6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

to come back to the original purpose of this thread:

BW would have to listen to a minority, a select minority at that... those who actually have an idea what they want... the resulting problem again is, that what said minority would want is probably not what would satisfy the majority, which would result in a decline in sales (even though this can not be reliably predicted anyway...)

I do agree that it would be the right move from BW to at least acknowledge our ideas/pleas... to at least show us that they care about our opinions, that they still care about us as fans...

EDIT:
sorry, Darth hadn't seen you had already posted something to get this thread back on track... I apologise.

See this is the beauty of Puzzle Theory: BioWare gets to have their cake (do all their planned pre-ending DLC) and we get to have a modified ending that is non-Catalyst generated.

Everyone who is heavily invested in Control, Synthesis, and Destroy loses (note that I am heavily invested in destroy as I believe it is the only one where Shepard is not indoctrinated).

The only way the new ending gets unlocked is when a person has purchased all of the SP DLC for ME3. It could be a new YELLOW choice at the end of the choice descriptions off to the left, and this launches the new ending and we get to see the real Shepard again. One can only hope.

Epilogue: Shepard lived and retired with his/her LI on Illium (Liara), Rannoch (Tali), Earth or Colony world (humans), Palaven (Garrus), or is a freelance contractor (no LI).

See I think even the majority (destroy enders) hated that ending. I think even the Control people hated that ending and would have chosen something better if it meant they could see the real Shepard again. And the same with Synthesis. I think the small number remaining that would hold onto the old endings would be so minimal it would be well worth the risk.

And they could still keep with their vision of ending Shepard's story arc at the end of the game.

Everyone wins. I just don't believe in the no-win scenario.

I agree with so much here.  I don't think a lot of people would just love the endings they now have and would at least want to try something new.  I think a lot of people are hung up on the need to be right and they want others to remain miserable.

I can and have said that if the roles were reversed I would be supporting them in trying for something they liked.  I think some of the most trumped up reasons for not wanting an additional ending have been seen here for what they are--smoke and mirrors.

What's been said by people who don't want Bioware to consider this is that additional endings or additions to an ending would be wrong because too many people would want it and it would invalidate the other choices.  Again, it would be wrong because too many people would want it?  And just how is that supposed to convince Bioware not to do this?  It's like saying "Bioware, too many people would want this and buy it, so don't do it."  Ok that makes sense.   I don't quite see it that way, but I do think a lot of people who like the current endings would be curious and want to buy any and all ME content.  They buy appearance and weapons packs (weapons so you can try shooting with different ones and still not win).

It's also been said this would ruin the balance.  What balance?  Choose your version of how not to win?  Balance-since when do wars end with balance achieved?  Wars have many different outcomes, but balance, that's not one of them.  Or it would eliminate the tough choices you must make because it's war.  Ok, uh the choices aren't tough, they're all flawed and not clearly for something good-not clearly for some type of real win.  The choices are easy-I don't like them and don't want to make them, so the game doesn't ever end really for me.  And I'd really like some balance with a possible win as well as a feeling that the tough choices were more like what happens in real war, actual fighting.

Some say that just knowing that different endings exist would ruin the game for them.  Ok, that's just ridiculous.  I mean, we all got past Shepard's opening statements to the commission.  We all got past a lot of things that we can't unsee and it would all have been forgotten and in fact none of this would have been such an issue if the game have followed something that just worked. 

They can change a lot of that and make something better that I think a lot of those that now say "NO, NEVER" on both sides would consider and would buy.

[AresKeith]

Essalor wrote...

I can say without any sarcasm that I loved ME3. I did. And I'm sure some people replay it because it's a good game. Forget less dialogue options or on-rails story, it all didn't matter. Until the end.

The last 5 minutes are bad because the more you loved the game, the more you got crushed. It is after such a downfall that you started scrutinizing every minute thing that was wrong with the game.

And it's not like the vocal minority wants something impossible. Giving us a happier/positive refuse ending will probably end most complaints and restore faith in the company for a large majority. Removing Catalyst is almost impossible at this stage, but improving out choices: yes.

besides the ending, I still gave ME3 a 6.5/10

[3DandBeyond]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I want an I-toilet... does it come 3000 flushe and siri?

Ok, the siri part would be really creepy.

[Lunch Box1912]

"Siri" you forgot to flush again 3DandBeyond

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

Essalor wrote...

I can say without any sarcasm that I loved ME3. I did. And I'm sure some people replay it because it's a good game. Forget less dialogue options or on-rails story, it all didn't matter. Until the end.

The last 5 minutes are bad because the more you loved the game, the more you got crushed. It is after such a downfall that you started scrutinizing every minute thing that was wrong with the game.

And it's not like the vocal minority wants something impossible. Giving us a happier/positive refuse ending will probably end most complaints and restore faith in the company for a large majority. Removing Catalyst is almost impossible at this stage, but improving out choices: yes.

besides the ending, I still gave ME3 a 6.5/10

Look at some of the reviews for Leviathan-7.5 out of 10.  As far as ME3 and not considering the ending, most of what I found kind of odd or off or just wrong along the way, I would have never dwelled upon.  I disliked the kid at the beginning and in the nightmares, but I would have pretty much over-looked that.  Nothing would have gotten the scrutiny it did because people went back and tried to see what the heck happened and things just stood out more.

Just look at all the people (I did this too), that went back and repeatedly looked to see why they couldn't get the "best" ending, because of the MP issue.  I know I had to suffer through that opening and that kid and after seeing him at the end, I really started to dislike him anywhere he should up, opaque or transparent.

I still think if I now had something better to end the game on, it would redeem a lot of the game.  I'd rather not have the crucible and not have the kid, but that's just not realistic I don't think.

So, it comes down to this.  I estimate it's about the last 10-20 minutes out of about 35 hours of play, that I really don't like and that makes other things just nauseating in the game, so I'd say total it up to around an hour that is really ruined for me.  That's around 3% of the game.  But, it isn't just the other things that nauseate me about it that I really don't want to see.  I actually feel bad hearing people say we're going to fight the reapers, or seeing people suffer in order that we might fight the reapers, or all the other things that happen that lead up to fighting the reapers, which we never do.  And since we don't even really win, it's even worse.  I hate the idea of telling people that they need to do things that are totally invalidated by a choice.  It's not fun and not the way to win a non-war.

[pgcis136]

Bierwichtel wrote...

and now to persuade Casey...

the quote myself:

would be awe and then some...

Jane Shepard-T'Soni just lounging
on the patio (I know, I know Inta'sei's atmosphere does not really lend
itself well to this, but I can dream) Liara Shepard-T'Soni sitting
between her legs, enjoying her ministration, their four, little, blue
children being all ick-ed out, as they kiss...

Ashley and
Samantha sitting arm in arm on the patio-stairs... being amused by the
childrens' antics, kissing as well to ick them out even more (being the
evil aunties and all)

a little Turian boy, followed by a little
Quarian girl, running around the corner of the house laughing their
little heads off, being chased by a geth... (Tali and Garrus needed some
time off, so Shepard, Liara, Ash and Sam volunteered to baby-sit...)

while I'm dreaming: I want a pony... (to paraphrase Susi Derkins...)

Direct intervention is required, assuming direct control of this thread.
Casey Hudson cannot control this, because we control him.
Your hope is futile, like dust aginst a cosmic wind.
The harvest will be rEAped.
Releasing direct control of this thread.

[BearlyHere]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I think that actually more people than we know would come back because they did love these games.  No, they're not happy with how this all was handled, but I do think that for many there'd be that interest.  Not that they'd be going against principles they stated, but it is human nature.  It is.  How many times have you drawn a line in the sand and crossed it?  We all do because when it comes right down to it, no matter how it comes about, if you finally get someone to listen to you and to admit one small thing you've said is true, you can't help it.  I'm just a silly older woman, but I've seen this all the time.  The anger a lot of people feel is because of how much they liked this thing.

Ever known someone you just couldn't stand?  And that really seemed to dislike you?  A person that was always causing you trouble?  Well, I have seen this happen so many times.  "I'm never talking to that so and so ever again.  She's so nasty and mean to me and blah blah blah.  Two days later, BFFs.  And some divorced people just hate each other and one day get remarried.  It's human nature to change one's mind.

Now this is much different.  It is a product.  However, I've seen people swear on a stack of travel brochures that they would never buy another Apple product because the freaking iPhone did this or that and blah blah blah.  Or the iPad or the iToilet or whatever.  And, I'm pretty sure that some people who just got the iPhone 5 were some of those people.  I remember a lot of dislike for the original iPhone because of black screens, lack of features, reduced cost after they paid a premium, no GPS, no video, no voice recorder.  I had one-I know what people said.  But, the iPhone is one of the most successful products ever made. 

People want to like things they've liked and they do also want to be right and companies can overcome mistakes and fan unrest-if they believe that olive branches matter.  So, there's every possibility that some people who were really upset might come back, too.  There are a lot of people just killing time playing MP.  And yeah, there are a lot of used copies out there gathering dust.  But, there are also a lot of digital downloads on PCs that people might still be waiting to have one chance to feel like playing again.

True enough, but I don't think people get as emotionally attached to their iPads and iToilets as they do to a good RPG. People even planned their vacations around ME3's launch!  Can you imagine how upset they were when presented with that stinking turd at the end and had to go back to work with that taste in their mouths.  I personally know two guys who deleted the digital DLs on their computers. In their case, it seemed almost like a divorce. 

[AresKeith]

alleyd wrote...

Essalor wrote...

I can say without any sarcasm that I loved ME3. I did. And I'm sure some people replay it because it's a good game. Forget less dialogue options or on-rails story, it all didn't matter. Until the end.

The last 5 minutes are bad because the more you loved the game, the more you got crushed. It is after such a downfall that you started scrutinizing every minute thing that was wrong with the game.

And it's not like the vocal minority wants something impossible. Giving us a happier/positive refuse ending will probably end most complaints and restore faith in the company for a large majority. Removing Catalyst is almost impossible at this stage, but improving out choices: yes.

As a bystander of the debate I find the debate about factions of pro and anti enders tedious and absurd. ME3 was an rpg and offered replayability and choice. You weren't supposed to be as restricted to a single on rails storyline. You could be both in the same game which was the major beauty of this series and the RPG format that Bioware used to champion.

There is a way that could easily replace the Catalyst using current gamplay and FMV, and even dialogue. It would need a conversation tree between Shepard and Catalyst were Shepard can actually argue against the Catalyst flawed logic and provoke a paradox that "kills" that Catalyst and the Reapers

I call this the Paradox theory and it has been used in the past with good effect (The Witcher 2 EC Quest Secrets of Loc Luinne had an event very similar to the Catalyst.). All the points of arguement use existing game elements such as FMV and story themes and there should be a reward and closure for a character that made certain decisions. There simply isn't in the existing game.

Another cheap theory is the Trojan Horse which essentially has the Crucible being forced to seld festruct and this takes out the Citadel and the Catalyst. This could have a weighting applied through EMS to be more elegant but to simplify things it doesn't need them

Thats why ME3 fell under the category of being a rushed game and not having a narrative director watching over the lead writer

[Epique Phael767]

alleyd wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Thats why ME3 fell under the category of being a rushed game and not having a narrative director watching over the lead writer

I look at things from a musical perspective ME3 was more like one of those albums were the artist thinks their every utterance is precious and it usually ends out being a stinker. Could list numerous examples but don't want to de-rail the thread

This best describes what I thought as well, like the writers let all the success in the previous two games go to their head.

John Lennon leaving the Beatles to pursue his "artistic vision" is an example of this. 

[3DandBeyond]

pgcis136 wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

and now to persuade Casey...

the quote myself:

would be awe and then some...

Jane Shepard-T'Soni just lounging
on the patio (I know, I know Inta'sei's atmosphere does not really lend
itself well to this, but I can dream) Liara Shepard-T'Soni sitting
between her legs, enjoying her ministration, their four, little, blue
children being all ick-ed out, as they kiss...

Ashley and
Samantha sitting arm in arm on the patio-stairs... being amused by the
childrens' antics, kissing as well to ick them out even more (being the
evil aunties and all)

a little Turian boy, followed by a little
Quarian girl, running around the corner of the house laughing their
little heads off, being chased by a geth... (Tali and Garrus needed some
time off, so Shepard, Liara, Ash and Sam volunteered to baby-sit...)

while I'm dreaming: I want a pony... (to paraphrase Susi Derkins...)

Direct intervention is required, assuming direct control of this thread.
Casey Hudson cannot control this, because we control him.
Your hope is futile, like dust aginst a cosmic wind.
The harvest will be rEAped.
Releasing direct control of this thread.

I LOL every time you take control here.

It reminds me to state here something I posted elsewhere-food for thought.  What if with Omega the collectors as well as Aria's minions and some left over Cerberus forces become assets and dispute control as a choice?

Consider that Harbinger in ME2 at the end relinquishes control.  And there was supposed to be another collector ship IIRC.  So, what if Harbinger just left the collectors alone as if they were no use any longer-and maybe they somehow overcame indoctrination and even though they're messed up (maybe more like Vorcha in a way), they might be added to assets.  I think the collectors are the indoctrinated Protheans that wanted to control the reapers and that fought with the other Protheans who wanted to destroy them-that's why they never finished the crucible.  If the leftover collectors were no longer indoctrinated they might see control as a bad idea.  Just a thought.

[3DandBeyond]

alleyd wrote...

BearlyHere wrote...

True enough, but I don't think people get as emotionally attached to their iPads and iToilets as they do to a good RPG. People even planned their vacations around ME3's launch!  Can you imagine how upset they were when presented with that stinking turd at the end and had to go back to work with that taste in their mouths.  I personally know two guys who deleted the digital DLs on their computers. In their case, it seemed almost like a divorce. 

Can you imagine the uproar if ME3 had actually been released for the Xmas season? I would have lost all my faith in Santa if he had delivered the ending of ME 3.

@3D I hope the Rocky Horror Reaper showtunes still entertain and amuse. Thinking of doing Aria's hit Sweet Transvestite (From Trans-Sexual Thessia)

Ah yes fantastic.  Thanks for that.  Aria-hey, she's not a transvestite.  She's monosexual.

[N7 Lisbeth]

3DandBeyond wrote...
I disliked the kid at the beginning and in the nightmares, but I would have pretty much over-looked that.  Nothing would have gotten the scrutiny it did because people went back and tried to see what the heck happened and things just stood out more.

Not to sidetrack a great deal, but I actually liked the PTSD, the dreams/nightmares, and I don't even mind the Catalyst taking the form of something that's clearly weighing heavily on Shepard. (The kid represents all the people Shepard has failed to save, just up close-and-personal.)

I thought the dreams added depth and character, not just to round out the war, but to remind us what we're fighting for, and to make Shepard appear human. They hit us pretty hard with the messiah-template, and it was nice to see them break that. Too bad they returned to it for the ending.

So, it comes down to this.  I estimate it's about the last 10-20 minutes out of about 35 hours of play, that I really don't like and that makes other things just nauseating in the game, so I'd say total it up to around an hour that is really ruined for me.  That's around 3% of the game.  But, it isn't just the other things that nauseate me about it that I really don't want to see.  I actually feel bad hearing people say we're going to fight the reapers, or seeing people suffer in order that we might fight the reapers, or all the other things that happen that lead up to fighting the reapers, which we never do.  And since we don't even really win, it's even worse.  I hate the idea of telling people that they need to do things that are totally invalidated by a choice.  It's not fun and not the way to win a non-war.

Agreed, the ending felt too artificial, too phony. For some reason they ignored all our resources, all our potential, and thought they needed some sort of deus ex machina (a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object). Times like these it makes me wonder if the people writing certain acts or arcs were independant from the ending, because time and again the Quarian & Geth resolution involving peace invalidates the Catalyst. I really am curious if that was written by someone else, and if the Reaper tech-assimilation aspect wasn't grafted onto it when it became known as they finished.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Calamity]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

*SNIP*

Agreed, the ending felt too artificial, too phony. For some reason they ignored all our resources, all our potential, and thought they needed some sort of deus ex machina (a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object). Times like these it makes me wonder if the people writing certain acts or arcs were independant from the ending, because time and again the Quarian & Geth resolution involving peace invalidates the Catalyst. I really am curious if that was written by someone else, and if the Reaper tech-assimilation aspect wasn't grafted onto it when it became known as they finished.

Actually, I think Levi invalidates the catalyst. The Levis thought they were above their entralled organics and did not think they would have a problem with rogue AIs. They apparently saw their entralled minions making machines and the machines turning against them (once) and so they came up with the concept that created will always turn against their creator.

The programmed is only as good as the programmer...

[Snypy]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Agreed, the ending felt too artificial, too phony. For some reason they ignored all our resources, all our potential, and thought they needed some sort of deus ex machina (a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object). Times like these it makes me wonder if the people writing certain acts or arcs were independant from the ending, because time and again the Quarian & Geth resolution involving peace invalidates the Catalyst. I really am curious if that was written by someone else, and if the Reaper tech-assimilation aspect wasn't grafted onto it when it became known as they finished.

I wouldn't say that the Crucible itself is a deus ex machina. Firstly, we know from ME1 that the Protheans (and countless other cycles before them) fought the Reapers to the bitter end. Vigil says that the war lasted for hundreds of years. Given the strenght of the Reapers and the length of the conflict, it's logical to assume that the Protheans would really come up with a plan to defeat the enemy unconventionally. They even managed to disable the remote control of the Citadel. (Who knows what else they did there; maybe we'll find out in the Citadel DLC.) Secondly, we know about the Crucible from the very first mission. We know what it should do (= destroy the Reapers). And we spend the entire game trying to build it. Therefore, the problem isn't solved suddenly and abruptly.

[Bierwichtel]

I'm just really p'ssed off about Bioware's business practices, so excuse any rants...

hence from this day forth, this game shall be known as Mass Plothole...

because that's what it is... information being invalidated through "artistic integrity" f'cking starchild, f'cking catalyst, f'cking Leviathans..., does Mass Effect 3 even take place in the same dimension as the first game?

maybe that's what the next f'cking DLC will show us, uh, Shepard jumped dimension (and yes I know the difference between different dimension and different univers...)

Casey Hudson probably does not care, because actually caring would mean destroying the reality he build for himself... you know one where he is god?... Niftu Hudson has already run the franchise more or less to ground, it could be saved... but I bet that bosh'tet would rather wash his hands of the filthy piece of stinking garbage and make a new full-price game... you know, a game that tells us what DLC could have told us as well... so angry (not angry Jake levels of angry but still...)

[vallore]

CronoDragoon wrote...

While I would love more ending DLC, it is not accurate to say it wouldn't affect people who liked the post-EC endings, because dev time for an ending DLC is dev time not spent on another unique DLC.

By the same token, a fix to the ending is also a sure way of bringing back dissatisfied customers, that otherwise do not feel inclined to play the game anymore, or buy the other DLCs.

The relevant bit is that a larger number of satisfied customers also mean more customers to buy the other DLCs, meaning they are more lucrative, meaning Bioware would have more reasons to produce more DLCs. More than balance the supposed loss of dev time, imo.

[3DandBeyond]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
I disliked the kid at the beginning and in the nightmares, but I would have pretty much over-looked that.  Nothing would have gotten the scrutiny it did because people went back and tried to see what the heck happened and things just stood out more.

Not to sidetrack a great deal, but I actually liked the PTSD, the dreams/nightmares, and I don't even mind the Catalyst taking the form of something that's clearly weighing heavily on Shepard. (The kid represents all the people Shepard has failed to save, just up close-and-personal.)

I thought the dreams added depth and character, not just to round out the war, but to remind us what we're fighting for, and to make Shepard appear human. They hit us pretty hard with the messiah-template, and it was nice to see them break that. Too bad they returned to it for the ending.

So, it comes down to this.  I estimate it's about the last 10-20 minutes out of about 35 hours of play, that I really don't like and that makes other things just nauseating in the game, so I'd say total it up to around an hour that is really ruined for me.  That's around 3% of the game.  But, it isn't just the other things that nauseate me about it that I really don't want to see.  I actually feel bad hearing people say we're going to fight the reapers, or seeing people suffer in order that we might fight the reapers, or all the other things that happen that lead up to fighting the reapers, which we never do.  And since we don't even really win, it's even worse.  I hate the idea of telling people that they need to do things that are totally invalidated by a choice.  It's not fun and not the way to win a non-war.

Agreed, the ending felt too artificial, too phony. For some reason they ignored all our resources, all our potential, and thought they needed some sort of deus ex machina (a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object). Times like these it makes me wonder if the people writing certain acts or arcs were independant from the ending, because time and again the Quarian & Geth resolution involving peace invalidates the Catalyst. I really am curious if that was written by someone else, and if the Reaper tech-assimilation aspect wasn't grafted onto it when it became known as they finished.

I'm going to have some fun here-at least fun for me.  It's another long post, but I just want to consider what the kid represents and what the choices might mean if they are all a part of this.

Don't get me wrong, I love the nightmares to a point.  It's just that kid.  He seemed contrived at the beginning and I just was annoyed with him and I felt no connection.  So, I couldn't help not liking him in the dreams, but I loved the dreams.  You see, I thought he was just a bad fit right along-he's in the vent and says something a kid wouldn't say (you can't help me) and doesn't say what a kid would say (am I gonna die, help me, I'm afraid) or just something authentic.  What he appears to be is like Mouse in ME2, a vent boy who has no one.  And so, in the flesh he seems more like some unreal vision Shepard is having rather than a real boy.  And he's the first person in the game Shepard sees and the last person Shepard sees.  Shepard sees him "alive" at first, sees him die in dreams and then see him as some corollary to a ghost at the end. 

So, I think to go with the thought here, the kid never does exist.  He is a pure fabrication of Shepard's mind.  No one sees him or helps him at the beginning.  And it goes along with the idea of Mouse.  As Thane says, kids like him are the ignored.  That kid is something Shepard is ignoring.  At the end, Shepard is ignoring maybe the real threat and the kid represents the threat.  Shepard loses track of just who s/he is talking to if Shepard makes a choice.  The kid turns Shepard into an idiot, as if it's believable that this catalyst would fool Shepard by being in the likeness of a kid, the kid in Shepard's head.  If you go even further, since that makes no sense that Shepard would be fooled and if you think the kid was never real, then the whole thing with the kid might be Shepard trying to fool him/herself.

Shepard so wants to beat the reapers and has been presented with ideas of how to do things all along.  TIM/the Collectors/the Thorian were Control in the flesh as were others.  Saren/Sovereign were Synthesis in the flesh.  The Quarians/Admiral Xen were Destroy in the flesh.  All of these people/beings represent these choices in Shepard's mind.  They represent ideas, flawed ideas of how the galaxy has always responded to things they don't understand or want for themselves.  The kid and the choices may at last be giving them some form, a way for Shepard to decide who is right in all of this, but nobody was right.  None of these people or beings was right.  The kid merely gives Shepard a reason to choose who was right, but Shepard's mind has to go through so many twists to believe this makes sense that it reinforces what Shepard knows to be true in his/her sane reality based mind. 

Control is akin to indoctrination.  Synthesis is related to the genophage and an artificiality of life-that organic life can be artificial.  Destroy is akin to the Geth/Quarian conflict.  Shepard is replaying what has already happened-the choices are there for Shepard to decide which group of people was right.  Shepard had decided all of this.  So, if Shepard was more paragon and made paragon choices in relation to these items, the end choices are made to seem "better", with outcomes that are happier (ok, nutty happy IMO).  If Shepard was more renegade, the choices don't seem as good, with outcomes that are bleaker or more ominous. 

The choices and outcomes are related to those things that Shepard did only because they reflect the validity of those decisions.  I am saying it is possible that the end choices and the kid are a product of Shepard's mind.  Shepard at that point might see that it might be easier to make some final choice rather than to fight on.  Shepard's tired and wants it over, so his/her mind would be seeking an easy way out of it all.  The kid is in Shepard's mind-Shepard has created the choices in his/her mind.  The kid tells Shepard to wake up, but Shepard is not asleep.  Shepard's mind is trying to rationalize all of this, to make it easier to deal with and to fix.  S/he doesn't want more to die, but only has 3 models to work with and can't come up with a perfect solution.  Refuse/reject are not Shepard waking up or coming out of this haze, but is Shepard rejecting the crucible and an easy choice that is not a perfect solution.  Shepard is choosing not to use it.  It's not only the crucible that is not intact, it's Shepard as well.  It's very possible that Shepard might find a way to be more whole when getting to the citadel and to get to the crucible where there are no choices, but merely the crucible.

This is another way I could see interpreting it all and of doing something I think a lot of people might like to see-maybe not.  I see it possible that if something like this were to happen, it could tie together all wishes-indoctrination/hallucination could be worked into it.  The choices might further be examined-many that like them now still do feel they are not explained or played out well-why not explain them as being products of Shepard's mind and parts of what Shepard has faced already?  I also think this could change the fates of TIM and Anderson--2 characters whose fates now are really somewhat meaningless and confused.  What if the ultimate ending was a true and total redemption for all?  TIM sees his mistakes and is alive.  Anderson is alive as well-not shot by Shepard.  And what if even a final ending totally pulls everything together and reinforces the themes of unity (Shepard regains full control of his/her thoughts, unifies within), redemption, diversity.  I'm just playing with all of this, but it's just to show that what we have now does not rule out anything.

[Isichar]

@3DandBeyond

I really think Xen would be under control, not destroy.

Wouldn't Gerrel be a better example for destroy?

Modifié par Isichar, 22 septembre 2012 - 03:44 .

[3DandBeyond]

Isichar wrote...

@3DandBeyond

I really think Xen would be under control, not destroy.

Wouldn't Gerrel be a better example for destroy?

Maybe, my thought of Xen was that she didn't care about the Geth, didn't see them as being alive at all so their value was in their pieces and technology, not as living beings.  It wasn't so much about destroying them as it was about not seeing them as real living things.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 septembre 2012 - 03:48 .

[Ozida]

Not really an IT supporter, but I also agree that ending choices are not unique (and for that, I do not see them fight). As 3D stated above, Shepard has already made those choices, and so did the player. I am sure that if by the end of ME1 anyone would ask a player what he thinks of Synthesis, he would most likely say that it was a terrible idea.

Control is portrayed as a bad choice too, because it is TIM's dream. And if you follow his plans and leave Collector's base to TIM, everybody on your team says that it was a really bad idea. Not a Paragon choice, at least.

Destroy pretty much is an ultimate goal. By while Shepard is capable to solve other conflicts peacefully (keeping both geths and quarians alive, for example), in Destroy he is presented with ultimatum that doesn't really seem to have a good logical reason behind of it.

That is why I am always kind of surprised when people start talking about "touch choices" and want to hear this: which exact choices are we talking about?.. In my opinion, the hardest thing is to decide which one of 3 horrible things you are going to do with the galaxy, rather than how you are going to stop the Reapers.

[GarvakD]

Deus Ex Machina would be a conventional victory.
I think both Xen and Gerrel would destroy btw.  

Modifié par GarvakD, 22 septembre 2012 - 03:49 .