movie it was confusing. I read the book and it was confusing. And do not make the mistake of thinking it was us! Clarke was one of those authors that had very little editorial control exercised over him, and it shows. The greater opinion of the movies in Brit SF at the time, was "pretty but boring." I don't actually personally know anyone who thought it more than that.

The story of Clarke as a writer doing the rounds through the SF community was that he carried his manuscripts around in a battered breiefcase, hand written in tiny, crabbed writing that could hardly be read. He was treated as a genius, and maybe he was, but the fact no one held him to standards that needed to be exacted shows in his later writings.

I say this because it shares the same symptoms of the ending of ME3, if tales of the way it was written are true - no checks and balances on the authors of the ending, cardboard characters that show off the "clever ending", and it shows.

Modifié par Zan51, 14 septembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Zan51]

3DandBeyond wrote...

All I was saying or trying to say is that the existence of the catalyst and his non-interaction in ME up until the ending was far more important to me to know then some of the other things he talks about.  It was at least important to know why he is in hiding during all the events of ME1.  It was at least as important as anything else he says.  And if he is watching and controlling the reapers then what Sovereign says makes no sense.

And since he was unknown and hiding out, how someone could adapt the crucible to work with him is beyond me.  Whoever made or adapted the crucible must have known of the kid's existence and no one did, until Shepard got to the citadel.  No one but the Leviathans and the kid and reapers.  So, the question mark is really big right there.

Want a plot hole I haven't seen mentioned yet, but that may just be me? How come the Star Brat says that if Shep chooses one of the endings, then in the next cycle, the Reapers will be defeated? How in hell does it know that? Is it prescient, able to fortell the future?

And I totally agree that how the hell can anyone design a Crucible to interact with the star brat when no one knows it exists!  Or did it suddenly pop up like a pop tart when Shep made it to the citadel?? For the love opf Pete, let's have some smblemce of common sense and continuity!  There is none so far, and everything added to strengthen Star Brat and his RBG decisions totally undermines 2 WHOLE games worth of lore and happenings, to say nothing of a large chunk of ME3!

Modifié par Zan51, 14 septembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[3DandBeyond]

Zan51 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

All I was saying or trying to say is that the existence of the catalyst and his non-interaction in ME up until the ending was far more important to me to know then some of the other things he talks about.  It was at least important to know why he is in hiding during all the events of ME1.  It was at least as important as anything else he says.  And if he is watching and controlling the reapers then what Sovereign says makes no sense.

And since he was unknown and hiding out, how someone could adapt the crucible to work with him is beyond me.  Whoever made or adapted the crucible must have known of the kid's existence and no one did, until Shepard got to the citadel.  No one but the Leviathans and the kid and reapers.  So, the question mark is really big right there.

Want a plot hole I haven't seen mentioned yet, but that may just be me? How come the Star Brat says that if Shep chooses one of the endings, then in the next cycle, the Reapers will be defeated? How in hell does it know that? Is it prescient, able to fortell the future?

And I totally agree that how the hell can anyone design a Crucible to interact with the star brat when no one knows it exists!  Or did it suddenly pop up like a pop tart when Shep made it to the citadel?? For the love opf Pete, let's have some smblemce of common sense and continuity!  There is none so far, and everything added to strengthen Star Brat and his RBG decisions totally undermines 2 WHOLE games worth of lore and happenings, to say nothing of a large chunk of ME3!

Well, the kid knows all kinds of things are inevitable-things that logically are not.  Robots will inevitably kill all organics if they aren't stopped.  Well, so they'll always be obsessed with organics?  A bit of arrogance in my mind.  I don't see why all synthetic life must be by nature (with autonomy and sapience) always concerned with organics.

And the whole thing about synthesis being inevitable as the final pit stop of evolution.  Uh, no.  Synthesis is an artificial process so by definition it cannot ever be a part of evolution.

I also want to know that since the kid tells Shepard his solution will no longer work, why Shepard has to do anything.  What then would be the correct course of action is to just stop.  If it won't work then it's illogical for the kid's reaper minions to continue and if they continue they are not achieving his purpose, so logically if Shepard does nothing, the reapers should just stop.  They don't, but using starkid logic, they should.

[Zan51]

Ozida wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote... 
All the EC did was add pictures, cool sounding narration, kid dialogue, and more flesh getting ripped from Shepard's face.  Shepard can't ask the tough questions, the kid doesn't fully answer questions asked-he answers the questions he wanted to be asked (anyone in PR would say he did an average job of deflection), and so on.

The EC was far from just pictures, narration, Catalyst diaogue, flesh being torn from Shepard, and so on.
e.

How... Wait... What?! Did I miss the something else in EC? Because to me it was just pictures with narrations and Catalyst dialogue. Even Shepard's breath scene was in the original endings anyway. Why would you possibly say that it was something more?

P.S. Oh yes, the good-bye scene, I admit, it was added too. Besides that... I don't know, maybe I had to replay ME3 from start to see the "great value" EC has added to the game?

I hate to add this, but have to for veracity - we also had the added scene of the Normandy coming down in front of an indifferent Harbie, and picking up your 2 companions in EC, I believe, Not completely sure as I only ever had the EC endings as I used my first month's paycheck after 3 years' unemplyment to buy the Collector's edition... /facepalms

[CronoDragoon]

THE EC RETCONNED THE RELAY DESTRUCTION AND THE NORMANDY BEING STRANDED.

This is a HUGE deal and now I CANNOT STOP TALKING IN CAPS RAAAARG.

[Zan51]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Troxa wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I agree.  Maybe the keepers are the key.  Heck, on the xbox there's an ad for Leviathan that pops up to get you to buy it and it says Leviathan is the key.  I think we need to find the lock.  The keepers will set us free.  Keeper 20, specifically.

I think the keepers are the ones who invented the crucible.

Ha!  That would make a lot of sense-really would.

Doomed to work on for the Reapers to facilitate more cycles, all the time knowing they tried to stop them once with the original Crucible, but failed... Oh what a bitter-sweet puishment!

[Archonsg]

 You guys ever thought that now with Leviathan out, and in comparison to From Ashes DLCs, that both obviously were cut content and both were tweaked to "fit" into the ending as it were. 

Javik for example could have very well been the Catalyst. 

You see, from my perspective, Leviathan gave us an opening to win the war "unconventionally". They showed that the Reapers were vulnerable to a certain attack and that their "orbs" were the means they used to effect it. 

The crucible went from "Protean weapon" to "Weapon built by an ancient race passed down across the cyles" to one big effing battery.

All just to fit into the shoebox that was the ending.

But what if, the crucible REALLY was a weapon.
One that was build to amplify the Leviathan's attack in concept?

What if the plans for that weapon was originally made by the Leviathans but was found by Protean Scientists and that they figured out what it was, however it requires a "living" mind, originally a Leviathan, but since it was "redesigned" by the Proteans, now need a Protean) to effectively use it?
Of course, if you want to make this so, then, well, both Javik and the Leviathans cannot sold as DLC and has to be part of the "full game".

Javik's speeches, his character, his role if you paid attention, was to kill the reapers at all cost. He even tells you that once the reapers are defeated, he will take his own life, since he has nothing in this cycle beyond defeating the reapers to keep him here.
Doesn't it strike you odd that he isn't used as the "sacrifice" when it seemed that the original concept, writing and dialogue suggest that he could have been?

I can actually see with my mind's eye how they could have written Javik in to be your squadmate, race across the galaxy uniting the various factions, take Omega back for Aria which leads to a clue within the Citadel, which is now under attack by reaper forces, then in the struggle to retake the Citadel which still has surviors fighting, (remember all your efforts to beef up Citadel defense) you find that last clue. That the Catalyst refers to a living mind, preferably Protean / Shepard (since he has the cipher) and that leads to a showdown vs Harbinger. 

Ahh Bioware.
You guys shouldn't take vital in game material, or originally planned in game material out of the game to make them as "sold later" DLCs. Then write them to "fit" in as you blatantly did with Leviathan. Trying to justify / foreshadow the "starbrat" now, isn't going to work. Worse, just makes you look greedy and petty to boot.

ME3 Reboot.
Put everything back in, make it all make sense and please, for gods sake have endings that do span from one end of the spectrum to the other. Not just "no matter what you do, Shepard must die." ABC and now D endings.

$120.00 sounds good?

Modifié par Archonsg, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[Zan51]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Chorban... what happened to Chorban the Salarian? And before anyone says "he got reaped" we don't know. We scanned the keepers for him. He knows more about the Keepers than anyone.

There are a lot of parts of this story I'd love to rewrite. I don't know how they'd play out in a video game scenario. They might be too clunky for a RPG. I've got a work in progress that I will be sharing. It's been fun so far and now that the weather is changing I'll have more time to do it. I'm adding side stories and some stuff. Changing some other stuff. And I'll see where it takes me. It'll at least give you an insight into how I see Shepard.

At the end of the current story as it was presented by Bioware, though, I do not think it is over regardless of what they have told us. It's that Phoenix myth. I think we'll find out in the next game. Give me one other reason why they're so adamant about not changing the ending. Mac is done with the series and has passed the torch, however, and I'm pretty sure of that.

How can there be an ME4 in a wasteland? Or is that officially de trop now? Or with no ME gateways, or are they rebuilt now? If the game at all involves being synchromeshed with creepy bloody Reapers and AIsor VIs, forget it! I will not buy it. Only way I would even consider another ME game is if it is in a galaxy with no damned Reapers, no overlord-remains-of-the-mind-of-BW-Shep, and no green eyed Synthesis morons! Only REAL people, REAL VI people, and REAL aliens, thank you!

[Hrothdane]

Archonsg wrote...

 You guys ever thought that now with Leviathan out, and in comparison to From Ashes DLCs, that both obviously were cut content and both were tweaked to "fit" into the ending as it were. 

Javik for example could have very well been the Catalyst. 

You see, from my perspective, Leviathan gave us an opening to win the war "unconventionally". They showed that the Reapers were vulnerable to a certain attack and that their "orbs" were the means they used to effect it. 

The crucible went from "Protean weapon" to "Weapon built by an ancient race passed down across the cyles" to one big effing battery.

All just to fit into the shoebox that was the ending.

But what if, the crucible REALLY was a weapon.
What if the plans for that weapon was originally made by the Leviathans but was found by Protean Scientists and that they figured out what it was, however it requires a "living" mind, originally a Leviathan, but since it was "redesigned" by the Proteans, now need a Protean) to effectively use it?
Of course, if you want to make this so, then, well, both Javik and the Leviathans cannot sold as DLC and has to be part of the "full game".

Javik's speeches, his character, his role if you paid attention, was to kill the reapers at all cost. He even tells you that once the reapers are defeated, he will take his own life, since he has nothing in this cycle beyond defeating the reapers to keep him here.
Doesn't it strike you odd that he isn't used as the "sacrifice" when it seemed that the original concept, writing and dialogue suggest that he could have been?

I can actually see with my mind's eye how they could have written Javik in to be your squadmate, race across the galaxy uniting the various factions, take Omega back for Aria which leads to a clue within the Citadel, which is now under attack by reaper forces, then in the struggle to retake the Citadel which still has surviors fighting, (remember all your efforts to beef up Citadel defense) you find that last clue. That the Catalyst refers to a living mind, preferably Protean / Shepard (since he has the cipher) and that leads to a showdown vs Harbinger. 

Ahh Bioware.
You guys shouldn't take vital in game material, or originally planned in game material out of the game to make them as "sold later" DLCs. Then write them to "fit" in as you blatantly did with Leviathan. Trying to justify / foreshadow the "starbrat" now isn't going to work an worse, just makes you look greedy and petty to boot.

ME3 Reboot.
Put everything back in, make it all make sense and please, for gods sake have endings that do span from one end of the spectrum to the other. Not just "no matter what you do, Shepard must die." ABC and now D endings.

$120.00 sounds good?

You are actually right on. Javik WAS going to be the Catalyst according to the leaked beta.