6432 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

snipped
@3DAndBeyond:
Am I understanding you correctly: your main complaint is that you feel your Shepard is out of character at the end because she accepts the presented options without even trying to find a way out? Or is it that there is no way out? Because if it's the latter, then I disagree that there has to be a way out. Shepard does not control the situation she's put in, and I don't have a problem with the writers putting the protagonist in an impossible situation. If it's the former, then I can agree with you to a point. One of my main complaints with the ending is that you can't bring up the geth/quarian peace against the organic/synthetic problem. I'd be ok with a reasonable explanation of why it doesn't count, but Shepard not bringing it up is definitely out of character.

About Control though, I have a totally different perspective. After ME2 revealed the nature of the Reapers (Legion's version, not EDI's), I've looked for more understanding rather than just way to destroy the Reapers, and I felt my Shepard was out of character in the conversations with TIM when he didn't ask "How the hell would you do that" (control the Reapers) or "I'm listening, but if it involves more of that [points at the changed Cerberus soldier], I'm not interested." I feel like I'm forced into an antagonism to TIM I never felt justified. The two instances where you can ask Hackett "What if it's possible" (to control the Reapers) don't make up for the lack of roleplaying opportunity there. Near the end, he snapped into character again with "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword, not a dagger in our back" and "You failed humanity." Note that if you use the Renegade options on the Citadel, you don't argue against Control, but rather point out TIM's indoctrination and failure.

TBH, I've discussed all this with you before.  I have no wish to write another novel here.  You can disagree with the idea that there has to be a way out, but that has never been a tenet within the ME series, until the Arrival, and I think that is a part of what is so wrong with the endings.  And it was optional content.  The endings aren't and they put a stamp on the games and are way more restrictive than the other endings of ME1 and 2 are.  This breaks with the milieu of the stories and games.  It also destroys the emotion of it all for a lot of people.  There's a lot wrong with the endings, but these things are certainly a part of what's wrong. 

I know you want to have understanding of the reapers.  But that's not ever a resounding need within the game-it's not relevant to anything except now in finding the Leviathans, but even that is stated as something to help fight the reapers, not to get the reapers to lay down on a couch for psychotherapy.  My view of the reapers is this-they were created by a very flawed AI created by the most idiotic programming team in all known history who seemed so persistently stupid that they must have created synthetics that wanted to destroyl them, so they created an AI that all but destroyed them.  So, why would I ever need to get to know them?

And while you can imagine that Shepard should have cared how TIM was going to try and control the reapers or that Shepard wanted to ever listen and know why TIM wanted to do that, you are totally ignoring what was going on in the game and making the case that Shepard disregarded that as a rational idea.

Your words here: "I feel like I'm forced into an antagonism to TIM I never felt justified."  Honestly?  Did you play ME2?  Do you remember that TIM kept setting Shepard up within it, in dealing with the Collectors?  And it was all for his ambition of feeling that humans had some right to be above all the other races in the galaxy?  Did you notice that he was using Shepard throughout and not being truthful about why or what was actually going on?  Or how about how they parted-was there some love between the two that I missed? 

And then the Cerberus husks on Mars.  Somehow you must have missed that.  Or does that seem like someone you think Shepard should view as rational?  Then, sending Eva Core who slaughters the scientists on Mars to get the plans so TIM can basically rule the galaxy.  You must have missed that.  Or Sanctuary-that was a fun time.  The obvious thing that has happened is what we are shown in that "forced antagonism" at the end-he's indoctrinated and believes he can control the reapers.  That's not rational.  Did trying to discuss irrational things with Saren or Benezia help you form a conclusion that they were right and you wanted to be like them or you appreciated what they had done and were doing?

The idea that Cerberus became so powerful so quickly was a problem, but they'd always been trying to explore mutating things and enthralling others, so that he was their boss makes control a natural choice for him, but not for Shepard and understanding his motives (I already did understand them) or how he could do it (he just knew he could, he had no way to explain how he could), was not necessary to explore.

I don't care what renegade shows, I haven't played as renegade so it doesn't matter.  What matters is that a renegade character has more of a home at the end whereas a paragon does not.  The game which is a game and not real war with fantasy is not fun and does not allow for an ending that people like me can live with.  It's not fun and not cool and it is in my opinion somewhat sadistic.

...So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

[kyban]

dreman9999 wrote...

My question to everyone 
who say they couldn't stick to their principles or that their morality was horribly compromised if they remeber these Ads form ME1 telling them they were facing an unstopable force in which the had to make sacrifices to stop and that they had many hard choices ahead which none were going to be easy...
 
 

Of course i remember that trailer! I love that trailer. I used to be upset because I remember an interview saying that whole planets would be destroyed and you had to choose its fate. but that never happened. The game ended up being so amazing that I didn't care.

I think Bioware took a risk, and tried to be artistic by asking deep personal questions at the end... when people didn't want/expect artsy. They wanted Mass Effect.

[3DandBeyond]

Again, I must remind everyone and myself to get back on topic. I have no interest in continually having this come down to my head canon is better than yours and I think ME1 and 2 should have been this with tougher choices (they weren't so that is moot) or that ME3 was great because you were backed into war crimes.

I really am not going to change anyone's mind. I don't care to. Personally, I really don't understand some of the things said here, because it's like some people don't remember ME1 and 2 and think or want them to have been different games than they were and since ME3 follows what they think 1 and 2 should have been that's fine for them.

As I see it ME3 had the problems it did because what happened in ME1 and 2 was ignored. Will I ever change your mind? No. And you won't change mine either. Do you care what I think? I don't think so. When I attempt to continually tell you that what you believe is fine and I don't want to change that, you ignore me and repeatedly tell me I'm wrong and need to just live with it. When I attempt to say I'm asking for optional content, you tell me I will ruin your game and your tough choices that you love and you tell me to leave BW's story alone.

When I attempt to let you keep what you have, you tell me that I should like it too because you do. So, should I tell you that you should be forced to buy something you won't like? No and I haven't done that.

But since I keep getting told that this is how BW wanted it with tough choices and cold hard war decisions-oh the realism, this may well be my new answer here. Perhaps I shall ask BW to make this a mandatory patch that everyone will get, even if you like the endings now. You should be forced to accept a brand new ending no matter what. It makes about as much sense as anything I've ever heard on this site because if that's the way Bioware wants to handle it all, who am I to argue with that? It's their story, you must accept that if they decide to rip out the heart of your choices and realize that other fans deserve something too. You have had your choices for about 6 months now. Maybe we deserve equal time, so for the next 6 months we get to have our endings.

I'm not serious of course, but this is a repeated undercurrent here. I don't like the choices. You must accept that nothing that you do will change that. I have many reasons that I have stated over and over again, much to the dismay of many on these boards.

My appeal is to Bioware to consider pay for DLC that would provide a satisfactory ending to those who do not now have one. I am not asking for a change to the endings that others like.

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

[Archonsg]

I'd like to point out that Both Ray and Greg has left Bioware.
The two people who could have made changes left. So that they can make beer.
Casey Hudson and Mac Walters now call the shots as far as Mass Effect goes.
EA / Bioware can't be anymore clearer just where it stands.

There are a good number of fans who are pleased with the direction that Bioware has taken.
Sadly that means for the rest its either we continue to bang on doors with no one behind them to hear, or sit back, and think about what you want to do with your money, your passion and your gaming time.

Mass Effect, is no longer in the hands of people who care.

[dreman9999]

kyban wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

My question to everyone 
who say they couldn't stick to their principles or that their morality was horribly compromised if they remeber these Ads form ME1 telling them they were facing an unstopable force in which the had to make sacrifices to stop and that they had many hard choices ahead which none were going to be easy...
 
 

Of course i remember that trailer! I love that trailer. I used to be upset because I remember an interview saying that whole planets would be destroyed and you had to choose its fate. but that never happened. The game ended up being so amazing that I didn't care.

I think Bioware took a risk, and tried to be artistic by asking deep personal questions at the end... when people didn't want/expect artsy. They wanted Mass Effect.

That's the entire problem with that arguement. We had choices in the series Like the end choice where we are forced to choose.
Virmire, the citadel choice, the geth choice, the collector base choice and tuchanka. We had there hard choices before. Hving it at the end of he game is not out of place being that the last 2 game did have thes moral choices in the end of their games.
The entire premise of ME as a series is a quetion of what the player is willing to do to stop an unstappable force. ME never turn ageinst that notion.
Moral conflicting choice are ME.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

In you own twisted word I would agree with you. As long as I am saying the point was to bring the player to moral conflict and an easy way out destroies that concept, WE WILL NEVER AGREE.

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

kyban wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

My question to everyone 
who say they couldn't stick to their principles or that their morality was horribly compromised if they remeber these Ads form ME1 telling them they were facing an unstopable force in which the had to make sacrifices to stop and that they had many hard choices ahead which none were going to be easy...
 
 

Of course i remember that trailer! I love that trailer. I used to be upset because I remember an interview saying that whole planets would be destroyed and you had to choose its fate. but that never happened. The game ended up being so amazing that I didn't care.

I think Bioware took a risk, and tried to be artistic by asking deep personal questions at the end... when people didn't want/expect artsy. They wanted Mass Effect.

That's the entire problem with that arguement. We had choices in the series Like the end choice where we are forced to choose.
Virmire, the citadel choice, the geth choice, the collector base choice and tuchanka. We had there hard choices before. Hving it at the end of he game is not out of place being that the last 2 game did have thes moral choices in the end of their games.
The entire premise of ME as a series is a quetion of what the player is willing to do to stop an unstappable force. ME never turn ageinst that notion.
Moral conflicting choice are ME.

Again, off topic.  After this many months you are not changing anyone's mind.  If you think you can create another "I will change your mind and make you love the catalyst" threads.  Please stop trying to do this here.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

kyban wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

My question to everyone 
who say they couldn't stick to their principles or that their morality was horribly compromised if they remeber these Ads form ME1 telling them they were facing an unstopable force in which the had to make sacrifices to stop and that they had many hard choices ahead which none were going to be easy...
 
 

Of course i remember that trailer! I love that trailer. I used to be upset because I remember an interview saying that whole planets would be destroyed and you had to choose its fate. but that never happened. The game ended up being so amazing that I didn't care.

I think Bioware took a risk, and tried to be artistic by asking deep personal questions at the end... when people didn't want/expect artsy. They wanted Mass Effect.

That's the entire problem with that arguement. We had choices in the series Like the end choice where we are forced to choose.
Virmire, the citadel choice, the geth choice, the collector base choice and tuchanka. We had there hard choices before. Hving it at the end of he game is not out of place being that the last 2 game did have thes moral choices in the end of their games.
The entire premise of ME as a series is a quetion of what the player is willing to do to stop an unstappable force. ME never turn ageinst that notion.
Moral conflicting choice are ME.

Again, off topic.  After this many months you are not changing anyone's mind.  If you think you can create another "I will change your mind and make you love the catalyst" threads.  Please stop trying to do this here.

No it's not off topic. It's the counter arguement to your topic. That means it's on topic. Not agreeing with you is not being off topic.

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

In you own twisted word I would agree with you. As long as I am saying the point was to bring the player to moral conflict and an easy way out destroies that concept, WE WILL NEVER AGREE.

Except you are totally misrepresenting yourself and mischaracterizing the things I've said.  Moral conflict is a ridiculous way to end a game when that has not happened before in the series as a game ending.  So, again trying to discuss this with you becomes an argument of what is the best color, yellow or purple.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

In you own twisted word I would agree with you. As long as I am saying the point was to bring the player to moral conflict and an easy way out destroies that concept, WE WILL NEVER AGREE.

Except you are totally misrepresenting yourself and mischaracterizing the things I've said.  Moral conflict is a ridiculous way to end a game when that has not happened before in the series as a game ending.  So, again trying to discuss this with you becomes an argument of what is the best color, yellow or purple.

So your going to lie to me an say you don't want a easy way out of the end choice?

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

No it's not off topic. It's the counter arguement to your topic. That means it's on topic. Not agreeing with you is not being off topic.

You would have to be Bioware to argue about my topic, since it's directed to them and not to you.  Last time you were here and ended up agreeing with me and leaving when you realized that you did.  So, keep disagreeing here until you once again turn yourself into a pretzel and end up agreeing again.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

In you own twisted word I would agree with you. As long as I am saying the point was to bring the player to moral conflict and an easy way out destroies that concept, WE WILL NEVER AGREE.

Except you are totally misrepresenting yourself and mischaracterizing the things I've said.  Moral conflict is a ridiculous way to end a game when that has not happened before in the series as a game ending.  So, again trying to discuss this with you becomes an argument of what is the best color, yellow or purple.

So your going to lie to me an say you don't want a easy way out of the end choice?

how is it a easy way out when the Galaxy is already badly damaged by the Reapers, your always looking at one side when we see everything outside of Shepard

[ShepnTali]

How about a fun, uplifting way out?


'Easy' way out is just a loaded term.

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

So your going to lie to me an say you don't want a easy way out of the end choice?

I never once have asked for an easy way out and please don't say I lie.  I don't.  This is precisely what you do, you argue and now insult.  This is why I've asked you to stay on topic.

I've asked Bioware to reassess how they might create optional DLC that might appeal to a lot of fans and all.  I have no interest in this drama, @dreman9999.

[kyban]

dreman9999 wrote...

kyban wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

My question to everyone 
who say they couldn't stick to their principles or that their morality was horribly compromised if they remeber these Ads form ME1 telling them they were facing an unstopable force in which the had to make sacrifices to stop and that they had many hard choices ahead which none were going to be easy...
 
 

Of course i remember that trailer! I love that trailer. I used to be upset because I remember an interview saying that whole planets would be destroyed and you had to choose its fate. but that never happened. The game ended up being so amazing that I didn't care.

I think Bioware took a risk, and tried to be artistic by asking deep personal questions at the end... when people didn't want/expect artsy. They wanted Mass Effect.

That's the entire problem with that arguement. We had choices in the series Like the end choice where we are forced to choose.
Virmire, the citadel choice, the geth choice, the collector base choice and tuchanka. We had there hard choices before. Hving it at the end of he game is not out of place being that the last 2 game did have thes moral choices in the end of their games.
The entire premise of ME as a series is a quetion of what the player is willing to do to stop an unstappable force. ME never turn ageinst that notion.
Moral conflicting choice are ME.

I see what you're saying. I think the reaction fans had was because it was one of the hardest decisions ever, and it also meant saying goodbye. People were brought out of their comfort zone, or imagined it differently, or what have you.
I'm well aware of the hard choices in the past, but for some reason those were easier to make. Also, we got to see what concequences our past decisions had. Open for speculation is hard for many to swallow, since we've always been shown what happens.

So yeah, Mass Effect did stay true to what it is. It was just too extreme for some to handle, i think anyway.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
..So virmire, the citadel choice , the geth choice and the collector base choice don't exsist?

This thread is not directed at you.  Previously in this thread you ended up agreeing with me, but now you are back once again to stir things up.  Please desist.  I have no interest in the attempts you make at derailing topics.

In you own twisted word I would agree with you. As long as I am saying the point was to bring the player to moral conflict and an easy way out destroies that concept, WE WILL NEVER AGREE.

Except you are totally misrepresenting yourself and mischaracterizing the things I've said.  Moral conflict is a ridiculous way to end a game when that has not happened before in the series as a game ending.  So, again trying to discuss this with you becomes an argument of what is the best color, yellow or purple.

So your going to lie to me an say you don't want a easy way out of the end choice?

how is it a easy way out when the Galaxy is already badly damaged by the Reapers, your always looking at one side when we see everything outside of Shepard

It's an easy way out because SHepard does not lose anything to stop the reapers. Soing"oh the galexy is badly damaged, that"s a sacrife" is small minded. This war, that is going to happen no mater what.
The quetion is what "YOU" the player is willing to do and sacrife to defeat the reapers. Morality is on the table as will in that quetion.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So your going to lie to me an say you don't want a easy way out of the end choice?

I never once have asked for an easy way out and please don't say I lie.  I don't.  This is precisely what you do, you argue and now insult.  This is why I've asked you to stay on topic.

I've asked Bioware to reassess how they might create optional DLC that might appeal to a lot of fans and all.  I have no interest in this drama, @dreman9999.

You ask for a way to kill the reaper with out dieing or kill synthetic life with Ahepard alive...That's an easy way out. And I 'm not the first or only one to point it out.

[Ieldra]

I don't have the time to write a novel so just a few points in reply:

3DandBeyond wrote...
TBH, I've discussed all this with you before.  I have no wish to write another novel here.  You can disagree with the idea that there has to be a way out, but that has never been a tenet within the ME series, until the Arrival, and I think that is a part of what is so wrong with the endings.

It should not surprise you that I like that aspect of Arrival.

And it was optional content.  The endings aren't and they put a stamp on the games and are way more restrictive than the other endings of ME1 and 2 are.  This breaks with the milieu of the stories and games.  It also destroys the emotion of it all for a lot of people.  There's a lot wrong with the endings, but these things are certainly a part of what's wrong.

I admitted the tone of the endings is totally unexpected.

I know you want to have understanding of the reapers.  But that's not ever a resounding need within the game-it's not relevant to anything except now in finding the Leviathans, but even that is stated as something to help fight the reapers, not to get the reapers to lay down on a couch for psychotherapy.  My view of the reapers is this-they were created by a very flawed AI created by the most idiotic programming team in all known history who seemed so persistently stupid that they must have created synthetics that wanted to destroyl them, so they created an AI that all but destroyed them.  So, why would I ever need to get to know them?

Because they exist? Exploring the unknown - including unknown life forms - has always been one of the primary attractions of science fiction for me. Having that aspect totally denied by a horror story where all we can do is destroy the unknown would have been an epic disappointment for me. I grant you that the fact that there was a way out of that came unexpected.

And while you can imagine that Shepard should have cared how TIM was going to try and control the reapers or that Shepard wanted to ever listen and know why TIM wanted to do that, you are totally ignoring what was going on in the game and making the case that Shepard disregarded that as a rational idea.

Your words here: "I feel like I'm forced into an antagonism to TIM I never felt justified."  Honestly?  Did you play ME2?  Do you remember that TIM kept setting Shepard up within it, in dealing with the Collectors?  And it was all for his ambition of feeling that humans had some right to be above all the other races in the galaxy?  Did you notice that he was using Shepard throughout and not being truthful about why or what was actually going on?  Or how about how they parted-was there some love between the two that I missed?

Love? No. Of course not. But *you* seem to forget we're in a war for the survival of all advanced organic life in the galaxy. Maybe you think morality does not depend on context, but I disagree. If I'm grasping at straws for a way to stop the Reapers, I will express curiosity for any means to do so, regardless of who it comes from. It is the same reason the options for the final choice are acceptable to me: they are all better than annihilation (though I agree having them presented by the enemy leader makes them all suspect. An ending with no Catalyst would have indeed been preferable).

And then the Cerberus husks on Mars.  Somehow you must have missed that.  Or does that seem like someone you think Shepard should view as rational?  Then, sending Eva Core who slaughters the scientists on Mars to get the plans so TIM can basically rule the galaxy.  You must have missed that.

I did not miss it. Nor did I agree with it. Nor would I want TIM to rule the galaxy. But see above: if he has something that might help, I want to know it, and if that means I have to play nice then so be it.

Things change after we come to know he's indoctrinated, but that wasn't what I was talking about.

As for what is rational: rational is to work with what you have in oder to achieve what you can, to weigh the costs, in resources and in morality, against the benefits in an emotionally detached manner, and then make the decision with the best cost/benefit balance. You might call it the ruthless calculus of war, but the plain fact is military strategists think like that and act on it (nobody says they have to like it or they don't care), and I have no problem at all being called to think likewise.

BTW:
Before you bring up the ending decision: Yep, I agree to some point that the ending decision can't be made in a rational way. But it's not because the outcomes as such are bad, but because they come from the enemy leader and we don't get enough information. The ending scenarios should have been foreshadowed throughout the game much more heavily than they were, or at all.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[sdinc009]

dug up this old this video. It's the TV commercial for the first Mass effect. It really helps to establish how the story is grounded in how making difficult choices has consequences. Enjoy

[dreman9999]

ShepnTali wrote...

How about a fun, uplifting way out?


'Easy' way out is just a loaded term.

Ok, all you actions lead to a galexy that all your friends and love one are still alive and the galexy rebuilds it self after the war not matter what ending you pick if you have high ems..Even though you died or comprimised your morailty.....How is that only a sad ending?

[dreman9999]

sdinc009 wrote...

dug up this old this video. It's the TV commercial for the first Mass effect. It really helps to establish how the story is grounded in how making difficult choices has consequences. Enjoy

You have no Idea how many times I posted this in the topic.
That's for bring up the point agein.

[Netsfn1427]

Archonsg wrote...

I'd like to point out that Both Ray and Greg has left Bioware.
The two people who could have made changes left. So that they can make beer.
Casey Hudson and Mac Walters now call the shots as far as Mass Effect goes.
EA / Bioware can't be anymore clearer just where it stands.

There are a good number of fans who are pleased with the direction that Bioware has taken.
Sadly that means for the rest its either we continue to bang on doors with no one behind them to hear, or sit back, and think about what you want to do with your money, your passion and your gaming time.

Mass Effect, is no longer in the hands of people who care.

This is the type of stuff that bothers me. We can all have opinions. But to say that the people in charge don't care because they disagree with you? That's the over dramatic stuff and frankly, baseless stuff that can be done without. 

Hudson and Walters likely care deeply about the ME series. They, having their names and reputations staked to a product THEY helped create and shape, may even care about it more than you do. They may not share your vision on where to take the series.  It means they disagree with you as is their right as it is your right to not buy anything else they write. 

You can care about something. You can care about opinions. But it doesn't mean you have to agree or follow them. And it isn't some horrible slight against the opinion holder if you don't. 

[3DandBeyond]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...


how is it a easy way out when the Galaxy is already badly damaged by the Reapers, your always looking at one side when we see everything outside of Shepard[/quote]It's an easy way out because SHepard does not lose anything to stop the reapers. Soing"oh the galexy is badly damaged, that"s a sacrife" is small minded. This war, that is going to happen no mater what.
The quetion is what "YOU" the player is will to do and sacrife to defeat the reapers. Morality is on the table as will in that quetion.

[/quote]

You can keep your tough choices.  They work for you, but this was a game and not everyone is like you and likes what you do.  I don't care what you like.  I really don't.  And that means I don't care to take it from you.  You have what you like.  That should make you happy but you keep thinking you need to make others think exactly like you and just love this ending.  They don't and won't, you can say it unitl yoiu turn 80.

Again. I am not asking you to give up anything, but you keep fighting all this as if I'm personally trying to ruin your game.  Try an experiment.  Go play ME3 and see if I have done anything to ruin it.  And then don't play Leviathan and see what the ending is like without it.  The play Leviathan and see what changes.  That's what I'm asking for-optional content that you would never have to see or play. 

Your arguments are moot and have nothing to do with what I'm asking Bioware to consider.  My request would not affect you, but you keep acting like it would.  Can you for once stop thinking only about yourself?

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's an easy way out because SHepard does not lose anything to stop the reapers. Soing"oh the galexy is badly damaged, that"s a sacrife" is small minded. This war, that is going to happen no mater what.
The quetion is what "YOU" the player is will to do and sacrife to defeat the reapers. Morality is on the table as will in that quetion.

oh really? lets see Control - only Shepard dies, Synthesis - Shepard dies and force the galaxy to change their DNA but nobody else dies, Destroy - cause Genocide of an entire race, Repairs will take even longer. Looks to me that Destroy gets the short end of a stick, but it also looks like there gonna more to it since the Starbrat states the Crucible is largly intact and every new DLC is gonna give new War Assets which adds on to the Crucible