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[TreguardD]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I read a quote by a user on tumblr regarding the destroy ending. I don't remember all of it, but here's what I do remember: "Sometimes, not everything has a happy ending. Sometimes the hero dies alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices". I found this to be strangely pretty.

There's a subset of people who are upset at Shepard's fate.

I'm not convinced they're the majority - they might be, but that's an aside.

Personally, I am upset that in no ending is the Uniqueness of the Universe preserved. In Control, you now have Ultimate Power controlled by an Ultimate Intelligence; in Synthesis, you create Instrumentally (the Assimilation Plot); in Destroy, you remove an entire synthetic race. In refuse, you fail them all.

It is a war. Individuals - even heroes - die.

But if you are not fighting to preserve the free will of others, ALL others, then why are you fighting?

[CaIIisto]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I read a quote by a user on tumblr regarding the destroy ending. I don't remember all of it, but here's what I do remember: "Sometimes, not everything has a happy ending. Sometimes the hero dies alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices". I found this to be strangely pretty.

I'm ok with that. Not so good with "The hero might die in the cave, or he might not, while the kingdom rejoices." 

[Iakus]

Bester76 wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

I read a quote by a user on tumblr regarding the destroy ending. I don't remember all of it, but here's what I do remember: "Sometimes, not everything has a happy ending. Sometimes the hero dies alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices". I found this to be strangely pretty.

I'm ok with that. Not so good with "The hero might die in the cave, or he might not, while the kingdom rejoices." 

I have a problem with a game that tells me my choices matter telling me I have no choice but to die in the cave.  At best, I might get an ambiguous ending that will graciously allow me to headcanon a different fate while every other ending says "Nope.  Cave.  Problem? ::insert trollface here::"

[N7 Lisbeth]

Bester76 wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

I read a quote by a user on tumblr regarding the destroy ending. I don't remember all of it, but here's what I do remember: "Sometimes, not everything has a happy ending. Sometimes the hero dies alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices". I found this to be strangely pretty.

I'm ok with that. Not so good with "The hero might die in the cave, or he might not, while the kingdom rejoices." 

I'd like to add, what rejoicing even? Hooray, genocide? Hooray, mutated everyone into living machines/indoctrination? Hooray, welcoming the reapers with open arms? Hooray, everyone dies, game over? Which of the four is a kingdom rejoicing, because I just don't see it.

I believe that Casey wants you to think that, but I don't see it in fact. Every option is a war crime. War crimes against the entire galaxy aren't victory. Maybe if you're playing a Renegade Shepard, that makes sense to you. But the entire point is that a staggering number of us (80% last official polls I saw of it) played Paragon and the ending is nonsensical to us.

Look, I'm down with the "sacrificing the individual to save the galaxy" mindset. It worked for Jack Bauer, it worked for a younger Saren. But this time we're sacricing the whole galaxy to save the galaxy, I just don't understand how that can be construed as victory in any way, shape, or form. I refute that logic in its entirety.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 02 octobre 2012 - 07:44 .

[MegaSovereign]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

I read a quote by a user on tumblr regarding the destroy ending. I don't remember all of it, but here's what I do remember: "Sometimes, not everything has a happy ending. Sometimes the hero dies alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices". I found this to be strangely pretty.

I'm ok with that. Not so good with "The hero might die in the cave, or he might not, while the kingdom rejoices." 

I'd like to add, what rejoicing even? Hooray, genocide? Hooray, mutated everyone into living machines/indoctrination? Hooray, welcoming the reapers with open arms? Hooray, everyone dies, game over? Which of the four is a kingdom rejoicing, because I just don't see it.

I believe that Casey wants you to think that, but I don't see it in fact. Every option is a war crime. War crimes against the entire galaxy aren't victory. Maybe if you're playing a Renegade Shepard, that makes sense to you. But the entire point is that a staggering number of us (80% last official polls I saw of it) played Paragon and the ending is nonsensical to us.

Look, I'm down with the "sacrificing the individual to save the galaxy" mindset. It worked for Jack Bauer, it worked for a younger Saren. But this time we're sacricing the whole galaxy to save the galaxy, I just don't understand how that can be construed as victory in any way, shape, or form. I refute that logic in its entirety.

Most of the galaxy won't be too heart broken about the Geth being destroyed. Besides you clearly see them rejoicing after the Crucible fires and kills the Reapers...

Also...Synthesis is a bit too ambigious for my taste but I doubt it leads to indoctrination...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The kid has you think destroy has "idiot" written all over it, but your other choices are: death, death. So I mean, what is the difference?

Give the genocidal bastard what he wants? Or send him and his minions to hell. He only is hinting you'll die.

Dying alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices is not something I find strangely pretty.

[GreyLycanTrope]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The kid has you think destroy has "idiot" written all over it, but your other choices are: death, death. So I mean, what is the difference?

Give the genocidal bastard what he wants? Or send him and his minions to hell. He only is hinting you'll die.

Dying alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices is not something I find strangely pretty.

You seemed to have missed the memo. Sacrifice is deep and the only way a journey can be meaningful.

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dying alone in a cave while the kingdom rejoices is not something I find strangely pretty.

Or as Kaylee Frye puts it:  "The hell with this, I'm gonna live!

[Chardonney]

Greylycantrope wrote...

You seemed to have missed the memo. Sacrifice is deep and the only way a journey can be meaningful.

Well, I definitely have to disagree. I think it's a grim point of view to see death as the only thing that can give a meaning. I see live and triumph give a meaning to the end of a journey and to the hardships endured; to actually survive when there seemed to be no light at the end of tunnel, against incredible odds.

 

[jakal66]

The biggest issue is that not even Bioware had the nerve to come and say he's alive or he's dead, chris himself came to the boards to say " it's up to what the player wants to beleive" regarding the breath scene.

PATHETIC...Headcannon? NO FRIGGIN WAY OK?

Have the balls to either kill him or save him after that sequence...don't come here telling us this was the best idea ever when it clearly shows cowardice...you probably wanted him dead in the fiorst place...but didn't have the courage to kill him so instead we got that LAME scene.If you really wanted to pamper us, those of us who would have enjoyed him survive at the cost of the geth and edi, you should have adapted a survival sequence in the EC but you blew destroy...you blew that whole ending.

By giving us that ambigious lame sequence and not providing the real closure that ending deserved.

[Xellith]

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

[jakal66]

proabaly for future MP and SP dlc...

[hiraeth]

Chardonney wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

You seemed to have missed the memo. Sacrifice is deep and the only way a journey can be meaningful.

Well, I definitely have to disagree. I think it's a grim point of view to see death as the only thing that can give a meaning. I see live and triumph give a meaning to the end of a journey and to the hardships endured; to actually survive when there seemed to be no light at the end of tunnel, against incredible odds.

Yeah I agree with Chardonney. Sure there are times when death can be a beautiful sacrifice, especially death in the form of sacrificing oneself for others, but it's by no means the only way to sacrifice and it doesn't invalidate or lessen other types of sacrifice. Having Shepard survive after all the other forms of sacrifice he's gone through (including actually dying once himself (ME2), among other things like sacrificing his squadmates and the thousands of individuals that the reapers were killing everyday), would have been just a touching and valid ending as one where he gives his life again at the very end of the story.

[SpamBot2000]

Xellith wrote...

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

Er, IT?

[Xellith]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

Er, IT?

 Prolly not.  Prolly an update with some patch files regarding Omega.  Wouldnt get hopes up.

Modifié par Xellith, 02 octobre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Ozida]

Xellith wrote...

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

Have to say this: I hate Twitter. Although, my hopes are not high. Unless they fix the damn journal system...

[jakal66]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

Chardonney wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

You seemed to have missed the memo. Sacrifice is deep and the only way a journey can be meaningful.

Well, I definitely have to disagree. I think it's a grim point of view to see death as the only thing that can give a meaning. I see live and triumph give a meaning to the end of a journey and to the hardships endured; to actually survive when there seemed to be no light at the end of tunnel, against incredible odds.

Yeah I agree with Chardonney. Sure there are times when death can be a beautiful sacrifice, especially death in the form of sacrificing oneself for others, but it's by no means the only way to sacrifice and it doesn't invalidate or lessen other types of sacrifice. Having Shepard survive after all the other forms of sacrifice he's gone through (including actually dying once himself (ME2), among other things like sacrificing his squadmates and the thousands of individuals that the reapers were killing everyday), would have been just a touching and valid ending as one where he gives his life again at the very end of the story.

This 100% agreed...why they went with that concept id just beyond imagination.Really? Killing him in the 3 options? Really? This was the mastermind plan? REALLY? well at least if you kill him give him an honorable death not that rubble poor excuse of an ending...100% lack of determination from the whole team.

PS I don't hate the andings after ec...I mean I don't hate Control nor Synth... but I hate destroy with high EMS....I just hate that weak scene...the more I think about it the worse it gets

Modifié par jakal66, 02 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Xellith]

The thing is - not having an option to "legitimately survive" takes away the aspect of a "sacrifice". There is no sacrifice if you have no other option. Thats like saying "there are three doors. Past each door is a fire. You have to protect this marble and get it to the other side. You will die of your injuries by the time you get to the other side of the flames. There is no other way out of the room. If you fail then I kill all kittens everywhere".

Sacrifice where? The only way out of the room is through one of the doors thats on fire. If there was a "emergency exit" then sure - those 3 options would be a sacrifice. But there isnt.

This is why the ending to ME3 fails when anyone even considers it to be a "sacrifice". If anything you are just sacrificing pros/cons of each ending against each other. Big whoop.

[MegaSovereign]

Xellith wrote...

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

Probably a patch setting us up for Omega.

For PS3 I guess it'll be a patch that enables ME1 cameos.

[hiraeth]

Xellith wrote...

The thing is - not having an option to "legitimately survive" takes away the aspect of a "sacrifice". There is no sacrifice if you have no other option. Thats like saying "there are three doors. Past each door is a fire. You have to protect this marble and get it to the other side. You will die of your injuries by the time you get to the other side of the flames. There is no other way out of the room. If you fail then I kill all kittens everywhere".

Sacrifice where? The only way out of the room is through one of the doors thats on fire. If there was a "emergency exit" then sure - those 3 options would be a sacrifice. But there isnt.

This is why the ending to ME3 fails when anyone even considers it to be a "sacrifice". If anything you are just sacrificing pros/cons of each ending against each other. Big whoop.

That's actually a really interesting point- When I was going through the ending for the first time and I was presented with my choices, I found myself being like "Uhh, OK which of these does the least amount of long-term damage to the galaxy" and it sort of turned into the "ruthless calculus of war" that Garrus was talking about earlier and that (my) Shepard opposed as a way of thinking about fighting the reapers. It didn't feel like a meaningful, personal sacrifice like ME1 and ME2 finales, it didn't feel as though *I* was making a sacrifice, but rather I was picking which pre-selected sacrifice before me would apply to the galaxy. I think that finale worked well within DE:HR because the game essentially presented you with a world that was largely based on augmentation vs. no augmentation, but Mass Effect was more nuanced and diverse in the themes that it touches on and the context in which the story is told (i.e., not only Shepard but his squadmates mean a lot to the player, unlike DE:HR). The three choices really cheapened the experience for me at the end and didn't make me feel like *I* actually sacrificed anything.

[CaIIisto]

I can't get my hopes up re the patch - just have to see what the dataminers come up with, but I suspect it'll be much about nothing.

Re the issue of sacrifice - once again, I have no problem with the issue, and I have no problem with that being at least one of the endings, but they didn't do it in a way that I found particularly interesting. Lay out the choices, not all of which should include having to kill yourself, outline the pros and cons, and then leave it up to the player. Empower the player to make that sacrifice, don't force it on them. I would have found it far more powerful had I chosen to die, knowing that I could have lived, to save someone else. As it is, I didn't feel that at all.

[darkway1]

Bester76 wrote...

I can't get my hopes up re the patch - just have to see what the dataminers come up with, but I suspect it'll be much about nothing.

Re the issue of sacrifice - once again, I have no problem with the issue, and I have no problem with that being at least one of the endings, but they didn't do it in a way that I found particularly interesting. Lay out the choices, not all of which should include having to kill yourself, outline the pros and cons, and then leave it up to the player. Empower the player to make that sacrifice, don't force it on them. I would have found it far more powerful had I chosen to die, knowing that I could have lived, to save someone else. As it is, I didn't feel that at all.

Yes I agree,I always play as a Paragon,so I usually pick to sacrifice my self for the greater good.......but with out any option to choose to live,sacrifice means nothing,it just feels like a raw deal at the end............sure you get to save the entire universe.....but I can't relate to that....it's not personal enough to have an impact.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xellith wrote...

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/252834155732299776

Speculation from everyone!

Probably a patch setting us up for Omega.

For PS3 I guess it'll be a patch that enables ME1 cameos.

Most likely.  And unless it's something to pave the way for postgame DLC, not interested anyway.

Certainly too much to expect the minor changes to the breath scene to confirm life too 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

You guys can have your grimdark "shepard dies" ending all you want. After the EC, I am hell bent on having shepard survive the destroy ending, even with space magic.

Sue me.

[Xellith]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

You guys can have your grimdark "shepard dies" ending all you want. After the EC, I am hell bent on having shepard survive the destroy ending, even with space magic.

Sue me.

shh! wanna get sued!

But srsly. Apparantly its Biowares stance to say "he survived if you headcannon he did.  It's a valid interpretation"

So go ahead.  He survived.

Modifié par Xellith, 03 octobre 2012 - 12:27 .