6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Epique Phael767]

3DandBeyond wrote...



Unity, diversity, and redemption.  

I thought these were the themes as well.

Bioware didn't mess up entirely with changing them. where they really messed up was the gross widening of the target audience. "You like ME? too bad, we need more money."

If that wasn't enough, they assigned a (I hat to say complex, but) "complex" ending to an audience that mostly wouldn't understand it. ME is and was never about the action and shooting, it was about the story and the way you feel you impacted the world around you. 

The obvious result from all of this is a diluted game that barely resembles what made it great, and a destroyed story because someone tried to paint a masterpiece that wasn't even worthy to be put on their mother's fridge.

I hope Bioware's happy with all their ignorant decisions. cough cough ending fallacies, chobot robot, starbrat, action-mode, broken MP cough. I also hope that they're prepared to not have the pleasure of recieving my money unless things change, and I mean big changes, not the two lines of pointless wasted dialogue added in leviathan.

This just goes to show how far someone can fall whe n their success goes straight to their head.

[sharkboy421]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BearlyHere wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The only thing with number 1 is this-they are already doing that now.  I know you know that.  If somehow at the end DLC was used to prove once and for all the kid is the culmination of idiotic attempts to fight off the big machines that became reapers, and he was changed greatly by something within DLC, it wouldn't fix the problems of him not being around in ME1.  I have figured out how they could do that, but it's all stuff that was so unnecessary.  The reapers had a leader.  They could have used him to explain they are there just to kill and pillage and eat or whatever. 

The problem with #1 too is that it means they did sell us an incomplete game, with a day 1 dlc for another $10 that obviously was culled from the game to increase their profit. It's the worst way to run a business. Sure, they make money up front, but after awile, even the dullest Bubbles will realize they're been had. It's not sustainable, but unfortunately, the current trend seems to go for the fast bucks.

Yes, that does indicate they sold an incomplete game and Javik or a prothean was originally supposed to be the catalyst.  The release of the EC already sets the precedent, even if it was free that the game was not finished.  And, there's never been any concern or consideration for the people that have no internet and that couldn't even get that.  So, they never even got the torso ending unless they could figure out some way to add on content without any online capability.

Well to be fair to Bioware ME3 is a complete game.  Javik was written out of the game (as fascinating as he is, he is not essential to the plot) and the vanilla, on disc endings do wrap things up.  They sucked something awful but they were there.  The EC fleshed them out and made sense of it (to an extent), but I didn't see ME3 as incomplete.  However I do agree that this focus on dlc is very concerning as developers seem to think its ok to hold extra content back to sell later.

As to your first response 3D I personally do not see how they can make the catalyst relevant to the first two games.  No matter what dlc they release giving context and exposition about the reapers and the catalyst, he is simply too far removed from what the reapers were in the first games to make any sense.  You and I know that and I would imagine there are at least few people at Bioware scratching their heads at the situation as well.  And it just sucks that Bioware is working so hard to make the catalyst relevant and it shows.  Hell they have the basis for an entirely different game that would be pretty awesome.  Its just not Mass Effect like they keep insisting. 

[sharkboy421]

Epique Phael767 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Unity, diversity, and redemption.  

I thought these were the themes as well.

Bioware didn't mess up entirely with changing them. where they really messed up was the gross widening of the target audience. "You like ME? too bad, we need more money."

If that wasn't enough, they assigned a (I hat to say complex, but) "complex" ending to an audience that mostly wouldn't understand it. ME is and was never about the action and shooting, it was about the story and the way you feel you impacted the world around you. 

The obvious result from all of this is a diluted game that barely resembles what made it great, and a destroyed story because someone tried to paint a masterpiece that wasn't even worthy to be put on their mother's fridge.

I hope Bioware's happy with all their ignorant decisions. cough cough ending fallacies, chobot robot, starbrat, action-mode, broken MP cough. I also hope that they're prepared to not have the pleasure of recieving my money unless things change, and I mean big changes, not the two lines of pointless wasted dialogue added in leviathan.

This just goes to show how far someone can fall whe n their success goes straight to their head.

Apologies for posting back to back but I wanted to seconded this.  Both bolded sections are great but the second one especially confused me.  Bioware said they wanted CoD's audience.  Alright. . .ME3 is a really good shooter.  Granted the combat was never the focus but I'm glad they tightened the controls and made the combat as good as it is.  But CoD is an action game with a very simple story.  And while fun, it cannot touch the master pieces of story telling that are ME1 and ME2.  ME3 had touches of this as well but if you wanted to really capture that CoD audience why on earth would you create a "deep" and "artistic" ending?  Hell when I heard that statement from Bioware I was expecting ME3 to end like MW3 did: you killing the big bad in an epic battle.  And dammit I would have loved that.

[Snypy]

GarvakD wrote...

Snypy wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

Here's some news

http://news.softpedi...ed-294864.shtml

It's definitely fake. The schedule is way too tight. It would be impossible for BioWare to develop all those DLCs in such a short time. 

I have to agree there.  But maybe the schedule is not accurate?  Hell, if this list is valid, I'm a damned happy person.  It has all the things I desire.  And that last DLC...mmmmm.  Perfect list.
Bioware, GET ON IT!  Take all my money!  I'll even pay good money for those theoretical free DLCs listed.  You get money and an ecstatically happy fanbase!  (P.S. that artistic integrity thing is still there for those who don't get the DLC)  

Another reason why I think it's fake is the fact that it has all the stuff which fans desire. 

Modifié par Snypy, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:03 .

[PPF65]

@3DandBeyond, I have to say, everything you said describes exactly how I feel.

Bioware, listen to this individual.

[Snypy]

ld1449 wrote...

Snypy wrote...

[...]


From Ashes is optional. It has little effect on the story and no effect on the ending. Therefore, I don't see a problem with it being a Day One DLC. In addition, BioWare developed it after ME3 was finished. (The voice acting and a few other things were done alongside the main game, though.)

Uhhhh...Nooooo. Javik was cut from the game. Blatantly really.

In the original script Javik WAS the Catalyst. So I doubt they developed the entire game and put in the "Catalyst" for last. They developed him then they changed the script and realised they could make a quick buck by cutting out a character everyone wanted.

Could you immagine James Vega or Edi selling like Javik? Because that's the only two options that they had considering that everyone else was already on your squad beforehand.

ME3 isn't a cake. You can't just cut content out of it and sell it separately. The game would never work. Perhaps the Prothean appeared as the Catalyst in the original script, but so did many other things which didn't make it into the final game.

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

[Ozida]

Snypy wrote...

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

I actually agree. For the only living Prothean, Javik was boring (not in terms of his dialogues, but in terms of his story and impact on the plot). Even the dialogue with Hanar on Citadel... I mean, imaging meeting who you think would be a God one day. It would've been huge! Probably would be all around the news too… And instead they chatted for a bit and said good-byes. Yeah, that's show how much Hanars believe in Protheans. /*sarcasm*

However, I disagree with the fact that BW didn't cut parts of ME3 to sell it later. Leviathan by the look of it is quit critical to the story (I’ve only Youtubed it, but it gives some sense). Would it help with the concept behind the endings? Yeah, most likely. Getting it now is no real sense, to be honest. Also, this is kind of speculative, but someone has posted that Omega files can be found on original disc. If this is true, how is it not cutting pieces to sell them after?

Modifié par Ozida, 27 septembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Snypy]

Ozida wrote...

Snypy wrote...

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

I actually agree. For the only living Prothean, Javik was boring (not in terms of his dialogues, but in terms of his story and impact on the plot). Even the dialogue with Hanar on Citadel... I mean, imaging meeting who you think would be a God one day. It would've been huge! Probably would be all around the news too… And instead they chatted for a bit and said good-byes. Yeah, that's show how much Hanars believe in Protheans. /*sarcasm*

However, I disagree with the fact that BW didn't cut parts of ME3 to sell it later. Leviathan by the look of it is quit critical to the story (I’ve only Youtubed it, but it gives some sense). Would it help with the concept behind the endings? Yeah, most likely. Getting it now is no real sense, to be honest. Also, this is kind of speculative, but someone has posted that Omega files can be found on original disc. If this is true, how is it not cutting pieces to sell them after?

Well, it all comes down to what you consider to be a complete game. For me, personally, ME3 is complete even without paid DLC. After all, the story of the trilogy isn't so much about understanding the Reapers as it is about defeating them. Vigil says it itself on Ilos.

There are some files for Omega in the Leviathan DLC, but I haven't read anything about the files being on the original disc. Besides, people post fake stuff all the time. It's kind of hard to believe anything on the Internet these days without a proof.

Finally, what point would there be in creating additional content, which is unwanted and uninteresting?

[3DandBeyond]

sharkboy421 wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Unity, diversity, and redemption.  

I thought these were the themes as well.

Bioware didn't mess up entirely with changing them. where they really messed up was the gross widening of the target audience. "You like ME? too bad, we need more money."

If that wasn't enough, they assigned a (I hat to say complex, but) "complex" ending to an audience that mostly wouldn't understand it. ME is and was never about the action and shooting, it was about the story and the way you feel you impacted the world around you. 

The obvious result from all of this is a diluted game that barely resembles what made it great, and a destroyed story because someone tried to paint a masterpiece that wasn't even worthy to be put on their mother's fridge.

I hope Bioware's happy with all their ignorant decisions. cough cough ending fallacies, chobot robot, starbrat, action-mode, broken MP cough. I also hope that they're prepared to not have the pleasure of recieving my money unless things change, and I mean big changes, not the two lines of pointless wasted dialogue added in leviathan.

This just goes to show how far someone can fall whe n their success goes straight to their head.

Apologies for posting back to back but I wanted to seconded this.  Both bolded sections are great but the second one especially confused me.  Bioware said they wanted CoD's audience.  Alright. . .ME3 is a really good shooter.  Granted the combat was never the focus but I'm glad they tightened the controls and made the combat as good as it is.  But CoD is an action game with a very simple story.  And while fun, it cannot touch the master pieces of story telling that are ME1 and ME2.  ME3 had touches of this as well but if you wanted to really capture that CoD audience why on earth would you create a "deep" and "artistic" ending?  Hell when I heard that statement from Bioware I was expecting ME3 to end like MW3 did: you killing the big bad in an epic battle.  And dammit I would have loved that.

Your last statement is what is so counter-intuitive about the whole thing.  However, the ending does in many ways more appeal to those that like weak story/heavy combat.  I say this because of the statements made when the EC was released.  If someone said they loved it (rare), they'd say it was soooooo cooool to be reaper god and have that power.  Or they'd say that it was great to be a cyborg and maybe immortal.  Most comments just said the cutscenes were great but there was never any consideration of what it meant.  I even asked and comments (I got 3 responses) went from "I didn't care about ME1 and 2 or any of the people in the game".  This is exactly the audience I would think you don't want liking a story heavy game.

Most of the people that dislike the endings, at least in part didn't like it because it wasn't smart and because it was trying to be so in a place where action should be the heaviest.  And from what I've read, most of those in this category loved the story part of the game as much as if not more than the combat aspects.

So, it seems people that love heavier combat love the endings. People that love a story rich game, don't. This is a generalization and it's only formed from what I've read of comments about it.  Now there are others that have formed their own head canon about the endings and others that will say it's badly done but is ok because you have to make tough choices in war.  All this just means to me that people that say such things don't get the idea that at the end of a big war story or game or movie is when action should be the heaviest of any that came before.  This is why those that love a great story game knew there was something wrong right away. 

In storytelling, there's a mantra you will hear repeated until you finally get it-show don't tell.  And nowhere is that more important than at the end, before the epilog.  In fights between good and evil, there needs to be an end fight.  It's actually why games have boss fights at the end-minor bosses to end levels and big bad bosses to end the game.  But you can also have big fights that are not involving weapons-Babylon 5 did it and a lot of what they had at the end with chaos and order, was what was used in ME3 at the end, but B5 did it right.  It was still a confrontation between the protagonists and the antagonists.  Even though they weren't smashing each other's heads in they were fighting.  ME3 needed a confrontation and not agreement at the very end.

[3DandBeyond]

Snypy wrote...

Ozida wrote...

Snypy wrote...

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

I actually agree. For the only living Prothean, Javik was boring (not in terms of his dialogues, but in terms of his story and impact on the plot). Even the dialogue with Hanar on Citadel... I mean, imaging meeting who you think would be a God one day. It would've been huge! Probably would be all around the news too… And instead they chatted for a bit and said good-byes. Yeah, that's show how much Hanars believe in Protheans. /*sarcasm*

However, I disagree with the fact that BW didn't cut parts of ME3 to sell it later. Leviathan by the look of it is quit critical to the story (I’ve only Youtubed it, but it gives some sense). Would it help with the concept behind the endings? Yeah, most likely. Getting it now is no real sense, to be honest. Also, this is kind of speculative, but someone has posted that Omega files can be found on original disc. If this is true, how is it not cutting pieces to sell them after?

Well, it all comes down to what you consider to be a complete game. For me, personally, ME3 is complete even without paid DLC. After all, the story of the trilogy isn't so much about understanding the Reapers as it is about defeating them. Vigil says it itself on Ilos.

There are some files for Omega in the Leviathan DLC, but I haven't read anything about the files being on the original disc. Besides, people post fake stuff all the time. It's kind of hard to believe anything on the Internet these days without a proof.

Finally, what point would there be in creating additional content, which is unwanted and uninteresting?

The only problem with that, about defeating the reapers vs. understanding them is that understanding them is exactly what the ending is geared toward.  It's one of the biggest things wrong with it.  I never felt while playing the game that I ever needed to understand them, but if I did, it wasn't about trying to fix their problem.  It was about getting rid of the galaxy's problem which was them.  Two separate goals.  The insertion of the kid is all about understanding the motivation or lack thereof of the reapers-his motivation and his creator's motivation.  The choices are not about defeating the reapers-they are about solving a problem.  The problem that has no comparable example in the galaxy at this time.  A problem that Shepard at least would never see as inevitable.  I have theories as to how it could be found to be so, but it would be a very limited problem-and what the kid most likely was meant to solve in the first place.  The other thing is related to why destroy doesn't really solve the problem either.  The leviathans are idiots when it comes to creating tech/synthetics.  They'd still exist and would create more idiotic tech.

However, the issue of defeating the reapers is uncertain in 2 out of 3 endings.  And, I'd even assert that with the 3rd choice, it is so as well.

The first thing is, in 2 of the endings, the reapers still exist.  In control, we have no idea what Shepard has become and since his/her thoughts and memories are all that were uploaded into some AI framework, Shepard is certainly no longer Shepard and may exist within the same flawed framework that allowed for the creation of the reapers in the first place.  In synthesis, I've seen a lot of theories put forth.  If I go with one common one, that people's personalities are not changed within it then the reapers will still kill.  Should some synthesized person develop new organic life, the kid (who is not necessarily gone) and the reapers would have to deal with that, if you believe that is their reason for being.

I've stated my theory here before, but I do think it makes some sense.  It's all head canon, but it is just my way of saying that they opened a pandora's box when they decided not to truly finish the game.

[Xellith]

Vigil in ME1 said that your survival depends on stopping the reapers, not in understanding them - I respectfully disagree with this. The best way to overcome a problem is to understand it/him/them. Anyhoo

The stargazer scene is supposedly set 10000 years in the future yes? This would mean that picking ANY of the 4 options results in "peace".

This to me more or less says that "overcoming the reapers as a problem unifies the galaxy" one way or another. Another part of me simply says "proof that we can all get along for 10000 years just goes to show that the 'problem' the reapers are complaining about does not in fact exist".

A malevolent group of beings who are famous for quotes such as "your worlds will become our laboratories" and "your leaders will beg to serve us" just makes me think that them being destroyed is the thing to do - regardless of the collateral damage.

Still - the ending is silly.

[sdinc009]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Good words that due to a bad game ending, I basically wish to never hear again:
Speculation
Art
Integrity
Balance
Canon
Canon
Canon
Choices
Conflict
Logic
Ascension
Harvest
Reapers
Impossible
Imagination
Reunion
Torso

Ok, I fully expect to hear these words in other usages, but this game and its association with them, has made them far less desirable for me and yet some of them are damn fine words. I will keep repeating 3 words however that have never lost their luster because they are perhaps the finest things these games had to offer as themes. It is just awful that they were not given more attention at the end.

Unity, diversity, and redemption. There may be more things, well in fact there was one other thing these games really were about-love. Yeah, that's cheesy, well we could all use a little bit of it today, cheesiness and love. Why would Shepard endure all of that stuff if not for love? Some kind of love, for friends or an LI, or just people in general. I think some people are so jaded that they can't wish for better things at the end. And that's ok for them. But, for me, no way. I'll never be that jaded.

Forgot 1:

Clarify

Everytime I hear that word it makes want to headbutt the nearest wall

[3DandBeyond]

To paraphrase some awesome words spoken by an truly great actor through what could have been a great character who became something far less, "Mass Effect, I wish you could see it as I do, Bioware. It's so...perfect." Well, or it would be if it got back to recognizing certain themes.

[Applepie_Svk]

Snypy wrote...


ME3 isn't a cake. You can't just cut content out of it and sell it separately. The game would never work. Perhaps the Prothean appeared as the Catalyst in the original script, but so did many other things which didn't make it into the final game.

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

And yet they already did it, From Ashes information went on the internet since december or january - since then we already knew there will be Prothean and also after release lot of guys found some unfinished content on CDs. 

For example there was lot of talk about Arian and Omega, but none thought it won´t be in game since day 1 - yet we could find in files that they are planning to release Omega later as DLC or the Leviathan which was also involved in files and also few more locations on Citadel...

Worst mistake which they did, was that they left unfinished content on discs - curiousity is natural and it gave us insight into future DLCs and their intentions, which are unfinished product.and making money...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[Snypy]

Xellith wrote...

Vigil in ME1 said that your survival depends on stopping the reapers, not in understanding them - I respectfully disagree with this. The best way to overcome a problem is to understand it/him/them. Anyhoo

The stargazer scene is supposedly set 10000 years in the future yes? This would mean that picking ANY of the 4 options results in "peace".

This to me more or less says that "overcoming the reapers as a problem unifies the galaxy" one way or another. Another part of me simply says "proof that we can all get along for 10000 years just goes to show that the 'problem' the reapers are complaining about does not in fact exist".

A malevolent group of beings who are famous for quotes such as "your worlds will become our laboratories" and "your leaders will beg to serve us" just makes me think that them being destroyed is the thing to do - regardless of the collateral damage.

Still - the ending is silly.

For what we know, the final scene could be 49,997 years into the future. Anyway, the Stargazer doesn't say that Shepard's actions resulted in everlasting peace. Perhaps there was another war or event which truly united the galaxy.

[Fiannawolf]

If that DLC list is even half truth....oh deaaaar......Save me Superman!

[Snypy]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Snypy wrote...


ME3 isn't a cake. You can't just cut content out of it and sell it separately. The game would never work. Perhaps the Prothean appeared as the Catalyst in the original script, but so did many other things which didn't make it into the final game.

And of course BioWare chose Javik, because the producers knew he would sell better than, say, James. However, the game is complete even without him. I don't think that the Prothean adds any significant value to the game for ordinary players. I barely took him with me on missions in my first playthrough, and I didn't miss out on anything really important.

And yet they already did it, From Ashes information went on the internet since december or january - since then we already knew there will be Prothean and also after release lot of guys found some unfinished content on CDs. 

For example there was lot of talk about Arian and Omega, but none thought it won´t be in game since day 1 - yet we could find in files that they are planning to release Omega later as DLC or the Leviathan which was also involved in files and also few more locations on Citadel...

Worst mistake which they did, was that they left unfinished content on discs - curiousity is natural and it gave us insight into future DLCs and their intentions, which are unfinished product.and making money...

I suppose I should clarify my previous comment. Many people think that BioWare developed ME3, and then some bean counter figured that Javik is the character/squadmate who would sell very well and therefore decided that the Prothean should be cut from main game and offered separately. But that certainly didn't happen. Anyone with a basic knowledge of programming knows that it's very tricky to create a complicated program and then cut something out of it. If BioWare did that, ME3 developers would probably spend as much time fixing the game as it would take them to create the DLC from scrach.

If you search ME3 general discussion forum for: "BioWare you can't justify Day One DLC" (or something like that), you'll find a 30 or 40 pages long thread where the reasoning behind the Day One DLC is thoroughly explained.

Modifié par Snypy, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:08 .

[3DandBeyond]

Snypy wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Vigil in ME1 said that your survival depends on stopping the reapers, not in understanding them - I respectfully disagree with this. The best way to overcome a problem is to understand it/him/them. Anyhoo

The stargazer scene is supposedly set 10000 years in the future yes? This would mean that picking ANY of the 4 options results in "peace".

This to me more or less says that "overcoming the reapers as a problem unifies the galaxy" one way or another. Another part of me simply says "proof that we can all get along for 10000 years just goes to show that the 'problem' the reapers are complaining about does not in fact exist".

A malevolent group of beings who are famous for quotes such as "your worlds will become our laboratories" and "your leaders will beg to serve us" just makes me think that them being destroyed is the thing to do - regardless of the collateral damage.

Still - the ending is silly.

For what we know, the final scene could be 49,997 years into the future. Anyway, the Stargazer doesn't say that Shepard's actions resulted in everlasting peace. Perhaps there was another war or event which truly united the galaxy.

I think part of the problem is Bioware released the Final Hours app and there was also a text dump.  The app said a lot of things, that they pointed out as examples.  One was the destruction of the galaxy-backed up by statements by Mac Walters.  Then, the text dump said the star gazer took place 10k years in the future.  And the star gazer said there might be such things as billions of people living on what might be billions of stars out there, that indicated that galactic dark ages might last at least 10k years.  However, when the EC was announced Walters and Hudson claimed to have no idea where fans got the idea the galaxy would be destroyed so we got the ending narration and cutscenes of everyone jumping for joy at easy to fixed relays.

The problem is we have no idea how much they still considered to be real, unreal, and surreal, or just plain symbolic.  I can make a good case for the whole darn thing being about abortion and end of life choices, who controls your body and makes such decisions for you.  I can also make a good case for the whole darn thing being about current events of Afghanistan and Iraq and even some misunderstandings of events in the Middle East.  But, I could just as easily make a good case for someone taking far too literally the musings of scientists, astrophysicists and physicists over cautionary tales of the future.  Someone got it all wrong, because these people often consider worst case scenarios in sterile environments, that either use the extremes of human nature or rule it out altogether.  Or they tried to apply the mistakes or abuse of religion or religious fanaticism (no matter the religion) that asserts that a deity determines a fated future and that anyone that just goes along with this rationalization for certain acts is doomed to fail. 

What I mean is the endings say we are doomed unless outside intervention changes the way forward.  We are helpless or we see ourselves that way.  We take no responsibility for the things we do so we will constantly repeat the same mistakes and they will get ever bigger, ever more horrific, because we won't ever think before we act.

It's like someone tried way too hard to make this about the future that we are forging now.  It says certain inevitabilities exist because we won't use our brains and act before it's too late to change things.  We can't win with refuse because we didn't prepare.  And in that case, the best we can hope for is that someone else will learn from our stupidity.

In the game, the crucible is incomplete, not intact.  We didn't do something we needed to do.  And Liara tells a future cycle, who knows when that is, where we went wrong.  Ok, Liara, maybe it would have been helpful to tell us that at the time.  After all, she's the one that found that crucible plans in the first place.  The only thing that makes sense about that time capsule is that the information Liara gives the next cycle is to prepare for the reapers coming.  She couldn't know in time what was missing from the crucible to be able to tell them that, so it's about preparing beforehand.

[3DandBeyond]

Snypy wrote...


I suppose I should clarify my previous comment. Many people think that BioWare developed ME3, and then some bean counter figured that Javik is a character/squadmate who would sell very well and therefore decided that the Prothean should be cut from main game and offered separately. But that certainly didn't happen. Anyone with a basic knowledge of programming knows that it's very tricky to create a complicated program and then cut something out of it. If BioWare did that, ME3 developers would probably spend as much time fixing the game as it would take them to create the DLC from scrach.

If you search ME3 general discussion forum for: "BioWare you can't justify Day One DLC" (or something like that), you'll find a 30 or 40 pages long thread where the reasoning behind the Day One DLC is thoroughly explained.

I don't disagree with them doing anything they want.  Eventually, consumers decide how much of this they are willing to stomach.  However, there was a video or interview somewhere with the powers that be (please forgive the vagueness since I read so much on all this, I am sure it was an EA exec), where they stated that day one DLC was to get that extra bit of money out of people.  That people would buy day one DLC in droves.  It is similar to the video that came out explaining how to milk people with micro-transactions.  It's no coincidence in MP that the cheapest pack is 5,000 credits and if you beat one bronze mission, you might get enough to buy 2 with credits.  It's also no mistake that most of the stuff is consumable so you have to keep "buying" to replenish these items.  Day one DLC was created specifically for the same reason and they have people that examine all of this. 

It's the same as going into a grocery store and buying Deli Meat and being asked if you want cheese with it, and turning around and seeing a table full of bakery bread to buy, along with a display with premium condiments nearby.  It's suggestive selling.  Go into a store to buy house paint and they will try to sell paint brushes and so on.  Some of the stuff is what you will need.  Other things are extras that have eye appeal or emotional appeal.  Now, there's nothing technically wrong with any of this, but it's a little less clear when it comes to games and books and things.

I can't disagree with paying for Day One DLC, because I'm almost begging to be allowed to pay for an ending I'd like.  See, both of these things appeal to completionists.  I buy a game and if I like it, I want to extend the experience and I want all the eye candy I can get.  I actually don't feel that way right now about ME3.  If I did, I'd have the Firepower pack, but I couldn't care less about it.  I have Leviathan because my nephew bought it on my xbox.  In a way, Day One DLC is like blind pre-ordering.  It's there to get gamers like me to buy without thinking or knowing what they're getting and hype was used extensively here as well to push the pre-ordering.  I'm awake now.  Pre-orders are pretty much out of the question.  Day One DLC, never again.

[Justin2k]

Reading the whole Mass Effect was originally published by MS but EA published 2 and 3 has really opened my eyes.

The whole thing is quite obvious. Microsoft let Bioware make Mass Effect the way they wanted to, which is similar to the way their older games were. EA is not like that. Their bottom line is profit and they don't care if the game is crap as long as it's ready to go and  has plenty of DLC to continue making money.

It's quite telling the directors of the company quit after ME3. They will never publicly say it, but its obvious they know this game sold out the very reason why they made games in the first place, which they have publicly stated many times.

Unfortunately until Bioware leaves EA, all of their games are going to be streamlined and they're going to get panned. Once you join the most hated company in America, theres not much of a way back.

Bioware made great RPGs because their directors liked great RPGs.
Bioware now make money sinks because EA like money

Modifié par Justin2k, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[Benchpress610]

sdinc009 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Good words that due to a bad game ending, I basically wish to never hear again:
Speculation
Art
Integrity
Balance
Canon
Canon
Canon
Choices
Conflict
Logic
Ascension
Harvest
Reapers
Impossible
Imagination
Reunion
Torso

Ok, I fully expect to hear these words in other usages, but this game and its association with them, has made them far less desirable for me and yet some of them are damn fine words. I will keep repeating 3 words however that have never lost their luster because they are perhaps the finest things these games had to offer as themes. It is just awful that they were not given more attention at the end.

Unity, diversity, and redemption. There may be more things, well in fact there was one other thing these games really were about-love. Yeah, that's cheesy, well we could all use a little bit of it today, cheesiness and love. Why would Shepard endure all of that stuff if not for love? Some kind of love, for friends or an LI, or just people in general. I think some people are so jaded that they can't wish for better things at the end. And that's ok for them. But, for me, no way. I'll never be that jaded.

Forgot 1:

Clarify

Everytime I hear that word it makes want to headbutt the nearest wall

How'bout "closure"? 

[CaIIisto]

Benchpress610 wrote...
How'bout "closure"? 

Closure:



Yep. Closure. Apparently.....

Modifié par Bester76, 27 septembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[Snypy]

Bester76 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
How'bout "closure"? 

Closure:



Yep. Closure. Apparently.....

If this picture was correct, then this part of the ending must be interpreted differently. A body cannot take a breath without a head. It's physiologically impossible. And BioWare knew fans would scrutinize this particular scene very thoroughly.

Modifié par Snypy, 27 septembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[Iakus]

Bester76 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
How'bout "closure"? 

Closure:



Yep. Closure. Apparently.....

Remember how Bioware bent over backwards telling us the Normandy Crash wasn't a bad thing, how eEC shows us the ship being repaired and them taking off again?

Yeah, why couldn't we get closure like that for Shepard? 

[CaIIisto]

Snypy wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
How'bout "closure"? 

Closure:

<snip>

Yep. Closure. Apparently.....

If this picture was correct, then this part of the ending must be interpreted differently. A body cannot take a breath without a head. It's physiologically impossible. And BioWare knew fans would scrutinize this particular scene very thoroughly.

No feet either. 

ME4 - Shepard goes Ironside and solves crimes from his wheelchair.