6432 réponses à ce sujet

[CaIIisto]

AresKeith wrote...

as do all of us here, but people always assume they just because we don't like the ending or ME3 as a whole we hate the whole franchise and Bioware

I think the general assumption should be that anyone posting here is at least a fan of the franchise, otherwise why would they care enough to post. Granted you'll get trolls, just like every other social network, but they usually make themselves abundantly obvious pretty quickly. 

[Chris Priestly]

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

[futurepixels]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

But since the greatest number of players chose Destroy, that means many players saw the "ambiguous" breathe scene.  I put quotes around ambiguous, because Shepard lives in my mind, but remember this post from earlier today?:

Chris Priestly wrote...

Misleading title is misleading. Fixing that.

Shepard Living or Dying is up to the individual. There is no "official" live or die.


[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

[N7 Lisbeth]

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

The answer is "speculation," and I don't mean to connote mismanagement there. It's a wonderful idea. The problem is it has backfired, it has generated a proverbial hate machine instead of positive speculation -- and let's be clear, not unfairly. They had to know how the endings would affect players after that much emotional investiture.

ME3's endings will severely impact future sales, games and DLCs both. People have been tolerant until now because they hoped the endings would change by letting Bioware know their feelings -- that is not going to be the case. So it comes down to hitting them where it hurts, their pockets. Nobody wins this way, but it becomes the principle of the matter. I feel strongly about it so I do something about it. My friends don't mirror me, they feel the same way and all came to the same conclusion intend to do the same thing. It's not a threat at all, it's simply the way people react when they're mistreated.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:29 .

[CaIIisto]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

I don't necessarily think the problem is with the other endings, it's with destroy. The other three are definitive. Destroy is not. I really don't see why we couldn't have had one ending where Shepard definitively lives, especially if there are no consequences for future games.

[Iakus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

But the one "Shepard lives" ending/easter egg is very much open ended.  As open ended as the Normandy crash in the original ending.  And we all know what speculation that generated.  .

So, why the ambiguity here, in this one ending?  Why, as my sig points out, do dead Shepard get closure, but live ones get "implications"?

[Redbelle]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

The destroy ending is the primary culprit for this 'open ended ambiguity'. And raises a serious point. Why is a body with an N7 tag shown to be breathing at the end scene?

[Dragoonlordz]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

I think correct term would be left open to interpretation. It's the reason why I liked the original endings. The EC lucky for me seemed to be quite close to my interpretation which is why I liked that too. There was couple things different but nothing major vs what I assumed or imagined. However I very much agree with the statement there is no better definitive outcome for me than death of a character.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:31 .

[Chris Priestly]

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

But the one "Shepard lives" ending/easter egg is very much open ended.  As open ended as the Normandy crash in the original ending.  And we all know what speculation that generated.  .

So, why the ambiguity here, in this one ending?  Why, as my sig points out, do dead Shepard get closure, but live ones get "implications"?

" Are you not Speculating? Isn't this what you want? " lol

[futurepixels]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

And the fact that there are two interpretations of the fate of our hero is ambiguous.  You probably a smart guy and I don't need to tell you, but that is LITERALLY the definition of ambiguous.

Modifié par futurepixels, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Redbelle]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Why leave Shepard's story so open-ended and ambigious if you don't have any plans to follow up on it? 

This is a VERY good question, and Bioware should answer it, Chris.

I do not feel it is open ended. In most endings Shepard dies. Hard to be more definitive than death. I think people who cling to hope that there will be more see "open ended ambiguity" where it doesn't exist.

When ME2 was released it was toted a sucide mission that could not be survived. That was how the game was sold. Here is an unbeatable mission you won't come back from. Your move.

And boy were they right. Shepard could die. For real. The save game woudn't be carried forward and that Shepard woud be deceased.............. but then you could also prevent Shepard from dying. And anyone else. If ambiguity exists it is because previous entries in the franchise have given us a standard from which to judge followup entries. Which begs the question........... was the ending mission of ME3 as good as ME2?

[N7 Lisbeth]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

That's the very ambiguity they're talking about, Chris.

I take the fact that Shepard is completely absent from the Normandy, nobody returns for her (or him), and that she doesn't take part of or contribute towards the rebuilding of the galaxy makes it pretty clear there is only one interpretation, but if that's the case why include the last breath scene at all? Or if untrue, why not include Shepard in the afternath? That's the problem and the reason there's absolutely no closure. It's not just ambiguous, it's a non-sequitur.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:40 .

[Redbelle]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Here's the problem. We like certainty. Flip a coin. Heads or tails? Hold your hand over the coin. Keep it there. The outcome is uncertain. The hand has not been removed to observe the result.

Shepard has become something of a Schrodinger's cat. No definitive answer is available or forthcoming and so naturally ppl will continue to probe the question.

But this Cat is different. There are 3, now 4 containers to observe corresponding to the final choices we can make. We can ascertain the result from synthesis: Dead. Control: Dead but kinda still around. Destroy: ?, Reject: should be dead but hey. If Javik survived I can dream

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Thanks for replying to the question chris. Unfortunately I don't have much time to answer back properly to you. But if you are leaving it up to fan's interpretation, then it is ambiguous to an extent. 

Maybe we can pm each other when you have time?

[Th3 Bunman]

Bioware,please listen and actually hear what the fans are sayin'.

[Dragoonlordz]

Redbelle wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Here's the problem. We like certainty. Flip a coin. Heads or tails? Hold your hand over the coin. Keep it there. The outcome is uncertain. The hand has not been removed to observe the result.

Shepard has become something of a Schrodinger's cat. No definitive answer is available or forthcoming and so naturally ppl will continue to probe the question.

Some like everything explained completley and some do not. I do not as for example.

I used an example in the past, Shepards fate equals closure, him going on to having children equals closure, his children have children equals closure, this can continue on forever but amounts to the same result. All equal some form of closure at some level. The current level of closure is the right level of it for me.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 28 septembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[ShepnTali]

Dead Shepard is dead, live Shepard is either or. That's frustrating. The dead Shepards have their day in the sun with low ems.

[Seival]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

That's the very ambiguity they're talking about, Chris.

I take the fact that Shepard is completely absent from the Normandy, nobody returns for her (or him), and that she doesn't take part of or contribute towards the rebuilding of the galaxy makes it pretty clear there is only one interpretation, but if that's the case why include the last breath scene at all? Or if untrue, why not include Shepard in the afternath? That's the problem and the reason there's absolutely no closure. It's not just ambiguous, it's a non-sequitur.

"What does that all mean?" is a question for you, not for devs. Look for the answers by analizing what have you seen in game itself. One of the greatest things about the endings is that they force you to think. Like a great sci-fi book.

[CaIIisto]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Some like everything explained completley and some do not. I do not as for example.

Great.

Let's just cater for those that don't, and screw everyone else.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

That's the very ambiguity they're talking about, Chris.

I take the fact that Shepard is completely absent from the Normandy, nobody returns for her (or him), and that she doesn't take part of or contribute towards the rebuilding of the galaxy makes it pretty clear there is only one interpretation, but if that's the case why include the last breath scene at all? Or if untrue, why not include Shepard in the afternath? That's the problem and the reason there's absolutely no closure. It's not just ambiguous, it's a non-sequitur.

"What does that all mean?" is a question for you, not for devs. Look for the answers by analizing what have you seen in game itself. One of the greatest things about the endings is that they force you to think. Like a great sci-fi book.

and you completely mis-read the whole comment

[CaIIisto]

Seival wrote...

One of the greatest things about the endings is that they force you to think. Like a great sci-fi book.

Oh f*ck me, not this appeal to intelligence BS again......

[Redbelle]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Here's the problem. We like certainty. Flip a coin. Heads or tails? Hold your hand over the coin. Keep it there. The outcome is uncertain. The hand has not been removed to observe the result.

Shepard has become something of a Schrodinger's cat. No definitive answer is available or forthcoming and so naturally ppl will continue to probe the question.

Some like everything explained completley and some do not. I do not as for example.

But regardless of not wanting something explained the raw data should still provide clues as to the likelihood of certain outcomes. If that information had been available much of the debate surrounding those endings would have been internally directed at the forums of ppl arguing about what actually happened.

Instead the debate ended up being targeted at BW as the lack of substantially different outcomes and subsequent information to form an opinion basesd on player choice made ppl go............. "What"?

[Redbelle]

Bester76 wrote...

Seival wrote...

One of the greatest things about the endings is that they force you to think. Like a great sci-fi book.

Oh f*ck me, not this appeal to intelligence BS again......

Have you read Dune and if so what was the msg's the book attempted to deliver through it;s subject matter?

[CaIIisto]

Redbelle wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Seival wrote...

One of the greatest things about the endings is that they force you to think. Like a great sci-fi book.

Oh f*ck me, not this appeal to intelligence BS again......

Have you read Dune and if so what was the msg's the book attempted to deliver through it;s subject matter?

Giant worms are cool.