6432 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

The fact you are still building the crucible and planning to use it to stop the reaper point to the theme of the moral and issues of advancement is still well into the plot.

[Lunch Box1912]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

I think thats what we're trying to say dreman9999

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

dreman9999 is techincally correct in what's being argued. Morality is relative and is based upon perspective and the is a theme of advancement throughout the series. However, that is all that is correct. dreman9999 is still false because it is claiming that Sythesis is acceptable as an ending because this underlying theme exists which is a false claim. This is the ending of the story and the purpose of the ending is to provide resolution to the primary theme of the narrative. Tieing everything up and hanging it onto a sub plot that has already been addressed previously in the story is not how to provide proper story resolution. The central driving goal of the story takes a back seat to a subplot that has already resolved. dreman9999 is posing a Strawman arguement

1. I'm say the it up to the player to take it as ackseptible.

2. The issues of advancement and the morals of it is not a sub plot. It's one of the main themes. The issue was first brought up with the staement that humanity advance because they found tech on mars and later the mass relays. It's a major theme that has been used over and over agien from Cerberus, characters, the reapers and Commander Shepard him/herself.
Synthesis is just a question to the player if any form of advancement is acceptable to the player.
That's my point.

Still sways from the main plot.. Stop the Reapers

No it does not. For us ti defeat the reapers we have to advance ourselves and our tech. That was the very question the choices the collector base choice and cerberus asks.

In ME we need to advance so we have a way to fight the reapers. Shepard being turned to a cyborg points this out.

EDI already stated this, Shepard is still more human than being a cyborg

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

[dreman9999]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

I think thats what we're trying to say dreman9999

I did awnser this.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 septembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[Ithurael]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Assuming you bought those upgrades 

[dreman9999]

Ithurael wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Assuming you bought those upgrades 

There imporvements on the upgrades you already have.

[AresKeith]

Dreman I'm not even gonna continue with you because all you do is argue to get off on arguing

[Taboo]

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Those are optional upgrades. Sorry. You're really reaching here. Yes Shepard was freeze dried when found. Lazarus added tech to help hold things together while they rehydrated tissue and for which new tissue to grow around as they re-animated the tissue. Lawson used stem cells to grow new tissue with Shepard's own DNA.

Shepard is not an example of synthesis, nor is she a hybrid. Those other upgrades were for allowing medigel to get where it was needed to speed up healing processes, and to help strengthen tissue and increase strength. They are not cybernetic implants. They kind of work like the cord in the tires of your car would if they contained a sealant that permanently self-sealed any damage your tires took while you were driving.

These do not count as "mostly synthetic" as stuff that would be destroyed or crap based on reaper tech.

Of course arguing with Dreman is like this.

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

She say his/her mind is organic. That not an indiation on Shepards body. It's is mostly synthetic.

[Taboo]

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

She say his/her mind is organic. That not an indiation on Shepards body. It's is mostly synthetic.

Except when people state otherwise. In game you know.

He would die in Destroy if he was synthetic. Miranda uses Synthetic IMPLANTS to regrow FLESH.

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Those are optional upgrades. Sorry. You're really reaching here. Yes Shepard was freeze dried when found. Lazarus added tech to help hold things together while they rehydrated tissue and for which new tissue to grow around as they re-animated the tissue. Lawson used stem cells to grow new tissue with Shepard's own DNA.

Shepard is not an example of synthesis, nor is she a hybrid. Those other upgrades were for allowing medigel to get where it was needed to speed up healing processes, and to help strengthen tissue and increase strength. They are not cybernetic implants. They kind of work like the cord in the tires of your car would if they contained a sealant that permanently self-sealed any damage your tires took while you were driving.

These do not count as "mostly synthetic" as stuff that would be destroyed or crap based on reaper tech.

Of course arguing with Dreman is like this.

here's what happens after lol

[dreman9999]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Yes, he/she is...
http://masseffect.wi...rnetic_Upgrades 

Shepard ws decribed of being nothing but meat a tube when he/she was found.

Those are optional upgrades. Sorry. You're really reaching here. Yes Shepard was freeze dried when found. Lazarus added tech to help hold things together while they rehydrated tissue and for which new tissue to grow around as they re-animated the tissue. Lawson used stem cells to grow new tissue with Shepard's own DNA.

Shepard is not an example of synthesis, nor is she a hybrid. Those other upgrades were for allowing medigel to get where it was needed to speed up healing processes, and to help strengthen tissue and increase strength. They are not cybernetic implants. They kind of work like the cord in the tires of your car would if they contained a sealant that permanently self-sealed any damage your tires took while you were driving.

These do not count as "mostly synthetic" as stuff that would be destroyed or crap based on reaper tech.

Of course arguing with Dreman is like this.

Yes, Shepard is an exaple of synthesis. He /she is partly synthetic. Whe Shepard was found, it was stated he was nothing but meat a tube...
Look at what Miranda describs it...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TTXslQL30&feature=player_detailpage#t=318s

Bio-synthetic fussion.

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

She say his/her mind is organic. That not an indiation on Shepards body. It's is mostly synthetic.

Except when people state otherwise. In game you know.

He would die in Destroy if he was synthetic. Miranda uses Synthetic IMPLANTS to regrow FLESH.

1.
 
EDI:You're fully human. Cerberus extensivly reconstructed you, but your brain functions are organic

2. I'm not say Shepard is fully synthetic. I'm say he is partly synthetic.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 septembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Lunch Box1912]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

The fact you are still building the crucible and planning to use it to stop the reaper point to the theme of the moral and issues of advancement is still well into the plot.

When tomorrow may not come everything is necessary even building the crucible, thus throwing the wrong or right consequences of tech development out the window, to base the ending off of this is poor writing. The main goal of the game is to safeguard the galaxy and defeat the reaper threat; you don’t foreshadow indifference in the evolution of synthetics and non synthetics and make it the ending conflict. EVEN IF YOU USE THIS PLOT TO EXPLAIN THE REAPERS EXISTANCE. It is a conflict of a cycle long past and the main conflict now is how to stop it, not throw hundreds and thousands of years of information at you all at once and tell you to make a decision in 20 minutes. As awesome as I thought this twist was you don’t need to solve the evolution problem to stop the reapers, Bioware just makes it so. There is no reason this could not be addressed separate from the reaper threat at a later time. This is an excellent sub plot throughout the game and should have affected how you arrive to your ending. The writers chose to throw this at you to make your decisions tough to make, which complements the Talkie Techy genera of the entire series. It was never the main conflict in ME until the last 20 min. By making this the main conflict and not the stopping of the reapers the writers eliminated the major plot throughout the entirety of three games and placed in it's place the evolution struggle in the last 20min of the final game.

With that said I believe if they wanted to go deeper into this issue and make it the new conflict, then ME3 should simply have introduced this to us and paved the way to a ME4 where this could be addressed, not ram it down your throat in 20 min. The idea is cool, the foreshadowing is there but it should not have been the main conflict in the end. Stopping the Reapers at all cost should have been. Bioware could have even still eliminated Shepard from the story through the Reaper Conflict if they felt his story must end.

So again you are correct, all the things you are pointing out are there. I am just trying to explain why we dislike them and why this thread is important to me and other gamers.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:01 .

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

She say his/her mind is organic. That not an indiation on Shepards body. It's is mostly synthetic.

"You are fully human.  Cerberus extensively reconstructed you, but your brain functions are organic"

EDI, to Shepard

Just to get the exact phrasing out there

edit: Bah, should have looked further down to see it was already linked 

Modifié par iakus, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[dreman9999]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

The fact you are still building the crucible and planning to use it to stop the reaper point to the theme of the moral and issues of advancement is still well into the plot.

When tomorrow may not come everything is necessary even building the crucible, thus throwing the wrong or right consequences of tech development out the window, to base the ending off of this is poor writing. The main goal of the game is to safeguard the galaxy and defeat the reaper threat; you don’t foreshadow indifference in the evolution of synthetics and non synthetics and make it the ending conflict. EVEN IF YOU USE THIS PLOT TO EXPLAIN THE REAPERS EXISTANCE. It is a conflict of a cycle long past and the main conflict now is how to stop it, not throw hundreds and thousands of years of information at you all at once and tell you to make a decision in 20 minutes. As awesome as I thought this twist was you don’t need to solve the evolution problem to stop the reapers, Bioware just makes it so. There is no reason this could not be addressed separate from the reaper threat at a later time. This is an excellent sub plot throughout the game and should have affected how you arrive to your ending. The writers chose to throw this at you to make your decisions tough to make, which complements the Talkie Techy genera of the entire series. It was never the main conflict in ME until the last 20 min. By making this the main conflict and not the stopping of the reapers the writers eliminated the major plot throughout the entirety of three games and placed in it's place the evolution struggle in the last 20min of the final game.

With that said I believe if they wanted to go deeper into this issue and make it the new conflict, then ME3 should simply have introduced this to us and paved the way to a ME4 where this could be addressed, not ram it down your throat in 20 min. The idea is cool, the foreshadowing is there but it should not have been the main conflict in the end. Stopping the Reapers at all cost should have been. Bioware could have even still eliminated Shepard from the story through the Reaper Conflict if they felt his story must end.

So again you are correct, all the things you are pointing out are there. I am just trying to explain why we dislike them and why this thread is important to me and other gamers.

Here's the thing you missing. You don't have to take anything what the catalyst states as relivent. It's up to you to beleive him. All the catalyst is telling you is how everything happen. It does not mean you have to solve it or beleive you need to solve it.
That's why you have 2 other options out sideof synthesis. The only time it shows the  player accepts what the catalyst states as true is if they pick synthesis.
The catalyst problem is your problem. It may be the cause of your problem but it's not your problem.

All the catalyst is is just a voice box of the reapers. He lay what to be done to you because he can't choose destory or control and synthesis need you body. You havethe control of the out come of this meeting not it. If you on't think he is right, don't pick synthetic. The fact that they made him the leader of the reapers is so the player can doubt him.

[my Aim is True]

Yes! Bioware, break free from the rEAper and fix ME3!
Redo Priority:Earth while you're at it, that mission sucked.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

my Aim is True wrote...

Yes! Bioware, break free from the rEAper and fix ME3!
Redo Priority:Earth while you're at it, that mission sucked.

Agreed. Give us a videogamey ending.

[mass perfection]

The right thing?Dinosaur DLC.

[Lunch Box1912]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

The fact you are still building the crucible and planning to use it to stop the reaper point to the theme of the moral and issues of advancement is still well into the plot.

When tomorrow may not come everything is necessary even building the crucible, thus throwing the wrong or right consequences of tech development out the window, to base the ending off of this is poor writing. The main goal of the game is to safeguard the galaxy and defeat the reaper threat; you don’t foreshadow indifference in the evolution of synthetics and non synthetics and make it the ending conflict. EVEN IF YOU USE THIS PLOT TO EXPLAIN THE REAPERS EXISTANCE. It is a conflict of a cycle long past and the main conflict now is how to stop it, not throw hundreds and thousands of years of information at you all at once and tell you to make a decision in 20 minutes. As awesome as I thought this twist was you don’t need to solve the evolution problem to stop the reapers, Bioware just makes it so. There is no reason this could not be addressed separate from the reaper threat at a later time. This is an excellent sub plot throughout the game and should have affected how you arrive to your ending. The writers chose to throw this at you to make your decisions tough to make, which complements the Talkie Techy genera of the entire series. It was never the main conflict in ME until the last 20 min. By making this the main conflict and not the stopping of the reapers the writers eliminated the major plot throughout the entirety of three games and placed in it's place the evolution struggle in the last 20min of the final game.

With that said I believe if they wanted to go deeper into this issue and make it the new conflict, then ME3 should simply have introduced this to us and paved the way to a ME4 where this could be addressed, not ram it down your throat in 20 min. The idea is cool, the foreshadowing is there but it should not have been the main conflict in the end. Stopping the Reapers at all cost should have been. Bioware could have even still eliminated Shepard from the story through the Reaper Conflict if they felt his story must end.

So again you are correct, all the things you are pointing out are there. I am just trying to explain why we dislike them and why this thread is important to me and other gamers.

Here's the thing you missing. You don't have to take anything what the catalyst states as relivent. It's up to you to beleive him. All the catalyst is telling you is how everything happen. It does not mean you have to solve it or beleive you need to solve it.
That's why you have 2 other options out sideof synthesis. The only time it shows the  player accepts what the catalyst states as true is if they pick synthesis.
The catalyst problem is your problem. It may be the cause of your problem but it's not your problem.

All the catalyst is is just a voice box of the reapers. He lay what to be done to you because he can't choose destory or control and synthesis need you body. You havethe control of the out come of this meeting not it. If you on't think he is right, don't pick synthetic. The fact that they made him the leader of the reapers is so the player can doubt him.

This can be deduced as they give us nothing to go off of. 

I believe the series deserves a better ending than what was laid out and if I wanted to dream up my own ending I wouldn’t have played the game in the first place. I chose to play the game because it took me on an adventure and told me a rich story in which Bioware abruptly banked a sharp left from in the last 20 min and dumped me off leaving me to ask what the hell just happened?  Then addressing us from their website and telling us it’s that way so you can make it what you want.  I’m sorry the Mass Effect series just deserves better. The fans deserve better. You dreman9999 deserve better.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She says our mind is still mostly organic, not our bodies. Shepard's body is still mostly synthetic. The fact he/she is mostly synthetic to not only stay alive but helps him/her fight the reaper adds to the theme of the issues and morality of advancement. The normady does as well.

Shepard's body is not mostly Synthetic

Redo the opening of ME2...Then come back.

[dreman9999]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Based off how you handled Legion and EDI in ME2 and ME3, the answers surrounding this topic should have mostly been dealt with after ME2 and used to shape your ending not entwined with the main plot completely effecting it’s outcome.

The fact you are still building the crucible and planning to use it to stop the reaper point to the theme of the moral and issues of advancement is still well into the plot.

When tomorrow may not come everything is necessary even building the crucible, thus throwing the wrong or right consequences of tech development out the window, to base the ending off of this is poor writing. The main goal of the game is to safeguard the galaxy and defeat the reaper threat; you don’t foreshadow indifference in the evolution of synthetics and non synthetics and make it the ending conflict. EVEN IF YOU USE THIS PLOT TO EXPLAIN THE REAPERS EXISTANCE. It is a conflict of a cycle long past and the main conflict now is how to stop it, not throw hundreds and thousands of years of information at you all at once and tell you to make a decision in 20 minutes. As awesome as I thought this twist was you don’t need to solve the evolution problem to stop the reapers, Bioware just makes it so. There is no reason this could not be addressed separate from the reaper threat at a later time. This is an excellent sub plot throughout the game and should have affected how you arrive to your ending. The writers chose to throw this at you to make your decisions tough to make, which complements the Talkie Techy genera of the entire series. It was never the main conflict in ME until the last 20 min. By making this the main conflict and not the stopping of the reapers the writers eliminated the major plot throughout the entirety of three games and placed in it's place the evolution struggle in the last 20min of the final game.

With that said I believe if they wanted to go deeper into this issue and make it the new conflict, then ME3 should simply have introduced this to us and paved the way to a ME4 where this could be addressed, not ram it down your throat in 20 min. The idea is cool, the foreshadowing is there but it should not have been the main conflict in the end. Stopping the Reapers at all cost should have been. Bioware could have even still eliminated Shepard from the story through the Reaper Conflict if they felt his story must end.

So again you are correct, all the things you are pointing out are there. I am just trying to explain why we dislike them and why this thread is important to me and other gamers.

Here's the thing you missing. You don't have to take anything what the catalyst states as relivent. It's up to you to beleive him. All the catalyst is telling you is how everything happen. It does not mean you have to solve it or beleive you need to solve it.
That's why you have 2 other options out sideof synthesis. The only time it shows the  player accepts what the catalyst states as true is if they pick synthesis.
The catalyst problem is your problem. It may be the cause of your problem but it's not your problem.

All the catalyst is is just a voice box of the reapers. He lay what to be done to you because he can't choose destory or control and synthesis need you body. You havethe control of the out come of this meeting not it. If you on't think he is right, don't pick synthetic. The fact that they made him the leader of the reapers is so the player can doubt him.

This can be deduced as they give us nothing to go off of. 

I believe the series deserves a better ending than what was laid out and if I wanted to dream up my own ending I wouldn’t have played the game in the first place. I chose to play the game because it took me on an adventure and told me a rich story in which Bioware abruptly banked a sharp left from in the last 20 min and dumped me off leaving me to ask what the hell just happened?  Then addressing us from their website and telling us it’s that way so you can make it what you want.  I’m sorry the Mass Effect series just deserves better. The fans deserve better. You dreman9999 deserve better.

An easy way out is not better. And I not upset with what I got in EC. Nor do I feel the catalyst ruin the series. We would of gotten these choice catalyst or not. He is just there to understand the reapers, nothing more.

The entire point with the end choices was to bring th eplayer to moral conflict over them, which was something advertized by bw for ME day one.

I'm fine with the ec endings I got.