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[RedTail F22]

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

It's about balance.

An ending where it gives the proper amount of closure for the story while still leaving it open enough for people's imagination is incredibly well done in my opinion. ME3 didn't just miss the mark. they leaned way to much on leaving it to player imagination. And even that was done poorly. You had to get really creative to make a good ending based off the bits we were left with to imaginate from.

[Iakus]

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

[CaIIisto]

Davik Kang wrote...

Ah, trying to be clever.  How exactly would that make it personal, when every character in the book is written along a single timeline with no influence from the reader?  The ending to a book is not supposed to be an ending to your personal, interactive story about a character you've moulded through personal choice.

Awaiting smart-arsed reply #2.

Actually that's absolutely correct.

Instead, I'll rip out random pages and fill in the gaps myself. Lord of the Rings is going to be so much better now that I don't have to trek all the f*cking way to Mordor. Party time with the Elves in Rivendell instead. This is great. Thanks. 

Definitely preferable to this;

Modifié par Bester76, 29 septembre 2012 - 02:46 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Davik Kang wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Good point.

The next book I read, I'll be sure to rip out the last couple of pages so that I can imagine it for myself and make the read a bit more personal.

Ah, trying to be clever.  How exactly would that make it personal, when every character in the book is written along a single timeline with no influence from the reader?  The ending to a book is not supposed to be an ending to your personal, interactive story about a character you've moulded through personal choice.

Awaiting smart-arsed reply #2.

I would not waste much time with Bester. Not worth it, where he/she does not insult she instead leaves sarcasm in it's place. By the way I agree with your comment about closure little while back. It was a very logical and reasonable assessment.

[CaIIisto]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I would not waste much time with Bester. Not worth it, where he/she does not insult she instead leaves sarcasm in it's place. By the way I agree with your comment about closure little while back. It was a very logical and reasonable assessment.

I'm surprised that you have the time to spare, what with your blanket apologising on every other thread.....

[ShepnTali]

Some people prefer closure in SOME things. ME happens to be one of those things. No matter how many different ways they try and look at it, it doesn't sit well. This has nothing to do with how other stories might end, and it doesn't mean they would never enjoy any given story without closure.

[Dragoonlordz]

iakus wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

But Chris already said if you want him to live then he lives in that ending. If want him to die then he dies in that ending. They did not stop you believing is alive by having him left in the rubble, it merely means if you want him to live he just has to be found by anyone you feel like imagining find him. The way it was handled you can have it end the way you want, you have been given that freedom to do so.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

But Chris already said if you want him to live then he lives in that ending. If want him to die then he dies in that ending. They did not stop you believing is alive by having him left in the rubble, it merely means if you want him to live he just has to be found by anyone you feel like imagining find him. The way it was handled you can have it end the way you want, you have been given that freedom to do so.

And we already said thats ambigious and its not a good way to give closure to an ending where Shepard supposedly lived

[Xellith]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

But Chris already said if you want him to live then he lives in that ending. If want him to die then he dies in that ending. They did not stop you believing is alive by having him left in the rubble, it merely means if you want him to live he just has to be found by anyone you feel like imagining find him. The way it was handled you can have it end the way you want, you have been given that freedom to do so.

And we already said thats ambigious and its not a good way to give closure to an ending where Shepard supposedly lived

Make the ending up?  Its called Fan-Fiction.

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

But Chris already said if you want him to live then he lives in that ending. If want him to die then he dies in that ending. They did not stop you believing is alive by having him left in the rubble, it merely means if you want him to live he just has to be found by anyone you feel like imagining find him. The way it was handled you can have it end the way you want, you have been given that freedom to do so.

And we already said thats ambigious and its not a good way to give closure to an ending where Shepard supposedly lived

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Lunch Box1912]

DirtyMouthSally wrote...

I'm curious.  Has Hitler chimed in about the Leviathan dlc? I recall some youtube vids of him ranting about the ME3 ending, and maybe the extended cut too, but I haven't seen anything regarding Levathan.  Anyone have a link? Maybe he quit the series?

 That is hilarious I watched that a while ago… pretty much sums up how I felt.

www.youtube.com/watch

Also this too

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:08 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Very insightful...!  

Seriously though, the execution (and likely inclusion to begin with) of the breath scene was really not well thought out. It's the very definition of ambigious, and a slap in the face of many people who expected closure for the character they spent so much time with. As for myself, nobody has yet given me a convincing explanation how Shepard could've survived, so I kinda consider him dead, even with the breath scene. But I don't know, and that just sucks. Lack of closure bothered me with Hawke, but it really pisses me of now with Shepard. It was his damn story we played, we should know wether he is alive or dead at the end...

In hindsight I should probably thank you for making it impossible to even get the scene on my first playthrough. ****ty behaviour all in all, but at least it was clear Shep died in every scenario... 

[Davik Kang]

RedTail F22 wrote...

It's about balance. 

An ending where it gives the proper amount of closure for the story while still leaving it open enough for people's imagination is incredibly well done in my opinion. ME3 didn't just miss the mark. they leaned way to much on leaving it to player imagination. And even that was done poorly. You had to get really creative to make a good ending based off the bits we were left with to imaginate from.

Well this comes down to opinion really.  For me, the ending was really good.  And there was plenty of stuff in the game and endgame, not just to use for speculation, but to actually understand as a proper conclusion.  But as it comes down to opinion we can't really agree on this one.

Bester76 wrote...

Actually that's absolutely correct.

Instead, I'll rip out random pages and fill in the gaps myself. Lord of the Rings is going to be so much better now that I don't have to trek all the f*cking way to Mordor. Party time with the Elves in Rivendell instead. This is great. Thanks. 

Ahahah.  It is absolutely hilarious that you would make this point while talking about an interactive videogame.  A videogame who's USP was forging a personal story based on your own choices.  Kudos, good sir.  It's been fun.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

so the endings where Shepard is dead gets closure, but the one where he can live gets no closure but for us to use our imagination instead of getting what we paid for. That's not a valid way to end a story, its lazy

Modifié par AresKeith, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[Xellith]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

so the endings where Shepard is dead gets closure, but the one where he can live gets no closure but for us to use our imagination instead of getting what we paid for. That's not a valid way to end a story.

I believe thats called a "d**k move".

[Davik Kang]

Xellith wrote...

Make the ending up?  Its called Fan-Fiction.

I really gotta sleep but come on.  Fan fiction?  In the end, Shepard dies.  If you did Destroy and had a strong enough army, she/he lives.  What do you want?  Shepard to pick up a bayonetta-modded rifle and charge the Reaper?  A medal ceremony where all the Normandy crew get big spangly gold medals, and the fallen get honourary purple hearts?  Why would this make the ending better?

And what's more - those of you who want closure, how about you amke a closure thread and see what each of you would like the ending to have been.  $20 says you will all want different things that suit your own Shepard's character and your own tailor-made experiences.  And the only way you can all get this is by having the ending that is already there.

Peace to all.  I sleep.

[CaIIisto]

Davik Kang wrote...

Ahahah.  It is absolutely hilarious that you would make this point while talking about an interactive videogame.  A videogame who's USP was forging a personal story based on your own choices.  Kudos, good sir.  It's been fun.

Likewise, thanks for playing. 

Speaking of interactive;

"Interactive storytelling - Experience the beginning, middle and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."

I'm glad that I killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 - otherwise she'd have turned up in ME3. Oh....

I'm glad that I chose Anderson to be the Human representative on the Council, otherwise it might have been Udina in ME3. Oh....

Good job I blew up the Collector base, wouldn't want Cerberus getting their hands on that Human Reaper. Oh.....

[Epique Phael767]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

so the endings where Shepard is dead gets closure, but the one where he can live gets no closure but for us to use our imagination instead of getting what we paid for. That's not a valid way to end a story, its lazy

All of the ending is lazy, especially the deus ex machina. Especially the deus ex machina.

[TheRealJayDee]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

so the endings where Shepard is dead gets closure, but the one where he can live gets no closure but for us to use our imagination instead of getting what we paid for. That's not a valid way to end a story.

Dude, you should have gotten the hint by now that the ending you chose simply wasn't the right one. Choose wisely next time and you get all the closure you can hope for. 

[AresKeith]

Bester76 wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Ahahah.  It is absolutely hilarious that you would make this point while talking about an interactive videogame.  A videogame who's USP was forging a personal story based on your own choices.  Kudos, good sir.  It's been fun.

Likewise, thanks for playing. 

Speaking of interactive;

"Interactive storytelling - Experience the beginning, middle and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."

I'm glad that I killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 - otherwise she'd have turned up in ME3. Oh....

I'm glad that I chose Anderson to be the Human representative on the Council, otherwise it might have been Udina in ME3. Oh....

Good job I blew up the Collector base, wouldn't want Cerberus getting their hands on that Human Reaper. Oh.....

I can't wait for the final battle and see everyone in action. Oh..

[Reth Shepherd]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it. Mac Walters has said it. I have sadi it. I will say it again. The Extended Cut is the "end of the endings". While there is more DLC coming for both Single & Multiplay and that DLC may have some effect on the endings (such as the new dialog with teh Catalyst from Leviathan), there are no mote endings for Mass Effect 3 planned.

You can continue to hope and you can believe what I say or not. It is true that things do change given enough time (This is not lying, plans do change. Take for example that ME1 will now be coming to the PS3 as an example). That said the team is not currently working on new/more endings and has no plan to start. We are working on ME3 DLC and teh new Mass Effect game, not new endings.

So be it. Give EA my regards.

[Jadebaby]

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Sorry, but this isn't true. It was never thought to be a "final" breath because they clearly inhale.. If it were a final breath it would be an exhale... THE PROBLEM IS.. Shepard SURVIVING whar comes next. We dont even see any of his/her limbs. Shepard could be in 5 different pieces when they take that breath.

The sheer amount of questions that can be raised in this scene (how survive explosions etc..) disproves your assertion that this ending is not open-ended and ambiguous. Because it VERY much is.

[Xellith]

Davik Kang wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Make the ending up?  Its called Fan-Fiction.

I really gotta sleep but come on.  Fan fiction?  In the end, Shepard dies.  If you did Destroy and had a strong enough army, she/he lives.  What do you want? 

Its already been stated that the breath scene could just be shepard last breath before he dies.  Or his recovering and he is going to be fine.  The fact its up for interpretation means that you can fan fiction it away however you like.

[Reth Shepherd]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is a valid way to end a story. It just may not be your personal preference. There are many such movies and books, some games that leave the fate of the protaganist unknown. There is nothing wrong with that method. It is merely personal preference whether you like that method or not. There is nothing wrong with them choosing to use that method here, it is just you do not enjoy or like it being used on this occassion.

so the endings where Shepard is dead gets closure, but the one where he can live gets no closure but for us to use our imagination instead of getting what we paid for. That's not a valid way to end a story.

Dude, you should have gotten the hint by now that the ending you chose simply wasn't the right one. Choose wisely next time and you get all the closure you can hope for. 

Indeed.

[darthoptimus003]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Why the obsession with closure? The story lives on in your own mind, and your interpretation of it is the most important thing for you. If they had given blanket, clear-cut endings, they may well have been contrary to the characterisation you gave Shepard in your story.

Making a generic happy (or sad) ending would make the adventure deeply unpersonal in retrospect. But this way, with speculation and uncertainty rife, the adventure lives on, in a way that is both personal to you and reflective of the whole adventure.

I know that people wanted more information about the future of the people they saved and the consequences of many. many decisions, but imo this ending applies a much more personal end to the story, which allows the legend of your own Shepard to live on.

We can speculate all we want on how SHepard spends teh rest of his/her life.

But first we need to know SHepard lives.  Not easy to do when we only have half an ending where SHepard lives.  As opposed to the other 7.5 endings where Shepard unequivocally dies.

But Chris already said if you want him to live then he lives in that ending. If want him to die then he dies in that ending. They did not stop you believing is alive by having him left in the rubble, it merely means if you want him to live he just has to be found by anyone you feel like imagining find him. The way it was handled you can have it end the way you want, you have been given that freedom to do so.

im chiming in on this real quick
i didnt spend this kind of money just to imagine an ending
if your happy with the ending good for you dragonlordz
but stop try to justify a crapy ass ending in a thread that is trying to get more tlet me repeat MORE endings or add to refusal and destroy for those of us that dont like the endings and are still upset after 6 mth. of BWs bs thru this hole thing and are just trying to re enjoy the games ourselfs just like you
this thread is to help try and get more endings not take away

3d i think your thread is awsome and well done despite what i fear its trying to turn into thanks to some
now back on topic  if the people are willing to pay make and sell it bw makes money