dreman9999 wrote...
Spend $10 buck or don't kill Kaiden.CitizenThom wrote...
(except I only had one biotic squad member, wtf? at least half the squadmembers in ME2 had biotics.
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?dreman9999 wrote...
It doesn't matter. It still is a shelfish post.Baa Baa wrote...
The poster was polite, nondemanding, and respectful in how he worded it.
But you probably didn't even ****ing read it.
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
Can you show me anywhere in my post that I said endings? I answered the question asked. If you were the product manufacturer, would you like 30% of your customers to have hated your product? Where does this specifically mention endings? In case you're guilty of not reading posts, I despise the endings. I despise them so much that I made up my own, and even asked for an import point where I quit, so I could reuse Shepards w/out having to sit through them. So, before you go all "Circle the Wagons, BSN, we've got us an new proender to attack", maybe you better check your facts. Because assumptions are bad, mmkay.plfranke wrote...
I know, but he was making it seem as if 70% liked the ending and Bioware did a fantastic job because of that. Whether an ending dlc would sell I can't say based on that data. I can say I would pay a full game's worth for an ending that is on the level of mass effect 2's suicide mission. I can't say that the majority hate the ending, but too many people do.MegaSovereign wrote...
plfranke wrote...
no 70% did not like it. 36% loved it and 34% didn't care one way or the other. And no 30% hating it is not a damn fine job. It's far from it.robertthebard wrote...
Your outlook is skewed, 70% liked it, and that's the number I would look at and focus on. I would take feedback, and weigh it against what ever my product was, but if I released something that I wanted to release, and it got this kind of feedback, I'd be pleased. I wouldn't be overly excited, per se, but I would be pleased. Is the cup half full, or half empty, in this case, only a true pessimist would say "see, you sucked". You can never please everybody, but if you can score 70%, you did a damn fine job. It sucks to say this about the endings, since I hate them, but when you talk about capitalism, that's a win.PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
http://social.biowar...13/polls/35774/
BSN poll about the EC. Simple "yes, maybe, no." I'm pretty sure the poll results will become skewed since I posted it here, but:
As of now, 673 votes.
36% loved it
34% thought it was okay
30% hated it.
That does not sound like the overwhelming majority hated it.
Let's assume for the moment that your BSN poll represented absolute truth and either by luck or science was a perfect representation of all purchasers of the game everywhere.
If you were the product manufacturer, would you like 30% of your customers to have hated your product?
That wasn't even the argument. The OP is saying that they should delay non-ending DLC content in order to introduce unplanned ending DLC content that would pacify "the majority." Even if the poll results were only slightly in favor of the EC then that would show that this is not the case.
robertthebard wrote...
Your outlook is skewed, 70% liked it, and that's the number I would look at and focus on. I would take feedback, and weigh it against what ever my product was, but if I released something that I wanted to release, and it got this kind of feedback, I'd be pleased. I wouldn't be overly excited, per se, but I would be pleased. Is the cup half full, or half empty, in this case, only a true pessimist would say "see, you sucked". You can never please everybody, but if you can score 70%, you did a damn fine job. It sucks to say this about the endings, since I hate them, but when you talk about capitalism, that's a win.
Yes, that was the problem. The original endings was done like a student who was trying to finish a 10 page report in one night.CitizenThom wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Spend $10 buck or don't kill Kaiden.CitizenThom wrote...
(except I only had one biotic squad member, wtf? at least half the squadmembers in ME2 had biotics.
*breaks out canned response*
So you're saying day one mass effect was not the complete game?
I know, but he was making it seem as if 70% liked the ending and Bioware did a fantastic job because of that. Whether an ending dlc would sell I can't say based on that data. I can say I would pay a full game's worth for an ending that is on the level of mass effect 2's suicide mission. I can't say that the majority hate the ending, but too many people do.
"It sucks to say this about the ENDINGS" You were talking about the endings the whole post. I admit I didn't read all the way to the end where you said you hated them. However, you were still trying to misrepresent the 70% and you were labeling it as if it was a great achievement.robertthebard wrote...
Can you show me anywhere in my post that I said endings? I answered the question asked. If you were the product manufacturer, would you like 30% of your customers to have hated your product? Where does this specifically mention endings? In case you're guilty of not reading posts, I despise the endings. I despise them so much that I made up my own, and even asked for an import point where I quit, so I could reuse Shepards w/out having to sit through them. So, before you go all "Circle the Wagons, BSN, we've got us an new proender to attack", maybe you better check your facts. Because assumptions are bad, mmkay.plfranke wrote...
I know, but he was making it seem as if 70% liked the ending and Bioware did a fantastic job because of that. Whether an ending dlc would sell I can't say based on that data. I can say I would pay a full game's worth for an ending that is on the level of mass effect 2's suicide mission. I can't say that the majority hate the ending, but too many people do.MegaSovereign wrote...
plfranke wrote...
no 70% did not like it. 36% loved it and 34% didn't care one way or the other. And no 30% hating it is not a damn fine job. It's far from it.robertthebard wrote...
Your outlook is skewed, 70% liked it, and that's the number I would look at and focus on. I would take feedback, and weigh it against what ever my product was, but if I released something that I wanted to release, and it got this kind of feedback, I'd be pleased. I wouldn't be overly excited, per se, but I would be pleased. Is the cup half full, or half empty, in this case, only a true pessimist would say "see, you sucked". You can never please everybody, but if you can score 70%, you did a damn fine job. It sucks to say this about the endings, since I hate them, but when you talk about capitalism, that's a win.PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
http://social.biowar...13/polls/35774/
BSN poll about the EC. Simple "yes, maybe, no." I'm pretty sure the poll results will become skewed since I posted it here, but:
As of now, 673 votes.
36% loved it
34% thought it was okay
30% hated it.
That does not sound like the overwhelming majority hated it.
Let's assume for the moment that your BSN poll represented absolute truth and either by luck or science was a perfect representation of all purchasers of the game everywhere.
If you were the product manufacturer, would you like 30% of your customers to have hated your product?
That wasn't even the argument. The OP is saying that they should delay non-ending DLC content in order to introduce unplanned ending DLC content that would pacify "the majority." Even if the poll results were only slightly in favor of the EC then that would show that this is not the case.
If you don't see that what you want is what BW does not want to do then you don't understand.3DandBeyond wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You not getting the fact that less people hate it then people who are ok with it and like it.
Ok, actually quit telling me what I do or do not understand. It's getting really old, dreman. I understood that.
When someone says something is ok, that means they don't hate it. A lot of people that didn't like the endings wouldn't say they hate them. But a lot of them aren't interested in buying anymore BW products ever again either. People that say they hate it really hate the whole ending. People that are ok with it are not saying it's good or great or anything like that. In fact, a lot of people that have said it's ok, said a lot of things after that. You don't get that.
People said, "it's ok, not the ending I wanted" or "it's ok now, but I still don't like it much", and so on.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Xellith wrote...
I was waiting the entire time for a suicide mission 2.0 where I would see assets in action.
dreman9999 wrote...
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?dreman9999 wrote...
It doesn't matter. It still is a shelfish post.Baa Baa wrote...
The poster was polite, nondemanding, and respectful in how he worded it.
But you probably didn't even ****ing read it.
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
Yeah, but I took the question to mean generally releasing a product with those kinds of numbers. Based solely on that, the outlook is skewed. In business, you look at feedback from everybody, fix what you can, and go again and hope for more successful numbers the second time around. If, in context with the question as presented, I got these kind of numbers, I'd have been encouraged, not discouraged. Context is important, had he said endings, I would have skipped the post, more than likely.3DandBeyond wrote...
robertthebard wrote...
Your outlook is skewed, 70% liked it, and that's the number I would look at and focus on. I would take feedback, and weigh it against what ever my product was, but if I released something that I wanted to release, and it got this kind of feedback, I'd be pleased. I wouldn't be overly excited, per se, but I would be pleased. Is the cup half full, or half empty, in this case, only a true pessimist would say "see, you sucked". You can never please everybody, but if you can score 70%, you did a damn fine job. It sucks to say this about the endings, since I hate them, but when you talk about capitalism, that's a win.
Robert,
With all due respect that's not quite true. Of those that said it was ok, a lot said they were still done with BW and DLC and only waited to get the EC. It did enough but still wasn't what they hoped it would be. What a lot of people said was that they wished the whole thing had been redone, but knew it wasn't going to happen, but it fixed enough so they could finish the game and they were now done with it. Not everyone said this but a lot of people did. I see people saying this now-some who are even arguing here have told me they didn't like the kid at all, the dialogue sucks, this or that stinks, but it's ok.
That is just what video games have done to people. It's just usually games are geared to teenage boys who mostly don't use their own money to buy them, so if they don't like a game they sell it, give it away or just don't play it. ME appealed to a wide group of people who do not just accept any old thing. If you buy a toaster and it doesn't work, you return it, but video games have always been looked at differently. It's evident from the comments I've read that people don't think you have a right (or that they do) to say anything about content. Well, that's BS. You aren't paying for the plastic it's burned on-you are paying for the content. But on forums when people complain about game content often they get told, "what did you expect it's a game". Well, you know what. I expect to get certain things including promised things. If they don't keep those promises, I expect others to say that's a valid complaint. And it's wrong for anyone to accept something they don't like and say, "oh well what do you expect".
If someone had written this as a book and made the claims BW did, literary critics would have ripped it and them apart (they did this to ME3, anyway) and publishers and editors would have taken note. And customers would not have gotten mad at those that didn't like the book. But with this game, people didn't like it, "reviewers" got mad at customers and called them names and then other fans seemed to think promises and good content was unimportant. People need to really value the money they spend on these things.
OK for ME3 is not good or great or love. It's an average rating. And not always from a satisfied customer.
dreman9999 wrote...
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?dreman9999 wrote...
It doesn't matter. It still is a shelfish post.Baa Baa wrote...
The poster was polite, nondemanding, and respectful in how he worded it.
But you probably didn't even ****ing read it.
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
It avergly rated because people hate the endings. The majority like the game till the last moment....Which is why the changed the last moments.3DandBeyond wrote...
robertthebard wrote...
Your outlook is skewed, 70% liked it, and that's the number I would look at and focus on. I would take feedback, and weigh it against what ever my product was, but if I released something that I wanted to release, and it got this kind of feedback, I'd be pleased. I wouldn't be overly excited, per se, but I would be pleased. Is the cup half full, or half empty, in this case, only a true pessimist would say "see, you sucked". You can never please everybody, but if you can score 70%, you did a damn fine job. It sucks to say this about the endings, since I hate them, but when you talk about capitalism, that's a win.
Robert,
With all due respect that's not quite true. Of those that said it was ok, a lot said they were still done with BW and DLC and only waited to get the EC. It did enough but still wasn't what they hoped it would be. What a lot of people said was that they wished the whole thing had been redone, but knew it wasn't going to happen, but it fixed enough so they could finish the game and they were now done with it. Not everyone said this but a lot of people did. I see people saying this now-some who are even arguing here have told me they didn't like the kid at all, the dialogue sucks, this or that stinks, but it's ok.
That is just what video games have done to people. It's just usually games are geared to teenage boys who mostly don't use their own money to buy them, so if they don't like a game they sell it, give it away or just don't play it. ME appealed to a wide group of people who do not just accept any old thing. If you buy a toaster and it doesn't work, you return it, but video games have always been looked at differently. It's evident from the comments I've read that people don't think you have a right (or that they do) to say anything about content. Well, that's BS. You aren't paying for the plastic it's burned on-you are paying for the content. But on forums when people complain about game content often they get told, "what did you expect it's a game". Well, you know what. I expect to get certain things including promised things. If they don't keep those promises, I expect others to say that's a valid complaint. And it's wrong for anyone to accept something they don't like and say, "oh well what do you expect".
If someone had written this as a book and made the claims BW did, literary critics would have ripped it and them apart (they did this to ME3, anyway) and publishers and editors would have taken note. And customers would not have gotten mad at those that didn't like the book. But with this game, people didn't like it, "reviewers" got mad at customers and called them names and then other fans seemed to think promises and good content was unimportant. People need to really value the money they spend on these things.
OK for ME3 is not good or great or love. It's an average rating. And not always from a satisfied customer.
Not my argument. I'll admit I'm off topic. There are some people on this thread though that aren't like you mega. They're trying to make 30% hating the ending seem negligible, and totally ignoring that the 34% that just thought they were okay also were not entirely satisfied. I don't think they should refocus their entire dlc schedule. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that if there were a dlc that was actually just an addition to the game, not like Leviathan which should have been there to begin with, they could postpone or cancel it in favor of an ending dlc that would probably sell to at least 64% of the fanbase.MegaSovereign wrote...
I know, but he was making it seem as if 70% liked the ending and Bioware did a fantastic job because of that. Whether an ending dlc would sell I can't say based on that data. I can say I would pay a full game's worth for an ending that is on the level of mass effect 2's suicide mission. I can't say that the majority hate the ending, but too many people do.
So why should they refocus their DLC schedule to pacify those that didn't like it, even if they necessarily aren't the majority?
Even besides this, if its premium DLC then surely this would backfire even more. Wouldn't it?
Yep, guess I did reference what the poll was about, but I read the question, and answered it. The answer holds too, if only 30% of the people that bought my product hated it, I was successful.plfranke wrote...
"It sucks to say this about the ENDINGS" You were talking about the endings the whole post. I admit I didn't read all the way to the end where you said you hated them. However, you were still trying to misrepresent the 70% and you were labeling it as if it was a great achievement.
Skeem wrote...
Xellith wrote...
I was waiting the entire time for a suicide mission 2.0 where I would see assets in action.
100% this!
LadyWench wrote...
Xellith wrote...
Id just like to point out that any conventional victory wouldnt be a cakewalk like some people are suggesting. I dont think anyone is suggesting a "yup we killed em. We didnt lose a single ship! huzzah!" scenario.
THIS! I like how a conventional "victory" is automatically a "happy" ending with no consequence. I have heard this mentioned on the forums before, and I don't see anything wrong with an ME2-like stacked ending, where certain chocies or allies Shep made over the games comes back and has an impact on how successful or not those allies are in battle or who survives at the end. Honestly, before ME3 dropped, that was what I was expecting!
Lol you have some pretty low expectations for your product.robertthebard wrote...
Yep, guess I did reference what the poll was about, but I read the question, and answered it. The answer holds too, if only 30% of the people that bought my product hated it, I was successful.plfranke wrote...
"It sucks to say this about the ENDINGS" You were talking about the endings the whole post. I admit I didn't read all the way to the end where you said you hated them. However, you were still trying to misrepresent the 70% and you were labeling it as if it was a great achievement.
1. I said I don't like the oiginal endings. The new ones I very much like. The catalsyt I now have to problem with. Priority :earth...That needs more work.3DandBeyond wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?dreman9999 wrote...
It doesn't matter. It still is a shelfish post.Baa Baa wrote...
The poster was polite, nondemanding, and respectful in how he worded it.
But you probably didn't even ****ing read it.
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
Where did I ingore anyone else's wishes? I stated my own and since when is that selfish? So, please tell me, when you express a wish are you being selfish?
I asked BW to consider things and I didn't even ask them to do so by ignoring those that are now happy with the endings they have. In fact, I've taken great pains to say it could be done without removing what is there, and not hurt you at all. And yet, dreman9999, you are one of those who has repeatedly said you don't like the endings or the kid that much. So, now you do?
What other party? I'm not sure who you think is being maligned or mistreated in this scenario.dreman9999 wrote...
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
It's their story. They have the right to take it were they want to go as long as it makes sense. And bw went out of the way to fix everything in the ending for it to make sense...Everything with in option.AresKeith wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
No. I'm discounting it because it won't change anything and it's ignoring the other parties wish.drayfish wrote...
Are you being serious?dreman9999 wrote...
It doesn't matter. It still is a shelfish post.Baa Baa wrote...
The poster was polite, nondemanding, and respectful in how he worded it.
But you probably didn't even ****ing read it.
(Not about the 'shellfish' thing - I presume that was a miss-type)
Are you genuinely discounting another human being's opinion because it doesn't align with yours? I don't even know where to begin responding to that. Surely that's not your level of discourse anywhere else in life?
and ignoring there wishes isn't selfish?
dreman9999 wrote...
1. I said I don't like the oiginal endings. The new ones I very much like. The catalsyt I now have to problem with. Priority :earth...That needs more work.
2.You missing the fat that what your asking is not the direction BW wants to go with the story. They are not going tomake a special ending just for the people who hate the choice at the end. You don't understand that. That why it's shelfish. Your only conserd for what you want, not what the people making it want.
AresKeith wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1. I said I don't like the oiginal endings. The new ones I very much like. The catalsyt I now have to problem with. Priority :earth...That needs more work.
2.You missing the fat that what your asking is not the direction BW wants to go with the story. They are not going tomake a special ending just for the people who hate the choice at the end. You don't understand that. That why it's shelfish. Your only conserd for what you want, not what the people making it want.
well its selfish of you to try and discount someone's thread which there allowed to make and call it pointless
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