6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Lunch Box1912]

CronoDragoon wrote...


I'm really sorry you've had these bad experiences. But pointing out the poor actions of others doesn't insulate you. I don't think you are intentionally trying to be selfish, but that is the result when you suggest that people with high EMS Destroy have Shepard live and low have him die. That is forcing a group of people to skip a significant portion of the content to get what they want.

Who plays a game to kill their character? Honestly, really who?

Man super Mario Bros is really great, but I think it would be a whole lot better if Luigie stabbed that plumber right in the face?
Really?

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[Jasons073]

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Every other ending is pretty damn different though. Just because they want Shepard sacrificed doesn't mean they agree with Control or Synthesis.

But I agree that ideally we would have gotten more distinct scenes for Destroy.

And I could say he same for Destroy.  Just because people want their Shepard to live doesnt' mean that agree with Destroy.  But there's no other option that even hints at Shepard's survival.

You may think it's unfair for Sacrifice Shepards.  But live Shepards got screwed worse.  Far, far worse.

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...

@CronoDragoon Bioware did this themselves having a certain level of EMS for Destory gives you the breathe scene, if you had lower than that you don't get the scene. What's wrong with getting more to that scene if people had higher EMS to see Shepard live?

Touche, since it's obvious to me the intent of the scene is to give hope to people who want him alive. I would only say that because it is still ambiguous it doesn't nullify a certain group as currently the scene stands.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Every other ending is pretty damn different though. Just because they want Shepard sacrificed doesn't mean they agree with Control or Synthesis.

But I agree that ideally we would have gotten more distinct scenes for Destroy.

And I could say he same for Destroy.  Just because people want their Shepard to live doesnt' mean that agree with Destroy.  But there's no other option that even hints at Shepard's survival.

You may think it's unfair for Sacrifice Shepards.  But live Shepards got screwed worse.  Far, far worse.

As someone who believes Shepard lives, I disagree. What we have now is ambiguity, which is far better than if BW came out and said, "Shepard's dead in that scene, it's his last breath." I have a feeling you'd feel much worse hearing that than you do now.

[CronoDragoon]

Jasons073 wrote...

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

To answer your question Lunch Box, here is someone. He isn't alone either; one of the divides I remember in Retake was whether or not Shepard's sacrifice would be a fitting ending. Obviously more people wanted him alive but I was surprised by how many supported endings in which he dies.

There's a difference between a sacrifice ending and a downer ending. For example, Mordin's sacrifice wasn't a downer; I was touched and moved. Some believe the same applies to Shepard.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

As someone who believes Shepard lives, I disagree. What we have now is ambiguity, which is far better than if BW came out and said, "Shepard's dead in that scene, it's his last breath." I have a feeling you'd feel much worse hearing that than you do now.

At least I would have closure 

But seriously.  No, I doubt I would feel much worse, given I uninstalled the game weeks ago.  I can't see going back to Mass Effect with th eendings as they are.  What could get worse than that?

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

As someone who believes Shepard lives, I disagree. What we have now is ambiguity, which is far better than if BW came out and said, "Shepard's dead in that scene, it's his last breath." I have a feeling you'd feel much worse hearing that than you do now.

At least I would have closure 

But seriously.  No, I doubt I would feel much worse, given I uninstalled the game weeks ago.  I can't see going back to Mass Effect with th eendings as they are.  What could get worse than that?

Hah. Well maybe your feeling good-ometer has hit E then. I will only speak for myself then when I say that if BW said Shepard definitely dies in Destroy I'd feel pretty crappy about it. Then my vision of Tali finding Shepard would be meaningless.

[hiraeth]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

As someone who believes Shepard lives, I disagree. What we have now is ambiguity, which is far better than if BW came out and said, "Shepard's dead in that scene, it's his last breath." I have a feeling you'd feel much worse hearing that than you do now.

At least I would have closure 

But seriously.  No, I doubt I would feel much worse, given I uninstalled the game weeks ago.  I can't see going back to Mass Effect with th eendings as they are.  What could get worse than that?

Hah. Well maybe your feeling good-ometer has hit E then. I will only speak for myself then when I say that if BW said Shepard definitely dies in Destroy I'd feel pretty crappy about it. Then my vision of Tali finding Shepard would be meaningless.

i agree with both of you- yeah, the ambiguity is more hopeful than a "no seriously guys he's dead in every single ending." at the same time, i can't bring myself to replay me3- it's just such a disappointment.

[Lunch Box1912]

CronoDragoon wrote...


To answer your question Lunch Box, here is someone. He isn't alone either; one of the divides I remember in Retake was whether or not Shepard's sacrifice would be a fitting ending. Obviously more people wanted him alive but I was surprised by how many supported endings in which he dies.

There's a difference between a sacrifice ending and a downer ending. For example, Mordin's sacrifice wasn't a downer; I was touched and moved. Some believe the same applies to Shepard.



CronoDragoon wrote...


I'm really sorry you've had these bad experiences. But pointing out the poor actions of others doesn't insulate you. I don't think you are intentionally trying to be selfish, but that is the result when you suggest that people with high EMS Destroy have Shepard live and low have him die. That is forcing a group of people to skip a significant portion of the content to get what they want.
 

Agreed but what you where implying was that people could not get the death ending they wanted because they would have played enough and acquired enough EMS to survive. That defeats the whole purpose of playing the game. It’s not about dying.  EVEN IF YOU STILL END UP DYING AT THE END OF THE GAME.
There could be different scenarios where he/she dies heroically or lives by the skin of his/her teeth … they definitely could have done this. They already somewhat did this with the ending setup they have, you pick RED BLUE or GREEN. One could have been he/she dies heroically, one lives by the skin of his/her teeth, and the other he/she turns into Megatron. They could have done and still could give gamers what they’re asking for as they already disregarded EMS and all other dynamics of your choices.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[N7 Lisbeth]

Jasons073 wrote...

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

No, I agree, it's not perfect. I'd love a perfect ending, but I'll take an imperfect ending that provides closure. The current EC endings do not provide that for me.

The problem with the endings isn't Shepard sacrificing herself, it's the atrocities you inflict.

(a) Genocide on allies and friends
( Become a reaper, come back and reap later
© Indoctrinate everyone

None of these appeal to me. They can be tweaked to make them more palatable. Destroy could not, you know, kill the geth and EDI, just reapers. Or Synthesis could not be space magic and instead just be brokered peace.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I enjoyed being an orator in the Mass Effect games. Particularly in ME1 and ME2, I could talk people down and change worlds with words alone. With words. I do the same thing in ME3 and I'm rewarded for it, until the ending, where suddenly words fail me. I mean, I've already brokered the peace between synthetics and organics (Geth & Quarians), but suddenly in the face of indoctrination, I can't use that as an example of how yes, peace can be established and yes, the Catalyst is completely fahrbot and full of dren.

[Jadebaby]

@ ID1449, I will NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! Be at peace with the utter crap that are the endings. We were told conventional victory was impossible, guess what? We were also told control was impossible! And synthesis? There was never any Organic vs Synthetic theme so that's just crap in itself. This leaves destroy.

@CronoDragon, [I respectfully disagree. I believe] that HIGH EMS destroy has no closure for Shepard. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!11!!1!!!!!!!!!111!1!!

@ Dragoonbloodlordsz, [how ya doin', buddy?]

[Inappropriate comments edited.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:05 .

[CronoDragoon]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...
Agreed but what you where implying was that people could not get the death ending they wanted because they would have played enough and acquired enough EMS to survive. That defeats the whole purpose of playing the game. It’s not about dying.  EVEN IF YOU STILL END UP DYING AT THE END OF THE GAME.

It's not about living either, then. Either someone has a right to the type of ending they want (Shep lives vs. he dies) or they do not. Playing well should lead to both endings, depending on what the player wants. Playing well shouldn't automatically exclude one interpretation now that both interpretations have been established as viable.

[N7 Lisbeth]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Jasons073 wrote...

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

To answer your question Lunch Box, here is someone. He isn't alone either; one of the divides I remember in Retake was whether or not Shepard's sacrifice would be a fitting ending. Obviously more people wanted him alive but I was surprised by how many supported endings in which he dies.

There's a difference between a sacrifice ending and a downer ending. For example, Mordin's sacrifice wasn't a downer; I was touched and moved. Some believe the same applies to Shepard.

See, now we're getting to the heart of the matter (it's not for the first time that this has been brought up, but I'll run with it).

Tarquin Victus is an example of a meaningful death. He died to save his people, not just from shame but literally in the bigger picture of the war.

Shepard dying in Synthesis is the opposite: it is not a meaningful death. There's no reason for you to be atomised, there's no logic to it (nor was there in Legion's death). Worse, you sacrifice yourself not to save everyone, but to indoctrinate everyone. Worst. Ending. Ever.

I envy Tarquin for having such a clear-cut, triumphant sacrifice scene. Mordin and Thane as well. Me? I galactically frelled everyone for the Reapers. Hooray!

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Jasons073 wrote...

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

No, I agree, it's not perfect. I'd love a perfect ending, but I'll take an imperfect ending that provides closure. The current EC endings do not provide that for me.

The problem with the endings isn't Shepard sacrificing herself, it's the atrocities you inflict.

(a) Genocide on allies and friends
( Become a reaper, come back and reap later
© Indoctrinate everyone

None of these appeal to me. They can be tweaked to make them more palatable. Destroy could not, you know, kill the geth and EDI, just reapers. Or Synthesis could not be space magic and instead just be brokered peace.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I enjoyed being an orator in the Mass Effect games. Particularly in ME1 and ME2, I could talk people down and change worlds with words alone. With words. I do the same thing in ME3 and I'm rewarded for it, until the ending, where suddenly words fail me. I mean, I've already brokered the peace between synthetics and organics (Geth & Quarians), but suddenly in the face of indoctrination, I can't use that as an example of how yes, peace can be established and yes, the Catalyst is completely fahrbot and full of dren.

You have no proof of the latter part of your option (.

The first part is dubious too. The catalyst was not a Reaper. It controlled the Reapers.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[dreman9999]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

[snip]

1. We were never told control is impossible. The organic vs Synthetic theme was open on the very first mission of mass effect and then driven in by the vision Shepard got later on that mission.
As shepard stated in ME1.
"I saw a vision of synthetics killing organics....Butchering them."

2.It called an open ended ending. Is inseption a bad movie because it ended open ended? The problem here is that you don't want to imagine Shepard alive. BW left that concept up to our minds if he lived or died.

[Inappropriate quote edited.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[N7 Lisbeth]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Jasons073 wrote...

Maybe it's because I never got a chance to finish ME3 until after the extended cut came out (I blame 2L year of law school for that) and never felt the feelings that other fans faced, but I was quite pleased with the ending. The entire series portrays Shepard as the ultimate hero (or the ultimate soldier willing to do anything to beat the reapers, in case of the "renegade" path) and the ultimate heroic act IS sacrifice. While it would have been nice to see an epilogue where my Shepard marries Ashley, visits old friends, etc., having Shepard sacrifice himself at the end (regardless of the ending chosen) makes just as much sense, especially when the reaper army is so vast and powerful that it's basically impossible to defeat through brute force. I also have no criticism about the fact that the illusive man was "mysteriously"at the Crucible. It's clear throughout the game that he's slowly becoming indoctrinated as he obsesses over controlling the reapers. That the Catalyst would show Shepard that it managed to corrupt what was supposed to be humanity's greatest servant in order to demoralize Shepard is plausible.

While I would have preferred more dialogue to accompany the epilogue slides, I liked them, especially with the synthesis ending. These are the things I would have liked to see, although they did not keep the game from being among my top 3 favorite games of all time:

(1) more interaction between Harbinger and Shepard throughout the course of the game. While the Catalyst is the eventual main antagonist, Harbinger is behind most of the reapers' (and the collectors in ME2's) actions throughout the game. Yet, other than mechanical grinding, he rarely (if ever) speaks to Shepard. We get a chance to speak to one reaper on Rannoch, but never Harbinger. It would have been nice to see some dialogue with Harbinger before it fries Shepard on his run up to the Crucible.

(2) The "destroy" option kills EDI and the geth. This, to me, always makes "destroy" seem like the most "evil" option, especially if you've been playing a good character that's managed to unite the quarians and the geth. On the other hand, I recognize that the Crucible is intended to release an enormous amount of energy and understand that it probably cannot discriminate between individual groups of synthetics.

Was it perfect? Did it wrap up all of its themes as much as I would have liked? Only in Planescape: Torment, has the ending of a video game ever managed to be "perfect." But it provided sufficient closure for Bioware's masterpiece and left me more than satisfied with the series.

No, I agree, it's not perfect. I'd love a perfect ending, but I'll take an imperfect ending that provides closure. The current EC endings do not provide that for me.

The problem with the endings isn't Shepard sacrificing herself, it's the atrocities you inflict.

(a) Genocide on allies and friends
( Become a reaper, come back and reap later
© Indoctrinate everyone

None of these appeal to me. They can be tweaked to make them more palatable. Destroy could not, you know, kill the geth and EDI, just reapers. Or Synthesis could not be space magic and instead just be brokered peace.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I enjoyed being an orator in the Mass Effect games. Particularly in ME1 and ME2, I could talk people down and change worlds with words alone. With words. I do the same thing in ME3 and I'm rewarded for it, until the ending, where suddenly words fail me. I mean, I've already brokered the peace between synthetics and organics (Geth & Quarians), but suddenly in the face of indoctrination, I can't use that as an example of how yes, peace can be established and yes, the Catalyst is completely fahrbot and full of dren.

You have no proof of the latter part of your option (.

The first part is dubious too. The catalyst was not a Reaper. It controlled the Reapers.

Actually, I do. You need to listen to the Catalyst again. He specifically says it's a temporary solution and that the cycle will repeat. Bonus: He says the same thing about the Destroy option. The cycle will repeat, indoctrination is the only solution!

And it is well established that the Catalyst created the Reapers and is thus their maker -- which by extension makes it the "first Reaper."

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[CronoDragoon]

Jade8aby88 wrote...
@CronoDragon, I'm calling you a troll because it is FACT that HIGH EMS destroy has no closure for Shepard. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!11!!1!!!!!!!!!111!1!!

It's not a fact. It's clear we are arguing from different definitions of closure, though. 

And whether it's a fact or not, what the hell does that have to do with being a troll?

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...


@ ID1449, I will NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! Be at peace with the utter crap that are the endings. We were told conventional victory was impossible, guess what? We were also told control was impossible! And synthesis? There was never any Organic vs Synthetic theme so that's just crap in itself. This leaves destroy.

@CronoDragon, I'm calling you a troll because it is FACT that HIGH EMS destroy has no closure for Shepard. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!11!!1!!!!!!!!!111!1!!

@ Dragoonbloodlordsz, Right here buddy...

1. We were never told control is impossible. The organic vs Synthetic theme was open on the very first mission of mass effect and then driven in by the vision Shepard got later on that mission.
As shepard stated in ME1.
"I saw a vision of synthetics killing organics....Butchering them."

2.It called an open ended ending. Is inseption a bad movie because it ended open ended? The problem here is that you don't want to imagine Shepard alive. BW left that concept up to our minds if he lived or died.

which takes away the closure they talked about when people wanted more to the Breathe scene

[CronoDragoon]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

And it is well established that the Catalyst created the Reapers and is thus their maker -- which by extension makes it the "first Reaper."

No, it doesn't. God isn't a human.

(I am not religious, but this is an appropriate metaphor)

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

As someone who believes Shepard lives, I disagree. What we have now is ambiguity, which is far better than if BW came out and said, "Shepard's dead in that scene, it's his last breath." I have a feeling you'd feel much worse hearing that than you do now.

At least I would have closure 

But seriously.  No, I doubt I would feel much worse, given I uninstalled the game weeks ago.  I can't see going back to Mass Effect with th eendings as they are.  What could get worse than that?

In trhis case closer is for us to make. BW ending the story of SHepard like this is just them giving us the pen to write the rest of Sheps story.

[Lunch Box1912]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...
Agreed but what you where implying was that people could not get the death ending they wanted because they would have played enough and acquired enough EMS to survive. That defeats the whole purpose of playing the game. It’s not about dying.  EVEN IF YOU STILL END UP DYING AT THE END OF THE GAME.

It's not about living either, then. Either someone has a right to the type of ending they want (Shep lives vs. he dies) or they do not. Playing well should lead to both endings, depending on what the player wants. Playing well shouldn't automatically exclude one interpretation now that both interpretations have been established as viable.

Repost:
Agreed but what you where implying was that people could not get the death ending they wanted because they would have played enough and acquired enough EMS to survive. That defeats the whole purpose of playing the game. It’s not about dying. EVEN IF YOU STILL END UP DYING AT THE END OF THE GAME.
There could be different scenarios where he/she dies heroically or lives by the skin of his/her teeth … they definitely could have done this. They already somewhat did this with the ending setup they have, you pick RED BLUE or GREEN. One could have been he/she dies heroically, one lives by the skin of his/her teeth, and the other he/she turns into Megatron. They could have done and still could give gamers what they’re asking for as they already disregarded EMS and all other dynamics of your choices.

[Jadebaby]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. We were never told control is impossible. The organic vs Synthetic theme was open on the very first mission of mass effect and then driven in by the vision Shepard got later on that mission.
As shepard stated in ME1.
"I saw a vision of synthetics killing organics....Butchering them."

2.It called an open ended ending. Is inseption a bad movie because it ended open ended? The problem here is that you don't want to imagine Shepard alive. BW left that concept up to our minds if he lived or died.

1. Control was VERY heavily implied through-out the entire series as impossible. The same way Hackett's single opinion of "we cant beat them conventionally" doesn't say that we can't.
FACEPALM! The very first mission was the Geth being under Reaper control, same for the rest of ME1.

"I saw a vision of synthetics butchering organics." - These synthetics are the ****ing Reapers, you idiot!

2. Oh really? Because according to Priestly, it's not open-ended...

[CronoDragoon]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Shepard dying in Synthesis is the opposite: it is not a meaningful death. There's no reason for you to be atomised, there's no logic to it (nor was there in Legion's death). Worse, you sacrifice yourself not to save everyone, but to indoctrinate everyone. Worst. Ending. Ever.

I envy Tarquin for having such a clear-cut, triumphant sacrifice scene. Mordin and Thane as well. Me? I galactically frelled everyone for the Reapers. Hooray!

Obviously if you start with the premise that Synthesis indoctrinates everyone then his death isn't meaningful. Not many people believe this interpretation of Synthesis, though.

But this isn't relevant to whether or not Destroy people could find Shepard's death meaningful.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...


@ ID1449, I will NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! Be at peace with the utter crap that are the endings. We were told conventional victory was impossible, guess what? We were also told control was impossible! And synthesis? There was never any Organic vs Synthetic theme so that's just crap in itself. This leaves destroy.

@CronoDragon, I'm calling you a troll because it is FACT that HIGH EMS destroy has no closure for Shepard. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!11!!1!!!!!!!!!111!1!!

@ Dragoonbloodlordsz, Right here buddy...

1. We were never told control is impossible. The organic vs Synthetic theme was open on the very first mission of mass effect and then driven in by the vision Shepard got later on that mission.
As shepard stated in ME1.
"I saw a vision of synthetics killing organics....Butchering them."

2.It called an open ended ending. Is inseption a bad movie because it ended open ended? The problem here is that you don't want to imagine Shepard alive. BW left that concept up to our minds if he lived or died.

which takes away the closure they talked about when people wanted more to the Breathe scene

In trhis case closer is for us to make. BW ending the story of SHepard like this is just them giving us the pen to write the rest of Sheps story.
That's the point of open end ending. For the veiwer to decide for themselves. It's like how inception left it up to the veiw to pick if the ending was a dream or reality.