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One Last Plea - Do the Right Thing


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#5201
AresKeith

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

funny how he didn't really answer the question


-snip-

I am curious as to when that time will be that you accept that what Chris said turning out to be true. How far down the road do you draw your line in the sand?


I'll say this one more time from awhile back, you do not speak or work for Bioware so who don't know what they are really planning just like us with their DLCs. Your so arrogant about things that you think everything you say comes from Bioware

Plus, Chris himself said things like the IT is a valid possibility for the end of the game. So whats really the problem with an add-on to the current endings or the PT, when something like the IT does much more?


Now who is avoiding the question? =]


while you ignored the response, here's the answer to your question I'll wait till the announcement of the next ME game

Modifié par AresKeith, 28 septembre 2012 - 08:33 .


#5202
N7 Lisbeth

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The point is we still have the right to ask Bioware to re-consider things and there's still the possibility that they will.


So if Chris came in here and said once again the current endings are the definitive and final endings, what then?

The first part is right that you have the option of asking for anything you want but I question the second part.


They take a stance, they want something to go away, they say something to try to make that happen. If it doesn't go away, they reassess. As long as they're making DLC/have a team on hand that can affect game changes, then there's hope. As soon as that team is reallocated elsewhere, in full, then it's over. But not until then.

"There will be no further changes to the endings" is a placating gesture, nothing more. Those endings can change, he just doesn't want to do it yet. Sure, that will take some convincing, but that's what threads like these are for -- reminding people like Chris that we're still not happy, that the franchise is in trouble because of his refusal/denial of reality.

Wishing the customers don't exist doesn't make it so. Likewise, his wishing the EC ending is successful won't make it successful. It is not successful, it's frelled. It has hurt ME3 sales, has hurt and will continue to increasingly hurt DLC sales, and will increasingly hurt any possibility of ME4 sales.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 08:35 .


#5203
Dragoonlordz

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AresKeith wrote...

while you ignored the response, here's the answer to your question I'll wait till the announcement of the next ME game


Chris and multiple Bioware employees said what we have now is the definitive endings, that is what I base my comment on in regards to your question now that you finally answered mine.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 septembre 2012 - 08:35 .


#5204
Chris Priestly

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Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.



:devil:

#5205
AresKeith

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

while you ignored the response, here's the answer to your question I'll wait till the announcement of the next ME game


Chris and multiple Bioware employees said what we have now is the definitive endings, that is what I base my comment on in regards to your question now that you finally answered mine.


and we've said countless times that the point of this thread isn't to change the endings that are already there

#5206
N7 Lisbeth

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.



:devil:


Thanks for stepping in for a moment, Chris. It's nice to know that you browse unpopular topics and, on occasion, address them directly.

I know I, and all of my friends, will continue hoping that someone up there changes their minds and does add new or altered endings to properly address closure, especially since you've stated that Shepard's story is done and will not be revisited in ME4. The treatment of Shepard and the themes in Mass Effect in EC's endings is a travesty beyond words, and I don't think it was intentional. Someone up there just underestimated how it would affect everyone or the depth to which we interpret things. (Let me be clear: we understand what was said and intended just fine. But we're looking at the big picture, not the little one, and we didn't like what we saw.) Maybe they thought a cliffhanger was okay because they'd take up the slack with a sequel. That is not the case, as you've confirmed previously. (I.e., no sequel, no more Shepard in ME4.)

Hopefully the next round of DLC sales convinces you to re-assess the situation.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:06 .


#5207
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Edit: Post removed. :devil:

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .


#5208
CaIIisto

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Well, as I said, I'll stick it out until the DLC wraps, and make a call when the details for ME4 are announced.

#5209
AresKeith

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Bester76 wrote...

Well, as I said, I'll stick it out until the DLC wraps, and make a call when the details for ME4 are announced.


he did say the DLC may have effects on the endings, which was also part of the OP and a few of our suggestions

#5210
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.



:devil:


I've given up on ending changes because they would have happened by June. I suspect something big is in the works. I'm looking back at Final Hours for clues. I'm looking at DLC and in the story for clues. We can continue to speculate about the next Mass Effect game, right? :innocent:

#5211
N7 Lisbeth

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Bester76 wrote...

Well, as I said, I'll stick it out until the DLC wraps, and make a call when the details for ME4 are announced.


Do they ever announce details of the stories? I don't recall that ever happening through official channels, but then I do purposefully shut out spoilers so maybe I just missed them. The only things I remember ever being said prior to each game's release consisted of screenshots, some demos (usually at 'Cons or Expos), and pre-release marketing/cinematic trailers.

All we know so far is that ME4 are some things that may or may not change but consist of the following: not a sequel, and no more Shepard. That means nothing in ME4 affects ME3's endings or the state of the franchise. If anything, it further compounds the problem because that means ME4 is rendered meaningless by ME3's ending which takes place after the events of ME4.

That causes me concern and means I won't buy it. Love interest? Compelling story? Neat character? Doesn't matter, ME3 endings, kaboom, all rendered irrelevant.

#5212
N7 Lisbeth

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By the way, Bester76, I like the name -- I'm assuming it's an intentional nod to Babylon5?

#5213
Dragoonlordz

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Edit: No fighting here. :devil:

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:20 .


#5214
CaIIisto

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AresKeith wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Well, as I said, I'll stick it out until the DLC wraps, and make a call when the details for ME4 are announced.


he did say the DLC may have effects on the endings, which was also part of the OP and a few of our suggestions


True, but I doubt that will impact much on the closure issue. 

I can live with the 'destroy' ending, but I get no sense of closure from it, at least not for the character I've been directing for the past 5 years.

As much as ME3 is the end of the Reaper story, we're also told that it's the end of Shepard's arc. To have the character's final scene the way it is in 'destroy', and left to head canon, no.  It leaves me with absolutely zero interest in becoming emotionally invested in any further games as what's the point.

#5215
CaIIisto

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N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Do they ever announce details of the stories? I don't recall that ever happening through official channels, but then I do purposefully shut out spoilers so maybe I just missed them. The only things I remember ever being said prior to each game's release consisted of screenshots, some demos (usually at 'Cons or Expos), and pre-release marketing/cinematic trailers.

All we know so far is that ME4 are some things that may or may not change but consist of the following: not a sequel, and no more Shepard. That means nothing in ME4 affects ME3's endings or the state of the franchise. If anything, it further compounds the problem because that means ME4 is rendered meaningless by ME3's ending which takes place after the events of ME4.

That causes me concern and means I won't buy it. Love interest? Compelling story? Neat character? Doesn't matter, ME3 endings, kaboom, all rendered irrelevant.


Well no, that's true. My understanding at the moment is also that ME4 will be a new story, with a new protagonist. If and when that's confirmed then that'll be me checking out. If they can't finish this trilogy, and character, properly, then I have little interest in getting into a new story. What's the point?

The name - yeah, Alfred - both the B5 character, and by extension the author. :)

#5216
AresKeith

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Bester76 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Well, as I said, I'll stick it out until the DLC wraps, and make a call when the details for ME4 are announced.


he did say the DLC may have effects on the endings, which was also part of the OP and a few of our suggestions


True, but I doubt that will impact much on the closure issue. 

I can live with the 'destroy' ending, but I get no sense of closure from it, at least not for the character I've been directing for the past 5 years.

As much as ME3 is the end of the Reaper story, we're also told that it's the end of Shepard's arc. To have the character's final scene the way it is in 'destroy', and left to head canon, no.  It leaves me with absolutely zero interest in becoming emotionally invested in any further games as what's the point.


true, but you never know. Like I said, they only people who truly know is Bioware

#5217
Redbelle

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Now I want you guys to put on your tinfoil hats. Got them secured? Good. We're taking a trip down tinfoil hat alley. I'm certifiable today, most days actually, but today more than most. See, we've been looking at Final Hours again, and I'm wondering if this whole ending has been a misdirection. Something is really missing. The ending feels really incomplete. Conspiracy time.

If you look at Final Hours, you'll see Synthesis specifically as "Brave New World" and that's not a happy place if you read the book. You'll also notice in the EC that the people aren't cheering like they are in Destroy or Control. Control is a become a reaper to take control of them. We were supposed to feel empty. First Matrix ending. Shepard Alive is specifically underlined. If you reverse the arrows in the diagram everything makes a lot more sense. It's a misdirect.

Every single DLC we will see for ME3 will scare us into thinking Synthesis or Control are the best choices, and that Destroy is by far the worst when it is the best.

What I think is planned and why they are not changing things is that while we won't be playing Shepard in ME4, we will be rescuing Shepard in ME4. There is no legend save for Control or Synthesis. Shepard died in those endings. Shepard could die in Destroy. That breath could be the final one (figuratively) if our ME4 mission fails. Here's what I think our mission is.

Shepard in Destroy ending has her mind locked inside of the AI Construct and is in a coma battling for her sanity. We have to go into the AI and find Shepard and get her out, then destroy the AI. This is not unprecedented in the series. We did go into the Geth Consensus. This will be more detailed. Hudson obviously is a Wachowskis fan. So I think this will be our first mission. I think we'll be taking Spc. Traynor with us. We need to get Shepard out because of the Leviathans.

This is why I think they're not changing the endings. You can take off your tinfoil hats now.


Personally I am hoping for new protaganist in ME4 with no companions or characters from ME3 present. A fresh start a new characters story not Shepards anymore. I consider Shepards story over or will be once final DLC is done with for ME3 and we had an entire 3 games with him. Time for someone new.


So many potential possibilities. But wait, any continuation of ME should play to it's strengths right? And like em or loath em the characters of Mass Effect are a strength. So while we can have someone new, that person needs to be alot like Shepard in many respects. i.e. Blank canvas who goes forward to be painted in any way we the players desire. The last thing I want to see is a character like the one from Onimisha 4. Gone was Jubei from 1 2 and 3, the silky smooth samurai engine of destruction. And in his place a blonde haired beach bum whose character design keeps cropping up because it's popular in Japan. At least with the ability to customise our Shepards we'll avoid that pitfall.

New companions sounds good, but to completely breakaway from them all would not play to the strength of their characters. Tali, Liara and Garrus should certainly come back as those 3 are essentially the core of the squads in ME1 2 and 3.......... ok Liara was AWOL in 2 till LOTSB but she's still a unique character, and to good to toss out on a whim for all new characters.

Which makes what I say next a little contradictory. We need to focus less on our established characters and focus more on the new ones. Vega in ME3 was a riot in the beginning. Trigger happy, (he had his gun pointed at Liara till Shep slapped him down), Sucidal with delusions of invunerabilty, (ramming a shuttle into the other and nearly fragging the commander in the process), and with a bent outlook on respecting the chain of command, (name one other character in ME who challenged Shep to box and slugged him/her good and hard). Vega was pretty good right up to that point. But from then he just disappeared into he background of established characters who have been present since ME 1 and 2. He's a decent character. He just doesn't have the same emotional connections to the players. He needed more time to shine.

And related to the issue of characterisation. The dialogue............. Who noticed that, unlike ME1 and 2. When you got to the end of a dialogue wheel conversation you couldn't re-enter into it. Instead you were given a stock reply to be repeated every time you spoke to the character. It's a little gripe to be sure. But when I click on a character I'm used to them dropping everything to turn and focus on me. It was a small gesture that made you feel like you could interact meaningfully by making them stop and face you by initiating conversation. A little thing like this, coupled with the loss of ME1's free roaming Mako and sprawling level designs designed to be traversed with a Mako or Hammerhead leads me to conclude that ME has been getting better by cutting out it's soul. ME has been losing bit's of itself along the way. I've ignored it as these issues are hiccups and not game breakers. But if they are seriously considering ME4 then I want them to stop cutting and stream lining and give us a ME game experience that draws from each installment and delivers it, polished, buffed and tied off with a bow.

I want my Mako back. I want my squad to always go into dialogue wheel mode and face me when I click on them. Not stand with their back to me saying the same thing over and over again..........(not convinced? In ME1 you could have a conversation with Shep and Wrex that went something like this........ 'Wrex'......'Shepard'........'Wrex'......'Shepard'........'Wrex'......'Shepard'.......        <continue till satisfied>)
I want new characters that I won't ignore if placed next to established characters I already love to bring along. And I want to see ME embrace it's ME1 origin rediscover massive sprawling level designs that don't funnel me along a set path.

Rant over. I'm laying off the coffee for a bit.

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:08 .


#5218
Mr.BlazenGlazen

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.



:devil:


The thing is Chris, I'm not hoping for a new ending. The format of said endings are okay.

But what is troubling me is that there are these little, mniscule things that you folks at bioware can do to make the endings more tolerable for people. It doesn't even have to be through DLC, you can add them in patches for all I care. But for some reason you folks at bioware are refusing to do even that. I mean what's the deal? Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

#5219
CaIIisto

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AresKeith wrote...
true, but you never know. Like I said, they only people who truly know is Bioware


Oh don't get me wrong, despite my general level of 'negativity', I adore the franchise, so I'll continue to hold out hope until the very last scrap is torn away. 

The only reason I'm still here is because ME1 and ME2 built up such great levels of goodwill, that haven't been completely eroded away just yet. :)

#5220
Redbelle

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.



:devil:


<Redbelle's not feeling the love>

#5221
AresKeith

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Bester76 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
true, but you never know. Like I said, they only people who truly know is Bioware


Oh don't get me wrong, despite my general level of 'negativity', I adore the franchise, so I'll continue to hold out hope until the very last scrap is torn away. 

The only reason I'm still here is because ME1 and ME2 built up such great levels of goodwill, that haven't been completely eroded away just yet. :)


as do all of us here, but people always assume they just because we don't like the ending or ME3 as a whole we hate the whole franchise and Bioware Posted Image

#5222
Rafficus III

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Chris Priestly wrote...

It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change



So we have a chance after all!

#5223
N7 Lisbeth

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hornedfrog87 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change



So we have a chance after all!


We always did. I have no idea why people assume everything is set in stone. Everything is malleable and things do change. Or at least they can as long as there's a team that can work on it. Some of them have already been reallocated elsewhere (DA3), but there is still a capable team working on ME3's DLCs.

I intend to show them my opinion of the endings with my money. No more DLCs or Bioware games until they change ME3's endings.

#5224
Chris Priestly

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hornedfrog87 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change



So we have a chance after all!


Sure. It only took 6 years for Playstation players to get ME1.



:devil:

#5225
futurepixels

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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 


This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.