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One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing


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#4576
CronoDragoon

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Ozida wrote...

I can only say this: I have replayed NWN over dozen times, and in fact, I am playing it right now... again. Never got bored or tired of it, although I know every corner in the game now by heart. I have replayed ME2 over a dozen times too, and it encouraged me to replay ME1 a lot as well. I haven't replayed ME3 even once, expect for running over the last mission again after EC came out. I have actually tried to start another play through and lost interest before even finishing Prologue mission. How much worse could it be?

If this is not the end of the world, it is definitely dark times in video gaming history. Posted Image


Sorry you feel that way, and I want you to know I mean it since I once felt the same way and did not touch ME3 again till the EC was released. The EC made the series playable again since I felt like I had accomplished more good than harm, but I can sympathize if you feel otherwise.

#4577
AresKeith

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Ozida wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Mass Effect 3 failed about as much as ME2 succeeded... devs say its their best work ever... two co-founders "retire"...

Maybe the world IS coming to an end?


I can only say this: I have replayed NWN over dozen times, and in fact, I am playing it right now... again. Never got bored or tired of it, although I know every corner in the game now by heart. I have replayed ME2 over a dozen times too, and it encouraged me to replay ME1 a lot as well. I haven't replayed ME3 even once, expect for running over the last mission again after EC came out. I have actually tried to start another play through and lost interest before even finishing Prologue mission. How much worse could it be?

If this is not the end of the world, it is definitely dark times in video gaming history. Posted Image


darker than Fable 3? lol

Didn't play that one, but heard it didn't go very well either.

The funny thing is that the only other game that had almost equally terrible ending I know about was also called "Fable", but it was an older game, most likely unrelated to your reference. At the end of that game it turned out that the main protagonist was just insane man in a clinic for mentally challenged people and everything that happened was just in his imagination. That was the only time when I had a true "WTF?!" moment besides ME3. I mean, there is a difference between crappy, but toleratable endings and pure nonsense.


that sounds like something the game Darkness 2 did, but it wasn't the ending for that game lol

#4578
Ozida

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Ozida wrote...

I can only say this: I have replayed NWN over dozen times, and in fact, I am playing it right now... again. Never got bored or tired of it, although I know every corner in the game now by heart. I have replayed ME2 over a dozen times too, and it encouraged me to replay ME1 a lot as well. I haven't replayed ME3 even once, expect for running over the last mission again after EC came out. I have actually tried to start another play through and lost interest before even finishing Prologue mission. How much worse could it be?

If this is not the end of the world, it is definitely dark times in video gaming history. Posted Image


Sorry you feel that way, and I want you to know I mean it since I once felt the same way and did not touch ME3 again till the EC was released. The EC made the series playable again since I felt like I had accomplished more good than harm, but I can sympathize if you feel otherwise.

Thanks for the kind words. Hey, maybe one day I will be able to replay it too! I'd rather prefer that day would be the day when BioWare releases optional DLC as per OP's post. ^_^

#4579
Warrior Craess

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AresKeith wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Mass Effect 3 failed about as much as ME2 succeeded... devs say its their best work ever... two co-founders "retire"...

Maybe the world IS coming to an end?


I can only say this: I have replayed NWN over dozen times, and in fact, I am playing it right now... again. Never got bored or tired of it, although I know every corner in the game now by heart. I have replayed ME2 over a dozen times too, and it encouraged me to replay ME1 a lot as well. I haven't replayed ME3 even once, expect for running over the last mission again after EC came out. I have actually tried to start another play through and lost interest before even finishing Prologue mission. How much worse could it be?

If this is not the end of the world, it is definitely dark times in video gaming history. Posted Image


darker than Fable 3? lol


heheh but no one expected fable 2 or 3 to be epic. 

#4580
BearlyHere

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Ozida wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Mass Effect 3 failed about as much as ME2 succeeded... devs say its their best work ever... two co-founders "retire"...

Maybe the world IS coming to an end?


I can only say this: I have replayed NWN over dozen times, and in fact, I am playing it right now... again. Never got bored or tired of it, although I know every corner in the game now by heart. I have replayed ME2 over a dozen times too, and it encouraged me to replay ME1 a lot as well. I haven't replayed ME3 even once, expect for running over the last mission again after EC came out. I have actually tried to start another play through and lost interest before even finishing Prologue mission. How much worse could it be?

If this is not the end of the world, it is definitely dark times in video gaming history. Posted Image


I've been wondering if people at Bioware actually play their own games anymore. Sure, they may work on them, or have meetings about the progress or concepts, but that's not the same as being immersed in the game world and having an emotional stake in the protagonist's story. Reading those blog posts from the doctors made me think they sounded like they had moved on long ago. Maybe that's why the disconnect with players' reactions to the endings, or why Bioware insists on "clarification" when many aren't asking for that, but rather for options as we were promised. 

#4581
Ozida

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BearlyHere wrote...

I've been wondering if people at Bioware actually play their own games anymore. Sure, they may work on them, or have meetings about the progress or concepts, but that's not the same as being immersed in the game world and having an emotional stake in the protagonist's story. Reading those blog posts from the doctors made me think they sounded like they had moved on long ago. Maybe that's why the disconnect with players' reactions to the endings, or why Bioware insists on "clarification" when many aren't asking for that, but rather for options as we were promised.

Well, some of them constantly say things like: "Playing Omega right now, it's awesome" and stuff like this. Is it true? I guess. I honestly think that some devs are truly amazed by their own work and cannot sometimes see it from the other, our, side.
However, seeing veterans leaving makes me speculating that maybe (and this is just maybe) there are some arguments within BioWare internally. You know, the whole "Hudson & Walter locked the rest of the team from ME3 production" rumours. They are all humans, and I see no reason why there cannot be some mismatches between personalities. But once again, this is only a speculation. Whoever is left would need to deal with the rest of franchise.

#4582
darthoptimus003

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N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game

#4583
BearlyHere

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Ozida wrote...

BearlyHere wrote...

I've been wondering if people at Bioware actually play their own games anymore. Sure, they may work on them, or have meetings about the progress or concepts, but that's not the same as being immersed in the game world and having an emotional stake in the protagonist's story. Reading those blog posts from the doctors made me think they sounded like they had moved on long ago. Maybe that's why the disconnect with players' reactions to the endings, or why Bioware insists on "clarification" when many aren't asking for that, but rather for options as we were promised.

Well, some of them constantly say things like: "Playing Omega right now, it's awesome" and stuff like this. Is it true? I guess. I honestly think that some devs are truly amazed by their own work and cannot sometimes see it from the other, our, side.
However, seeing veterans leaving makes me speculating that maybe (and this is just maybe) there are some arguments within BioWare internally. You know, the whole "Hudson & Walter locked the rest of the team from ME3 production" rumours. They are all humans, and I see no reason why there cannot be some mismatches between personalities. But once again, this is only a speculation. Whoever is left would need to deal with the rest of franchise.


That doesn't nescessarily mean the devs are sitting down to play the whole game though. I admit I don't know how it works, and if teams create the various chapters in the game. I was thinking about the people at the top specifically though, as well as the various PR people, and even the writers.

#4584
StElmo

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darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results

#4585
Ghost

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StElmo wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results


A lot of people who don't like/like the game don't go on forums or participate in polls.

#4586
StElmo

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Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results


A lot of people who don't like/like the game don't go on forums or participate in polls.


Whats your point?

#4587
Ghost

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StElmo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results


A lot of people who don't like/like the game don't go on forums or participate in polls.


Whats your point?


If you read my post you would see my point.

#4588
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results


A lot of people who don't like/like the game don't go on forums or participate in polls.


Whats your point?


If you read my post you would see my point.

This thread is over 180 pages. If you linked your post maybe it would be easier to find? :whistle:

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:39 .


#4589
StElmo

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

The poll I was referring to was a lot more open-ended.

http://www.masseffec...e.de/feedback/# (click on "Survey data" -- it's in the top-header bar).

To sum up the relevant results: 83% (14,612 people) had the EC DLC, the other 17% (2870) didn't. 69.7% (12,193 players) said it was a "terrible ending" anyway. Of the remainder of that 100%, 20.1% (3514) voted they thought there was going to be more, 7% (1229) thought meh, it was okay and only 3.1% (546 players) thought it was a great ending.

Goddamn but those are some landslide numbers saying it (even with the EC DLC) was a terrible ending.

But hey, what do I know? Apparently the 500 person poll that rated "expectations" is more accurate. Hah!

hope bioware payed attintion to this and does the right thing before they start a new game


Interesting, I never saw these results


A lot of people who don't like/like the game don't go on forums or participate in polls.


Whats your point?


If you read my post you would see my point.

This thread is over 180 pages. If you linked your post maybe it would be easier to find? :whistle:


yes twould be nice.

#4590
darthoptimus003

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the point i think he\\she was making that given the numbers of fans on bsn that took part in the poll a high number of people hate the ending ec included and how much higher it would have been if the people who hated the endings that arnt here would have got the poll

#4591
3DandBeyond

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One interesting thing to know is that there was a thread created here sometime back and I kind of missed a point made in it, but it came up again recently.

Awhile back one BSN member had gone to a Community event where Chris Priestly and Jessica Merizan were in attendance. The thread recently was discussed because the point was made by Jessica that any future ME game would be one in which synthesis had occurred. The second main point that fits within this thread was that Jessica was asked about how much DLC was planned for ME3 and she said it could easily go the way of DA2.

Both points may or may not be true but may provide insight into some thinking at Bioware as well as a reason to speak up now about all of this.

Personally, I think that if either is true they both should be warnings to fans and the devs. One (synthesis), indicates a total misunderstanding of at the very least a huge segment of fans-synthesis is not universally. I think it would be the worst move possible. They're free to do it, but it would again seem to be doing the exact opposite of what people want. It's almost like they think doing the opposite of what people say they'd like is somehow exciting and surprising and unpredictable. It's not. It's kind of what led us to this place to begin with.

A fan, well before ME3 came out posted what he hoped it would not be like and end like. It turned out to have been much of what he hoped (and others agreed) it would not be.

Fans posted what they thought the original endings meant (and wished they didn't), but hoped would be deleted for the EC, and the endings did mean what fans thought they meant and they went ahead and just expanded upon a lot of what fans didn't like (of course they weren't going to delete it).

The other thing is, though it's recently been disputed by current events, the thought they were even considering dumping DLC as happened with DA2, shows that things may well be on the edge. They may have a lot of DLC planned now, but at one time they might well have considered throwing in the towel. That means that things are or were iffy. And it means they can't afford to alienate more fans and do need to try and reclaim many who are still willing to come back, if given a reason. And they do need to keep the ones they have, who need reasons to stay. The reasons many have right now is that there's still time to look at this and consider doing something big, something magnanimous. I'm saying here that they could take a look back and see that there's validity to the idea that the game needed what is now missing, some real attempt at balance for those who really do care and feel left out of all this.

#4592
Ozida

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3DandBeyond wrote...

A fan, well before ME3 came out posted what he hoped it would not be like and end like. It turned out to have been much of what he hoped (and others agreed) it would not be.

Actually, does anybody has the exact quote? I've seen it once in someone's signature...

As for what 3D wrote, I agree completely. BioWare has all the rights to continues this "creative path", but they will be loosing a lot of good fans. Is the plan here really to atrract new fans by pissing off old ones? It seems right now that company lives in some dream world, like when you close your face in front of baby, he thinks you are suddenly gone. Lets ignore upset people untill there are none left!.. The problem is there are A LOT of upset fans, no matter what BioWare thinks, and choosing the path that will be hated by many is just a very strange idea for company who makes profit from selling games to fans.
Once again , at this moment it is mostly speculations due to no official announcements. However, as 3D said correctly, it is time to talk now. There is no space left for speculations, it is time to negotiate.

Modifié par Ozida, 21 septembre 2012 - 12:20 .


#4593
DrwEddy

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Snypy wrote...

Perhaps the new management will try to appease fans by releasing a DLC with additional endings. ^_^

Maybe. But how do we fans need to convince the management that we want additional endings?

#4594
Ozida

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DrwEddy wrote...

Snypy wrote...

Perhaps the new management will try to appease fans by releasing a DLC with additional endings. ^_^

Maybe. But how do we fans need to convince the management that we want additional endings?

Petition? Yay or nay?

#4595
Bierwichtel

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Petitions seldomly work, or never depending on your perspective. Money talks, sad but true...

the people juggling the numbers have no interest in the actual product, at least no further than "how much money could this make"... it sucks, it destroys things people really enjoy, maybe even love...

but it's our own damn fault, anyway...

Modifié par Bierwichtel, 21 septembre 2012 - 01:36 .


#4596
Ozida

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Bierwichtel wrote...

Petitions seldomly work, or never depending on your perspective. Money talks, sad but true...

the people juggling the numbers have no interest in the actual product, at least no further than "how much money could this make"... it sucks, it destroys things people really enjoy, maybe even love...

but it's our own damn fault, anyway...

Well, "Hold the line" was kind of a petition, no? I understand it was larger demand, but still...
However, I do agree that money are the best negotiators. Sadly, it seems that ME3 sold well (mostly because it was pre-ordered a lot), so it doesn't seem that BioWare would starve any time soon. The only thing we could do now is just to keep vocalize our opinions and hope for the beest. As sad as it sounds, there is nothing much left to do. It seems they don't like cupcakes either. Sushi? They like sushi? Everybody likes sushi. Posted Image

#4597
Bierwichtel

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maybe some hockey tickets... these guys ARE canadian afterall... ;)

if you scream long enough, someone will come looking, curious what all the fuss is about... to paraphrase Garrus...

#4598
3DandBeyond

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Ozida wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

A fan, well before ME3 came out posted what he hoped it would not be like and end like. It turned out to have been much of what he hoped (and others agreed) it would not be.

Actually, does anybody has the exact quote? I've seen it once in someone's signature...

As for what 3D wrote, I agree completely. BioWare has all the rights to continues this "creative path", but they will be loosing a lot of good fans. Is the plan here really to atrract new fans by pissing off old ones? It seems right now that company lives in some dream world, like when you close your face in front of baby, he thinks you are suddenly gone. Lets ignore upset people untill there are none left!.. The problem is there are A LOT of upset fans, no matter what BioWare thinks, and choosing the path that will be hated by many is just a very strange idea for company who makes profit from selling games to fans.
Once again , at this moment it is mostly speculations due to no official announcements. However, as 3D said correctly, it is time to talk now. There is no space left for speculations, it is time to negotiate.


The person's name was something like swreg, but I can't remember it.  Probably not worth revisiting, but just saying that I sometimes fear writing what I hope won't happen, because seriously it's like that is what then does happen.

I think we really just have to keep stating that we think this could be a win for everyone.  It would give them a way to go to leave room for a sequel.  Sure, there might be those that dislike it if they wanted control or synthesis to take place, but honestly those both lead to the further involvement of reapers and they are not well-liked. 

But then again, I seriously doubt that many people want ME to be turned into an MMO or less of a story RPG and more of an action RPG.  I'm sure some do, but I doubt that most do.  And yet, anything is possible.

I think that in all of this Bioware has not wanted to be predictable.  I think that's part of what irked them about the leaked script-they wanted an air of mystery.  They like speculation (the word is a good one, but now nauseates me), but not to have content fully known.  I think that is in part why they went with the kid and Shepard dying.  It's like they knew people had been expecting all out war to play out, and the ending to evolve from our previous choices, so they did the opposite-SURPRISE!  And, then they see that people don't like something, so it'll be a surprise if they do that.  I'm actually half joking here.  I still have this inkling that things will work out well because I think it's far better to live with wishes for good things, than to live with the idea that things will turn out bad.  Either way, you have to wait and it's better to wait with hope, than with cynicism.

And, just to bring this all back around, I really think there never would have been any outrage and ME3 would have forged a new, unique path for RPGs had it been predictable.  Sometimes, doing the hoped for, expected thing is the best thing.  The reason people expected Take Earth Back to be a real fight for all the marbles, was because it made sense.  The reason people expected a way to win things on their terms and not on some random new (or some previously unknown) character's terms, was because it made sense and it validated everything done before. 

#4599
3DandBeyond

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Bierwichtel wrote...

maybe some hockey tickets... these guys ARE canadian afterall... ;)

if you scream long enough, someone will come looking, curious what all the fuss is about... to paraphrase Garrus...


Tickets, maybe but no way am I going to ask Red Wing's fans to cheer for the Oilers.  Octopi for all. 

#4600
Cyberstrike nTo

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I think you can beg, plea, threaten not to buy any DLC or any other BioWare game till Hell freezes over, BioWare is NOT going to change the endings anymore than they already have with The Extended Cut and some new dialogue in Leviathan because they not only because as IIRC Priestly said "TEC is the end of the endings" but more importantly they can't do it without remaking the whole game.