6432 réponses à ce sujet

[sdinc009]

CronoDragoon wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The memorial wall scene is great, but other than Liara who could have a connection to Shepard, I'm not sure how everyone became psychic. They seem positive Anderson is dead, but not Shepard in Destroy. Well, why are they so positive Shepard is dead then in the other endings. Again, I understand it for Liara, but for anyone else?

It is symbolic of the fact that he is not dead. And they are all positive Shepard is dead in the other endings because the center of the Citadel exploded where both he and Anderson are presumed dead, not because of the actual mechanics of how he died using the Crucible.

Slight correction, the Destroy ending is the only ending that has the center explode and yet it is also the ending that Shepard supposedly lives and the crew doesn't assume Shepard is dead in the memorial scene shown as being the only one that they do not add his/her name to the memorial

[Seifer006]

ghost9191 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

possible link?  or the survey ?

News & Announcement...........................................that simple

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...
Your last point first-all of the choices are a part of the new solution.  They all solve it temporarily.  Even the reapers were a temporary solution.  None of the choices provide any sort of lasting solution.  He does not say destroy won't solve the problem at all-he says it will occur.  He is still acting under the premise that conflict is inevitable so nothing, no solution ever fixes that.  Control will create conflict-you can't honestly believe no one will ever want to fight the reapers or that there might not be those that would want to control them or that synthetics and organics would just live in peace and harmony due to this.  The kid's AI is still in there somewhere.  Organics would fear the reapers, but synthetics wouldn't.  Should there be a conflict, say a faction of the geth develops in some different way as they evolve, who will Shreaper favor and save and protect?  Synthesis doesn't preclude conflict.  The reapers still exist.  The kid too.  And nothing stops anyone from creating new purely organic and purely synthetic life.

He operates under the premise that Synthesis is a permanent solution. We can disagree with him, but that is his belief in regards to the synthetic/organic problem.

Every single choice is a temporary solution.  Synthesis is perhaps his favorite.  It's what he's been trying to do, but control and destroy is what he has been doing.  Destroy is merely the best at ensuring that what he says is inevitable will truly be inevitable.  It might also be the one choice that proves a need for him.

He has never destroyed all synthetics before. He harvests every race. Destroy to him is a failure; it is a loss of data, a failure to preserve. He sees no difference between Reaper form and normal form, and this is especially true for synthetic races being harvested, when you think of it.

He does not say that he won't let the Crucible target just Reapers or anything to suggest that he is the one responsible for it functioning this way. "The Crucible will not discriminate" is what he says. He lays the onus of blame in this respect on the Crucible. If you think he's lying I can't refute that but only say that he's obviously an info dump, so we should take what he says about the Crucible as truth.

I pointed out that the existence of the kid without foreshadowing has ingame consequences.  It ruins the characters of Shepard and the reapers-how do you get more ingame than that?  Well, since the real ones are just thrown out of the game, I guess you're right.  It also basically ruins the story up to that point when he says, "wake up."

That isn't an in-game demonstrable consequence. That's a criticism of the story from an external source. I happen to believe it is correct, but it is not relevant to the characters of the story whether or not the Reapers' imposing presence was undermined by the Catalyst. The relay destruction and the Normandy's safety are relevant in this way.

The kid always said he'd been created and since he seems to have no physical presence and may be in a blue box, most definitely people knew he was the representation of a program, given certain instructions.  He was seen as having a flawed logic, messed up programming.

I read many threads before the EC that did not believe this. It was a popular belief that the Catalyst chose the Reaper cycle after forming his own opinion that synthetics and organics will always clash based on his own experience. You can tell that this was a popular belief by how many people were angry that BW was "shoving this belief" down their throats. If it was obvious he was a flawed program from the beginning and that we the players were not supposed to agree with him, this particular complaint would never have been raised.

The insertion of the kid as the villain is exactly where the big disconnect exists and why he should have been foreshadowed farther back.  He's hiding in ME1?  Well, that makes sense to me.

I agree that he needed way more foreshadowing. 

Do you know who created the crucible's plans?  Would be nice to know before making it, but especially nice to know when being asked to set it off.

I'm actually hoping the DLC after Omega explains the Crucible in its entirety.

The being that created it had to have know about the AI kid and not just some idea of a catalyst.

They could have just known the Citadel's ability to coordinate the network and based their Crucible dock on that. Knowledge of the kid isn't strictly necessary, I don't think.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:53 .

[ghost9191]

Seifer006 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

possible link?  or the survey ?

News & Announcement...........................................that simple

ok when say poll, that usually means poll. hence the second question. if it was a survey then yeah simple. but if it was a poll then it was not on the first page:devil:

Modifié par ghost9191, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Seifer006]

ghost9191 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

possible link?  or the survey ?

News & Announcement...........................................that simple

ok when say poll, that usually means poll. hints the second question. if it was a survey then yeah simple. but if it was a poll then it was not on the first page:devil:

ah. I see your point now.

Nah. Chris Priestly has it on front page

I made sure to give a thourough answer to what suggestions on BSN. I like more Dev to interact with Fans. Because not all go to twitter or FB etc...... 

BSN is where IMO the Dev can get the most from Fans & their Understandings. This is so crucial to gamemaking. Gamers (like you and I) want to make sure the Game ie. Series doesn't stray..........well IMO ME3 is perfect example of the game gone astray.

So yeah hopefully you lay the smackdown on that Survey like I did

[3DandBeyond]

Isichar wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Still and all, feelings over the endings are what they are-if you like them that's a preference and based on your opinion. Others have their own and not one choice to hang a hat on. I'm just asking that this be revisited and considered with an eye on all the pre-ending debacle videos, the things people loved and still do love. Some of these things just are ignored at the end-we want a way to feel like others do now, that we can win the game and we really do want some closure for other things. I think there is common ground and compromise that can be reached and we are willing to pay for that-that's a compromise. We are willing to try to get beyond this, if everyone else will just try and do the same. I don't want them to lose what they have and I don't want BW to suffer from this repeated toxicity-I don't care who started it. In so many ways it's not about that anymore. At some point everyone has to grow up and find a way to get beyond it and finger pointing should stop. We just need to keep working at it (me too). And be willing to put aside the BS.

Theres been a lot of blame for things thrown around from both sides, the sad truth is we all want the same thing

That's it.  It's totally true even if said a lot and seeimingly trite-but we are more alike than we are different.  I see BW as really wanting to be appreciated for what they do.  My God, we do appreciate things they've done and do-it is because of that that we're here.  The easy thing would have been to just play something else and write BW and ME off.  But, I so appreciate these games.  I have many other games that do not embody what ME does.  Video gaming is my biggest form of entertainment.  I appreciate these games and the characters and all of it.  It's just so disconcerting that people that could create lines like, "there's a reaper in my way, Wrex" could also create that torso as somehow a reward for killing EDI and the geth while also destroying the reapers.  I really want them to understand what and why people are asking for what they are asking. 

Call us what you will, but never haters.  It's not about hate, it's about anything but hate.  If we hated things so very much, we'd be rolling our fingers and twiddling our mustaches (even some of us women) in gleeful acceptance of the renegad endings.  We believe in asserting the heroic nature of the hero and in rewarding the suffering of that character at the very least with a victory and at best with a homecoming.  No one could really and seriously think that Shepard deserves to be left as a gasping torso, nor that if you played as a Shepard that cared about EDI and the geth, that killing them was right.  And for most of these same people, the other choices are not even considered appropriate at all-not only because they physically kill Shepard, but because they destroy his/her character and the galaxy in the process.  Opinion, yes, but just as valid as any other and since BW I know wants to be appreciated, well so do we-and we want that valid opinion appreciated as well.

[ghost9191]

yeah did it the other day. was just wanting to make sure

[3DandBeyond]

Seifer006 wrote...

ah. I see your point now.

Nah. Chris Priestly has it on front page

I made sure to give a thourough answer to what suggestions on BSN. I like more Dev to interact with Fans. Because not all go to twitter or FB etc...... 

BSN is where IMO the Dev can get the most from Fans & their Understandings. This is so crucial to gamemaking. Gamers (like you and I) want to make sure the Game ie. Series doesn't stray..........well IMO ME3 is perfect example of the game gone astray.

So yeah hopefully you lay the smackdown on that Survey like I did

Thanks for putting up the link and sorry for the confusion.  I too believe that BSN is the place where they should be.  I know others have said they had reasons for leaving, but it's time to come home.  And while twitter and all can be great things, the purpose there is not real discussion at all.  And a great many people missed a lot of what they stated on twitter-Emily Wong for one.  BSN needs a BW presence-the real BW.  I'm not at all complaining about the mods.  But the devs need to get involved here.

[Ozida]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

Wow, thanks, I've almost missed it. I guess, they will get a lot of "more devs talking to us" feedback via this survey.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

ah. I see your point now.

Nah. Chris Priestly has it on front page

I made sure to give a thourough answer to what suggestions on BSN. I like more Dev to interact with Fans. Because not all go to twitter or FB etc...... 

BSN is where IMO the Dev can get the most from Fans & their Understandings. This is so crucial to gamemaking. Gamers (like you and I) want to make sure the Game ie. Series doesn't stray..........well IMO ME3 is perfect example of the game gone astray.

So yeah hopefully you lay the smackdown on that Survey like I did

Thanks for putting up the link and sorry for the confusion.  I too believe that BSN is the place where they should be.  I know others have said they had reasons for leaving, but it's time to come home.  And while twitter and all can be great things, the purpose there is not real discussion at all.  And a great many people missed a lot of what they stated on twitter-Emily Wong for one.  BSN needs a BW presence-the real BW.  I'm not at all complaining about the mods.  But the devs need to get involved here.

yea, I would love for a dev to comment on the Idea's I made on here

[Archonsg]

Oh and while we are getting back on track, those of you happy with this :




Why can't you let us have this :




Insert your LI of choice if you are not into Tali (and why not?! ) 

You can keep your deary body on a broken tarmac / Concrete (still wondering where the concrete came from since he's supposed to be still on the Citadel) 

Modifié par Archonsg, 14 septembre 2012 - 07:10 .

[Isichar]

Ozida wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

Wow, thanks, I've almost missed it. I guess, they will get a lot of "more devs talking to us" feedback via this survey.

Just completed it, on the final comment I said that I felt having more discussions from actual bioware employees, in particular ones who are involved in the making of the games, would do a lot to improve the attitude in the forums and give players the sense that we can discuss things with them to some extent and not simply get talked at.

Modifié par Isichar, 14 septembre 2012 - 07:14 .

[Iakus]

Ozida wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Also, everyone needs to go to the News and Announcements area and take the BSN poll.

Wow, thanks, I've almost missed it. I guess, they will get a lot of "more devs talking to us" feedback via this survey.

They got it from me, that's for sure 

[AchesOfDoom]

Please Bioware, please!

[Iakus]

Archonsg wrote...

Oh and while we are getting back on track, those of you happy with this :




Why can't you let us have this :




Insert your LI of choice if you are not into Tali (and why not?! ) 

You can keep your deary body on a broken tarmac / Concrete (still wondering where the concrete came from since he's supposed to be still on the Citadel) 

Don't even need that (though would be great to have)  Just need Shepard to open his/her eyes.  To have more than a broken body as "hope"  

[3DandBeyond]

@CronoDragoon, we can go round and round till eternity.  You have formed your opinions and they diverge from what I've seen as major complaints that were never addressed.  And, in case that's not apparent, I have been on the BSN a lot and I have posted and read a lot.  I answer things here about why I feel as I do about the endings because to not do so seems to indicate that many don't have good reasons for their opinions - as happened with the one post where I did not write a complete college dissertation in a post. 

I have seen you post a lot and I know you must have seen more than you state as the main points.  But, I no longer care to rehash my opinions with someone who should know better.  I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you want a fight and I don't.  The kid was always the biggest problem in the game.  If polls didn't reflect that oh well-statistics are only as good as those that really seek to understand them and there's no way a person could not have understood from the pre-EC threads that the kid was the problem.  It's just that everyone always agreed (just as is the case here) that they weren't going to ever get rid of him, so people lowered their sights on things they thought had a chance of being changed.

It's like what I've said here and a great many, even more than now, would agree, the problems start with the beginning of the game and even the crucible.  If I had the money I'd rewrite the whole thing-if my opinions carried weight, I'd ask they get rid of the notion that an innovative true victory sans crucible is impossible.  But if I lower my expectations, I'd say at least fix it from London on.  Even lower-please fix it from the conduit on.  Lower-from "wake up" on.  Lower-from destroy doesn't work right on (no dead EDI, geth, Shepard).  Lower-no dead Shepard, Shepard reunited with friends.  Lower-Shepard lives, one quick scene with friends.  Lower-torso in rubble, LI or friend calls Shepard's name.  Any lower and I'm going to rip apart.  However, the thing BW came up with was a quixotic smile on say, Liara's face and the Shepard torso scene that is somewhere, in pain, in some state, and maybe alive maybe not.

This is how this all happens.  You wish for things and say what will maybe happen and what you hope will happen and then cringe when you see how all that gets interpreted.  This happened even before ME3-one poster swreg or some such said he hoped that ME3 wouldn't be like such and such and what he hoped would not happen is almost exactly what happened.

If we are to remain fans, a fair fix needs to be considered.  In my opinion.  I want a lot and am asking for a lot less and I'm asking to be allowed to pay for it.  I know things have happened on both sides and I just want better, something better all around.

[Ozida]

iakus wrote...

Don't even need that (though would be great to have)  Just need Shepard to open his/her eyes.  To have more than a broken body as "hope"  

Hmm, I would prefer a little bit more than just "opened eyes" to be honest. Otherwise it is too close to a last breath, to be honest. (I can bet there will be discussions like: "Did he really opened his eyes or was it a last-minute convulsion before death?" ). I honestly see nothing wrong with a full, proper happy-ending. Although, I am opened to compromises.

[Iakus]

Ozida wrote...

iakus wrote...

Don't even need that (though would be great to have)  Just need Shepard to open his/her eyes.  To have more than a broken body as "hope"  

Hmm, I would prefer a little bit more than just "opened eyes" to be honest. Otherwise it is too close to a last breath, to be honest. (I can bet there will be discussions like: "Did he really opened his eyes or was it a last-minute convulsion before death?" ). I honestly see nothing wrong with a full, proper happy-ending. Although, I am opened to compromises.

Well, what I mean is something definitive that says "Shepard survives"  Could be Shepard standing up and climbing out of the rubble, waking up in a hospital, or even being found by a rescue team that declares Shepard alive.  

I'm willing to headcanon what kind of happy ending Shepard has.  But what I need is more confirmation that Shepard lives to see that ending.

[Archonsg]

One of the issues with "The Ending" is that it doesn't have the "range" of endings to appeal to most. A good number are "okay" with the current ending after EC, but lets be honest here. Mass Effect should have ended much like Dragon Age : Origins did / Mass Effect 2 did. Have the full range of "Hell you fracked up!" to "Whoo hoo! Wedding and everyone is invited! We all made it!" ending.

The common argument, is that it "devalues" whatever ending they *are* happy with.
/shrugs.
So don't buy the DLC and be happy with a broken body on rubble.

Me, I prefer to have my wedding.

[Iakus]

Archonsg wrote...

One of the issues with "The Ending" is that it doesn't have the "range" of endings to appeal to most. A good number are "okay" with the current ending after EC, but lets be honest here. Mass Effect should have ended much like Dragon Age : Origins did / Mass Effect 2 did. Have the full range of "Hell you fracked up!" to "Whoo hoo! Wedding and everyone is invited! We all made it!" ending.

The common argument, is that it "devalues" whatever ending they *are* happy with.
/shrugs.
So don't buy the DLC and be happy with a broken body on rubble.

Me, I prefer to have my wedding.

Exactly.  Whatever the claim of "ranges' of endings.  Shepard's dead in virtualkly every one of them.  That by itself severely limites things

[rapscallioness]

I feel you, OP. I really do.

And the only problem with the idea that "if you don't like it, don't play it" is that it would suck for me. Lol. BW is the only dev that is coming close to the particular type of game I really enjoy.

I like alot of other games, but BW games were attempting to put all these great features together like: action and rpg; interesting settings And interesting characters. NPC's that are an important part of your story. The journey would not have been near the same great experience without them.

Choices/Consequences.....supposedly...dialogue and PC characterization options. All these things together is what makes BW games unique imo. I don't see any other devs doing this. Or even attempting to do this. (if there are, plz let me know).

But after all is said and done, OP, I feel like...it's over. Personally, I'd rather BW did Not use their resources to fiddle with ME3 anymore.

I would like to see them just move on. New title. Heck, new franchise. New adventure/story/PC/NPC's.

Hopefully. Hopefully--BW has learned something from all this. Hopefully they aren't just going to be stubborn about it, while thinking we're just being stubborn about it.

There's a page on the MP forums, I believe. It is a thread with real life pics of some of the MP/BW/ME fans. I think BW should create a collage out of it. Make copies and pin them up in their...cubicles, or stations, or whatever.

Help them to remember that there are real, sane, intelligent and reasonable ppl on the other side of their games. They are not just numbers to be crunched. Data to be mined. Whiny nuisances to be barely tolerated.

I think your PR did a great job in "humanizing" BW. That's so key for a Corporation. Well done. Maybe the fans need a PR dept. to help "humanize" their image...

The vast majority of fans (even ones that complained) are Not crazy. And they do Not send death threats. Plz do not lump us all together.

BW, your fans come from all backgrounds. All walks of life from around the world. Ppl that have lives. They are not basement dwelling; knuckle dragging; mountain dew swilling....neck beards. Honestly, Idk if that stereotype was ever true, but in the 21st century gaming demographics, it certainly isn't true.

Not everybody had grievances with ME3, but way too many did. For more reasons than just the endings. I hope as pride and..well..hurt feelings subside, BW will take an objective and serious look at the grievances put out there after ME3.

Take a look. There's some legit stuff.

Modifié par rapscallioness, 14 septembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[Adanu]

Archonsg wrote...

Oh and while we are getting back on track, those of you happy with this :




Why can't you let us have this :




Insert your LI of choice if you are not into Tali (and why not?! ) 

You can keep your deary body on a broken tarmac / Concrete (still wondering where the concrete came from since he's supposed to be still on the Citadel) 

Because then this would be considered the 'best', and anyone who settles for the former is an idiot.

ME3 is dark, gritty, and a last ditch effort to stop an EONS old cycle of harvesting that changes everything. You have to make sacrifices to make it work, then the ending is kept vague enough that you can infer as you wish. You people will never be satisfied until you get a disney ending. ME was never going to get a disney ending.

[sdinc009]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@CronoDragoon, we can go round and round till eternity.  You have formed your opinions and they diverge from what I've seen as major complaints that were never addressed.  And, in case that's not apparent, I have been on the BSN a lot and I have posted and read a lot.  I answer things here about why I feel as I do about the endings because to not do so seems to indicate that many don't have good reasons for their opinions - as happened with the one post where I did not write a complete college dissertation in a post. 

I have seen you post a lot and I know you must have seen more than you state as the main points.  But, I no longer care to rehash my opinions with someone who should know better.  I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you want a fight and I don't.  The kid was always the biggest problem in the game.  If polls didn't reflect that oh well-statistics are only as good as those that really seek to understand them and there's no way a person could not have understood from the pre-EC threads that the kid was the problem.  It's just that everyone always agreed (just as is the case here) that they weren't going to ever get rid of him, so people lowered their sights on things they thought had a chance of being changed.

It's like what I've said here and a great many, even more than now, would agree, the problems start with the beginning of the game and even the crucible.  If I had the money I'd rewrite the whole thing-if my opinions carried weight, I'd ask they get rid of the notion that an innovative true victory sans crucible is impossible.  But if I lower my expectations, I'd say at least fix it from London on.  Even lower-please fix it from the conduit on.  Lower-from "wake up" on.  Lower-from destroy doesn't work right on (no dead EDI, geth, Shepard).  Lower-no dead Shepard, Shepard reunited with friends.  Lower-Shepard lives, one quick scene with friends.  Lower-torso in rubble, LI or friend calls Shepard's name.  Any lower and I'm going to rip apart.  However, the thing BW came up with was a quixotic smile on say, Liara's face and the Shepard torso scene that is somewhere, in pain, in some state, and maybe alive maybe not.

This is how this all happens.  You wish for things and say what will maybe happen and what you hope will happen and then cringe when you see how all that gets interpreted.  This happened even before ME3-one poster swreg or some such said he hoped that ME3 wouldn't be like such and such and what he hoped would not happen is almost exactly what happened.

If we are to remain fans, a fair fix needs to be considered.  In my opinion.  I want a lot and am asking for a lot less and I'm asking to be allowed to pay for it.  I know things have happened on both sides and I just want better, something better all around.

3D's right about the Catalyst and I've been saying the same thing ever since I first beat ME 3. Removing the Starkid fixes 95% of the ending. There's even a fan made youtube video of the original ending that just cuts him out and it works. It's not perfect but certainly an improvement. The fact is the character has no place in the story. For 3 games the antagonist of the series has been the Reapers and alter something so pivotal to the story as the primary antagonist in the 11th hour in the final game of a trilogy is a catasrophic failure. Remove the kid, just retconn the little **** out of existence. He is totally and completely unnecessary.

[Archonsg]

Adanu wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Oh and while we are getting back on track, those of you happy with this :




Why can't you let us have this :




Insert your LI of choice if you are not into Tali (and why not?! ) 

You can keep your deary body on a broken tarmac / Concrete (still wondering where the concrete came from since he's supposed to be still on the Citadel) 

Because then this would be considered the 'best', and anyone who settles for the former is an idiot.

ME3 is dark, gritty, and a last ditch effort to stop an EONS old cycle of harvesting that changes everything. You have to make sacrifices to make it work, then the ending is kept vague enough that you can infer as you wish. You people will never be satisfied until you get a disney ending. ME was never going to get a disney ending.

And so a "forced" dark and gritty ending is your thing?
Sure stick with it.
It would be considered the "best" because ... well it is isn't it? Isn't that what CHOICE is about? Like us having a CHOICE for an ending we want? 

[Iakus]

Adanu wrote...

Because then this would be considered the 'best', and anyone who settles for the former is an idiot.

ME3 is dark, gritty, and a last ditch effort to stop an EONS old cycle of harvesting that changes everything. You have to make sacrifices to make it work, then the ending is kept vague enough that you can infer as you wish. You people will never be satisfied until you get a disney ending. ME was never going to get a disney ending.

So anyone who sacrifices the Warden in DAO is an idiot?

How "vague" and "subject inference" are the other 6-7 endings in teh game?

Plenty of sacrifices are made throughout ME3.  Some are required.  But not all.  Why should Shepard's be required?

Nevermind, you used "you people" and "disney ending".  I doubt you're serioously interested in a debate.