6432 réponses à ce sujet

[N7 Assass1n]

Dreman, stop bringing out pointless arguments that people have already given ample support for their claims. I cannot count how many times before I joined this site while searching for Mass Effect related data and so many threads we derailed by your belligerent blabber that half the time you spell words wrong. Please stop. For everyone's sake.

[Lunch Box1912]

No one ever said anything about an easy way out.... The whole ending should not exist period. I'm not asking for it to be easy, I'm asking for a better story. You want to bring me right back to the catalyst Bioware after rewriting the ending that’s fine. Give us a story though that doesn’t have 8 milion plot holes and “ leaves it up to us” to make what of it.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:03 .

[dreman9999]

N7 Assass1n wrote...

Dreman, stop bringing out pointless arguments that people have already given ample support for their claims. I cannot count how many times before I joined this site while searching for Mass Effect related data and so many threads we derailed by your belligerent blabber that half the time you spell words wrong. Please stop. For everyone's sake.

Nothing I stated derail the thread. They're just counter points. 

[dreman9999]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

No one ever said anything about an easy way out.... The whole ending should not exist period. I'm not asking for it to be easy, I'm asking for a better story. You want to bring me right back to the catalyst Bioware after rewriting the ending that’s fine. Give us a story though that doesn’t have 8 milion plot holes and “ leaves it up to us” to make what of it.

As I said before , it's clear you just upset withthe last 4 choices on hand.  None of those choices have any plot holes. Just one being not fully explain on perpose so we can question it and the issue of advancement in general.
And even then your not force to pick it.

The choice at the end of the game aren't bad, they are just  moraly conflicting choices.

Modifié par dreman9999, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[Lunch Box1912]

I'm through with this conversation it ended two posts ago.

Thank you  N7 Assass1n for helping me see the light!

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:37 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .

[N7 Assass1n]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I'm through with this conversation it ended two posts ago.

Thank you  N7 Assass1n for helping me see the light!

No problem.

[N7 Assass1n]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

Thank you for saving me the time to type that all out. It vents my feelings as well.

[dreman9999]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

As I said before , it's clear you just upset withthe last 4 choices on hand.  The choice at the end of the game aren't bad, they are just  moraly conflicting choices. 
As for no hope,the galexy is place where the people ypu leave behind can rebuild it not matter what ending you pick out side of refuse. The galexy keeps going with your race, other races ,li , and the people you care still in it fully able to rebuild form the ashes...That's a hopeless ending?

It's not that the ending is hopelss, you just don't want to lose anything to get that hopeful furture for everyone. That what make the choices in the end moraly conflicting.

Your shepard dieing or lossing something to win does not equal hopeless.

Added it doesn't matter if th catalystis there or not. If someone else gave you the 4 choices in the end you still would be upset over them.

[AresKeith]

*ignores dreman

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I'm through with this conversation it ended two posts ago.

Thank you  N7 Assass1n for helping me see the light!

yea, its best to

[mjb203]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

In regards to the "videogamey" comment, I would have appreciated the possibility of the triumph (and yes, it should have been very difficult to acheive).  I just don't get why Bioware didn't want to make things too "videogamey", when they effectively game us a very "videogamey" score system in the form of EMS. 

Sorry, you can't get the breath easteregg, you only have 3099 points!  You needed 3100 (or 4000 before EC).  Game over.  <- That is the reason I can't take the, "we didn't want to make it videogamey" excuse very well.

Edit: grammar

Modifié par mjb203, 25 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[3DandBeyond]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard is organic. EDI states this in game IN dialogue. Google it and stop presenting bull**** as facts.

He is an organic with synthetic components that were used to regrow flesh. Listen to Miranda.

He no longer needs them by the time Destroy comes around.

Exactly, gotta love Miranda.  Is it ok that I'm sucking up to you if I really do like Miranda?  My Shepard is female but so appreciates Miranda's friendship.  And even if mine were male, Miranda likes your Shepard best.

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

I too would have appreciated a more difficult suicide mission at the end of ME3.  They needed to act like it was a video game instead of someone's insane thesis on how other games and movies and tv shows ended.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[3DandBeyond]

mjb203 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

In regards to the "videogamey" comment, I would have appreciated the possibility of the triumph (and yes, it should have been very difficult to acheive).  I just don't get why Bioware didn't want to make things too "videogamey", when they effectively game us a very "videogamey" score system in the form of EMS. 

Sorry, you can't get the breath easteregg, you only have 3099 points!  You needed 3100 (or 4000 before EC).  Game over.  <- That is the reason I can't take the, "we didn't want to make it videogamey" excuse very well.

Edit: grammar

Actually the ending now is more gamey than videogame.  It isn't intellectual.  I sometimes read intellectual things and struggle to understand them.  I understand this and it's the least satisfying game ending I've ever played.  Other games had endings that were too short, not exciting, or whatever, but they were still more fun.

I love Uncharted and am particularly fond of the first one-but the end bad guy fight wasn't great and it was just odd to have to do but the epilog was fun and the ending boss bad guy didn't need to be super great.  He just had to be beatable. 

Now, ME should be seen for its own merits and not compared with Uncharted.  They aren't the same type of games.  And I wouldn't want ME3 to have some easy way to win it-I expected something tough, something bold, and ultimately something fully winnable, fun, and satisfying.  Something more game than gamey.

[BearlyHere]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

my Aim is True wrote...

Yes! Bioware, break free from the rEAper and fix ME3!
Redo Priority:Earth while you're at it, that mission sucked.

Agreed. Give us a videogamey ending.

Yes, please! Anything but the cartooney ending we got.

[3DandBeyond]

BearlyHere wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

my Aim is True wrote...

Yes! Bioware, break free from the rEAper and fix ME3!
Redo Priority:Earth while you're at it, that mission sucked.

Agreed. Give us a videogamey ending.

Yes, please! Anything but the cartooney ending we got.

It's Casper the Friendly Reaper

And I don't know how anyone could say that something in a video game with those reaper fetch quests and EMS (as was said) and all could be said to be any more video gamey than that.  Except for pretentious nonsense that is too much to take seriously. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:48 .

[Jamie9]

There is no such thing as something being "video-gamey". It's the equivalent of saying something is "booky".

If it's in a video game, it's "video-gamey". Every ending to every game is "video-gamey".

I'm throwing this in with words like "casual" and "gamer entitlement". These are words that just shouldn't be used, because they carry connotations that don't exist.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

dreman9999 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What I'm irritated about is the 5 years of a relationship with this story, and the protagonist into whom I made the mistake of putting way too much of myself into. See I thought this was a RPG about choices where those choices mattered, and it turned out they didn't. And I was taken in by the story, the characters, and since March this has been like going through an ugly divorce.

I've tried being reasonable. We've all tried being reasonable, but they seemed determined to undermine and leave a very large fanbase with an ending to a series that leaves one without hope. The EC just sugar coated it but underneath the sugar coating is the same crap we were given in March, just with pretty slides and some dialogue added. Shepard still dies in 2.77 endings and is in a pile of rubble taking a gasp of air as a "glimmer of hope" in 0.3 of them. Glimmers are not very much.

Please note that even if you think that we, the dissatisfied are a "minority" we are still a very large number. The vocal ones only made up about 3-4%.

Granted the story is quite grim, but a triumph against the invaders as difficult as it might have been would have been welcome, videogamey as that might have been. The lack of that is going to bite BioWare in the ass, and I think it is already doing that.

I really didn't need to have StarChild at the end. Its existance is a giant WTF at the end, but now they're making DLC to "foreshadow" it. That in itself is bad writing. You do that before the fact, not after the fact. I didn't need to have moral choices at the end. Bottom line is that Walters & Hudson screwed the pooch.

I would have been content with a Suicide Mission version 2.0: a more difficult Suicide Mission 1.0. Make your war assets and weapons upgrades matter.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">As I said before , it's clear you just upset withthe last 4 choices on hand.  ]The choice at the end of the game aren't bad, they are just  moraly conflicting choices.[/color] 
As for no hope,the galexy is place where the people ypu leave behind can rebuild it not matter what ending you pick out side of refuse. The galexy keeps going with your race, other races ,li , and the people you care still in it fully able to rebuild form the ashes...That's a hopeless ending?

It's not that the ending is hopelss, you just don't want to lose anything to get that hopeful furture for everyone. That what make the choices in the end moraly conflicting.

Your shepard dieing or lossing something to win does not equal hopeless.

Added it doesn't matter if th catalystis there or not. If someone else gave you the 4 choices in the end you still would be upset over them.

See bold: to me it does. That's the bottom line. And on top of it to turn the galaxy into a wasteland was just why did I even bother to play this? And then that breath scene was the final insult. The original ending still stings. I can still see it through the EC. The EC looks like a badly done propaganda film trying to convince me that the original ending wasn't that bad. We will have to agree to disagree.

I didn't invest 5 years into this story to just have it end like that. This is a game. A game implies there is a chance of winning. Heroes can come home. It is not a movie. It is not a television series.

In the past you used to be able to win a game. It seems to be a trend now that you play a game that you play as a protagonist where you can't win. Mass Effect 3 you cannot win. Feeling emotionally empty for several days afterward is not the result of winning. It is the result of feeling helpless and making a choice that compromises ones ethics just to end it. I blew up the galaxy and turned it into a wasteland on March 22, 2012 at 0320 hrs. and Commander Shepard is still laying in that pile of rubble. I had 5500 EMS. (100% readiness). "Commander Shepard is now a legend. Buy DLC."

I waited 5 years to do that. Five years!! You may call that a win. I sure as hell do not.

You may like grim/dark/bleak endings in games. I do not. I do not like them rammed down my throat. Companies that produce games like that tend to have small niche consumer bases because life is bleak enough.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Jamie9 wrote...

There is no such thing as something being "video-gamey". It's the equivalent of saying something is "booky".

If it's in a video game, it's "video-gamey". Every ending to every game is "video-gamey".

I'm throwing this in with words like "casual" and "gamer entitlement". These are words that just shouldn't be used, because they carry connotations that don't exist.

I'm quoting Casey Hudson, producer of Mass Effect 3. He coined that word HERE so don't shoot the messenger.

[Jamie9]

Sigh. This again Shotgun.

You imply that it's okay for movies and TV series to have a variety of endings, but games must always end the same way.

This isn't the case. If I won every game, the impact would be lessened. Knowing that I COULD lose, is what brings tension on that first playthrough. I don't know how it's going to turn out.

You win in at least 80% of fiction anyhow, so I have no idea why you complain about it.

[Jamie9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I'm quoting Casey Hudson, producer of Mass Effect 3. He coined that word HERE so don't shoot the messenger.

It wasn't directed at you, don't worry. It's the media that has warped these words. Casey Hudson shouldn't have used that term, because it makes no god damn sense.

How can you not have a "video-gamey" ending, Casey? You're writing a video game!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Jamie9 wrote...

Sigh. This again Shotgun.

You imply that it's okay for movies and TV series to have a variety of endings, but games must always end the same way.

This isn't the case. If I won every game, the impact would be lessened. Knowing that I COULD lose, is what brings tension on that first playthrough. I don't know how it's going to turn out.

You win in at least 80% of fiction anyhow, so I have no idea why you complain about it.

Yes this again. Deal with it.

You don't need to always have a "boss fight", but you've been fighting boss fights the entire game: Tuchanka, Rannoch, rigged ones against Kai Leng, then finally against Kai Leng. For most of the game it's been a third person shooter with some dialogue in between fire fights.

And of course you could lose if you don't do everything just right, but I tend to be a completionist in games and do as much as I can. Why I only had 5500 was because of that stupid journal. It was the worst thing I'd ever seen in a game -- come on BioWare, Skyrim's was pretty bad this time, but this was horrid. I missed half of the stuff because the codex didn't even tell you where the planets were. Come on Codex. In ME1 they told you what systems stuff was in. ME3? No. You had to go online and buy a walkthrough because they were too lazy to put it in there.

But if you do everything right, you should be able to win. That's the point.

[Jamie9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Yes this again. Deal with it.

You don't need to always have a "boss fight", but you've been fighting boss fights the entire game: Tuchanka, Rannoch, rigged ones against Kai Leng, then finally against Kai Leng. For most of the game it's been a third person shooter with some dialogue in between fire fights.

And of course you could lose if you don't do everything just right, but I tend to be a completionist in games and do as much as I can. Why I only had 5500 was because of that stupid journal. It was the worst thing I'd ever seen in a game -- come on BioWare, Skyrim's was pretty bad this time, but this was horrid. I missed half of the stuff because the codex didn't even tell you where the planets were. Come on Codex. In ME1 they told you what systems stuff was in. ME3? No. You had to go online and buy a walkthrough because they were too lazy to put it in there.

But if you do everything right, you should be able to win. That's the point.

I found the Reaper Destroyer boss on Rannoch hilarious. Firstly, it's the only thing that killed me on my first playthrough (I played on normal to get the story).

Secondly, it can't aim AT ALL. It is literally the worst Reaper in existance. If we fought Harbinger like that in the finale, I'd have probably been too busy laughing to take anything seriously.

A question concerning "sad" or "bittersweet" endings. How do you feel about purely linear games? Can they have sad endings?

Yeah, I practically have gaming OCD. In fact, if I miss something, I often do restart the game. I've never had any problem with the journal, however. Just go to the galaxy map and hover over each system. If it doesn't say 100% resources found, you need to scan planets there.

[GarvakD]

In regards to Shepard's cybernetics. In addition to Miranda's statements, Cerberus audio/video logs, discussions throughout the game, and the fact that Shepard is nowhere near an Adam Jensen level of modification, I feel safe to say his survival in destroy was justified.

I saw that video. I started researching IT a bit more. Started looking back on Bioware comments. Its got me worried now. What if this ME4 is basically ME3 revamped, but acknowledging the existence of IT in greater detail. Having him break free of it.  If the accepted indoctrination point for Shepard is where Arghos Rho interacts with him (rather than at the end of the ME3 Priority: Earth or something else), then all the events of ME3 would never have occurred. Everything I went through. All the story. The building of relationships and decisions. The relationship with my LI. Non-existent. Horrifying. But probably isn't true. Just as lame as synthesis canon though.

Modifié par GarvakD, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[Babizokahh]

I agree and disagree with many posts here. While i actually like having to make the difficult moral choices in the end, i dislike that my Shepard, which i've build for several years, will not have a happy ending. Yes, i had a high ESM, chose to Destroy, and i did get the "breathe" in the end, but this was just not enough. ME3 had several ending and Shepard has the same fate in all of them. Bioware could have done it better. They could have given us the possibility of a true happy ending. They just chose not to .